Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Allegro » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:38 pm

I wince, Alice, reading your posts, and am glad you and husband remain safe.

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Art will be the last bastion when all else fades away.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:14 pm

CNN were reporting today, that Saudia Arabia is sending 5 billion to defeat the "terrorists" in Egypt.

The UAE, or one of the others was also reported to be sending a few billion.

I guess it must be hard to be asked to throw down your weapon and go home, when the kind of livelihood you might expect for yourself and your family would be so dramatically affected as a consequence. Often the complete difference between extreme poverty, long term imprsionment, or some serious relative wealth.

How to influence such minds?



Hey Alice, good to hear from you.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby American Dream » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:03 pm

http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/13 ... lice-state

The Revenge of the Police State

Aug 17 2013
by Wael Eskandar


Image
[14 August 2013, security officer firing tear gas on protesters
as they attempt to escape the attacks by the security apparatus.
Image originally posted to Flicker by tarek1991]


While the ongoing violence in Egypt has contributed to a state of confusion and polarization, one thing is certain: The biggest threat facing Egypt remains the return of the police state. More specifically, the threat concerns, not only the reconstitution of a police state, which never really left since Hosni Mubarak’s ouster, but also the return of the implicit, if not overt, acceptance of the repressive practices of the coercive apparatus. In this respect, the current face-off between the state and the Muslim Brotherhood holds very damaging potential. Widespread anti- Muslim Brotherhood sentiment is currently providing the state with legitimacy to use of force against the Brotherhood, and, in the future, a potential cover for using similar tactics against other dissidents as well.

There is a problem with the way security forces have violently dispersed the pro-Mohamed Morsi sit-ins, even with claims that both Nahda and Rabea sit-ins were armed. Regardless of whether or not one agrees with the Muslim Brotherhood or with the objectives of the sit-ins, the murdering of over five hundred people goes against any sense of human decency and morality. The armed protesters’ reported use of unarmed individuals as human shields is equally despicable and reprehensible. Beyond the serious moral considerations at hand, other problems persist.

The forced dispersal of Rabaa and Nahda marks a triumph of security solutions over political ones—a trend that characterized much of the Mubarak era. Security solutions rarely solve a problem without the support of a political course of action, which seems to be missing in our current context. There is no question that the Muslim Brotherhood leaders have a long history of poor negotiating behavior, showing extreme stubbornness, and failing to uphold their end of their bargain on many occasions, in power and in opposition. But this is exactly why dealing with them demands a politically savvy approach, instead of reliance on security solutions, which will only reinforce the Brotherhood’s rigidity, not to mention the heavy human costs associated with such measures.

Instead, the military and its sponsored government chose a confrontational, security path. This path will only further empower the coercive apparatus without guaranteeing any results, in terms of political stability and social peace. As extremist groups are pushed into hiding, the security leaders will find excuses to employ intrusive surveillance measures, interrogate, torture, and abuse, all with zero transparency and accountability. Supporters of the crackdown among those who oppose the Brotherhood will gladly accept. Reinforcing this trend is the fact that the crackdown has apparently empowered radicalized elements among the supporters of the deposed president.

Some may say that the increasing influence of the security sector will only be limited to “counter-terrorism” and extremist Islamist groups that espouse violence. There are clear signs that this would not be the case. For example, immediately prior to the crackdown against the Muslim Brotherhood sit-ins, retired generals took control of governerships in an overwhelming majority of provinces. For many, this was a clear signal that the state has opted to “securitize” governance, and political files.

Additionally, those who believe that security sector will not overstep its boundaries clearly overlook the long history of the Egyptian state’s meddling in political and private affairs in the name of counter-terrorism and national security. Given that rich history, we could safely conclude that today domestic intelligence agencies are quickly gaining a blank check to meddle in our affairs for the sake of national security. Soon Egyptians will be asked to support their government in whatever decisions it takes on the grounds that the government is at the frontlines of the fight against “violent Islamists.” Political dissidents of all orientations will be vulnerable to the accusation of being soft on “terrorism” or supportive of “radical Islamists.” Will anyone care in the confusing state of insecurity?

Egypt, in other words, is on a dangerous path. There are many reasons to believe that police forces will employ their brutal practices at Mubarak era rates. The policing establishment itself has not changed in anyway, never reformed, and never held to account for its past crimes. Minister of interior Mohamed Ibrahim has even signaled that such a return is imminent, pledging, “Security will be restored to this nation as if it was before January 25, and more."

Tacit supporters of the security state will respond that were was no other way, that there was no room for negotiating with the Brotherhood, and that the forcible dispersal of the sit-ins was necessary.

Such a response, however, overlooks the major limitations of the security solution to the underlying problem, namely that calling on the police—unreformed and lacking the proper training—to resolve the standoff between the Brotherhood and the government is like asking a butcher to do a heart surgeon’s job. Additionally, one could counter and ask: Was it necessary for the police to target unarmed civilians carrying cameras? Was it necessary for security forces to shoot at unarmed crowds? Was it necessary for the police to leave unprotected all the churches that suffered attacks in the aftermath of the sit-ins’ dispersal?

But setting aside analyses of what the police could have done differently, it remains that the recent violence has only deepened people’s reliance on the security state and will exempt politicians from devising solutions to political differences. With the increase in social conflict, particularly along sectarian lines, security services will once again regain their traditional role as an arbiter of these conflicts, as well as their license to employ abusive, repressive tactics. This sustained sense of insecurity will only steer Egypt away from real justice. With the empowerment of the security sector, there will be no reason or motivation to push for revolutionary demands for real reforms inside the policing establishment. It is also likely that the escalation in violence and the pro-security rhetoric that the state has been touting will make it difficult for political dissidents, who are equally opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood and the military, to employ street action.

In some ways, the MB’s confrontational approach, wittingly or not, is handing back the coercive apparatus its license to kill and repress with impunity, but so are all those who are cheering on the security forces’ crackdown against the Brotherhood. Many such voices have criticized Mohamed ElBaradie for resigning his post as vice president in the wake of the recent violence. But in reality there is no role for a politician in a state that is poised to pick a security solution in dealing with every pressing challenge.

As we confront the question of whether or not Egypt will witness the “return” of the police of the Mubarak era, a number of critical questions arise, such as: Is there any revolutionary fervor left to resist this route? Or have revolutionary commitments been drained through all the blood and the failed attempts at establishing a democratic political order?

Whether or not a new wave of revolutionary mobilization will emerge to push back against the growing power of the security state is an open question. But it is clear that the persistence of the confrontation between the state and the Muslim Brotherhood will only deepen the securitization of politics by reinforcing demands for security solutions. What will it take to reverse the return of the police state, which revolutionary activists have worked hard to resist, is uncertain. One could argue that the brutal injustices that the police are bent on committing will always make resistance structurally inevitable. But that suggests that reviving resistance will come at a high price, one that Khalid Said, Jika, Mohamed al-Guindy, and many others have paid.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby justdrew » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:39 pm

someone with a presence on redit needs to post the whole long Alice post above ASAP.

That needs to get out widely. Folks, please post to DU, etc. past it into comment sections (minus the pics I guess) or a link to it at least.

Look, at the MB's US sponsors now. McCain and Lindsay. Typical American Christian Fascists who call themselves Republicans. As Usual. SOP.

I think it's FAR PAST TIME the "left" in the US start to reconsider it's appraisal of the situation regarding Political Islamism. Iraq/Afghan wars can be wrong and yet there can be a real danger too. and the 'conspiracy' crowd can not simply write this all off as 'cia controlled terror' - that doesn't solve the problem or address it in any way. We need to completely dismantle the fascist shadow government and the best move for the moment is voting out republicans and making it damn clear we want the agencies cleaned out too.

We have the tools to identify their networks and nodes.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:03 pm

[quote="Searcher08 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:09 pm"
There certainly seems to have been a step change in the last couple of years in the role of Qatar - from Libya to Afghanistan and Eqypt - is that accurate of is it just a faulty perception from Western media?
Another thing I was wondering about was the role of the forces from the old regime - where are they fitting into this mess?[/quote]

I've become persuaded that there's no such thing as "Qatar", which our great president Gamal Abdel Nasser once famously described as "two palm trees and a camel". Yet this tiny country is the site of one of the world's largest US military bases, and of one of the world's most famous news media. Qatar used to be known for performing an incredible balancing act, managing to maintain good relations with the US, Israel, the Palestinians, Iran, etc., etc. Al-Jazeera was largely responsible for the goodwill enjoyed by Qatar, earning it a lot of respect. (Somebody once quipped, "There are countries that have television stations, but in Qatar, there's a television station that has a state!") I think somebody lost their head with the launching of the "Arab Spring", became waaaay overconfident, and dropped the act. Over the past two years, Al-Jazeera has been plagued with mass resignations from the very people who made and maintained its previous reputation, and has become a bad joke throughout the region. Qatar has been exposed as little more than a puppet state of the US/Israel in the region, or as one pundit put it, America's aircraft carrier, the SS Qatar.

As for the old regime, it is finished, finished, finished. First, because when we overthrew it two regimes ago, its members no longer had any asset or base that they could parlay into power; they were left far behind as Egypt has undergone drastic changes, including on the level of public consciousness, a process that is continuing at a dizzying pace. The only people who even mention them any more are those (like the MB and many of the now discredited 'stars' of the January 25th Revolution*) who think it's still an effective weapon that gives them some kind of power to intimidate, when all it does is cast suspicion on the one who wields it. One thing all of us have learned is that whether it's the Mubarak regime, or the SCAF or the Muslim Brotherhood, what made these regimes so horrible is that all of them ruled us on behalf of foreign bosses, whose approval they sought at the expense of the people they were supposed to represent, namely, us. So we rose up and threw them into the garbage can of history, one after the other, and will never settle for anything less than a government by the people, for the people.

Also, our experience the past two and a half years has taught us that the goals of the January 25th Revolution are not only morally right, but they are a national imperative, vital for our very survival and future as a nation. Nobody would deny now that addressing the issue of economic justice is a major priority, having seen for ourselves what happens when we allow segments of our people to remain trapped in ignorance, extreme poverty, hunger and malnutrition, making them easy prey for saboteurs and conspirators. Thus, we cannot become a strong and independent nation unless we transform our economic system, and we can't do that without freeing ourselves from the need to borrow from foreign lenders who impose predatory conditions, and we can't do that unless the people unite behind their government, and that won't happen unless they trust the government to lead them faithfully and capably, and the people will no longer trust anybody who doesn't deserve it and who doesn't prove that they deserve it; otherwise, they will revolt.

* I owe an apology to Dr. Volin, who turned out to be right about a lot of things, as time as shown. The January 25th Revolution was (and is) a genuine and dynamic and home-grown revolution, but most of its "stars", especially those who were given international prominence as its spokespersons and glamorized, have been exposed one by one as corrupt agents of hostile foreign powers. It's been painful for those of us who admired them so much, and looked up to them were betrayed, usually at moments when these individuals had to decide between their people and their paymasters, with no third way.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:26 pm

One of the biggest lies being promulgated via Al-Jazeera and the Western media is the claim that the police killed 500 people during the break-up of the sit-ins. First, the entire procedure was filmed and aired live, starting at 6:30 am until the camps were completely cleared out. Three policemen were shot dead in the Rabea camp, but no "demonstrators", as indicated by the fact that Al-Jazeera has had to rely on Brotherhood verbal accounts and fake dead as evidence of this figure. There is no film evidence of any police or army brutality of any kind; on the contrary, it is police, and ordinary citizens who oppose Morsy who have been savagely attacked.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby wallflower » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:51 pm

Thank you AlicetheKurious. I wish you godspeed. I'm a lurker, but this thread is a good example of how valuable Rigorous Intuition is to me. The context provided and sense of recent history is exceptional here Thanks to all who post regularly.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:23 pm

Back in 2012, before the presidential election results were announced but after the ballots were in, Muslim Brotherhood second-in-command Khairat el-Shater threatened that if a Morsy victory were not announced, "Egypt would be set on fire." The judge who announced the results began by saying, "I had hoped that Egyptians would have reason to celebrate a genuine democracy." Then he went on to announce the figures.

The elections had been rigged in every way possible, but the US welcomed the ascent of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood to power in Egypt, just as they have been supporting and in some cases even arming them in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Tunisia, among others. During the past horrible year under Brotherhood rule, the US continued to refer to Egypt as a "fledgling democracy", and to the "democratic process" even after Morsy issued a constitutional decree granting himself absolute power and absolute legal immunity, effective retroactively from the day he took power, and even after his minions terrorized the judges of our Supreme Court and prevented them from convening to review the legality of what was happening in Egypt. Even after opponents of the Brotherhood began to turn up tortured or dead.

Only a few weeks before a record-breaking 33 million Egyptians peacefully demanded in person that Morsy be removed, Germany's prime minister, Angela Merkel, issued a request to the UN Security Council to have Egypt placed on the list of states sponsoring terror, after Morsy pardoned and released more than 3,000 convicted terrorists from prison and allowed them to establish a base in Sinai, from which they conducted terrorist operations with complete impunity. Intriguingly, after he was deposed, that same Angela Merkel has been one of the most vociferous advocates of returning Morsy to power, against the expressed will of his own people. Go figure.

Another weird thing is that the US and its allies are now on one side, the same side as the Taliban and Mohamed Al-Zawahiri, terrorist leader of the al-Qaeda base in Sinai he and his buddies set up under Morsi's protection, who has recently been captured and arrested by the Egyptian police, while standing on the other side are the peaceful Egyptian citizens who rose up in world-record breaking numbers to demand their freedom from the dictatorship of a terrorist gang. Why? Why is it so important for the US and its Western allies for the Arab countries to be ruled by the Muslim Brotherhood?

We have pretty much figured it out by now.

First clue: in recent history, there have been three strong Arab armies, in Iraq, Syria and Egypt. Now there is only one.

Second clue: throughout the past few months, police have repeatedly caught smugglers importing the same kind of cloth used by the Egyptian military to make its uniforms, dyed to be an exact match, and small garment manufacturers who were making fake army uniforms, along with an enormous quantity of weapons.

Third clue: despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of Egyptians have made it undeniably clear before the whole world that they don't want Morsy or his Brotherhood, and despite the fact that the Egyptian military simply did its duty by responding to the people's will and immediately handed over power to a civilian government headed by the most senior Supreme Court judge as per the constitution, and despite the fact that we are working on a new constitution and will be holding new elections within 6 months, the Western media and many Western governments call this a military coup.

Fourth clue: the Muslim Brothers have been doing everything possible to instigate a massacre, provoking the army and police beyond belief, attacking officers and civilians with weapons, trying to storm the headquarters of the Republican Guards (imagine what would happen if, say, armed thugs tried to storm the Secret Service headquarters). No go. Forced to rely on outrageous lies about police and army massacres that never happened.

Fifth clue: hey, it worked before, in Libya and Syria. Two relatively prosperous, stable states with strong defensive capabilities, then, you know, NATO, the US and its Western allies go in to, um, defend democracy and poof! Two wrecked countries. Oops.

Anyway, I came across this excellent video compilation of what Egyptians been experiencing in the PAST FOUR DAYS alone, at the hands of Obama's peaceful demonstrators, for whom he expresses so much more concern than for their victims. Sorry for the annoying accent, but beggars can't be choosers and the guy did a great job. Please take 36 minutes out of your life to watch and share it. Imagine if this were your country.

"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:59 pm

Listening to your reports Alice, Im sure Im not the only one who wonders exactly how big "radical Islam" actually is.

Particularly, when youve got an ex NASA man, heading a faction of Govnt, which if logic follows will be full of Western sponsored assets and provocateurs should things start go badly for him.

My best guess is that so ,many of these pro morsi supporters ( especially the organisiers and spokespersons) are "religious" on a par with Mr Dawkins.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:19 am

This may sound silly, but it creeped me out and I thought I'd share it here for what it's worth. On August 15, followers of Turkey's prime minister Erdogan, who is a spiritual godfather to the Muslim Brotherhood, came out with a yellow banner in the center of which was a black hand with four fingers.

Image

Immediately afterward, followers of Morsy began to wear yellow and to put this banner and other yellow photos as their profile photo on their online accounts. Yellow means "wait". Four is a pun on the name of the primary terrorist camp they had set up in Nasr City, in the neighborhood of the Rabea el Adaweya mosque, named after a famous Islamic saint. Her name means "fourth".

Some have interpreted this as a message to Morsy's followers to retreat temporarily, after their repeated failure to provide the US and its allies with a pretext for militarily attacking Egypt by either provoking Egyptian security forces into committing a massacre, or by fabricating sufficiently persuasive evidence of one. The savage attacks against Christian people, businesses, churches and convent schools had the same purpose, but once again, their plan didn't work as expected, because the Coptic Patriarch and the Coptic Christians in Egypt and abroad issued very powerful condemnations of the Muslim Brotherhood and of the US for supporting the terrorist group, and expressed their total solidarity with their fellow Egyptians, the Egyptian armed forces and the Egyptian police.

So the banner seems to be telling the Brotherhood to be patient and "wait for the four". Some people have interpreted this to mean that the US, Turkey and two other states; (France? Germany? Great Britain?) have a Plan B. So there we were, busily discussing this banner and the color yellow, when the following day, the official White House spokesperson turns up wearing yellow, with a green necklace. In the video below, she points out that -- by coincidence -- one of the White House press corps also just happens to be wearing yellow... So, when did yellow become such a fashionable color in the White House?



For reference, this is the logo of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is green and yellow:

Image

For what it's worth.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:30 pm

Please watch the videos I've posted. Apparently, Google is systematically removing the videos documenting what's really going on in Egypt.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby justdrew » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:46 pm

Take a good look at the MB tactics here. We can expect the same tactics from "the christian brotherhood" if they ever make the move they've been readying in the US for so long.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby slimmouse » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:05 pm

The Egyptian people are determined as never before: Christian and Muslim, young and old, military, police, judges, rich and poor, to defend their nation against the gang of terrorists and their brainwashed automatons who have been doing everything possible to destroy it. With the collusion of the Western media and Western governments and Western public relations firms, the Muslim Brothers have been exporting a totally false narrative of victimization that has nothing whatsoever to do with the reality. I give you my word that they will lose, because Egypt is united and strong, with, for the first time in more than 40 years, a leadership that is worthy of our great people.


Just read the entire first article of Alices' for the first time.

May 'the force' be with you and the people of Egypt.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:26 pm

justdrew » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:46 pm wrote:Take a good look at the MB tactics here. We can expect the same tactics from "the christian brotherhood" if they ever make the move they've been readying in the US for so long.


Justdrew, all I know is that none of us ever imagined the kind of ...I keep trying to find a word other than satanic...evil that we've witnessed, especially from individuals we may not have liked, but certainly never came close to imagining had this inside them. It's true we just didn't know one-hundredth of what we know now about what the Muslim Brotherhood is and how it operates, but even if we'd read about it, I doubt many of us would have taken it seriously. I also don't know how to convey how surreal it feels to read what is being said by the Western media. I always knew that they lie, but this is beyond anything. BTW, I wrote a short letter to the Independent, in response to their claim that 638 "demonstrators" were killed by police when they removed the camps. I simply said that the entire operation had been filmed and aired live on tv, and all we saw was policemen getting shot by the armed terrorists, but not one single killing by police or army. I said that our direct experience, as well as hours of video and photos and credible eyewitness reports, all confirm this, and asked what, if anything, corroborates the newspapers' claim of a massacre? My letter was not approved for publication.

Incidentally, the guy in this video has been identified as Ammar Gomaa, a photographer with Al-Jazeera:



This is he in happier times, along with some Tweets he wrote during the course of another entirely fake "police massacre" the following day.

Image

None of this is new for Al-Jazeera.



This video, of the Muslim Brotherhood massacre at the Kerdasa police station that I mentioned in my first post on the previous page, was taken by the killers themselves (the one I posted earlier was taken by the journalists who arrived at the station much later). These brave police officers (including a high-level general from the police force) and men refused to abandon their posts, even though they were vastly outgunned, but they were overwhelmed by the terrorists, tortured and murdered. Their funerals were yesterday, and even in the midst of constant horrors, this has been particularly agonizing. In the video, one of the men who is still alive is berated by his killers: "You brought this on yourselves," he is told, "you are infidels and sons of dogs." Later, the killers tell him, "You think you were alive? You were infidels!"

WARNING EXTREMELY DISTURBING

I can't seem to embed it; here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrTcnDbQ ... 1376857903

All Egyptians stand firmly behind the heroic police and army officers who are sacrificing themselves to defend our people and our nation from the same devils that the US, Germany, Britain, France and other "civilized" countries have decided must rule us, must participate as "partners" in our nation's political future. In the latest outrage, these states are threatening to condemn our government for standing with the Egyptian people against the US-sponsored terrorists that they've unleashed against us.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:48 pm

Oh, and speaking of your shores, brace yourselves. After all the great work they did in Syria and Libya, and Egypt, give a warm welcome to Al-Jazeera America.
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