Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported

[Simulist]

If the Israelis would just quit starving these people, I'd be thrilled. The '67 border? Even better.

But for right now, food and medicine are looking pretty good. I hope it happens. Right away.

[kenoma]

hey - he's offering to get behind the '67 boarder, I think everyone would be thrilled with that. If that came to pass, whatever sense of superiority he may or may not harbor in his heart would be fine by me and not an issue. Peace would change hearts in time (and time surely will).

He's not really offering anything at all - he's just going through the motions of his designated role as the official IDF-approved 'conscience of Israel'. The supposed offer - which wouldn't "thrill everyone", since it says nothing about the right of return, the dismantling of existing settlements, the equality of Palestinians in the Jewish state etc. - is contingent upon all sorts of preconditions which only this bleeding-heart zionist gets to define.
He wants to talk to "the Palestinians", not Hamas (but what then are Hamas and those who voted for them?)
He wants peace, he says - by peace he means merely a "conflict between Israel and the Gaza Strip" (and don't forget that this creep cheered on the genocide in Gaza last year).
He wants Hamas to integrate with the collaborators in Abbas' Fatah, because this is the only reasonable precursor to serious negotiations.
He wants, he wants, and he wants still more - after the state he's shilled for for decades has taken almost everything from the Palestinians.
What a generous offer! What a beautiful soul!

[justdrew]

yeah, those are all good points kenoma

[ninakat]

~

Wow. And to think I once had a modicum of respect for Spitzer. No more.

What an ass.

Yeah. Me too. What happened?
~

He got a job in America's "mainstream media".

Yeah, I gotta chime in here with my disgust for Spitzer. He had to have been a sellout way before he got that job with the MSM.

This event has raised a lot of awareness of just how propagandized we are about Israel. Kudos to Glenn Greenwald once again -- he's a real rarity. The only thing Spitzer did right was have him on the show. It'll probably be the last time though.

[Elvis]

About the Spitzer/Greenwald MSNBC exchange, I have to wonder if Greenwald's bad audio was deliberate: his microphone sounded like it was across the room, in contrast to Spitzer's clear, closeup sound. In those situations they always use a standard lavalier mic (you know, the little mic clipped to the necktie); am I to believe the crew didn't have one on hand? It just immediately struck me as sabotage.

(I didn't see the previous, pro-Israel commenters to compare; I assume their audio was more clear.)

[smiths]

literally 90 seconds before my segment was about to begin, the new cam and sound system I just acquired stopped working, forcing me to unplug everything and use only my laptop cam and mic, which caused the technical aspects to be less than ideal

Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... index.html

[smiths]

NATO HQ in Brussels is today a very unhappy place. There is a strong understanding among the various national militaries that an attack by Israel on a NATO member flagged ship in international waters is an event to which NATO is obliged - legally obliged, as a matter of treaty - to react.

I must be plain - nobody wants or expects military action against Israel. But there is an uneasy recognition that in theory that ought to be on the table, and that NATO is obliged to do something robust to defend Turkey.

Mutual military support of each other is the entire raison d'etre of NATO. You must also remember that to the NATO military the freedom of the high seas guaranteed by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea is a vital alliance interest which officers have been conditioned to uphold their whole career.

That is why Turkey was extremely shrewd in reacting immediately to the Israeli attack by calling an emergency NATO meeting. It is why, after the appalling US reaction to the attack with its refusal to name Israel, President Obama has now made a point of phoning President Erdogan to condole.

But the unhappiness in NATO HQ runs much deeper than that, I spoke separately to two friends there, from two different nations. One of them said NATO HQ was "a very unhappy place". The other described the situation as "Tense - much more strained than at the invasion of Iraq".

Why? There is a tendency of outsiders to regard the senior workings of governments and international organisations as monolithic. In fact there are plenty of highly intelligent - and competitive - people and diverse interests involved.

There are already deep misgivings, especially amongst the military, over the Afghan mission. There is no sign of a diminution in Afghan resistance attacks and no evidence of a clear gameplan. The military are not stupid and they can see that the Karzai government is deeply corrupt and the Afghan "national" army comprised almost exclusively of tribal enemies of the Pashtuns.

You might be surprised by just how high in Nato scepticism runs at the line that in some way occupying Afghanistan helps protect the west, as opposed to stoking dangerous Islamic anger worldwide.

So this is what is causing frost and stress inside NATO. The organisation is tied up in a massive, expensive and ill-defined mission in Afghanistan that many whisper is counter-productive in terms of the alliance aim of mutual defence. Every European military is facing financial problems as a public deficit financing crisis sweeps the continent. The only glue holding the Afghan mission together is loyalty to and support for the United States.

But what kind of mutual support organisation is NATO when members must make decades long commitments, at huge expense and some loss of life, to support the Unted States, but cannot make even a gesture to support Turkey when Turkey is attacked by a non-member?

Even the Eastern Europeans have not been backing the US line on the Israeli attack. The atmosphere in NATO on the issue has been very much the US against the rest, with the US attitude inside NATO described to me by a senior NATO officer as "amazingly arrogant - they don't seem to think it matters what anybody else thinks".

Therefore what is troubling the hearts and souls of non-Americans in NATO HQ is this fundamental question. Is NATO genuinely a mutual defence organisation, or is it just an instrument to carry out US foreign policy? With its unthinking defence of Israel and military occupation of Afghanistan, is US foreign policy really defending Europe, or is it making the World less safe by causing Islamic militancy?

I leave the last word to one of the senior NATO officers - who incidentally is not British:
"Nobody but the Americans doubts the US position on the Gaza attack is wrong and insensitve. But everyone already quietly thought the same about wider American policy. This incident has allowed people to start saying that now privately to each other."

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

[smiths]

harder questions than most offer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b06gRN_t ... r_embedded

[Elvis]

Quote:
literally 90 seconds before my segment was about to begin, the new cam and sound system I just acquired stopped working[...]

Greenwald

Ahh, okay--thanks! I hadn't thought of that fact that nowadays, remote TV commentators can use their own gear over the Internet. I imagined an offscreen camera crew.

[Sweejak]

by Stephen Zunes:

... apologists in Washington for Israel’s right-wing government are already repeating the Israeli line that the nonviolent activists were "terrorists" and that they had "weapons" they found on board, such as a wrench, a come-along winch, and other items commonly found on ships. The Israeli government has withdrawn their earlier claims that they had found pistols and other guns on board, but its U.S. supporters are still repeating this lie.

... Critics of the flotilla are partially correct in observing that the purpose of the voyage was not just to deliver badly needed aid, but to "provoke a confrontation." This, however, is part of the great tradition of nonviolent direct action. For example, civil rights activists in the 1960s were similarly criticized for provoking confrontation by sitting in at lunch counters, marching across Selma’s Edmund Pettus Bridge, and demonstrating in downtown Birmingham. It was only through such confrontations, revealing the brutality of the oppressor, that change was made.

... Perhaps a more revealing analogy would be this: Imagine how the Obama administration would have reacted if the attack on the vessels had been done by Iranians instead of the Israelis. Imagine if the Iranians had killed the passengers and crew, kidnapped hundreds of people on the ships, brought them to Iran, and held them incommunicado. It’s not likely that the White House would give the Iranians a free ride for such a blatant violation of international law. Nor would the media and Washington pundits be spewing out the Iranian account of events before the hostages even had a chance to tell their side of the story.

... the Obama administration refused to accept such wording. Instead, the statement simply condemned "those acts" that resulted in deaths, without naming Israel, implying that the victims on board the ships shared responsibility for getting killed when the Israelis engaged in an unprovoked attack on their ships in international waters. Indeed, when White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs was specifically asked whether the United States condemned Israeli conduct, he said that there was not enough information to make such a determination ... The Security Council president’s statement also called for "a credible, impartial, and transparent investigation." The United States, however, insisted that such an investigation should only be done by the Israeli government itself.

... the Obama administration is shielding those responsible for the murder, beatings, and kidnapping ...

more:
http://original.antiwar.com/zunes/2010/ ... violation/

[compared2what?]

Ed Koch on Neil Cavuto floating idea that this was the fault of Turkey, later on Barney Frank on Countdown saying same. Ok so imagine there were such a thing as a fairness doctrine. In this case we should have rebuttal from Turkish Americans, Palestinian Americans and actual real journalists and lets say ok someone from Turkey and maybe someone from Gaza....
They really do think we are hopelessly stupid. I can see the next headline

TERRORISTS ATTACK HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS WITH KNIVES AND PIPES

Israel in shock, minimises death toll by heroic sacrifice of men who jumped to the ship to try and talk peace to rabid drug fiend baby killing would be abortionist muslim terrorists found with plans to blow up Yankee stadium and ten pre schools in Kansas.
Thank god we have a free press to give us all the facts.........

Just to be clear, this:

(3) The proximate occasion for the provocation came from Turkey. That's so massively suspect in so many ways that I don't even know how to boil them down to the usual three or four 192-word sentences that send the entire board into a stupor in the luxurious style to which we've all long-since grown so accustomed.

is NOT my way of saying it's Turkey's "fault."

It's just a way of saying that if you wanted to create a set-up like the one I fear this is, no matter what side of the equation you were on, your very first choice for the role of seemingly-unallied-to-you proxy would be Turkey.

Pretty much your only choice, actually.

Interesting point. However, proximate occasion is a loose floatation device to throw to the proximate cause of fatalities in this situation, which is Israel, drowning in blood.

I agree. I don't actually see how what I'm suggesting conflicts with or otherwise contradicts that.

Since what I'm suggesting is that their reason for being characteristically homicidal with uncharacteristic carelessness -- by acting both in plain sight in the eyes of the world and in plain view of very credible, highly sympathetic witnesses whom they (very uncharacteristically) didn't bother planting a false flag on before killing every last one of, just to be on the safe side -- is that they want to precipitate a multi-national blood-bath of epic proportions. Which they believe they can win. Rightly or wrongly. It doesn't really matter, since they can definitely stay in the game long enough for there to be a multi-national bloodbath of epic proportions either way.

I could be wrong. I hope I am.

Perhaps they can trott out Jean-Louis Bruguiere to extrapolate the IHH connection to a Montreal terrorist cell. This way they can be at war with Canada without having to get anyone wet. One can only imagine Harper was glad to see the Netanyahu go. He wonders, perhaps...are we next?

Funny. I was very idly wondering much the same thing. Except that it was less like "next" and more like "somewhere millions of people down the line, though probably still ahead of Canada." It's hardly my most urgent concern, though. In fact, I wouldn't have even thought of mentioning it if Harper hadn't started it, to be honest. I mean, it was only just barely a stray thought as it was. If there'd been a sudden loud noise, it wouldn't have even been that.

[chiggerbit]

It just occurred to me to wonder what Sibel Edmonds has to say about Turkey's (and its American lobbyists') involvement in this.

[Searcher08]

It just occurred to me to wonder what Sibel Edmonds has to say about Turkey's (and its American lobbyists') involvement in this.

Hi Chig, I went to her site and she had a post from a couple of days ago, so I posted it.
S08

[Laodicean]

Kevin Neish safely out of Israel, witnessed horrors aboard Mavi Marmara

By rabble staff
June 3, 2010

We received the following media release from the family and support group of Canadian peace activist Kevin Neish. Kevin was aboard the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, and was bady beaten by the Israeli security forces.

An audio interview with Neish, shortly before he boarded the flotilla, is availabe here.

For immediate release - June 3, 2010
Contact Zoe Blunt
Steve Neish

Kevin Neish safely out of Israel, will return to Victoria soon

Victoria peace activist Kevin Neish reports he barely escaped with his life when Israeli armed forces attacked a humanitarian aid flotilla in international waters on Monday morning.

Neish was aboard the Mavi Marmara, the Turkish vessel that was stormed by Israeli commandos in a brutal raid on unarmed civilians bringing medical supplies, school supplies, and construction materials to Gaza.

He said he and other passengers had transferred from the Challenger II after it began taking on water in the Mediterranean on Friday.

Neish watched in horror as Israeli soldiers gunned down civilians from helicopters as the raid began, and he saw the bloody bodies of at least nine people killed on the Mavi Marmara. He flatly rejects allegations that people on the ship were armed or that they attacked the soldiers. A videotape produced by the IDF purports to show activists hitting the soldiers with sticks and stones, but its legitimacy is in question.

The Israelis kidnapped some 600 people bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, and held them in prison for two and a half days. Neish witnessed the Israelis savagely beating Turkish activists. He said he was "brutalized" by the officers, who left him and other passengers tied up for 25 hours. His arms are deeply bruised by the plastic handcuffs. His captors menaced him with assault rifles and attack dogs. and repeatedly threatened to kill him. They would not allow Neish or the other prisoners to sleep while they were in custody.

Neish was deported late Wednesday night and flown to Istanbul with the last of the prisoners. His captors kept most of his belongings, including his cell phone, identification, credit cards, and all his cash. The Israelis returned only his passport and a few items of clothing.

Calling from the Istanbul airport on Wednesday night, Neish said a crowd of 25,000 met the plane carrying the released prisoners and the bodies of the nine Turks killed by the Israelis He said he is considering staying in Turkey to attend the funerals of his former shipmates, and he has not finalized his plans to return to Victoria.

Advocates for an end to the three-year-long Israeli blockade of Gaza are calling on Canada to condemn Israel's kidnapping and murder of peace activists. They are demanding an end to the occupation of Gaza and renewed access to food, medical supplies, and the necessities of life for the people of Gaza. The blockade has starved and impoverished thousands of Palestinians in the occupied territory.

A demonstration is planned in Victoria this Saturday, June 5 at 11 am.

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/rabble- ... -mavi-marm

[Bruce Dazzling]