Habemus Papam! Pope Francis l

[RocketMan]

Yyyyep. Reality check time.

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/22/pope_fr ... socialflow

THE IMAGE OF Pope Francis is that he is a breath of fresh air, more progressive on social issues than his predecessor and a kinder, gentler pope. But when the facts are examined, you see that he is none of these things. There is an enormous disconnect between who the pope really is in terms of his policies and his public relations image, as crafted by the Vatican’s PR man, previously with Fox News. The current PR mission is all about reversing the incredible decline in fundraising under the last pope from the U.S. Catholic Church in particular. Pope Francis has made any number of statements that seem to indicate change and progress that are not reflected in policy. In fact, in the wake of such comments from Pope Francis, the Vatican often makes a point to explicitly state that no church policy has changed.

While the pope transmits a populist vibe—particularly about the economy— he is an old-school conservative who, despite his great PR, maintains nearly all of the socialpolicies of his predecessors and keeps up a hardline Vatican “cabinet.” He has done virtually nothing to change the policies of the church to match his more compassionate rhetoric. People excuse the pope, claiming that he doesn’t have much power to make changes, but this simply isn’t true. Further, it is ludicrous to suggest that a man who denies comprehensive reproductive health care (including all forms of birth control including condoms and abortion) and comprehensive family planning is a man who cares about the poor of this world. The bigotry of homophobia and sexism cloaked in religion are still bigotry and sexism. By giving to the church, American Catholics aren’t supporting “progress,” they are supporting oppression and in this way are complicit in the bigotry, sexism, and oppression of the church.

[DrEvil]

What a fucking tool.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... expression

Pope Francis: there are limits to freedom of expression

Pontiff defends freedom of speech en route to the Philippines but says ‘you cannot insult the faith of others’


Pope Francis has said there are limits to freedom of expression and that following the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris “one cannot make fun of faith”.

On a plane from Sri Lanka to the Philippines, the largest Catholic majority country in Asia, the pope said freedom of speech was a fundamental human right but “every religion has its dignity”.

Asked about the attack that killed 12 people at the offices of Charlie Hebdo – targeted because it had printed depictions of the prophet Muhammad – he said: “One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith.

“There is a limit. Every religion has its dignity … in freedom of expression there are limits.”

He gestured to Alberto Gasparri, who organises papal trips and was standing by his side, and added: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch. It’s normal. It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.”

Cautioning against provocation he said the right to liberty of expression came with the obligation to speak for “the common good”.

The pontiff also said he was convinced that global warming was “mostly” man-made and that man had “slapped nature in the face”. He expressed the hope that the upcoming Vatican encyclical – the most authoritative documents a pope can issue – on the environment, would encourage negotiators at the United Nations climate change conference in Paris in November to make courageous decisions to protect God’s creation.

Francis is due to meet survivors of typhoon Haiyan, which the Philippine government has said was an example of the extreme weather conditions caused by global warming.

“I don’t know if [human activity] is the only cause, but mostly, in great part, it is man who has slapped nature in the face,” he said. “We have in a sense taken over nature.”

Francis, who has been critical of a “culture of waste” since he became pope, said the mass cultivation of single crops and deforestation had been over-exploited.

“I think we have exploited nature too much,” he said. “Thanks be to God that today there are voices, so many people who are speaking out about it.”

Francis has thrown the Catholic church into the fight to combat climate change since becoming pope and has said that the Vatican’s encyclical on ecology would be released by June or July, in order to give people plenty of time to digest the material before the next round of climate change negotiations.

“The meetings in Peru were nothing much, I was disappointed,” he said. “There was a lack of courage. They stopped at a certain point. We hope that in Paris the representatives have more courage to go forward.”

Francis said his four-day trip to the Philippines would focus on the poor, the exploited and victims of injustice. He was greeted by ecstatic crowds when he arrived in Manila on Thursday after being met with flowers at the airport by two children from a shelter: 10-year-old Mark Angelo Balberos and nine-year-old Lanie Ortillo. As the wind flew off with his papal skullcap, known as a zuchetta, he hugged and kissed the children.

“I told him bienvenido (welcome), and he said yes, bienvenido,” Lanie said. She added: “While I was hugging him I prayed that he could help more children, not only the two of us.”

Before the start of the first papal visit to Asia’s largest Catholic nation in 20 years, Francis said: “The central nut of the message will be the poor, the poor who want to go forward, the poor who suffered from typhoon Haiyan and are continuing to suffer the consequences.”

His message will resonate in a country where poverty afflicts nearly a quarter of the 100 million people and where many Filipinos leave their families in search of jobs abroad. Social activists in Manila have urged Francis to be a champion of downtrodden Filipinos.

Before a makeshift altar in front of a statue of working man and national hero Andres Bonifacio, a large banner read: “Welcome Pope Francis! Hear the cry of the poor and oppressed. Stand with us for justice and peace.”

Roman Catholic priest the Rev Ben Alforque said poor Filipinos include landless peasants, underpaid workers, homeless children, indigenous tribes and political prisoners. “The church of the poor is in the heart of Pope Francis,” he said.

• This article was amended on 15 January 2015 to remove the assertion that the last round of climate change talks in Peru failed to reach an agreement. As we reported at the time, a plan to fight global warming was reached there, as a first step towards a deal due to be finalised in Paris.

[smiths]

so, why is he a tool?

because he thinks there are limits to freedom of speech?

[RocketMan]

Despite it being objectively good that Cuba is being eased out of its pariah status vis-a-vis the US, Francis's diplomacy can easily also been seen as a power play... Opening up the atheist, communist Cuba for the Catholic church, so strong is other Latin American countries. Cuba is officially atheist, right? Are there churches?

[DrEvil]

so, why is he a tool?

because he thinks there are limits to freedom of speech?

For this line: "you cannot insult the faith of others", which is pretty much the same reasoning the fucktards who shot up Charlie Hebdo was using (officially, at least).

Blasphemy shouldn't be banned, it should be encouraged.

[DrEvil]

Despite it being objectively good that Cuba is being eased out of its pariah status vis-a-vis the US, Francis's diplomacy can easily also been seen as a power play... Opening up the atheist, communist Cuba for the Catholic church, so strong is other Latin American countries. Cuba is officially atheist, right? Are there churches?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Cuba

[slimmouse]

quoting the pope....‘you cannot insult the faith of others’

As the eternal optimist, I might percieve this comment as a tipping wink towards people who's faiths were once systematically and mercilessly destroyed by the very institution he now speaks on behalf of.

If he would have just added intelligence to the list of ""exclusive" human qualities that you should no longer be insulting, the shit might really have hit the fan.

[DrEvil]

Nah, he's just being a religious nut. I like this pope way better than the last one, but a polished, delusional turd is still a delusional turd.

[slimmouse]

Nah, he's just being a religious nut. I like this pope way better than the last one, but a polished, delusional turd is still a delusional turd.

You have a fantastic point there, Doc.

So heres the question. Kindly remember that I asked it first.

How do we make the world a little less delusionally-turdish ?

[DrEvil]

By spending as much as we do on killing children on educating them instead, and teaching them to think for themselves and not respect authority simply for the sake of respecting authority.

[Searcher08]

Nah, he's just being a religious nut. I like this pope way better than the last one, but a polished, delusional turd is still a delusional turd.

For me the key thing about him is around money flows - and he has brought in very "real deal" auditors (ie ones who have been shot at, threatened etc during previous engagements and did not bow) in order to root out the Vatican Bank corruption and nepotism. From 'friends of friends', it is currently causing an absolute shitstorm there at the moment.

Mind you, I think the exactly think exactly the same same about that dickhead fuckwit Shermer compared to dickhead fuckwit Randi. A pseudoskeptic douchebag is still a pseudoskeptic douchebag.

[smiths]

blasphemy for blaspemy's sake is for 12 year olds

interfaith dialogue to overcome hatred does not begin by everyone sitting round insulting each others faith as delusional

if you you think you have a rational alternative you yourself are delusional

science explains mechanics, it doesn't explain beginnings or endings

atheism is unprovable for the same reasons as religion

the big bang is a religious tale - something out of nothing, the universe is almost certainly one in a multiverse, and the most likely explanation for it all is that it is infinite and we, as finite and insignificant beings, will never be able to comprehend it

recognising that some people have beliefs that you may not agree with and respecting them as people first is the way forward

the Pope went against the global sheep movement by pointing out that attacking others' faith is not in the spirit of building a better world

isnt that what you all want?

[slimmouse]

By spending as much as we do on killing children on educating them instead, and teaching them to think for themselves and not respect authority simply for the sake of respecting authority.

Thanks for that doc. You indeed have a good point here too.

Finicky semantics I know, but I might have used the term expanding awareness instead of educating.

I suggest that the state of our current education is probably one of the reasons why so many of us are delusionally turdish.

FWIW, I just think that the latest Pope, at least on the face of it, is, by his deeds attempting to rid the world of at least One delusional turd. And a big one at that

[Joe Hillshoist]

the big bang is a religious tale - something out of nothing, the universe is almost certainly one in a multiverse, and the most likely explanation for it all is that it is infinite and we, as finite and insignificant beings, will never be able to comprehend it

recognising that some people have beliefs that you may not agree with and respecting them as people first is the way forward

the Pope went against the global sheep movement by pointing out that attacking others' faith is not in the spirit of building a better world

isnt that what you all want?

I dunno if the Big bang is simply a religious tale. There is evidence to support the idea/theory that it actually happened. Unless you think all science is bullshit, but I know that isn't what you're saying.

But its also a limiting point as far as measuring things goes. Its very difficult to say things about what happened before the big bang because its a point where measurement fails. All cultures with religions seem to locate their creator being(s) at the creation point, ie before the big bang,or beside it or whatever. So naturally they are avoiding facing measurement ... or would be if they'd thought up their creator myths in the last hundred or so years. Which they didn't.

recognising that some people have beliefs that you may not agree with and respecting them as people first is the way forward

The problem i have with rationalist fundamentalists hating on religion isn't that they accuse it of not respecting or recognising the beliefs of others. Ultimately. Religions have shown they will brutally repress ideas they don't believe in. Its that they locate the problem in the religion itself. Instead of the lack of respect for others.

It leads to the same narrow minded thinking that plagues religious fundamentalists. I spose the obvious conclusion is that fundmentalist thinking itself is the problem.

Not religion.

I totally agree that interfaith dialogue is one example when religions do something right. They probably should be encouraged to keep it up.

[divideandconquer]

This pope is too good to be true. In April, Pope Francis will supposedly issue an encyclical on climate change and human ecology Then he will hold a summit of all religions in an effort to combine the religious authority of the Church with the political authority of the United Nations. This merger of politics and religion beneath the banner of the United Nations is very suspicious to me. Perhaps this union of politics and religion is a catalyst for global government.