The Rise of Bigot America Thread

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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:44 am

thanks

mentalgongfu2 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:05 am wrote:Morty disturbingly said:

This looks like a big "let's you and him fight" scenario to me. And the participants are all up for it, big time, so what at the end of the day is there to complain about? Antifa wanted to kick some Nazi heads. Flag waving Nazis wanted to spend a day out from under their rocks and wave their flags. A good time was had by all. Who would begrudge them that??

This all came about because of plans to remove a Robert E. Lee statue. That's a provocation, and the immediate response to the outcome of the protest was for a mayor of some other town to announce the removal of another statue. That's another provocation. The left sits at home and grumbles when their economic status receives a kick in the teeth, time after time after time...but give them a chance to larp a virtue signal and they're out on the streets with bells on.


I can allow that nazi scum felt provoked aka "triggered" by the removal of a historical symbol of slavery, but it's not as if that is the intent of these moves. Poor snowflake nazis, eh? Do you honestly believe people lobbying for removal of these old confederate symbols are sitting around going, "Boy howdy, I bet we can really piss of the new nazi movement by doing X," (you probably DO think that idiocy, nevermind). As for "virtue signalling" (good use of a meaningless, know-nothing phrase, btw), wtf do you consider nazis marching in the street if not the equivalent "virtue signalling," only their virtues are supporting both a past genocide and a hope-for sequel, along with hating jews, blacks, and anyone else not Aryan enough for them.

The language used by the Charlottesville mayor was irresponsible, encouraging any and all opposition to the protest gathering. Should-lose-his-job irresponsible, given the outcome of the day, but no doubt he's beyond scrutiny, protected by all of the magnificent virtue signalling he's been doing.

It's the pushback against Trump using teh Russians that has brought us ever nearer to WW3. Not Trump per se. And again, the rally/protest came about as a result of another kind of pushback against Trump - removing a statue of Lee that stood there just fine and dandy for all of Obama's 8 years and more.


Many would argue that the statue did not stand there "Just fine and dandy" for any of its history, and certainly not for the last 8 years. But there you go, gotta bring Obama into the discussion somehow. The movement to remove monuments celebrating the south's attempted secession in order to maintain slavery did not just pop up on Jan. 20 when Trump was inaugurated. And there you go again with the "virtue signalling" horseshit again. Anyone who publicly expresses an opinion that certain things are wrong is apparently "virtue signalling" to you, while anyone who marches while screaming about "jews and jew-lovers" is just 'having a good time', eh?

It must be interesting to live with a world-view so detached from all sense of morals that you can justify GODDAMNED NAZIS because "the left" is just provoking them too much.

What does RI think about the open wearing of Nazi and Hitler themed regalia?

My opinion is to wear actual Nazi and Hitler themed regalia is so shameful

and hostile to so many good people.

They should be condemned and it is hard not to wish harm upon their souls.

They have lost their seat for civil discourse and are against egalitarian freedoms.

USA institutions and law enforcement best treat them as disruptors and terrorists of social order and the Constitution.

This movement should have been nipped in the bud.

Neither am I a fan of the antifa "movement" even though I am an anti-fascist.

The people looking for violent confrontations are not positive movements.

The demonstrations could get (and are already but could get way worse) extremely out of hand especially with our idiot black heart POTUS and those like him.


What does RI think about Nazis no longer hiding under their dark, hate-filled rocks at places like 4-chan and zerohedge? Morty seems to be cool with it. I, for one, think it's disgusting that this is happening in my country, and that a fair number of people (and there are many people with similar views to Morty's above, sadly) are not only OK with it, but willing to defend the hate-mongers and even justify them as a reasonable response to the perceived persecution of goodly white men by "left-wing provocations" like removing monuments to a slavery-supporting general who waged open war against the United States of America, or the triggering act of telling racists it's no longer okay to say "gook" or "nigger" at the workplace, especially if you're a police officer. You know, all the evil, provocative, SJW, virtue-signalling things that equate to BEING A DECENT FUCKING HUMAN BEING.

As to civil discourse, the fucks marching with swastika armbands don't want discourse of any kind. They WANT race war to erupt. They have been having wet dreams about it for many years, and they are coming harder than ever before now that their man Trump is making the White House white again.
I'm not a fan of the violent anti-fa fucktards, but moral equivalence here is dangerous, as one group wants to bash nazis, while another wants to literally exterminate large segments of humanity.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:59 am

mentalgongfu2 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:05 am wrote:Morty disturbingly said:

This looks like a big "let's you and him fight" scenario to me. And the participants are all up for it, big time, so what at the end of the day is there to complain about? Antifa wanted to kick some Nazi heads. Flag waving Nazis wanted to spend a day out from under their rocks and wave their flags. A good time was had by all. Who would begrudge them that??

This all came about because of plans to remove a Robert E. Lee statue. That's a provocation, and the immediate response to the outcome of the protest was for a mayor of some other town to announce the removal of another statue. That's another provocation. The left sits at home and grumbles when their economic status receives a kick in the teeth, time after time after time...but give them a chance to larp a virtue signal and they're out on the streets with bells on.


I can allow that nazi scum felt provoked aka "triggered" by the removal of a historical symbol of slavery, but it's not as if that is the intent of these moves. Poor snowflake nazis, eh? Do you honestly believe people lobbying for removal of these old confederate symbols are sitting around going, "Boy howdy, I bet we can really piss of the new nazi movement by doing X," (you probably DO think that idiocy, nevermind). As for "virtue signalling" (good use of a meaningless, know-nothing phrase, btw), wtf do you consider nazis marching in the street if not the equivalent "virtue signalling," only their virtues are supporting both a past genocide and a hope-for sequel, along with hating jews, blacks, and anyone else not Aryan enough for them.

The language used by the Charlottesville mayor was irresponsible, encouraging any and all opposition to the protest gathering. Should-lose-his-job irresponsible, given the outcome of the day, but no doubt he's beyond scrutiny, protected by all of the magnificent virtue signalling he's been doing.

It's the pushback against Trump using teh Russians that has brought us ever nearer to WW3. Not Trump per se. And again, the rally/protest came about as a result of another kind of pushback against Trump - removing a statue of Lee that stood there just fine and dandy for all of Obama's 8 years and more.


Many would argue that the statue did not stand there "Just fine and dandy" for any of its history, and certainly not for the last 8 years. But there you go, gotta bring Obama into the discussion somehow. The movement to remove monuments celebrating the south's attempted secession in order to maintain slavery did not just pop up on Jan. 20 when Trump was inaugurated. And there you go again with the "virtue signalling" horseshit again. Anyone who publicly expresses an opinion that certain things are wrong is apparently "virtue signalling" to you, while anyone who marches while screaming about "jews and jew-lovers" is just 'having a good time', eh?

It must be interesting to live with a world-view so detached from all sense of morals that you can justify GODDAMNED NAZIS because "the left" is just provoking them too much.

What does RI think about the open wearing of Nazi and Hitler themed regalia?

My opinion is to wear actual Nazi and Hitler themed regalia is so shameful

and hostile to so many good people.

They should be condemned and it is hard not to wish harm upon their souls.

They have lost their seat for civil discourse and are against egalitarian freedoms.

USA institutions and law enforcement best treat them as disruptors and terrorists of social order and the Constitution.

This movement should have been nipped in the bud.

Neither am I a fan of the antifa "movement" even though I am an anti-fascist.

The people looking for violent confrontations are not positive movements.

The demonstrations could get (and are already but could get way worse) extremely out of hand especially with our idiot black heart POTUS and those like him.


What does RI think about Nazis no longer hiding under their dark, hate-filled rocks at places like 4-chan and zerohedge? Morty seems to be cool with it. I, for one, think it's disgusting that this is happening in my country, and that a fair number of people (and there are many people with similar views to Morty's above, sadly) are not only OK with it, but willing to defend the hate-mongers and even justify them as a reasonable response to the perceived persecution of goodly white men by "left-wing provocations" like removing monuments to a slavery-supporting general who waged open war against the United States of America, or the triggering act of telling racists it's no longer okay to say "gook" or "nigger" at the workplace, especially if you're a police officer. You know, all the evil, provocative, SJW, virtue-signalling things that equate to BEING A DECENT FUCKING HUMAN BEING.

As to civil discourse, the fucks marching with swastika armbands don't want discourse of any kind. They WANT race war to erupt. They have been having wet dreams about it for many years, and they are coming harder than ever before now that their man Trump is making the White House white again.
I'm not a fan of the violent anti-fa fucktards, but moral equivalence here is dangerous, as one group wants to bash nazis, while another wants to literally exterminate large segments of humanity.


We are in agreement.

I did not intend to imply any moral equivalent to the antifa folks looking for a confrontation but that they add fuel to the violence. Trump allows the current aura of equivalence.

I do not think that the Nazi's want civil discourse at all but do think that allowing their high visibility and ability to threaten and act violent should be denied because they are creeps and criminals that are the negative of egalitarian freedoms.

It is all about being decent human beings.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby Morty » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:49 am

Scanning the Wikipedia page for Robert E. Lee earlier (and that's about the extent of my knowledge of him) I got the impression that a) he wasn't exactly a grotesque figure, and b) to go out of the way to remove a statue of him from public view is not merely a step towards removing nuance from a shared understanding of U.S. history, it simply serves as a means of erasing history, period. I don't see the point in that, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

I'm not entirely in bad company:
Levar Stoney, the mayor of Virginia’s capital Richmond, said in a June press conference that he doesn’t want his city’s Confederate statues removed. Instead, he’d like to see historical context added. Richmond has five Confederate statues along Monument Avenue.

“Equal parts myth and deception, they were the ‘alternative facts’ of their time — a false narrative etched in stone and bronze more than 100 years ago — not only to lionize the architects and defenders of slavery, but to perpetuate the tyranny and terror of Jim Crow and reassert a new era of white supremacy,” the mayor, a 35-year-old African American who previously worked for Governor Terry McAuliffe, said in June. However, he added that future statues should reflect the diversity of the city.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/robert-e- ... ionalists/
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:57 am

historical context added.




these racist "memorials" went up in the 1960's when white nationalists wanted to send a message to the "blacks"

The Stubborn Persistence of Confederate Monuments
A new report identifies some 1,500 memorials to the Civil War’s losing cause, from schools to state holidays, ranging from the Deep South to the Pacific Northwest.


A protest held by the Virginia Flaggers, a group that flies the Confederate battle flag, at the Jefferson Davis statue on Monument Avenue in Richmond, Virginia.Steve Helber / AP
DAVID A. GRAHAM APR 26, 2016 NEWS

For most Americans, today is the second day of work this week. But state employees in Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia are just kicking off the work week: They had Monday off for Confederate Memorial Day.

Last July, it seemed like the momentum against the Confederacy had turned definitively, the biggest reversal since July of 1863. After the massacre at Emanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston, South Carolina lowered the Confederate battle flag from the capitol grounds. Alabama Governor Robert Bentley ordered it removed in Montgomery, the former capital of the Confederacy, too. Cities and states began tearing down or quietly removing statues, flags, and other memorials.

But as Abraham Lincoln and the Union Army discovered, there’s a long road between reversing momentum and actually winning the war. For all the high-profile removals, there remains a stunning number of Confederate Civil War monuments, memorials, and namesakes in public spaces around the country, as a new inventory taken by the Southern Poverty Law Center makes clear.

Relying on federal, state, and local databases, the often-controversial liberal group took a tally of Confederate-related sites around the country and found more than 1,500 in 31 states. They range from East Wenatchee, Washington, to Miami, Florida, and take in everything from a workaday obelisk in Anniston, Alabama, that commemorates Major John Pelham, to the bas-relief of President Jefferson Davis and Generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson that looms hundreds of feet at Stone Mountain, Georgia.

The day after Dylann Roof committed the massacre in Charleston, my colleague Ta-Nehisi Coates laid out the moral case for removing the flag and, with it, other Confederate sites:

The Confederate flag’s defenders often claim it represents “heritage not hate.” I agree—the heritage of white supremacy was not so much birthed by hate as by the impulse toward plunder. Dylann Roof plundered nine different bodies last night, plundered nine different families of an original member, plundered nine different communities of a singular member. An entire people are poorer for his action. The flag that Roof embraced, which many South Carolinians embrace, does not stand in opposition to this act—it endorses it. That the Confederate flag is the symbol of of white supremacists is evidenced by the very words of those who birthed it.
Establishing monuments to Confederate war heroes, in turn, celebrates men who committed treason and sought to break the nation apart in the name of slavery.

It will come as little surprise that the greatest number of these sites are in the states of the Confederacy, and to a lesser extent in border states. Nor is this a case of the Deep South being somehow behind the times, as opposed to their more forward-thinking neighbors. In fact, the upper South is dotted with rebel symbols. The greatest collection is in Virginia, with 223. That makes some sense, since Richmond served as the Confederate capital for most of the war; the commonwealth hosted more battles than any other; and the Confederacy’s two most famous generals, Lee and Jackson, were both Virginians. Texas, with 178, comes next, followed by Georgia, North Carolina, and Mississippi.

But a surprising number of sites are not in the South. A handful of symbols bear Confederate dedications in Northern States, including New York, which furnished more soldiers to the Union war effort and saw more of them die than any other state, and California, where schools in San Diego and Long Beach are named for Robert E. Lee. (Illinois, the land of Lincoln, has none.)

Those schools are perhaps some of the most egregious examples—unlike monuments to the local war dead, for example, they go out of their way to celebrate the rebellion in a venue otherwise unconnected to the war. Lee, the great beneficiary of the late-20th century “Lost Cause” myth, is the most common honoree, with 52 schools named for him. Other common namesakes include Jackson (15 schools), Jefferson Davis (13), and P.G.T. Beauregard and Nathan Bedford Forrest (seven each). Forrest is a particularly appalling choice. A cavalry general and probable war criminal, Forrest was the first grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. Several years ago, a school board in Jacksonville, Florida, removed his name from a high school—which hadn’t been integrated until 1971, and then only after a federal court order. SPLC notes that 27 of these 109 schools named for prominent Confederates are majority black.

Confederate lionization manifests itself in other ways. Six states include elements of Confederate flags in their official flags today. There are nine official state Confederate holidays. And as SPLC notes, there’s also the especially weird case of the 10 forts and military bases named for heroes of a cause that sought to defeat the U.S. military and killed tens of thousands of its soldiers. At the heat of the renaming push last summer, the Department of Defense was asked whether it was considering changing those names. A Pentagon spokesman said it was not.

The debate continues, in part because no one agrees on its terms, much less what conclusions they dictate. Some defenders of the Confederacy continue to insist, incorrectly, that the war was fought over something other than slavery. But some people, including those who deplore the Confederacy, have staked out middle grounds, like arguing for the removal of flags but not all monuments.

“Leaving Confederate memorials up and supplementing them with more accurate historical monuments as well as contextualizing markers is not a perfect solution,” Ethan Kytle and Blain Roberts wrote in The Atlantic last year. “But the statues also bear mute witness to the Jim Crow culture that venerated men who initiated a bloody civil war to protect an inhumane institution. If they make the public uneasy, that is because this past is uncomfortable.”

This argument seems to founder on the details. Does the grand boulevard of Richmond’s Monument Avenue stand as a rebuke to the white-supremacist South where it was built? Or does it simply glorify the traitors it depicts in elaborate, heroic fashion? The unanimous vote by city leaders to add a statue of the black tennis star Arthur Ashe in 1995 certainly implied the latter, but the tacked-on juxtaposition simply accents the inherent flaws in Monument Avenue’s existence.

Some of the sites on SPLC’s list raise more subtle questions, however. The organization says it has excluded “approximately 2,570 Civil War battlefields, markers, plaques, cemeteries and similar symbols that, for the most part, merely reflect historical events,” but some are judgment calls. Does a 10-inch cannon installed at Mobile, Alabama, glorify the Confederacy? Others mark easily defensible and historically important sites in unfortunate ways: A marker in Bloomfield, Iowa, that marks the furthest northern incursion of rebel forces into the Hawkeye State, for example, sports a Confederate flag and a plaque placed by the neo-Confederate group the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

A monument to Confederate Secretary of State Judah P. Benjamin, who fled the country as the war ended, may be plainly out of line. But what about Joe Wheeler? The Confederate lieutenant general’s name graces 11 separate sites, according to SPLC’s count. But Wheeler is a particular rarity: After serving as a top CSA officer, he rejoined the U.S. Army at the age of 61 in 1898, and served a major general in the Spanish-American War, leading into battle units of the same army he’d tried to defeat decades before. (According to legend, Wheeler became disoriented in the midst of a battle, encouraging his troops by shouting, “Let's go, boys! We've got the damn Yankees on the run again!”) Is Wheeler a goat, or a redeemed hero?

The many public sites identified in the SPLC report point to one of the most compelling critiques of Confederate monuments. Maintaining them requires taxpayer dollars. Even when there’s strong support at a local level for an individual monument, many of them exist in part by taxing populations that may not otherwise support them, but have no choice—like any black Southerner whose property taxes support a school named for Nathan Bedford Forrest. As Steven Weiss pointed out in The Atlantic several years ago, the federal government has spent millions of dollars in recent years alone to create and install headstones to Confederate veterans. Federal monies also fund such odd sites as the Stonewall Jackson Shrine—it’s really called that—a National Park Service site in Virginia where the general died.

But what about the importance of historical memory? Even that argument may be somewhat spurious, as the SPLC report demonstrates. Many of the treasured monuments that seem to offer a connection to the post-bellum South are actually much later, anachronistic constructions, and they tend to correlate closely with periods of fraught racial relations, as my colleague Yoni Appelbaum has noted. South Carolina didn’t hoist the battle flag in Columbia until 1961—the anniversary of the war’s start, but also the middle of the civil-rights push, and a time when many white Southerners were on the defensive about issues like segregation and voting rights.

A timeline of the genesis of the Confederate sites shows two notable spikes. One comes around the turn of the 20th century, just after Plessy v. Ferguson, and just as many Southern states were establishing repressive race laws. The second runs from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s—the peak of the civil-rights movement. In other words, the erection of Confederate monuments has been a way to perform cultural resistance to black equality.

Fittingly, in this era of Black Lives Matter and criminal-justice reform, there’s once again a reactionary backlash involving Confederate monuments. The goal here isn’t to build more—that seems outlandish to all but the most hardened neo-Confederates—but instead to defend the ones that exist. In Louisiana, legislators tried to pass a bill that would ban the removal of Confederate monuments, but the bill seems to have stalled for the moment. In Virginia, a similar bill made it as far as the desk of Governor Terry McAuliffe, who vetoed it. North Carolina’s version made it into law.

The fierce resistance when Confederate monuments are in question stands as a reminder of the issues at stake in the Civil War, and the ways in which they remain unsettled in contemporary American society. It is perhaps a more eloquent and evocative reminder than any of the 1,500 remaining Confederate symbols can ever be.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... ent=safari


But what about the importance of historical memory?


Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:24 am

Scanning the Wikipedia page for Robert E. Lee earlier (and that's about the extent of my knowledge of him) I got the impression that a) he wasn't exactly a grotesque figure, and b) to go out of the way to remove a statue of him from public view is not merely a step towards removing nuance from a shared understanding of U.S. history, it simply serves as a means of erasing history, period. I don't see the point in that, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

I'm not entirely in bad company:


Hey, if you want to argue that the statue shouldn't be removed, that's one thing. I happen to disagree strongly, but there is actual room for a debate there. However, if you want to argue, as you did earlier, that neo-Nazis are justified because they are somehow being provoked by "the left," then you ARE in entirely bad company.
Last edited by mentalgongfu2 on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby Cordelia » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:54 am

The statue of contention:

Image

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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby norton ash » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:07 pm

Debate the statue's removal, take it to the Supreme Court, whatever. But organizing a Unite the Right rally and a torchlight parade is just being the fucking Nazis that they are, emboldened by their relationship with the madman POTUS. It's evil.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby Cordelia » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:44 pm

KUAN » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:06 am wrote:Every time I read this thread title I see it as 'The Rise of Bigfoot America Thread'
Fuck the bigots


Me too.

Image

1942 General Electric poster:
Image

It has.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby liminalOyster » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:04 pm

I'm sort of amused people keep calling the alt-right nazis. It's not worse to be a nazi, IMHO; it's worse to assert oneself as a "torchbearer" of the culture of (and forms of production inherent to) slavery which long preceded Hitler. That's what these sad-sacks are attempting to do, with their Wal-Mart tiki lamps - a portrait in total humiliation, btw, however entirely well-deserved.

When dipshit pols like Terry McCauliffe emerge as the profiles in courage of the day against "white supremacy," I can't help but feel like calling these guys nazis (rather than the return of the american repressed) is pushing deeper historical fault-lines off the table.

I heard this impressive piece on the history of slavery in Barbados a few weeks ago and highly recommend it for a reminder as to just how sanitized our representations of slavery have become in recent years:

https://soundcloud.com/latinomediacolle ... s-examined
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:37 pm

Morty » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:49 am wrote:Scanning the Wikipedia page for Robert E. Lee earlier (and that's about the extent of my knowledge of him) I got the impression that a) he wasn't exactly a grotesque figure, and b) to go out of the way to remove a statue of him from public view is not merely a step towards removing nuance from a shared understanding of U.S. history, it simply serves as a means of erasing history, period. I don't see the point in that, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

I'm not entirely in bad company:
Levar Stoney, the mayor of Virginia’s capital Richmond, said in a June press conference that he doesn’t want his city’s Confederate statues removed. Instead, he’d like to see historical context added. Richmond has five Confederate statues along Monument Avenue.

“Equal parts myth and deception, they were the ‘alternative facts’ of their time — a false narrative etched in stone and bronze more than 100 years ago — not only to lionize the architects and defenders of slavery, but to perpetuate the tyranny and terror of Jim Crow and reassert a new era of white supremacy,” the mayor, a 35-year-old African American who previously worked for Governor Terry McAuliffe, said in June. However, he added that future statues should reflect the diversity of the city.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/robert-e- ... ionalists/


Morty, your first comment is the most offensive thing I've read posted by a member since btia's departure. I believe the sentiments you've shared have outed you as a white supremacist, though I could very well be wrong.

You say the Charlottesville Mayor's statement was "inflammatory." Please point out for us what it was he said that you found inflammatory, cause I missed it.

Mike Signer
August 11 at 7:11pm

Statement on the Rally at the University of Virginia

I have seen tonight the images of torches on the Grounds of the University of Virginia. When I think of torches, I want to think of the Statue of Liberty. When I think of candelight, I want to think of prayer vigils. Today, in 2017, we are instead seeing a cowardly parade of hatred, bigotry, racism, and intolerance march down the lawns of the architect of our Bill of Rights. Everyone has a right under the First Amendment to express their opinion peaceably, so here's mine: not only as the Mayor of Charlottesville, but as a UVA faculty member and alumnus, I am beyond disgusted by this unsanctioned and despicable display of visual intimidation on a college campus.


Perhaps if you better understood who Lee was, you would better understand why keeping his statue in place is in and of itself, inflammatory. Their Town Council voted to remove the statue, opponents sued and lost: the statue ordered removed.

First thing to know about Lee, the leader of the Confederate States of America, is that he was a West Point graduate and a traitor to the United States of America, who defected from the US Army to join confederate forces in revolution against the union of United States of America.

The mere presence of Lee's statue, or that of any General for the Confederacy, is a constant reminder of the oppression of slavery and the torments suffered by slaves inflicted by their owners.

As well, it is also a constant reminder of great loss to those supporting racism, one fight they seem determined to renew, but they remain losers, and descended from losers, now matter how you toss the dice.

It was the longest line of torches I've ever seen, and I was around in the '50s & '60s.

Lastly, as slad has pointed out, the Lee statue is less than 100 years old, having been erected in 1924.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:42 pm

Watch live: Protesters, police clash in downtown Seattle
Image
http://komonews.com/news/local/what-you ... ttle-today

Image

Image
Image




“I’m Not The Angry Racist They See In That Photo”

By JOSH MARSHALL Published AUGUST 13, 2017 12:35 PM
ImageImage
Image
Touching self-invocation of the ‘real’ Peter Cvjetanovic here. Cvjetanovic was one of the frothing racist bros who was photographed at Friday night’s tiki torch rally …


As his photo shot around the world, he told a reporter from a local tv station …

I did not expect the photo to be shared as much as it was. I understand the photo has a very negative connotation. But I hope that the people sharing the photo are willing to listen that I’m not the angry racist they see in that photo.

There’s no much room for mirth in this dark moment. But Cvjetanovic’s whining is certainly opening for some. This is basically a reductio absurdum of the ‘that’s not the real me’ genre of racist apologetics. ‘You’re making me out like some kind of monster at a racist rally!” we sometimes hear people say. Well, you were just photographed frothing from the mouth and chanting white power and nazi slogans at a racist rally. So I’m going to figure that’s probably you.

Here’s how Cvjetanovic explains his ‘activism’ …

I came to this march for the message that white European culture has a right to be here just like every other culture. It is not perfect; there are flaws to it, of course. However I do believe that the replacement of the statue will be the slow replacement of white heritage within the United States and the people who fought and defended and built their homeland. Robert E Lee is a great example of that. He wasn’t a perfect man, but I want to honor and respect what he stood for during his time.

Here’s a twitter thread from classmates of Cvjetanovic at University of Nevada, Reno reacting with shock-not-shock since he’s the awful racist guy always saying the awful things in class.

Any guess who Cvjetanovic voted for?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/im- ... re-1076393


FOLLOW......
Yes, You're Racist
@YesYoureRacist
If you have to start a sentence with 'I'm not racist, but...' then chances are you're pretty racist. This isn't a bot. RT≠endorsement, obviously.

https://twitter.com/YesYoureRacist
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby Morty » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:58 pm

By way of response, here's a Caitlyn Johnstone essay (a few twitter screenshots are missing so go to the link to see them). I don't fully agree with her and will say a few words about it below:

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/amer ... b1be7d004b
America Fixates On 500 Assholes Instead Of Healing Its Own Institutional Racism

It was mighty kind of the neo-Nazis to hold a violent demonstration in Charlottesville as the US power establishment’s Russia narrative burns to ashes and the American war machine sets its chess pieces in place. The demonstrations have been saturated in corporate media coverage, which has consistently ignored the growing mountain of evidence that our species is being imperiled by new cold war escalations because of a Russian hack that never happened. Now everyone’s preoccupied with shaking their fists at 500 douchebags in self-righteous indignation instead of asking if they’ve been lied to by their government and the mass media propaganda machine for the last year.

And I mean, I get it. It’s so easy to point and screech condemnation at a group of obvious assholes, so satisfying, so socially rewarding. Your odds of finding someone in your social circle who agrees with you when you say “How about those Nazis, huh? Fuck those guys!” are pretty much 100 percent, and it feels good to be united against a common enemy.

But check out the comments this article receives when I say that an infinitely more effective way to fight racism in America would be to institute financial reparations for the descendents of slaves.

I guarantee you this suggestion will receive lots of angry push-back. This article probably won’t even get many reads because people won’t share and won’t read past the headline. People will say I don’t understand American racial dynamics (I’m writing this as part of an ongoing conversation with my American husband), they’ll say I’ve got no right to talk after suggesting that the anti-establishment left align with white nationalists (I didn’t), but most emphatically they’ll insist that monetary reparations for the descendents of slaves is not the way to heal America’s gaping racial wound.

The excuses are endless as to why the possibility of slavery reparations shouldn’t even be subject to mainstream debate, let alone actually tried. As soon as you suggest that liberals put their money where their mouth is because screaming at Nazis every once in awhile clearly isn’t working, they’re nowhere to be found. America’s mainstream liberals are only here for the virtue signalling merit badges; the possibility of giving black Americans a leg up after their unfathomably vicious history of exploitation and oppression is dismissed. It’s easy to condemn the white supremacists goose-stepping around outside oneself — it’s much more difficult to confront the white supremacy inherent in one’s own socioeconomic status.

This issue gets largely ignored by even people on the far left of the American political conversation, but I’ve yet to hear a convincing argument against it. America has a horrific, blood-soaked past, and the reverberations echoing off the walls of the collective psyche have not gone away. Why not dedicate a percentage of America’s massive public sector to truly fixing the damage caused by slavery, and to the genocide of indigenous tribes while you’re at it? Don’t tell me there’s no money while the US has hundreds of military bases stretching all across the planet, drops bombs every single day on countries most Americans can’t find on a map, and pours billions upon billions of dollars into corporate welfare. There’s money. You just don’t want to divert it toward this specific end.

White liberals don’t oppose reparations because there’s no money for it. They don’t oppose reparations because they don’t believe money can be skillfully applied toward helping the victims of America’s depraved history. They oppose it because they’re worried moving black and indigenous Americans up a peg will result in their being moved down a peg. They’re aware, on some level, that they are still living in a country that is woven out of the fabric of white supremacy, and that they benefit from that setup. And they want it to continue.

So spare me your excitement over the 500 assholes in Charlottesville, you liberals and lefties who are more comfortable looking without than looking within. Spare me your self-righteous tweets and your virtue signalling orgies, and instead turn your efforts toward something that will actually work. What you’re doing is not working. Try something different. There have been many great minds who have argued convincingly that money can be skillfully applied to righting the wrongs of America’s past, and it’s time to start considering their ideas.

In a system where money equals power, a ruling class necessarily emerges which is necessarily incentivized to keep the public poor in order to maintain their rule. Power is relative, so the most revolutionary thing you can possibly do in a corporatist plutocracy like America is try to bring economic justice to the masses. This necessarily includes the descendents of the victims of America’s intrinsically white supremacist history.

Those 500 neo-Nazis aren’t bothered by your self-righteous indignation. They’ll be bothered if you move your country into the exact opposite direction that they are trying to push it into. You want to really stick it to these assholes? Stop feeding them attention and start insisting on reparations.

— — —

I’m a 100 percent reader-funded journalist so if you enjoyed this, please consider helping me out by sharing it around, liking me on Facebook, following me on Twitter, or throwing some money into my hat on Patreon.


Hearing of this repatriations idea yesterday after the C'ville protest had flared up, it initially struck me as a bit off topic, but reading her essay, as far as reparations go, I think the idea is a bit misdirected, but well worth thinking about. Blacks in the USA today aren't slaves, and ultimately I don't think it'd be a good idea to start singling out those who can be identified as descendants of slaves. A better idea would be to finally give blacks in the USA full status as citizens. Blacks alive today are deserving of reparations themselves for what they have been made to suffer - their communities so often not taken into consideration, and only ever first in line when it comes, for example, to being targeted for crippling via supply and sale of illicit drugs. But instead of reparations, wouldn't it be of vastly greater value if, say, blacks in the USA were given access to taxpayer funded ("free" "single payer") healthcare? I certainly think so.

Of course, not even whites have full status as citizens in the USA if you consider universal access to a fairly run healthcare system to be a chief indicator. So after going out of my way to correct Johnstone, I find myself arriving at her final location: ..."the most revolutionary thing you can possibly do in a corporatist plutocracy like America is try to bring economic justice to the masses."
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:40 pm

Our Sister's Keeper #HeatherHeyer

https://www.gofundme.com/our-sisters-ke ... atherheyer

Image

Image

"Heather was not about hate, Heather was about stopping hatred," Bro said in an interview with the Huffington Post. "Heather was about bringing an end to injustice. I don't want her death to be a focus for more hatred, I want her death to be a rallying cry for justice and equality and fairness and compassion."
http://time.com/4898705/heather-heyer-m ... nia-rally/


Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:19 pm

The organizer of the Right's unrighteous demonstration in Charlottesville blames the violence, including the fatal auto "accident" on the cops, the mayor and the violent Black Lives Matters protestors. 'The cops didn't protect us. Where were they?'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AOx7NMbMkU

In the next video, Spencer begs the cops who are coming to keep the peace not to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVyOJ9NOmjc

In the next video Alex Jones believes it was all pre-planned by Soros to turn out as it did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF80eMyWQ34

An apologia from the right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWpTPgyG220
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Re: The Rise of Bigot America Thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:55 pm

Morty, I hope this is not meant as a response to me, "By way of response, here's a Caitlyn Johnstone essay..."

Please answer my question,
You say the Charlottesville Mayor's statement was "inflammatory." Please point out for us what it was he said that you found inflammatory, cause I missed it.


Honestly, I'm only focused on the asshole who wrote this, not the Charlotteville 500: "A better idea would be to finally give blacks in the USA full status as citizens."

You're not helping to heal America's institutionalized racism, Morty; you're playing with it.

Blacks in the USA today aren't slaves, and ultimately I don't think it'd be a good idea to start singling out those who can be identified as descendants of slaves.


Are you suggesting we bleach their skin white so we can't tell who is descended from slaves? What about all the black people from Africa who moved here after the end of slavery, what do you suggest we do with them? They might not want to be bleached white and may or may not be descended from slaves.

Ultimately, considering you are soon to become a minority yourself, it's nice you're finally thinking about benefits for minorities. Little premature to call for reparations, though. Give it time.

How about the MDs, hospitals and healthcare providers get together to figure out how much they should be paid from our taxes, and leave us out of the billing cycle altogether. Some would call it 'free health care for all' even though it isn't free of cost to us. Just that when we get sick we get treated and given whatever medicines we need - let the physicians work it out with the government and leave us out of the equation, more or less. No more forms to fill out in the waiting room & no more medical bills!
Last edited by Iamwhomiam on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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