The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:18 pm

Larisa Alexandrovna Horton on Facebook wrote:
Anyone who supports the Syria bombing last night is an idiot. Sorry to have to tell you that, but you are. No matter what political argument you approach this from, you are an idiot:

Human Rights argument: Tell me how bombing a building is helping the Syria crisis? Syrian refugees are barred from entering the US, despite the plight of the children Trump cites for this attack.

Hawkish argument: Tell me how bombing a building achieved any US military strategic goals in the Middle East? And how is that helping with the ISIS war?

Anti-Russia argument: Tell me how an attack cleared first by Russia - in which only a building was bombed - in any way shows Trump's independence from Putin?
Strong Defense argument: Tell me how this bombing strengthens our national security?

Israeli argument: Tell me how bombing a building helps Israel?
You know what this bombing does achieve? For those easily manipulated and intellectually lazy, this operation of smoke and mirrors achieved a great deal for team Trump:

-Trump is being showcased as independent of Putin. When in fact, this operation was approved by Putin.

-Trump is being sold as pro human rights. In reality, he would deny those same children - the ones he exploited as justification for war - basic sanctuary.

-All reporting and conversations about Trump are moved out of focus. Just in time too, as so much about his corruption and money laundering was starting to be exposed.

-Trump is now re-branded as a strong leader and very Presidential. Bombing a building in another country is all it took to transform a lying, inept, corrupt, demagogue into a President.

-Trump now has bipartisan support on this issue as well as a standing ovation from the very people who have been the most critical of him: HRC, McCain, Graham, etc.

The only bright spot in this theater from hell is that the alt-right has abandoned Trump now. Odd. Bomb a building, get liberal support and lose alt-right support.
Yes, anyone who supports this horror show is an idiot.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:38 pm

As a young man, Bashar Assad could have studied in any field, taken up any profession, pursued whatever suited his fancy, and he wasn't interested in power or politics; he chose to become an eye doctor.

What kind of man decides to be an eye doctor?
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Rory » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:48 pm

I thought he's there through fate, rather than design. His father raised his brother for power and himself was given relative free reign to choose his career (as long as it was respectable).

The old patriarch was a very shrewd and cynical man. The heir was a much more ruthless actor and probably better suited to the job. I don't think Bashar is at all comfortable in his current role
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:10 am

Trump’s Latest Attack: An Answer to Glenn Greenwald


Sloppy at Best; Dishonest at Worst

He starts off by correctly condemning Trump’s attack on the air field, including his rush to do so. But right away, Greenwald runs into trouble, mixing up this correct condemnation with the implication that it’s equally likely that it wasn’t Assad’s forces who were guilty of the gas attack. While he’s right that we shouldn’t just take the word of the US government (or any other) for it, he ignores the fact that the only other explanation for what happened is the explanation coming from Putin & Co. — that the gas dame from the bombs exploding at a chemical weapons plant, and the chemicals combined in mid air to form sarin. All the chemical experts so far say this is so unlikely as to be almost ruled out. Maybe they’re wrong, but Greenwald is sloppy at best, and dishonest at worst, for ignoring this.

Dishonest Implication


Image
Result of Trump-ordered bombing of al Jinah, Syria.
A great many on the left completely ignored this attack. And Greenwald implies it was also on Assad, which is totally false.


Greenwald correctly points out that Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of Syrians, but he then writes: “The CIA has spent more than a billion dollars a year to arm anti-Assad rebels for years, and the U.S. began bombing Syria in 2014 – the 7th predominantly Muslim country bombed by Obama – and never stopped. Trump had already escalated that bombing campaign, culminating in a strike last month that Syrians say destroyed a mosque and killed dozens

This is downright dishonest. There’s no other way of saying it. He’s clearly implying that the policy of the US government has been and continues to be to arm “anti-Assad rebels” and that the previous attack back on March 6 was part of this. In fact, he even implies that the previous attack, too, was aimed at Assad. That is flat-out untrue and it’s hard to imagine that Greenwald doesn’t know it. Even under Obama, the policy was to support Assad, on the one hand by arming the Kurds, who in effect were fighting on Assad’s side, and by restraining the Southern Army from attacking Assad’s forces.


More at: https://oaklandsocialist.com/2017/04/08/trumps-latest-attack-an-answer-to-glenn-greenwald/
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby SonicG » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:53 am

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby peartreed » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:02 am

Hail to The Chief. Hail hypocrisy. And a hail of tomahawks upon all stooges set up to represent the evil opposition of the incompetent and inconsistent, credulity-challenged commander. Even the role of prime enemy is fluid and subject to recasting during filming.

While the Alt-Right suffers the whiplash of a one-eighty policy reversal, the left is left learning a new landscape of political unpredictability that leaves all partisans checking their parts – the established roles in the ongoing government gong show of bipartisan bifurcation.

What we are now witnessing is the mayhem of a truly malleable maverick that will change stars or stripes – even spots – to suit the changing voices in his ear and the images in his mind that best serve his one guiding standard: his inflated self-image.

I imagine both Putin and Assad, not to mention Bannon and Flynn, have now joined the rest of the worldwide wonderstruck jury reeling from a reversal of fortune due to this demagogue’s predilection for independent lunacy.

Not even the series of Syrian sects can contend with his random advances for groping gratification, or abusive assaults for imagined rejections, based on his unpredictable urges and personal needs.

The world holds its breath – and its vitals.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:10 am

Elvis » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:38 am wrote:As a young man, Bashar Assad could have studied in any field, taken up any profession, pursued whatever suited his fancy, and he wasn't interested in power or politics; he chose to become an eye doctor.

What kind of man decides to be an eye doctor?


I think I sense you're implying an anti-social trait? Maybe via the choice to clinicalise the windows of the soul? But I swear every time I've ever had to see a specialist, I've wondered - why the fuck did you pick this, of all things? Also, I had a great optometrist for awhile who really impressed on me just how fascinating and beautiful eye anatomy is.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby SonicG » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:46 am

Actually it might be Kushner and Tillerson locking eyes...Fucking hell, while we might end up with WWIII, it is delicious to watch the "Deplorables" start to go full cannibal...#FireKushner and #FireBannon are a sweet jumble of electronic feelgoodbizarre, sad, hilarious, pathetic and yeah, downright scary...

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#FireKushner
The right is fighting the Alt-Right. This white on white violence has got to stop. If they only had fathers they'd be civilized
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#FireKushner racists are being racist against racists, using racism to incite racists to be racist against the racists that they voted for.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby SonicG » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:12 am

Oh and that RogueLeaks, who, verifiably so it seems, posted this on Feb. 1:
Inside Trump's Life‏ @RogueLeaks Feb 1
More
April 7, 2017 is the day they are planning to start #WW3 but we can stop them by calling it out. #LockThemUp. Please friends, this is urgent

has posted a very wild story on FB. Sorry for the Copypasta but it might disappear from FB:
On January 28-30, 2017, Steve Bannon, Paul Ryan, Rex Tillerson, and Valery Gerasimov spoke together several times and discussed starting #WWIII on April 7, 2017.
Now, our posts went viral when April 7th came (Syrian time, not US time zones) and the #Syriastrike happened...#WorldWarIII began to trend and our posts went viral.
However, throughout the day, we have been receiving a lot of questions so we have decided to write a "tell-all" note about what we know, how we know it, and hopefully answer your questions.
To start off, the #Syrianattack was planned by #SteveBannon, #PaulRyan, #RexTillerson, and #‪ValeryGerasimov over those three days at the end of January. Typical narcissists brag about their upcoming "accomplishments" to their victims and, as many of you know, we both have been victims of harassment and gang-stalking by Steve Bannon.
He likes to brag about what he considers to be his "accomplishments" in an attempt to cause fear in his victims. Only we never have cowered in fear because of him and we've decided to leak what we know.
Normally, Bannon's people stalk our accounts and us incessantly and cause confusion in #theResistance by either paying people off or threatening people and their families into silence, or, in some regards, into lying about what is truly going on.
The people Bannon works for have so much money they just throw it away in an attempt to pay everybody off.
But he has gotten sloppy - we found out he would be let go from his job this week and he was, we found out that Preibus would be leaking or quitting and rumor has it he is, and, most importantly, we called the beginning of WWIII today.
Neither of us are directly involved in the current administration - Robert is from one of the richest families in the world so he grew up around Trump (and was abused by him and his group) and Hepzibah is a pastor, who works as a spiritual adviser to several well-known democratic leaders. But we both know what's going on and we are planning to expose whatever we can whenever we get information.
They've become sloppy this week and that's worked for our advantage.
The #Syrian attack? It was not #Assad who planned it but the four we mentioned. They want war in the #MiddleEast - for money and oil, as usual.
They wanted to set #Putin up as the fall guy and tip his hand for war. You see, Valery has gone rogue - and not in the Resistance sense of the word.
As many of you know, Robert and I have stated from the get-go that Vladimir was NOT behind #electiongate - he was lured into a trap by Jacob Rothschild in spring and summer 2016, during the primaries. He DID do some black hat hacking back then - and worked with #JulianAssange.
Julian worked side-by-side with Jacob and lured Vladimir in... but only for six months or so. Julian? He was on Jacob's payroll. He created fake Bernie and Hillary supporter profiles to cause division amongst the #Democrats. The reason? It's a spiritual reason which we've talked about on countless posts - many people don't understand the spiritual aspect of what we are speaking about so, unless you are interested, we won't go any further into this (you can inbox us here for more info about this).
What we will say is this: Vladimir WAS partially guilty of the primary hacking but NOT of #electiongate. He stopped hacking around late summer, early fall. Jacob was, essentially, threatening him which is what kept him in it for so long. But he was NOT guilty of the rigged election - Jacob was, along with two hundred plus associates who pulled it off through hacking, payoffs/hush money, or threatening.
Putin was played by Donald J. Trump- Donnie acted like he wanted a friendship with Vladimir only to take advantage of him. He played him like a fiddle - knew very few people in the west liked him and was trying to control him. But, as the election drew closer, DJT stopped his praise of him. And withdrew from Vladimir because Vlad was no longer part of Jacob's inner circle.
Going back to #electionday, many were involved in the rigging - some of these people included members of #InfoWars and #Wikileaks, as well as, Steve Bannon, Paul Ryan, Kellyanne Conway, Ivanka Trump, Rex Tillerson, Reince Priebus, and Michael T. Flynn (amongst many others).
#PaulManafort was one of the biggest riggers and got paid more than most did but he ousted himself right before the election and was one of the key players (anybody remember his tweet from the weekend before the election? He exposed their plans - can anybody find that tweet so we can post it here?)
They were all promised things - for most, it was a position on his cabinet or staff - for some, it was shoutouts and support (for instance: DJT supports #AlexJones deeply).
But for others: it was money LOTS of it.
They paid a lot of money to have the election polls rigged for #Trump but #HillaryClinton won on both counts.
Once he "won," Donald began having to "pay-it-forward" to those who helped him get there: he had to play nice with Ryan and he had to give Steve the due he was promised - and Steve began to control Trump's world.
Fast forward to January 2017, right before he took office, Bannon went from having the final say in everything to having the first say. He fed off of Trump's desire to be liked and stroked his ego, while building an empire.
Bannon began considering himself (and we quote) the "president-king." And the plots began.
Around that time, I (Robert) began opening up about my sexual, physical, and emotional abuse at the hands of Donald Trump and his men - I filed a lawsuit and went into hiding - but I also started tweeting the "inside info" I know about Trump and his people. So the threats began.
Bannon began threatening me and Hepzibah, as well as, hiring a group of"Resistance" members to launch an all-out assault against us online to discredit us - this is called projection and the Veil of Confusion (this is just like what Trump did about Hillary). They made up all kinds of lies and spent their entire days condemning us all because Bannon knew, one day, we would be part of his political demise.
But he got too cocky and began to slip. He posted on the dark net about his plans for white domination and World War III.
He began calling us and making fake profiles to stalk us on - even Donald made a few fake profiles to harass us on.
They wanted to make us afraid and shut us down like they did the others - but it didn't work. Nevertheless, WE persisted.
They even offered my lawyer a huge multi-million dollar payoff to turn his back on me and the case - but it didn't work.
Bannon bragged about how the four of them would start WWIII on 4/7 while making it look like they were "protecting" people (after a "terrorist attack" that was really a #falseflag). They targeted a Syria for several reasons - 1.) to get back at Putin for leaving Jacob and their club, 2.) to make it look like "#ISIS" did it, 3.) get the oil and money from the Middle East by creating a new war, and 4.) trying to make Vladimir so mad that he used a bomb to start WWIII.
They also coincided this with the #Chinese PM's visit to #MaraLago because China is one of the biggest targets - they want war between the United States & rogue Russian military leaders (such as Val) and China, non-rogue Russia (VP and those working for him), North Korea, & Islamic nations (Iran and Syria being the main countries).
True to the Trump administration, everything is a distraction: Bannon paid somebody to set up the bombing in #StPetersburg the other day as a distraction from election gate. He set up two other bombs the next day there and he's playing to set-up two-three more false flags in Russia over the next 72 hours or so.
He also used that as a distraction for the REAL terrorist attack in Syria. Which, of course, became a distraction for the beginning of WWIII. What is that military action a distraction for? The #StockholmAttack. What was that a distraction for? The planned nuclear war.
Valery has gone rogue but he is the one planning to launch the nuclear warhead (with Bannon's go-ahead of course) to pin it on Russia - especially Putin because he's walked away from the club.
What is to come?
1) The next step is nuclear war - main cities being aimed at? Beijing or Shanghi
2.) April 20 - three members of their club (two of which are leaders of nations and one of which is working for Donald) are planning three simultaneous terrorist attacks - one in the Middle East (don't know what country), one in Australia, and one in North America
3.) Faux financial instability in the markets - stocks to hard crash over the next month. Why? To put Donald's plans of a dictatorship into motion. Note: Trump is NOT planning this, those working for him are
4.) Widespread outbreak of a disease - selectively killing off those who are weakened or poor.
5.) There's talk that there will be two public mass shootings in the next month and a half - Chicago is a probable location they are discussing
6.) Putin is planning to leak much of the dirt he has on DJT and DJT's people over the next week - specifically related to the crime ring they are involved in (sexual abuse, money and human trafficking, and Trump's involvement with a drug lord in Mexico (real reason he wants to "build a wall").
This is their upcoming plots - granted: they can be stopped by us fighting against them. Paul Ryan admitted yesterday that it is almost over.
Be expecting to see three leaders of the #altright/ #neonazi movement publicly walk away from Trump. Don't know who it will be but there is talk.
Be expecting to see four planes mysteriously "crash" in the next two months, most of which are tied to Islamic countries or those who speak against Trump... know these planes were taken down by our government.
Our lives are being actively threatened and we are having active attempts on our lives so we do not share this lightly. We hope this answered some of your questions, if you have any specific questions please inbox us.
If you are on Twitter follow us: @rogueleaks and @officialNMP
Please repost


Bill Palmer seems much more plausible...Yes yes Putin is "outraged" but there is still so much still murky about why it went down this way...especially important is the timing, with the increase in troops, and especially Tillerson and Haley just last week saying they won't focus on regime change...Of course, it all depends on what happens going forward...

I detest empty conspiracy theories. If the most straightforward logical explanation for something is well supported by the facts, then it’s probably true most of the time. But here’s the trouble with the events of the past forty-eight hours: none of it makes sense on its face. Not the gas attack in Syria. And certainly not Donald Trump’s response. I hate to say it, but these events only logically make sense if they’ve all been arranged by Vladimir Putin.
Let’s start with the gas attack in Syria. In my view, the rebels lack the motivation and the organization to have been behind it. And ISIS was so weakened during the Obama administration that it now lacks the muscle to have pulled this off (and ISIS would be loudly taking credit if it did). And yet Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, genocidal as he may be, would not have done something like this without the approval of the Kremlin, because he is a longtime Russian puppet in both an economic and military sense.
Impeach Trump Now
But Vladimir Putin knows full well that a gas attack like this was likely to prompt at least some kind U.S. military response against Assad. So Putin wouldn’t have been behind this unless he wanted the U.S. to take military action in Syria. And the only logical reason for Putin to want that is if he was trying to set up a win for Donald Trump, which could boost his historically low approval rating. It would also allow Trump to paint himself as being willing to go against Russian interests, as an argument against the most serious charges in the worsening Trump-Russia scandal.
Moreover, the U.S. Tomahawk missiles used in the attack could have been struck down by the S-400 weaponry which Russia already had in place in Syria (source: Washington Post) – but Russia chose not to do so. Additionally, NBC News is reporting on-air that the U.S. strike only took out planes and fueling stations, while leaving the two airstrips intact. The airstrips would have required significant reconstruction, but the equipment can theoretically be replaced tomorrow.
The U.S. attack seemed tailor made to look fierce to casual viewers at home, while inflicting as little real damage to Assad’s air force capability as possible. Trump went out of his way not to substantially impair Assad, and in return Russia went out of its way to allow the U.S. attack to happen. For that matter, Russia seemed to have already known what the U.S. would hit when it made the decision not to take out the incoming missiles. Regardless of any public jawing between the U.S. and Russia tonight, this reeks of carefully crafted military theater.
Combine that with the reports this week from Rachel Maddow on her MSNBC show that the U.S. military had already been building up troops in Syria before the gas attack, and it strongly suggests Donald Trump knew he would soon be taking military action there. Further, Trump tried to keep the troop buildup a secret, suggesting he didn’t want anyone to figure out that he already knew the gas attack was coming.
Trump is a Russian spy
This is a hell of an accusation to make on my part. I’m suggesting that Vladimir Putin orchestrated a gas attack in Syria so Donald Trump could strike back in minimal and symbolic fashion, and that Putin told Trump ahead of time to go ahead and begin building up troops in advance, and that Trump went along with the horrifying stunt. And yet this is – incredibly – the least convoluted explanation that makes any logical sense.
Whatever the real story behind the surreal events of the past forty-eight hours, which has cost the lives of Syrian children and has put U.S. troops in harm’s way, Donald Trump’s role in it must be investigated to the fullest. Because if my logical theory is even half right, then Trump just became a genocidal war criminal.
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/syr ... d-it/2210/
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:30 am

American Dream » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:10 pm wrote:
Trump’s Latest Attack: An Answer to Glenn Greenwald


Sloppy at Best; Dishonest at Worst

He starts off by correctly condemning Trump’s attack on the air field, including his rush to do so. But right away, Greenwald runs into trouble, mixing up this correct condemnation with the implication that it’s equally likely that it wasn’t Assad’s forces who were guilty of the gas attack. While he’s right that we shouldn’t just take the word of the US government (or any other) for it, he ignores the fact that the only other explanation for what happened is the explanation coming from Putin & Co. — that the gas dame from the bombs exploding at a chemical weapons plant, and the chemicals combined in mid air to form sarin. All the chemical experts so far say this is so unlikely as to be almost ruled out. Maybe they’re wrong, but Greenwald is sloppy at best, and dishonest at worst, for ignoring this.

Dishonest Implication


Image
Result of Trump-ordered bombing of al Jinah, Syria.
A great many on the left completely ignored this attack. And Greenwald implies it was also on Assad, which is totally false.


Greenwald correctly points out that Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of Syrians, but he then writes: “The CIA has spent more than a billion dollars a year to arm anti-Assad rebels for years, and the U.S. began bombing Syria in 2014 – the 7th predominantly Muslim country bombed by Obama – and never stopped. Trump had already escalated that bombing campaign, culminating in a strike last month that Syrians say destroyed a mosque and killed dozens

This is downright dishonest. There’s no other way of saying it. He’s clearly implying that the policy of the US government has been and continues to be to arm “anti-Assad rebels” and that the previous attack back on March 6 was part of this. In fact, he even implies that the previous attack, too, was aimed at Assad. That is flat-out untrue and it’s hard to imagine that Greenwald doesn’t know it. Even under Obama, the policy was to support Assad, on the one hand by arming the Kurds, who in effect were fighting on Assad’s side, and by restraining the Southern Army from attacking Assad’s forces.


More at: https://oaklandsocialist.com/2017/04/08/trumps-latest-attack-an-answer-to-glenn-greenwald/



"Sloppy at Best; Dishonest at Worst" describes this article.

It’s not equally likely that it wasn’t Assad’s forces who were guilty of the gas attack?

The only other explanation for what happened is the explanation coming from Putin? Really?

US government policy has not been to arm “anti-Assad rebels”?

Obama's policy was to "support Assad?" Since when?

The Kurds were "in effect" fighting on Assad's side?

There's some twisted logic in this piece but they got this right:

we shouldn’t just take the word of the US government (or any other) for it


Yet even progressives eagerly swallow it—the same PR machine that paved the way for US attacks on Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, killing over a million civilians and leaving a trail of civil strife and destruction. The neocon propaganda war has been fine-tuned to feed the confirmation bias of "socialist" writers like this.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby American Dream » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:13 am

The Syria Catastrophe

Image

THE SYRIAN CONFLICT is what military scholars call a total war, one in which the lines between combatants and civilians blur, societies devote all their resources to the war effort, and tactics gain acceptance regardless of their brutality. Total war manifests in many ways, from the aerial bombardment of city centers all the way down to what happens between a couple of guards and a prisoner in a locked cell. On the latter end of that spectrum, torture stands out as a favored retaliatory technique on both sides and a central component of Assad’s plans for keeping power (as opposed to an ugly by-product of those plans). Summary arrests have regularly occurred since protests broke out in 2011, and except in cases where those detained are prominent figures or members of important families, it is safe to assume that arrests are followed by torture. The war reporter Janine di Giovanni, in her book The Morning They Came for Us (2016), interviewed a man called Hussein, a 24-year-old student of human rights law who helped organize protests in the prewar days. Hussein was captured in Homs and then taken to a hospital the government used as a prison for dissidents. There, he was beaten with sticks, electrocuted, burned, and cut. He suffered a collapsed lung, and at night, unable to walk, he was kept in a room with corpses piled on the floor. One night, his captors laid Hussein on top of a body that turned out to be that of his brother. He only escaped, he says, because a doctor assigned to monitor the torture sessions eventually decided he could not bear to watch anymore. He declared Hussein dead and had him smuggled out of the hospital. This story is representative. In the New Yorker, Ben Taub has reported on torture conducted at a military hospital located near the presidential palace in Damascus. One detainee, having already been tortured for nearly a year, was taken to this hospital when he began to urinate blood. When he arrived, according to Taub, “a nurse asked him about his symptoms, then beat him with a stick.”


https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/onl ... tastrophe/
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:22 am

Context for the current Syria news cycle/recycle:

Saddam Hussein's alleged shredder

In the runup to the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, press stories appeared in the United Kingdom and United States of a plastic shredder or wood chipper into which Saddam and Qusay Hussein fed opponents of their Baathist rule.[1][2] These stories attracted worldwide attention and boosted support for military action, in stories with titles such as "See men shredded, then say you don't back war". A year later, it was determined there was no hard evidence to support the existence of such a machine.

Press reports

The first mention of the plastic shredder came at a March 12, 2003 meeting, when James Mahon addressed the British House of Commons after returning from research in northern Iraq.

Ann Clwyd wrote in The Times six days later, an article entitled "See men shredded, then say you don't back war," saying that an unnamed Iraqi had said the Husseins used a shredder to gruesomely kill male opponents, and used their shredded bodies as fish food.[3] Later she would add that it was believed to be housed in Abu Ghraib prison, and spoke with an unidentified person who claimed the shredders were dismantled "just before the military got there".[4] Two days later Australian Prime Minister John Howard made reference to the "human-shredding machine".

Melanie Phillips wrote in The Daily Mail, saying that the machine resulted in "bodies...chewed up from foot to head". In William Shawcross' 2003 book Allies: The United States, Britain, Europe and the War in Iraq, he claimed that Saddam Hussein "fed people into huge shredders, feet first to prolong the agony". The Sun's political editor Trevor Kavanagh wrote in February 2004 that "Public opinion swung behind Tony Blair as voters learned how Saddam fed dissidents feet first into industrial shredders."

No further evidence for the existence of the shredder has ever been published, though a witness named Ahmed Hassan Mohammed at Saddam's trial in December 2005 claimed to have seen it. Saddam's half-brother, Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti, verbally attacked the witness, shouting he "should act in the cinema."[5]

Rev. Kenneth Joseph

For Americans, a major domestic source for the shredder story was the testimony of Ken Joseph Jr. Joseph, a pastor with the Assyrian Church, and one of the anti-war human shields that had entered Iraq in 2003. He reportedly found that, far from trying to avoid conflict, Iraqis were in favor of an American invasion, and "would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start."[6] He promptly reversed himself and exited the country after hearing this and first-hand accounts of Saddam's shredding machine: "Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head." Johann Hari, a British supporter of the Iraq war, quoted Joseph saying the trip "shocked me back to reality" in a column in The Independent published on 26 March 2003.[7]

Doubts surface

Brendan O'Neill was the first Western journalist to seriously challenge the existence of the shredder, in reports for The Spectator and The Guardian in February 2004. He asked Clwyd and Mahon to provide evidence or the names of the Iraqis who gave them the story.[8][9] He spoke with the doctor who dealt with executed prisoners at Abu Ghraib during Saddam Hussein's rule, who said that all executions were performed by hanging, and denied claims that there was a shredder of any type.

Did he ever attend to, or hear of, prisoners who had been shredded? "No." Did any of the other doctors at Abu Ghraib speak of a shredding machine used to execute prisoners? "No, no, never."

Clwyd responded to O'Neill's allegations in The Guardian later the same month, stating:

Brendan O'Neill was told by my office, but chose not to include in his article, the following information. In his statement, the witness who said that people were killed by the shredder was very specific: he named individuals who he said were killed in the shredder and the individuals who he said supervised the execution by shredder; he stated where the shredder was located and the month and year when the executions took place. The witness was closely questioned by Indict researchers and was described by them as being "unshakeable". He said he is also prepared to testify in court about the incident.[10]

Brendan O’Neill wrote a letter in response to Clwyd’s, claiming that her office had actually refused to give him the information he asked for:

Over the phone, a member of Clwyd's staff read to me, at breakneck speed, a pre-prepared statement about the witness. She said I could not ask any questions about the statement, that it would not be faxed or emailed to me, and that none of the witness's specific information would be made available to me. When I phoned Clwyd to make further inquiries, she hung up.[11]

O'Neill returned to the topic in February 2010, writing "Neither Amnesty International nor Human Rights Watch, in their numerous investigations into human rights abuses in Iraq, had ever heard anyone talk of a human-shredding machine."[12]

An investigation into the Rev. Kenneth Joseph Jr. by CounterPunch revealed serious discrepancies in his story.[citation needed] Groups that organized the human shield action in Iraq say they have no record of him, and "no one, it seems, ever met him."[13][14] Human shield activists speculated that if Joseph had gone to Iraq he was likely "motivated by his campaign for 'Assyrian Independence' rather than the welfare of the Iraqi people in the face of an invasion." Moreover, Bishop Mar Bawai Soro of the Assyrian Church announced that Joseph was not a pastor as he claimed, and had no connection to their organisation.

This incident is sometimes compared to the discredited allegations of "babies thrown from incubators" made against the Kuwait-occupying Iraqi army in October 1990 by Nurse Nayirah, the 15-year-old daughter of Saud bin Nasir Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States.[citation needed]*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hu ... d_shredder



*How lies about babies being taken out of incubators were used to gain public opinion in order to send troops to war.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ2qb7UcdOE
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:49 am

Donald Trump owns stock in the Tomahawk missiles he used in Syria
By Bill Palmer | April 7, 2017 | 0

Donald Trump’s financial entanglements have been the focus of consistent controversy since he took office. He claimed he was putting his assets in a “blind trust” which was later revealed not to be one (source: Chicago Tribune). He’s also been accused of using his office to enrich his hotels. But we’ve now reached the phase where Trump has ordered military action which has given direct financial benefit to a company that he owns stock in.

Last night Donald Trump fired fifty-nine Tomahawk missiles at a Syrian air base. But according to the Washington Post (link), they were a poor choice of weaponry under the circumstances, because Russia has S-400 surface to air defense technology in place in Syria which could easily have shot them down. In addition, Reuters is reporting that the Syrian air base was barely harmed (link), and is already back to operational capacity today, because the Tomahawks were aimed at the least important targets on the base.

This means that Trump went with the wrong weaponry when he ordered the Tomahawk attack (his military advisers would have explained this to him), and he used the missiles merely put on a show for TV viewers at home, rather than doing any real damage. In other words Trump just set a bunch of Tomahawk missiles on fire which, according to a recent Defense Department report (link), may have been worth as much as $93.8 million in total. Why would he do this? Well, he does own shares of stock in the company that makes the Tomahawks.

Tomahawk missiles are manufactured by Raytheon Inc., and according to this report from Business Insider (link), Donald Trump owned stock in Raytheon up through at least the start of the presidential election cycle. There is no record that he subsequently sold that stock. The Tomahawks that Trump just burned up will have to be replaced, meaning he just handed a nearly hundred million dollar payday to a company he owns stock in. Not surprisingly, shares of Raytheon spiked today (link), meaning he’s directly profiting from his Syria attack. And again, it appears the Tomahawks were not the ideal choice of weaponry for the Syria attack.

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/tom ... pany/2224/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Elvis » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:55 am

Donald Trump owns stock in the Tomahawk missiles he used in Syria


Just tonight, I said to some friends, "I wonder if Trump owns Raytheon stock? That was about a hundred million bucks worth of Tomahawks!"
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:56 am

Those of us who grew up in the 80s (and probably those a decade or two older as well) were presented so insistently with nuclear war as a real possibility that it formed our basic cosmology - the world could end and if we were lucky we'd rule the wasteland. It's hard for me not to see something about the psychology of that at work now, as if our receptors are so exhausted by digital media that we practically need tabloid prognostications of WWIII to eve function properly.

Thankfully, relief is here:

Kremlin tells U.S. it's 'one step from war' as Trump warns he will hit Syria AGAIN after his attack on Russia's ally Assad triggers fears of World War Three
"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
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