Who Parked The Moon?

[DrEvil]

^^Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's no "mind", only that I don't think it comes from "somewhere else".

Apropos jumping spiders. Made me think of this: Jumping Frenchmen of Maine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_Frenchmen_of_Maine

Now back to topic. Kinda:

Just watched a pretty good fake documentary about the moon - Lunopolis. Don't want to spoil anything, but the plot could have been written by David Icke.

[Ben D]

Ok...so let's examine the Moon Hoax Radiation Belt dangers to human space flight, and see if they prevent the safe journey of manned spaceflight off the planet!

Think of the art of walking on hot charcoal beds....or passing your hand over a cigarette lighter flame...so long as you don't linger, you will not be burnt....yes? So in the same way, while it is true that the Earth's radiation belts would be deadly to a human body if it was exposed to it over a long time, a brief time exposure is still safe.

So here are some salient facts wrt the Apollo spacecraft travelling at 25,000 kmh traversing the Earth' radiation belts...

There are five main regions that compose the radiation belt....and the highest radiation level is found at the equatorial region which poses a hazard of 180 Rads per hour. so the Apollo spacecraft was programmed to traverse the northern polar regions to totally avoid this region.

And these are the periods and radiation levels of the other four radiation belt regions which the Apollo spacecraft actually traversed...

27.6 minutes at 0.0001 Rads/sec) = 0.17 Rads
6.1 minutes at 0.005 rads/sec = 1.83 Rads
15.3 minutes at 0.01 rads/sec= 9.18 Rads
3.8 minutes at 0.001 rads/sec = 0.23 Rads

So the total radiation dosage is 11.4 Rads.

The US Occupation Safety and Health Agency (OSHA) puts a lethal radiation dosage as 300 Rads in one hour.

Now the 11.4 Rads is that which an astronaut would be exposed to if outside the spacecraft, so the radiation shielding inside the spacecraft cuts it down so that it is completely harmless. In fact he Apollo astronauts carried radiation dosimeters, and the total dosage for the entire trip to the moon and return was not more than 2 Rads over 6 days.

Reference...http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/Algebra1/3Page7.pdf

So if posters have any doubts about the scientific validity of this information, please provide a credible refutation addressing the relevant point...

[Iamwhomiam]

Not looking to engage in an argument with you, Ben, but the orbiter, all of them, transversed the "hot zone" repeatedly every orbit as it crossed back and forth across the equator from northern hemisphere to southern and back again. Every orbit was mapped and supposedly we could watch its progress in real time. Crossing the hot zones was inevitable.

Honestly, do you think people would be as protected from solar radiation or the red planet's own Van Allen Belts better than they would be on the Moon?

What about those many long endurance flights? Some lasted longer than a year in orbit. (14 mo.)

Cumulatively, Ployakov spent 22 months in orbit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records

It simply makes no sense at all to me that we do not return to the Moon.

The Van Allen Belt radiation is indeed dangerous, but not a good reason not to once again subject our astronauts to its danger on their way to and from the Moon.

But maybe's that's because we've been up there for years reverse engineering found technologies. Or perhaps we have been warned not to return.

Besides, the Moon is not within the reach of the Van Allen Radiation Belts. At most they only extend 7 Earth diameters from its center.

[Ben D]

^ Iam, Apollo are the only manned spaceflights that went through the radiation belts. The radiation belts extend from about 1,000 Km to 60,000 Km above the surface of the Earth and all other manned space flights have taken place below 1,000 Km, so forget about all those long endurance flights, they are not relevant.

Now the orbit of the Moon lies along the fastest line-of-travel from Earth, so all lunar destined space flights will traverse the radiation belts like that shown in the reference page diagram I linked to....a flight that takes about 53 minutes. There is no orbiting of the Earth involved through the main radiation belt.

So with this strategy of avoiding the highest radiation equatorial region and going straight through the belt on an orbit to the moon, along with adequate space craft radiation shielding, the astronauts are in no danger...a total of 2 Rads is all to be expected on a trip to the moon and return to Earth.

The moon has no radiation field and Mars has a very weak one that would not pose a problem. There is of course the problem with exposure to cosmic rays on long endurance flights such as to Mars, but that is a different subject.

Re ET support...I am sure the entry of planet Earth's entry into the space age is being both monitored and guided by entities higher up the Cosmic chain...couldn't be any other way.

[Iamwhomiam]

Yes, Ben, that's the correct location of the belts. But it seems you feel the primary danger arises from only the radiation in the belts, but while in space exposure is quite near constant though not as concentrated.

And had you read as carefully, you would have noted this I excerpt in part:

"...fluxes of energetic electrons can drop to the low interplanetary levels within about 100 km (62 mi), a decrease by a factor of 1,000."

The belts are held in place by Earth's magnetosphere and are as variable as its fluctuation, and have a much higher concentration of high energy electrons than elsewhere in space.

While I agree the danger from exposure to high energy particles present in the belts is great, I doubt the brief periods spent passing through them while traveling to and from the Moon, could possibly exceed that faced in a years long transit to Mars.

But I think you agree that there is no sound reason yet stated for our not returning to the Moon. Travel to Mars for sundry reasons must be much riskier.

The probes data study should be wrapped-up by now. Launched in 2012, it was a two-year mission. I'd like to see the results.

[Ben D]

Yes my friend Iam, I take note of your points. I agree there is no sound reason yet stated for our not returning to the Moon...nor for that matter for not planning for a Mars mission. I understand that plans for the former are well under way by NASA, probably will happen around 2020 to 25, and this time a permanent presence, and on the drawing boards for the latter, but the political wrangling over priorities is what is holding things up...there is not enough in the budget to do all things being asked of it. But this will change as I'm sure the US government will not want to sit back while its citizens watch video of the Chinese and/or Russians setting up their permanent bases on the moon first.

[BrandonD]

I'm simply leaving the possibility on the table, something that conventional society as well as "serious conspiracy people" find highly objectionable. Does this mean that I've been swallowed up by the "hoax reality"?

Imo.....yes...

Do you have first-hand empirical knowledge that supports your dogmatic position on this subject?

Anyone possessing a dogmatic position on a subject, but lacking the first-hand empirical evidence to back it up, is operating on cultural conditioning and persuasion. IMO.

I acknowledge my lack of first-hand evidence, and therefore allow for multiple possibilities. Which of us has been swallowed by an artificial reality?

[Ben D]

Do you have first-hand empirical knowledge that supports your dogmatic position on this subject?

Anyone possessing a dogmatic position on a subject, but lacking the first-hand empirical evidence to back it up, is operating on cultural conditioning and persuasion. IMO.

I acknowledge my lack of first-hand evidence, and therefore allow for multiple possibilities. Which of us has been swallowed by an artificial reality?

As you have read from my previous posts, my own small contribution to, and knowledge of, the Apollo lunar mission operations means that I'm not basing my knowledge on some 'artificial reality', and therefore it is not a dogmatic position as you claim. It follows it would seem, you also think that the 420,000 NASA employees including all the astronauts likewise are coming from a dogmatic position and are swallowed up by some artificial reality.

I say it as I know it to be from my first hand technical experience and understanding BrandonD, as the hundreds of thousands of other specialized technical staff do from their relevant disciplines and positions during the 1960s of the Apollo Program....but no worries, you are welcome to believe whatever you want....so let's leave it at that!

[82_28]

When I was a little kid (like first gradeish) I built this whole "spaceship" in my back yard. I spent days, maybe weeks, on it. I even had a recording on a cassette recorder of blasting off sounds that I think I recorded with my own mouth. I got all the neighbor kids gathered and put them in their places about the craft. I remember thinking that we were totally going to space in this thing. I didn't do it to fuck with their heads. I did it because I believed it. Of course, all in my imagination -- but I didn't know that. I thought what I was doing was real.

Soon most of the kids I promised I would take them to space that day saw through the bullshit and told me as such. I was bummed and I tore it down. I once convinced cars to pull over on my street by creating a roadblock that people actually believed and would pull over. Today, I'd be dead. Back then it was what it was.

[Ben D]

^ Haha... that's interesting my ET friend, I, as a kid in the 1940s growing up, imagined I was from another planet and visiting here to do good v evil battle...we had an old car in the back yard that was my spaceship and I would often go there to do starship stuff.

[Iamwhomiam]

Wow, 82, your first line refreshed some dusty memories!. When Spaceland opened in an old hanger that had been part of historic Roosevelt Field in 1958 I was 9 years old, soon to turn 10. I have another personal connection with Roosevelt Field I'll share another time, though I briefly mentioned it long ago and have shared it with only one RI member.

It was great fun. Even though the spaceship ride was pretty lame, (hydraulics up to "launch" position, and bumpy bump awhile and back down.) It was pretty disappointing, but I rode it as often as allowed.

More about Spaceland here.

After it closed, in the late 60s NYC disc jockey Murray Kaufman aka Murray the K established there Murray The K's World, the largest indoor venue I've ever had the pleasure of enjoying, sorta.

Thanks for the pleasant memories.

G'nite. I gottta go now.

[82_28]

Wow, 82, your first line refreshed some dusty memories!. When Spaceland opened in an old hanger that had been part of historic Roosevelt Field in 1958 I was 9 years old, soon to turn 10. I have another personal connection with Roosevelt Field I'll share another time, though I briefly mentioned it long ago and have shared it with only one RI member.

It was great fun. Even though the spaceship ride was pretty lame, (hydraulics up to "launch" position, and bumpy bump awhile and back down.) It was pretty disappointing, but I rode it as often as allowed.

More about Spaceland here.

After it closed, in the late 60s NYC disc jockey Murray Kaufman aka Murray the K established there Murray The K's World, the largest indoor venue I've ever had the pleasure of enjoying, sorta.

Thanks for the pleasant memories.

G'nite. I gottta go now.

Ah yes! Up thread I mentioned a ride at disneyland that convinced me I'd actually been to space and couldn't come up with it. Your comment jogged my memory, iam. This is the ride.

The show was originally named Rocket to the Moon and it opened in 1955 along with Disneyland. The ride was refurbished as Flight to the Moon in 1967. On March 21, 1975, the destination was changed to Mars because humans had already been to the Moon.[1] During that time, the attraction was considerably dated.

The show was initially sponsored by McDonnell-Douglas. After sponsorship ended, logos referring to the company were removed from the attraction, but the outline of the stylized tail fin in the McDonnell-Douglas logo still remains part of the former building's facade.
Show

The show was designed in cooperation with NASA and was basically a revised and updated version of the previous attraction Flight to the Moon. Guests would now be launched on a spacecraft into space and then approach the surface of the red planet Mars.

Guests would first enter a viewing area known as Mission Control, which was modeled after a typical mission control center with chairs and control panels for about ten seated Audio-Animatronic "technicians" whose backs were to the audience as they moved their heads and arms. Facing the audience was the Audio-Animatronic flight director Mr. Johnson. He would then talk and show film clips to explain how humans had made numerous advances in space travel and manufacturing in microgravity, and also learned how to deal with the effects of space. The lecture was interrupted once per show by an intruder alarm caused by a large bird crash-landing near the spacecraft launch pad.

After the pre-show, guests would move on and finally board their spacecraft. Inside was a circular theater with stadium-like seating with circular flat screens on the ceiling and floor. During the mission, guests could look at the views from outside the spacecraft from either of these screens. There were also side screens that showed film clips or graphics. "Third Officer Collins" was the tour guide, and discussed the mission as the spacecraft explored space and Mars. Eventually, the ship was damaged, possibly by a volcanic eruption, and the ship had to quickly head back to Earth. The seats in the attraction would simulate the vibrations and G-forces from "Hyper-space" during take-offs and landings by filling up with compressed air. Finally, the spacecraft landed safely back on Earth and Officer Collins would then urge guests to return and visit again. As he explained, "there's a lot more to see on Mars".

Holy shit did that shit convince me. I think I even argued with my family that I thought it was real.

The attraction closed at Disneyland on November 2, 1992, having first been removed from most visitor documentation by 1991. One reason behind the closure was that the controversial attraction ExtraTERRORestrial Alien Encounter was to open in the building as part of CEO Michael Eisner's ambitious "Disney Decade". Along with Alien Encounter, The Timekeeper and "Plectu's Fantastic Galactic Revue" would have opened in the radical and richly-detailed "Tomorrowland 2055" concept.

However, the "Tomorrowland 2055" project was cancelled in early 1993 when the Disneyland Paris project suddenly found itself in almost a billion dollars' debt. Michael Eisner started cutting costs around the company, and was not happy with the estimated cost of the Tomorrowland project, though he had liked the idea. Start of construction on Disneyland's New Tomorrowland was changed from Fall 1994 to Spring 1997, but Alien Encounter, The Timekeeper, and Plectu's Fantastic Galactic Revue never opened. The building remained unused until it officially reopened as a restaurant, Redd Rockett's Pizza Port in Disneyland's New Tomorrowland on May 22, 1998

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_to ... raction%29

[NeonLX]

I was a weird little kid. Nothing has really changed over the decades except I'm not so little. Anyway, I wrote this story in second grade entitled "My Return to Mars". Not "My Trip to Mars", but "My RETURN to Mars".

My older brother says that it caused quite a stir with my teacher. She called my parents and was really spooked, apparently. My mom shrugged it off and said, "Nah, that's just my odd kid".

The story was quite detailed and even went into how the propulsion system of the spacecraft worked. I can remember spending a whole lot of very focused time writing it. That's strange for me, because I was the poster child for ADD at that age.

[BrandonD]

I say it as I know it to be from my first hand technical experience and understanding BrandonD, as the hundreds of thousands of other specialized technical staff do from their relevant disciplines and positions during the 1960s of the Apollo Program....but no worries, you are welcome to believe whatever you want....so let's leave it at that!

My apologies for the antagonistic tone, our opinions on this subject won't make the mail arrive any sooner tomorrow.

[Ben D]

Thank you for your graciousness BrandonD...

...moving on....

http://www.moondaily.com/reports/Russia_to_take_Moon_exploration_as_core_of_space_program_999.html

Russia to take Moon exploration as core of space program

by Staff Writers Moscow (XNA) Oct 14, 2014

Russia will take the Moon exploration as a core of its space program for the next decade, Federal Space Agency Roscosmos said Friday.

"This year Roscosmos has prepared a long-term program of deep space exploration, with exploration of the Moon as the core," the agency's official Yuri Makarov said.

According to the Roscosmos official website, the new program is also aimed at exploring other planets in the Solar System.

The program envisages building infrastructure of the permanent lunar settlements near the Moon's south Pole, along with explorations using unmanned vehicles.

Russian space industry is capable to solve technological problems met in the ambitious program, the Interfax news agency quoted Makarov as saying.

Roscosmos forecasts the first Russian manned expedition to the Moon could be sent in late 2020s. Once conducted successfully, it would be the first manned mission to the Moon after a break of more than 40 years following the U.S. Apollo program.

Before the manned expedition, three automatic missions, namely Luna-25, -26 and -27, are expected to be fulfilled.

The last lunar mission, Luna-24, was undertaken by the Soviet Union in August 1976, which proved presence of water in samples brought back from the Moon.

Luna-24 was also the last spacecraft that landed on the moon until the arrival of the Chinese Chang'e-3 in December 2013.