David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

[Searcher08]

To follow up on Alice Walker/Icke post which was posted earlier. I think this blog post from Alice Walker herself lends credence to my belief that Icke's method, a dangerous method I think, finds the sweet spot in left of center politics and spirituality by creating a justifiable minority to hate, because it spares the person from the process of dehumanizing a minority by delivering a "unhuman" minority as a target immediately. That is the rabbit trick Icke pulls with progressive peoples minds.

I dont buy that there ever exists a justifiable minority to hate.
And I have never seen Icke encourage hatred.

As regards finding 'a sweet spot in left of centre politics and spirituality' that is ironic when people on this board have been accused of IIRC of passing on Ickes 'far right tropes'!!

I also reject the label of conspiritualism per se as from the same stable as 'WOO' and 'Tw00fer' - it comes from a paper that cant tell the difference between John bleedin' Perkins and Kerry bleedin' Cassidy, written by a bleedin' CSICOP Skeptical Enquirer author, innit.

[Canadian_watcher]

To follow up on Alice Walker/Icke post which was posted earlier. I think this blog post from Alice Walker herself lends credence to my belief that Icke's method, a dangerous method I think, finds the sweet spot in left of center politics and spirituality by creating a justifiable minority to hate, because it spares the person from the process of dehumanizing a minority by delivering a "unhuman" minority as a target immediately. That is the rabbit trick Icke pulls with progressive peoples minds.

I dont buy that there ever exists a justifiable minority to hate.
And I have never seen Icke encourage hatred.

As regards finding 'a sweet spot in left of centre politics and spirituality' that is ironic when people on this board have been accused of IIRC of passing on Ickes 'far right tropes'!!

I also reject the label of conspiritualism per se as from the same stable as 'WOO' and 'Tw00fer' - it comes from a paper that cant tell the difference between John bleedin' Perkins and Kerry bleedin' Cassidy, written by a bleedin' CSICOP Skeptical Enquirer author, innit.

agreed with all of the above.

[brekin]

brekin wrote:
From what I recall PW just said something like she didn't care for Icke because he muddies the water with other issues she cares about and something about keeping a cool head. Was AD suppose to shut down the thread at that point?

seemslikeadream wrote:

He knew in advance PW thoughts on Icke...and in the past she said her problem was with abuse and Icke. HE FRICKING KNOWS THIS

She's not offended. If she doesn't care, why do you?

PW wrote:

Slad, I'm not offended, I never said I was offended. In fact, AD and I share many of the same opinions about Icke for many of the same reasons, that was part of why I posted what I posted.
My sole point, again, was to encourage patience and understanding among posters in this discussion. That is all.

brekin wrote:
I mean if you don't care about Icke why do you care about others discussing Icke? If you don't want to be associated with Icke why do you keep shouting about him? You aren't imprisoned in this thread you know

seemslikeadream wrote:

I never said I did not want to be associated with Icke....I said I didn't want to be labeled anti-semite because I don't agree with AD oh yea I know that for sure even though some people want me to stop posting I know damn well I am not a prisoner here

Has anyone labeled you a anti-semite? One of the biggest points of contention is whether Icke's imagery is intentionally or unintentionally anti-semitic, not whether you are. My guess is we would all assume you are not as a default. This thread is really not about you. It is about Icke. (Well it originally was.)And I have to say I think you have made yourself a prisoner here, and with your constant banging on the bars it is distracting from the content of the thread. You don't need to defend yourself (or others) in this thread because it is not about you. Perhaps the "Here Comes The Reptiles" thread triggered additional considerations that prompted this thread but so what? You weren't even discussing Icke there initially and hence this thread was created now that has nothing to do with you. If you want to provide content about the thread topic thats great, but why spend so much time debating the creation of the thread in relation to you? To reiterate, its not about you, but Icke.

[brekin]

brekin wrote:To follow up on Alice Walker/Icke post which was posted earlier. I think this blog post from Alice Walker herself lends credence to my belief that Icke's method, a dangerous method I think, finds the sweet spot in left of center politics and spirituality by creating a justifiable minority to hate, because it spares the person from the process of dehumanizing a minority by delivering a "unhuman" minority as a target immediately. That is the rabbit trick Icke pulls with progressive peoples minds.

searcher08 wrote:

I dont buy that there ever exists a justifiable minority to hate.
And I have never seen Icke encourage hatred.

Really? There never exists a justifiable minority to hate? Please. So you don't think the minorities of rapists, child murderers, acid throwing assholes, etc aren't minorities justifying hatred?

And what is Icke encouraging humankind to do against our giant lizard Illumanati overlords who have imprisoned are planet for eons? We should love them? Write emails to our congressman demanding talks with them? If he has made them responsible for everything we hate that is wrong with the world, then we hate them. Pretty simple logic.

As regards finding 'a sweet spot in left of centre politics and spirituality' that is ironic when people on this board have been accused of IIRC of passing on Ickes 'far right tropes'!! I also reject the label of conspiritualism per se as from the same stable as 'WOO' and 'Tw00fer' - it comes from a paper that cant tell the difference between John bleedin' Perkins and Kerry bleedin' Cassidy, written by a bleedin' CSICOP Skeptical Enquirer author, innit.

You go far enough left and you end up on the far right and vice versa. It's not a ruler but a ring. And fanaticism is where the twain shall meet. The label Conspiritualism is so hard to accept, because it is so painfully true.

[Searcher08]

Surely It isnt just about Icke, it is also about his characterisation.

My take is that one set of people seem to be able to see this and the other do not.

One thing I find baffling is why on an ostensibly progressive / libertarian board, posting material from the same Skeptic stable that (IIRC) actually legally threatened Jeff Wells, but hey, they did an academic paper!
And a video from a Republican who subs The Feds (yes THOSE feds) on Youtube and uploads anti-Choice propaganda, with a manipulative music that says Icke is mind manipulating?? Now I dont find that Repubs tend to have a very well developed sense of irony on the whole, for me the irony of accusing Icke of 'thought altering behaviour similar to cults' while your soundtrack sounds like something from The Outer Limits just induces hilarity in me.

[Canadian_watcher]

searcher08 wrote:

I dont buy that there ever exists a justifiable minority to hate.
And I have never seen Icke encourage hatred.

Really? There never exists a justifiable minority to hate? Please. So you don't think the minorities of rapists, child murderers, acid throwing assholes, etc aren't minorities justifying hatred?

yes, that's pretty much what I was getting at in my last post to you, brekin. And I think that that is the minority that Icke is going after, and he's making the argument that our current system rewards individuals who embody the very characteristics that most of us find repulsive.

I think many people wonder at this: how can it be that the leaders of the world - the richest of the rich - the ones who escape justice - are actually the worst sorts of people (by and large)?? And why would they ruin earth's environment if they, too, have to live here?

One begins to think that it can't be possible that we and they are the same species. it is evolutionary? is it off-world influence? is it demonic? I don't know, but from where I sit something deep is amiss, and since I am not one to ignore hidden history, alternative science, non-mainstream news, mythology, etc I am finding that there may have been something that happened in our past that explains why humanity is divided the way it is. Not all of the 'out there' ideas can be simply brushed aside without honest, clear headed review.

[Searcher08]

brekin wrote:To follow up on Alice Walker/Icke post which was posted earlier. I think this blog post from Alice Walker herself lends credence to my belief that Icke's method, a dangerous method I think, finds the sweet spot in left of center politics and spirituality by creating a justifiable minority to hate, because it spares the person from the process of dehumanizing a minority by delivering a "unhuman" minority as a target immediately. That is the rabbit trick Icke pulls with progressive peoples minds.

searcher08 wrote:

I dont buy that there ever exists a justifiable minority to hate.
And I have never seen Icke encourage hatred.

Really? There never exists a justifiable minority to hate? Please. So you don't think the minorities of rapists, child murderers, acid throwing assholes, etc aren't minorities justifying hatred?

Well I have seen a truckload of hatred upclose and personal growing up and expereinced some deeply unpleasent stuff. For me, hatred is a ultimately a cop out. It is really indulgent.



And what is Icke encouraging humankind to do against our giant lizard Illumanati overlords who have imprisoned are planet for eons? We should love them? Write emails to our congressman demanding talks with them? If he has made them responsible for everything we hate that is wrong with the world, then we hate them. Pretty simple logic.

In Ickes world, I think he is suggesting that people have more choice than the status quo. If brekin has handcuffed searcher, why would he have to make brekin an object of hate? Maybe searcher is focused on chain-removal, not brekin hatin

As regards finding 'a sweet spot in left of centre politics and spirituality' that is ironic when people on this board have been accused of IIRC of passing on Ickes 'far right tropes'!! I also reject the label of conspiritualism per se as from the same stable as 'WOO' and 'Tw00fer' - it comes from a paper that cant tell the difference between John bleedin' Perkins and Kerry bleedin' Cassidy, written by a bleedin' CSICOP Skeptical Enquirer author, innit.

You go far enough left and you end up on the far right and vice versa. It's not a ruler but a ring. And fanaticism is where the twain shall meet. The label Conspiritualism is so hard to accept, because it is so painfully true.

My own topology is more 2x2 matrix like, so I dont perceive far right and left having much in common in this context.
I prefer Jerky's term Paraculture. It is more value neutral and also more accurate, wheres the other term sounds is from David Aaronovitch's brand of anti-deep politics, nothing to see here, orthodoxy-maintaining neo-liberal bollocks.

[Wombaticus Rex]

I also think the source material for this thread was pretty terrible shit, but that got overshadowed more or less immediately by interpersonal conflict.

There's a lesson in there, or something.

Personally, I find James Randi a lot more offensive than David Icke, by a broad margin.

I also think the "Conspirituality" material was a goldmine of a find and an important touchstone for the whole conversation. I know I am definitely guilty of it, just like I'm definitely guilty of having a brain full of questionable sources and concepts that I lack the time and space to question. Generally only happy accidents of fate bring it to the surface enough for me to even notice.

[worldsastage]

I dont buy that there ever exists a justifiable minority to hate.
And I have never seen Icke encourage hatred.

As regards finding 'a sweet spot in left of centre politics and spirituality' that is ironic when people on this board have been accused of IIRC of passing on Ickes 'far right tropes'!!

I also reject the label of conspiritualism per se as from the same stable as 'WOO' and 'Tw00fer' - it comes from a paper that cant tell the difference between John bleedin' Perkins and Kerry bleedin' Cassidy, written by a bleedin' CSICOP Skeptical Enquirer author, innit.

hear hear!
I don't like the term either but I do think for some the marriage of conspiracy culture and spiritualism as a goal is real. I've never seen Icke encourage hatred either. In fact for a friend who passed away this year, Icke's forum was where he felt most able to do something about big name pedophiles like Jimmy Savile. Throughout his activism on Icke's forum he also had issues with some of Icke's methods but was able to work with his following to do something useful. So, it is not so cut and dried. I still find it hard to take the like's of Icke seriously.

Amongst various groups of conspiritualist, again for lack of a better term for now, you might find someone like a Kerry Cassidy, for example. For others it is not about conspiritualism but conspiritainment or those who use the crossing of the two to feed their greed, narcissism, delusions etc (JZ knight anyone?). There are also hard core skeptics who can never learn and makes things worse because they think they know what there is to know already. Then there are others who are genuinely interested in learning all about human culture; a subset of which might be called as someone else here put it, paraculturalists because they don't automatically reject a notion or idea just because it is not mainstream. Among paraculturalist you would find discussions of conspiracies, spirituality, mainstream and alternative science, history among other topics. There are disagreements and agreements that are accepted as part of the process when one tries to understand what the heck is this all about. Being able to distinguish between what is what and applying what is learned in a manner that is minimizes harm if not maximally helpful and life affirming is the goal, no?. I agree that using terms like conspiritualism, conspiritainment etc brings out the us and them mentality which can do harm. It's all us, but how do you acknowledge that as well as acknowledge and discuss the clear differences between the components of the great US? Some of us are drawn more to the conspiracy side, others on the spiritual side and yet others drawn to a combination of both or none of the above. Most of us here are just trying to figure out our world and our purpose and place in it. I think we are right to critically examine and reject those aspects that do cause harm.

[brekin]

searcher08 wrote:
I dont buy that there ever exists a justifiable minority to hate.
And I have never seen Icke encourage hatred.

brekin wrote:
Really? There never exists a justifiable minority to hate? Please. So you don't think the minorities of rapists, child murderers, acid throwing assholes, etc aren't minorities justifying hatred?

CW wrote:

yes, that's pretty much what I was getting at in my last post to you, brekin. And I think that that is the minority that Icke is going after, and he's making the argument that our current system rewards individuals who embody the very characteristics that most of us find repulsive.

I think many people wonder at this: how can it be that the leaders of the world - the richest of the rich - the ones who escape justice - are actually the worst sorts of people (by and large)?? And why would they ruin earth's environment if they, too, have to live here?

One begins to think that it can't be possible that we and they are the same species. it is evolutionary? is it off-world influence? is it demonic? I don't know, but from where I sit something deep is amiss, and since I am not one to ignore hidden history, alternative science, non-mainstream news, mythology, etc I am finding that there may have been something that happened in our past that explains why humanity is divided the way it is. Not all of the 'out there' ideas can be simply brushed aside without honest, clear headed review.

I think that is why grand fantastical narratives win out over the truth. Because the methods and the people doing horrible things seem so inhuman, so diabolical, that it is comforting and liberating when someone comes along and says "It is the inhuman demons responsible for all this." When the scarier reality, the horror, is that it is humans just like you and me responsible for all this. In fact, Icke is embodying the very repulsive minority he describes. He is targeting many people, who lets face it are human, and saying they are not human but evil reptiles who drink human blood, subjugate the human race, cause wars, perversions,etc The worse thing you can do to a person is deny their humanity. And he is doing this by lineage. How would you like to be some distant poor country cousin of the reptilian illumanti right now? Wake up and find your on the list as one of the reptilian half breeds? Having Alice Walker shout Chiatru! (reptile overlord I guess) at you when your on the telly?

The sad fact is many of the rich are incompetent and probably at the mercy of their advisors and employees who make many of their decisions. All the crimes the uber elite commit aren't anything that doesn't happen daily in trailer parks, jungle villages, and suburban homes. The large scale horrors of war, famine, exploitation we are all responsible for to some degree because we've disengaged from the political process. Many of those who rail against the powerful wish to be powerful themselves and no doubt would commit the same or worse mistakes, and crimes, given the chance. The little exposure I have had to rich and powerful people has made me amazed at how dogmatic, shallow and one dimensional they are. Honestly, them being crypto-lizards would make them more interesting. And really the sad fact is nature has tended to reward characteristics that we find repulsive. Humanities denial of and repression of its animal origins and tendencies make us project and displace them. Instead of dealing with that individually we love it when some comes along and says your all angel and their all dragon. If they can do so we don't feel any guilt or shame (but there not even human!) all the better.

Should we not hold the uber-elite accountable? Of course we should. But saying they are a evil giant lizard race will just get you dismissed as a crackpot and tarnish any deep politics analysis or proof related to actual conditions at hand. I try and keep an open mind about things. But you don't get to stay there unless you can earn your keep. I met Icke at the door and didn't buy what he is selling.

[Sounder]

excellent telling of the 'core problem with Icke' story brekin.

Thank-you very much.

Separate issue and maybe only a point on style. It's not good to call people 'madmen' all willy nilly. Or maybe it is similar in that folk are being still being dehumanized

There are plenty of others that are just as mad, clinically speaking, but it would be best for all involved to not have a thread title, like Oh for instance; Dali Lama: Methods of a madmen.

(Little joke)

[DrEvil]

After seeing this I'm suddenly not so sure anymore



From this story.
http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/06 ... rnational/

@C_w: Thanks for the reply. I think we're actually on the same wavelength here, only coming at it from slightly (very) different angles. So, yay!

[Sounder]

Hey, ya know, you're kind of a funny looking guy too.

Just sayin

[compared2what?]

Earlier this year, Walker wrote a post on her personal blog entitled “Human Race Get Off Your Knees: I couldn’t have put it better myself.”

Somewhat off-topic, but The Color Purple is a misandrist book, imo. Found out recently it was being taught in high school English classes, and was horrified.

[Searcher08]

The Procyon 3 Daily
The Thaag Report

Your Representative Thaag has been in contact with academic and commerce oriented humanoids from Sol 3 helping to setup their first primitive electronics-based (!) planetary communication system
Under Galactic Protocol 7, I am permitted some limited knowledge transfer, but only to repond to questions of my non Sol3 origin when asked. So far, no one has asked.
The difficulties of the role are primarily linked to maintaining a straight face as these humanoids have decided they will be setting out to bring the benefits of their 'global culture' to the rest of the Galaxy. Sol 3 world culture at this time is perhaps best described as a callous self-serving brawl with some relief by creative elements. A special mention must be made of our Feline assistants, whose work in infiltrating humour and delight neuronal patterns into the planetary communication network has been outstanding.
I am authorised to provide knowledge transfer up to a Level 4 myeciliumic distributed quantum micro-tubule Heart neuro-photonic telepathic network, but interest in these matters is seen as a sign of neuronal dysfunction at present and results in cultural sanctions.
My physical appearence is reverting to my Procyon form as expected and I have been subjected to light brawling (generally telepathic but easily read) that my head resembles the ovum container of a small SOl 3 avian, locally called a 'chicken'. I prefer this to the appellation Mr PointyHead, which is not mathematically accurate.
I must also light confess that I have been doing light Acoustic Resonace chanting as recreation; the resulting loud sounds heard around the planet were interpreted as a sign of the extinction of Sol rather than an invitation to play, so I have ceased these for now.

lovelightlearningjoy yours Thaarg Sol 3