The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Mulligan » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:34 am wrote:Yeah, I definitely drew first Alex Jones blood.


Thanks, Mulligan, I'm sorry if I was unnecessarily harsh, and thanks for the subsequent posts with info and reasoned argument.

I'm not arguing that no gas attack occurred, I'm saying that based on past events, I'm not convinced of it. The chemical-storage-leakage-from-bombing scenario is very plausible to me.

It's been pointed out that it would make little sense for Assad to attack civilians with gas. It would make a ton of sense for his opponents on the ground to stage (or "stage") a gas attack and blame it on Assad. The headlines everywhere are full of the assumption that Assad did it. Less frequently reported are Assad's repeated offers of amnesty to Syrian rebels (not, I presume, to foreign proxy fighters).

This is the age of perception management. The battle is for our minds. Many people seem to have forgotten all about PNAC's "Rebuilding" paper and other think-tank reports that proposed what we see happening today; forgotten about the huge Iraqi-soldiers-throwing-Kuwaiti-babies-from incubators lie; forgotten about Saddam's "credit card shredding machine"—a lie made up by a Fox Noise reporter; forgotten about the heartwarming but phony Saddam statue pull-down, etc. etc.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Mulligan » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:37 pm

There's a lot of unanswered questions on all the theories I've seen so far. I'll admit to being a bit surprised by the reports emerging that Trump is already considering military intervention.

Still, I trust Russia on Assad about as much as I trust the USA on the Saudis. Russia's continuing relationship with Assad is vital for their influence in the region.

I'll agree with anyone who is taking a critical stance to all sides right now, I guess.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:52 pm

This:

Image

I mean, c'mon. I can hardly stop laughing at this ridiculous video.

This is just one reason I find it hard to place any faith at all in White Helmet videos.

Here's another reason:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRd8nNjB-pE



Then I was told in order to get paid I had to work as an actor. We asked, why do we have to do this? We were told, Europe and Turkey will not pay us otherwise. Gulf countries also would not pay.

I was there when they were doing a staged video in Salah al-Din district. There was a burning bus, next to the building there were kids. But it was fake. The kids were waiting until we help them, but they were OK, they only had makeup on their faces and hands.

…I know that same scenes were filmed in the Bustan al-Qasr district.

We were constantly staging [scenes].

Also among us were people who worked with militants. They participated in child execution at al-Mashan square.

We many times asked why we had to work as actors. We were told that we have to make videos and in it say that the army is killing civilians, that the Syrian and Russian armies are bombing civilians… if we didn’t keep saying this, we would not be supported.

I hope that my country will forgive me.”

–Abdulhadi Kamil, former White Helmets ‘volunteer’

Abdulhadi Kamil's account, on camera in the video, jibes with every White Helmet video I've seen, and his story is completely unsurprising to me in this age of perception management.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:03 pm

This video calmly points out what's so very wrong with the White Helmets:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_qNwNuLBo

And remember, these men also serve as press spokemen and primary sources for Western journalists safely ensconced in Beirut, New York, Washington, etc.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:30 pm

Elvis » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:52 pm wrote:This:

Image

I mean, c'mon. I can hardly stop laughing at this ridiculous video.

This is just one reason I find it hard to place any faith at all in White Helmet videos.

Here's another reason:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRd8nNjB-pE



Then I was told in order to get paid I had to work as an actor. We asked, why do we have to do this? We were told, Europe and Turkey will not pay us otherwise. Gulf countries also would not pay.

I was there when they were doing a staged video in Salah al-Din district. There was a burning bus, next to the building there were kids. But it was fake. The kids were waiting until we help them, but they were OK, they only had makeup on their faces and hands.

…I know that same scenes were filmed in the Bustan al-Qasr district.

We were constantly staging [scenes].

Also among us were people who worked with militants. They participated in child execution at al-Mashan square.

We many times asked why we had to work as actors. We were told that we have to make videos and in it say that the army is killing civilians, that the Syrian and Russian armies are bombing civilians… if we didn’t keep saying this, we would not be supported.

I hope that my country will forgive me.”

–Abdulhadi Kamil, former White Helmets ‘volunteer’


Abdulhadi Kamil's account, on camera in the video, jibes with every White Helmet video I've seen, and his story is completely unsurprising to me in this age of perception management.


Congress must investiga.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby barracuda » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:33 pm

https://theintercept.com/2017/04/06/u-s ... al-attack/


One of the proposals drawn up is a “saturation strike” using dozens of cruise missiles designed to hit Syrian military targets —including military air fields — in an effort to limit future Syrian Air Force attacks on rebel positions, according to the two U.S. military officials.

The officials asked for anonymity to discuss classified plans.

The proposed strike would involve launching Tomahawk cruise missiles to overwhelm Russian air defense systems used by the Syrian military. The Russian government currently helps maintain the air defense sites and advises the Syrian military.

According to both U.S. military officials, the current proposal would likely result in Russian military deaths and mark a drastic escalation of U.S. force in Syria.

One U.S. military official said the decision to allow the strikes, which would kill Russians, signals a significant change in policy by the Trump administration. A decision by Trump to go forward with the plan would be a reversal from the Obama administration, which denied multiple air strike proposals that would likely cause Russian personnel casualties in Syria.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:18 pm

That reminds me—for years we've been told that poison gas attacks in Syria could only be Syrian government actions because the gas was dropped from helicopters and the Syrian military didn't have any planes and ISIS didn't have any helicopters.

First, we've seen big military helicopters shepherding the infamous long lines of ISIS-branded Toyata trucks traveling across the desert.

Second, it always struck me as pretty unlikely that the Syrian military would no airplanes whatsoever capable of dropping cannisters.

Now, we're being told that the Syrian government delivered the gas in planes—we have the exact times the planes left the airfield!

It's completely possible that since the last helocopter drops the Syrain government has managed to repair or otherwise obtain some planes.

(At least Robert Siegel on NPR is still saying that the gas attacks are "apparently" the work of the Assad government.)
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:58 pm

Book Review: “Burning Country: Syrians in Revolution and War”
APRIL 7, 2016

Image
A protester holds a sign up in a protest in Aleppo, Syria on April 1, 2016. The sign reads: “I’m Syrian. I called for freedom. I was killed twice. Once in the name of the nation, once in the name of religion.

The crisis of world capitalism is not merely an economic one. In fact, nothing more exemplifies that crisis than the nationalist and sectarian wars that are tearing societies apart. (As this is being written, renewed violence has broken out in Nagorno-Karabakh between the Armenian and Azeri nationalist/capitalist forces. There, a bloody sectarian/nationalist war was fought in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s.) Meanwhile, from Nigeria to Brussels, religious fanatics are ramping up the tensions with their terrorist attacks.

However, the real heart of this crisis, where it is most intense and also where it most affects the rest of the world, is in West Asia/North Africa (what is named by Europeans the “Middle East” – to which we ask: “east of where?”), especially in Syria. That is why the workers’ movement has to become better informed about the war in Syria, how it developed, the present forces at work, and what role the workers movement can play. After all, although there are many unanswered questions, one thing has decisively been proven: Capitalism and the world’s capitalist classes have no solution other than more war, death and devastation.

Towards this end, “Burning Country: Syrians in Revolution and War” by Robin Yassin-Kassab and Leila al-Shami, makes a valuable contribution, although revolutionary socialists would differ with the authors in some respects.

A country whose very origins as a nation are based on Western imperialism through the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916, Syria is geologically very diverse, and maybe as a result also very diverse ethnically.* One of the main ethnic minorities is the Alawi, who practice their unique form of Shia Islam in a country that is predominantly Sunni Arabs. When Hafez Assad (father of present president Basher Assad) took power, he built a base of support in the Alawi community. Denied economic opportunities, the Alawi were able to rise through the government bureaucracy, including the military. Reflecting the times, Hafez Assad also supported pan-Arab nationalism and, domestically, he instituted a fairly high degree of state intervention in the economy, with price supports, etc. He also built a vast repressive state apparatus.

In 2000, Hafez died and was succeeded by his son, Basher Assad. Basher carried out neoliberal economic policies – privatization, etc. – which vastly increased poverty in Syria. This combined with a long term drought to drive many thousands, possibly millions, of people off the land and into the cities, where they formed a huge pool of unemployed, underemployed, participants in the “informal economy,” etc. Along with the neoliberal reforms went continuation of repression. This long-term repression helped create a generally “silent generation”, although a layer of intellectuals did try from time to time to open up society.

“Arab Spring”

The “Arab Spring” changed all that. In a matter of a few months, the situation in Syria was transformed with mass protests throughout the country.

The overwhelming mood of the protests was against sectarianism and division. Conscious efforts were made by the Sunni Arab majority to reach out to the Alawis, the Kurds, etc., and at least to some degree members of these different groups were, in fact, included in the leading bodies and in the movement as a whole.

The Assad regime fought back partly by increased repression. Thousands were kidnapped and over 300 detained, the majority tortured. In one instance, the mangled, tortured bodies of some scores of kidnapped school children were deposited at the doorsteps of their families. The regime also systematically tried to stir up sectarian conflict, hiring thugs posing as Alawis to attack Sunni neighborhoods, and vice versa. They released from prison “thousands of Salafist extremists who would come to dominate the armed uprising.”

Regime Holds On

Image
Assad's war against the people of Syria.

Meanwhile, in what became a feature of the regime’s strategy, they carried out a general war against the population. “Snipers prevented ambulances from reaching the injured. Soldiers arrested medical personnel, set fire to pharmacies and prevented medical supplies from entering the city [of Deraa, where the rebellion was in full swing].” (p. 44) According to the authors, in the first three months of the rebellion, 1,000 Syrians were killed and 3,000 detained by the regime. (“Detention” in Assad’s prisons usually means torture.) Despite all of this, the movement grew, including the beginnings of desertions by rank and file soldiers – usually a death warrant for a regime.

But the Assad regime hung on. According to the authors, part of the reason was the failure of the protest movement to really take off in Syria’s two biggest cities – Damascus and Aleppo. They explain this by saying that, especially in Damascus, there was a relatively large Alawi population which was given both a few privileges (government housing, for example) as well as a steady diet of propaganda that the rebellion was going to attack them. There was also a sizable Christian population, which was also given similar propaganda. Even among the Sunni population, the top Muslim clericswere bought off by the regime, and they helped keep the Sunni majority in line.

Local Coordinating Councils and Assad

As is almost always the case, the activists throughout Syria organized their own bodies to build and coordinate the movement. These were known as Local Coordinating Councils (LCCs).

But Assad did not sit still. He prosecuted his war against the Syrian people, especially the poor. “The regime pursued a scorched earth strategy…. The shabeeha (“ghost troops” – armed militia) scrawled it on the walls. ‘Either Assad or We’ll Burn the Country.’ In the countryside they killed livestock and burned crops. In the towns the army shelled bakeries, schools, hospitals and market places. Hundreds of barrel bombs dismantled Aleppo…. Women feared the roads lest they were raped by shabeeha at checkpoints; men feared detention or forced conscription…. (there was) mass expulsion of the population from the liberated areas…. The war stretched on, and the liberated areas became death zones. This was the vacuum in which jihadism would thrive.” (p. 106) Children were arrested, tortured to death and their mangled bodies left at the doorstep of their parents.

The Assad regime also systematically sought to sow devision. He released some 1500 violent jihadi Salafists from prison. He organized bands of thugs who identified themselves as Alawi to loot and pillage in the Sunni Arab communities, and vice versa in the Alawi communities. “Cities became wastelands, villages, homes and livelihoods lay in ruins, communities were deserted as people fled in search of safety, shelter and food.” (p. 149)

Salafi Armies

Islamic fundamentalism first got a boost through the historic defeat of different Arab armies in the 1967 war with Israel. That defeat set back the left nationalist mood in the region. Then, in 1979 the Islamists came to power in the Iranian revolution, to which the Saudi regime responded by spreading its own version of Islamic fundamentalism.

Assad had a conscious strategy of encouraging their growth in Syria, starting with the release of the salafists from prison. Compounding this was a couple of other factors:

1) The first was the financing they got from other Gulf states;
2) The second was the “air of corruption and disorganization hanging over the FSA model.”
3) The third, according to the authors, was the failure of governments of other countries to support the revolution, combined with the defeat of the revolution in Egypt.


The local revolutionaries were also unclear on how to respond to the rising repression. Many at first called for non-violence, but this clearly was not an option. With thousands of rank and file Syrian soldiers deserting the army, a military response was inevitable. However, one thing the authors don’t mention (so we can assume it did not happen at least on a general scale) was a systematic integration of the soldiers into the LCCs and to make them part and parcel of the revolutionary movement itself. Instead, they tended to form their own “army” – the “Free Syrian Army”, under the control of a few former officers in Assad’s regime.

The militarization of the people’s revolt along with a lack of clarity on some issues (see below) and the conscious strategy of the Assad regime all helped lead to the rise of the salafi (Muslim fundamentalist) armies, starting with the Nusra Front, which is the Syrian “branch” so to speak of al Qaeda. At times, they met a friendly response when they first entered a town, but this soon changed as their repression and also corruption was revealed.

ISIS, which grew out of al Nusra, was essentially expelled from Syria in the years leading up to 2014. However, the anti-Sunni policies of Iraq’s President Alawi gave them a new lease on life. There, with the popular support of the Sunni population in Western Iraq, ISIS invaded and took over large parts of that region, including the major city of Mosul. This provided them with a vast source of arms (abandoned by the fleeing Iraqi army soldiers) and cash (from the banks that ISIS looted). Bolstered by these resources, they were able to stage a return to Syria. Success breeds success, and their reputation as well as their cash enabled them to win over local Sunni Arab leaders as well as rank and file fighters. Their brutal reputation, which they advertised as much as possible through the internet, also helped them win thousands of foreign fighter recruits. Many of these were petty criminals who admired ISIS’s ruthlessness.

The Syrian Disaster

By 2015, Syria was a disaster. Nearly 220,000 killed and almost a million wounded – 6% of the entire population. 715,000 were held in Assad’s prisons, with some 11,000 having been tortured or starved to death. Nearly the entire population (80%) was living in poverty with 65% in “extreme poverty”.

Image
Syrian city of Aleppo after regime's attack

Meanwhile, the Assad regime continued its war against its population, dropping barrel bombs filled with nails on busy market places, etc. “Cities became wastelands, villages, homes and livelihoods lay in ruins, communities were deserted as people fled in search of safety, shelter and food.” (p. 149)

Then there is the refugee crisis, with at least half the population having been displaced, either internally or forced to flee their country entirely. Those who remained, lived “in friends’ homes, in schools, in half-built or partially demolished structures, even under bushes.” And as for those who left the country? Either they risked their lives to get to Europe, or they live in tightly packed tent camps, lacking basic commodities, baking in the sun, flooded in the rain, freezing in the winter.

Despite all this, Syria has changed forever. Syria is a very youthful country, and this generation has been transformed. Whereas previous generations had been cowed into silence, even in their own homes, this one is different. As one Syrian put it: ““‘this is a generation that will seek revenge. And it’s a generation that’s seen its friends shot, that’s woken in the night to fire and screams…. but it’s also a generation reared on freedom – on the slogans of freedom, on the lived experience of freedom, if only for a brief passage… A generation of speech to replace the generation of silence.’” (p. 182)


Continues at: https://oaklandsocialist.com/2016/04/07 ... n-and-war/
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:12 pm

BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM
BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM
BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM
BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM
BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM

50 tomahawks


:yay
trump gets a supreme and a war all in the same day
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Rory » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:24 pm

IMG_20170406_181703.jpg


Lulz. Trump is a dangerous madman, but we support his bombing MENA
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby liminalOyster » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:29 pm

"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:37 pm

Shock and Awe! We'll get the proof later. Time to kill another Mideast leader! USA Number One! MAGA :yay
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:39 pm

and the generals are in charge for sure...trump is vacationing in Florida

thank god there will be little time to worry about all that Russian gossip darn the luck trumpy dumbty ...darn the luck

Opinions, Context & Ideas From The TPM Editors
Attack on Syria

ByJOSH MARSHALLPublishedAPRIL 6, 2017, 9:38 PM EDT
As you've likely already seen the US tonight launched a significant aerial attack on targets in Syria this evening. The AP reports that about 60 Tomahawk missiles fired from warships in the Mediterranean Sea struck a Syrian air force base.

A key question will be the fate of Russian military and/or civilian personnel in Syria, which have become closely integrated with Syrian regime military personnel in recent years. Obviously Russian lives are no more important than Syrian lives. But the geopolitical consequences of Russian casualties or fatalities could be severe.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/attack-on-syria
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby barracuda » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:45 pm

The Russians were warned in advance of the strike, so 50 70 x 1.5 million per missile = ~$75 - 100 ~$100 - 125 mil to shoot at an empty target. Trump's The host of Celebrity Apprentice's approval rating will go up accordingly. This is the best media buy effort I've seen all week with maybe the exception of Pepsi.



edited for clarity
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:49 pm

yea and he is NOT Obama...

but the good news ...trump is just being a peacock and not much will come of it
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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