James Foley "beheading" video. For real ...??

[BOOGIE66]

There must be a name for the mind state that can be described as -

"an increasing disbelief in the external reality experienced, directly at odds with the internal-self's concept of reality"

I think I have it, whatever it's called.

(pre)cognitive dissonance ??

[Morty]

There must be a name for the mind state that can be described as -

"an increasing disbelief in the external reality experienced, directly at odds with the internal-self's concept of reality"

I think I have it, whatever it's called.

(pre)cognitive dissonance ??

"Derealization" comes close, except it's supposed to be a pathological condition where the sufferer incorrectly perceives that the outside world is false.

[Sounder]

stefano wrote:

Not least because I can't think why the people behind those videos would refrain from killing them.

Mac wrote...
Lots of reasons come to mind. For example:

1. Because both Foley and Sotloff worked for the filmmakers?

2. Because "the people behind those videos", being Americans, felt squeamish about actually killing Americans?

3. Because actually killing them would get the filmmakers into even bigger trouble if it ever came out?

4. Because the filmmakers' employers didn't want them to waste valuable intelligence resources?

5. Because they had a gentleman's agreement?

6. Because the families might have objected noisily to a real beheading, as opposed to a faked one?

Et cetera.

This doesn't mean I don't think there's something weird (especially in light of Foley's CV) - I'm perfectly willing to entertain the idea that US intelligence elements allowed or encouraged or directed the videos to be made.

Why not that they actually made them themselves? Why is this such a stretch?

Fakers that are trying to make an enemy look bad would need to kill one of their own to be effective. Now Zionists might kill three young Jewish teens that carried anti-colonization beliefs, blame it on Hamas and proceed to bomb the shit out of large civilian areas, they no doubt loved the irony, but to kill a clear asset, not so likely.

Cass must be laughing his ass off.

[Tyler Rabbit]

Watched the video and read the whole thread.. a few random thoughts.

Definitely less gruesome than the Berg video.

I can't really point to things in the video as being "proof" of its authenticity or lack thereof because yes CGI etc is always a possibility, but things like "the wind was blowing, and then it wasn't" could have a million other explanations. Life is weird and random and we're only seeing a quick snapshot. For example:

One possible reason the journalists were so calm is that there could have been many "practice" runs. For all we know they had these guys go through the same motions 100s of times.. Would certainly be a means of total spirit domination to make someone constantly think they're about to die..

There's no way I, or any of us, can say with absolute certainty that it's real or fake based on the video itself, so we're left with drawing our own assumptions based on personal beliefs and a bit of logic. Personally I believe there are people out there who are very willing to commit atrocities for various political and religious reasons. Am guessing we can all agree on that. I think it comes down to who is committing the atrocity in question and if it falls under the category of violence or deception (or both).

If I play out various scenarios (ie the journalists are still alive), the problem with many of them is that they conclude with ISIS being fully owned and operated by various US agencies, and this requires too many leaps of faith and perhaps an over-estimation of US power/importance in the region. So I'm left with the belief that ISIS is likely an actual organization comprised of people who are violent and don't care for western ideology. (Difficult to imagine them all being actors or US special ops in disguise.) Who is funding them etc is another question- but I do believe they're "real." So from there it isn't much of a stretch to assume that they would be happy to do something like this. If they didn't, wouldn't it be more to their advantage to expose the conspiracy rather than take credit for the murders?

Will it be used as justification for more military spending and violence? Of course- but as has been pointed out, the US govt doesn't need justification to the point of staging something like this. People are so complacent, that if Obama announced a Syria invasion for little to no reason, it would still happen.

So for me it comes down to this: there's a much greater likelyhood that it's real than fake- but ultimately who knows.

Re: the name ISIS. Just a thought, but it's interesting that the name was changed to IS. Once something IS, it's nearly impossible to make it ISn't...

[Hunter]

Notice in the video how Sotloff just kicks his legs and feet out making it easy for the "executioner" to lay him down, and no blood at all when that happens so it wasnt like he was dead. I cannot imagine not kicking and screaming at the point when the knife is put to the neck, it just doesnt jive with the reality of how any person would react to that situation.

[Hunter]

IF this is all intell op then the name Islamic State makes good sense, it is the perfect name for the further demonization of Islam because it plays on everyone's fears, both left and right, that Muslims dont want to just practice religion and be left alone, they want to set up a Islamic State and force us all to live under Sharia.

[MacCruiskeen]

Notice in the video how Sotloff just kicks his legs and feet out making it easy for the "executioner" to lay him down, and no blood at all when that happens so it wasnt like he was dead. I cannot imagine not kicking and screaming at the point when the knife is put to the neck, it just doesnt jive with the reality of how any person would react to that situation.

Yes. But when you say "kicks his legs and feet out", even that makes it sound much more dramatic than it is. Very calmly and smoothly, he moves from position to another -- from kneeling on two legs to kneeling on one, with the other foot out front to support him. Like a footballer's pose. And all the while, that terrible actor "Jihadi John" is sawing away at his neck. Not a trace of blood, not the slightest sound of distress, not the mildest struggle to escape what must (had the "sawing" been real) have been excruciating pain.

We are not supposed to notice. We are not supposed to examine these things with any kind of adult critical awareness. We are not expected to see what we see, or remember anything beyond the last news cycle, or place anything whatsoever in any kind of a context. We are expected to be obedient.



Enemies are required. The ongoing "economic crisis" is going to solved nicely by some very big wars.

[MacCruiskeen]

^^News just in (dpa, 06.09.2014, 16:17 CET, original in German below):

During a battle against the IS-militia, the Iraqi Air Force hit the Premature Births Unit of a hospital. Eighteen people were killed, including eight babies, according to the Kurdish news organisation Bas News. In the course of the attack, in the village of Al Havidja, 16 other people were injured. The children's ward was said to have been completely destroyed. Local people were trying to retrieve the casualties and bring them to another hospital, said the news agency.

Beim Kampf gegen die IS-Miliz traf die irakische Luftwaffe unterdessen die Frühgeborenenstation eines Krankenhauses. 18 Menschen seien dabei getötet worden, darunter acht Babys, meldete die kurdische Nachrichtenagentur Bas News. Bei der Attacke in dem Ort Al-Hawidscha seien 16 weitere Menschen verletzt worden. Die Kinderstation wurde demnach völlig zerstört. Einwohner versuchten, die Verletzten zu bergen und in andere Krankenhäuser zu bringen, hieß es weiter.

http://www.gmx.net/themen/nachrichten/a ... #.A1000146

Babies or adults, it would be in bad taste to wonder whether any of the 18 dead were decapitated. You can't be squeamish when you're fighting barbarians.

[Tyler Rabbit]

Notice in the video how Sotloff just kicks his legs and feet out making it easy for the "executioner" to lay him down, and no blood at all when that happens so it wasnt like he was dead. I cannot imagine not kicking and screaming at the point when the knife is put to the neck, it just doesnt jive with the reality of how any person would react to that situation.

Guess I'd say if it were fake, and designed to fool millions of people, you'd think they would have directed the dude to do a better acting job...

[Nordic]

No problem! Glad you found it! Looks about the same as the first one, same set up, black out etc huh?

Still havent had a chance to actually view it. Kids always around, busy, etc. hopefully tonight.

[82_28]

Notice in the video how Sotloff just kicks his legs and feet out making it easy for the "executioner" to lay him down, and no blood at all when that happens so it wasnt like he was dead. I cannot imagine not kicking and screaming at the point when the knife is put to the neck, it just doesnt jive with the reality of how any person would react to that situation.

Guess I'd say if it were fake, and designed to fool millions of people, you'd think they would have directed the dude to do a better acting job...

I would say that the point of it (if it is fake) was purposely meant to look fake so that it could be speculated over. I still haven't "watched it" and tried this morning but said fuck it. I've heard enough.

#1 You don't start, fund, stoke any kind of violence -- I don't give a fuck who you are. All entities are entitled to come and go.

#2 You don't saw people's heads off if you care about your cause.

#3 You don't subject young people who are curious about the world they have been born into with such "mandatory" imagery if indeed it is a "cause".

Just to name a few.

I remember when I was young and "Unsolved Mysteries" came out. I would watch that shit with my parents as it was "entertaining" and be totally scared on a regular basis of going upstairs to my room or basement at night. The psychology of this shit has been fully vetted. Since I don't really care about "terrorism" in the sense that something a world away could possibly affect me for the given "reasons", I live in zero fear of anything other than my job. I live more in disgust that it has come to this. I wish someone on the higher rungs of these matters would come out and say the same. It will never happen.

Here's one morbid thing that I've wondered for over a decade of when it would happen. A reporter getting his/her brains blown out on live TV. While this example is funny and I enjoy the on the spot prank:



It could easily be scaled to a horrific live attack which could put our common concsiousness into another free fall until yet another answer is given.

[Hunter]

Notice in the video how Sotloff just kicks his legs and feet out making it easy for the "executioner" to lay him down, and no blood at all when that happens so it wasnt like he was dead. I cannot imagine not kicking and screaming at the point when the knife is put to the neck, it just doesnt jive with the reality of how any person would react to that situation.

Guess I'd say if it were fake, and designed to fool millions of people, you'd think they would have directed the dude to do a better acting job...

Yea no idea if it is fake or not but it doesnt look right. I have no doubt that there are crazy religious extremists willing to do crap like this but instead of hurting US foreign policy these groups always do things in such a timely manner that it always helps and benefits our needs.

[justdrew]

it is IMPOSSIBLE to saw into a persons neck and not have massive blood flow

[stickdog99]

So from there it isn't much of a stretch to assume that they would be happy to do something like this. If they didn't, wouldn't it be more to their advantage to expose the conspiracy rather than take credit for the murders?

How are they supposed to "expose" the conspiracy?

[stickdog99]

Notice in the video how Sotloff just kicks his legs and feet out making it easy for the "executioner" to lay him down, and no blood at all when that happens so it wasnt like he was dead. I cannot imagine not kicking and screaming at the point when the knife is put to the neck, it just doesnt jive with the reality of how any person would react to that situation.

Guess I'd say if it were fake, and designed to fool millions of people, you'd think they would have directed the dude to do a better acting job...

I tend to interpret it as a test of just how unquestioningly outraged we all will become over a Plan 9 From Outer Space budget video if it is given even semi-official sanction. A test the vast majority of us seem to be passing with flying colors.