Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:54 am

Vanlose Kid, please come out from behind your wall of cut-and-paste blah, blah, blah written by whoever, to explain your own point of view, and the moral and factual basis for it in your own words.

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that the Brotherhood regime should be imposed by force on the Egyptian people against their express will? Because behind all the progressive catch-words, you are essentially aligning yourself with what is undeniably the most reactionary, fascist, right-wing dictatorship Egypt has ever seen; far more oppressive and violent, corrupt and hateful than the Mubarak regime was. Is that what you want for us?

Are you suggesting that the Egyptian people could have liberated themselves from this armed terrorist gang without the help of the police and army? How?

On what basis are you implying that the army is currently running Egypt rather than the civilian government that actually is? Is it just one of those claims that requires no evidence to back it up?

What, if anything, will convince you that you are wrong?

Finally, given how you continue to ignore the facts, how relevant do you think your opinion is?
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby coffin_dodger » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:35 am

Hey Alice - although nothing like as magnitudinous as the changes that are occuring in your country, there are changes happening in the West too (NSA, Manning, Snowden) - Broadly speaking, I see this polarizing public opinion into three probable camps:

- those that are admitting to themselves that 'things just ain't right any more' who understand and (with varying degrees of trepidation) accept that massive changes are required to the status quo - a real upheaval is ahead

and

- those that are admitting to themselves that 'things just ain't right any more', but are fearful of the prospect of the change required, who look to msm and fringe 'safer' status quo narratives to quieten their fears. They consider 'tweaks' to the current paradigm will be sufficient. The financial collapse of '08 and bail-outs are a prime example of the justifications for this group.

and

- those who are too busy struggling to live their own lives to engage, or are disinterested

The first type are in the tiny minority, but their ideas are starting to ring bells with some in type 2. The vast majority are in types 2 and 3. Unlike your people, the 'non-elite' of the West haven't reached the point of nothing to lose yet. Type 2 + 3 will eventually be forced to engage, although which way they will flock is open to debate.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby American Dream » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:12 am

http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/97 ... y-of-pacts

Brothers and Officers: A History of Pacts

Jan 25 2013

by Wael Eskandar

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[Former Defense Minister Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, left, receives a high medal from Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi at the Presidential Palace in Cairo, Egypt, 14 August 2012. Egypt's president has given awards to the nation's two top military commanders, two days after he ordered their retirement. Photo Source: AP]

The politics of the past two years have generated widespread interest in the historical relationship between the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) and Egypt’s wielders of power, especially at a time when observers are eager to understand the prospects for accommodation (or adversity) between the MB and traditional bureaucratic powers inside the Egyptian state, such as the military establishment.

For instance, the circumstances surrounding the election of President Mohamed Morsi in June 2012 have raised numerous questions about the MB’s relationship with Egypt’s military rulers. During the lead-up to the announcement of the election results, it seemed that the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) was bargaining with the Brotherhood over the future of the country. While official results were due on 20 June, their announcement was postponed to 24 June with little transparency on why the official vote count was being withheld and what was happening behind the scenes.

MB statements at the time suggested that the SCAF was holding the results hostage until the group accepts the continuation of military leaders’ reserved powers as per the constitutional annex that SCAF had issued on 17 June 2012 shortly before the end of voting. Before it was annulled last August by President Morsi, the annex to the Constitutional Declaration set limitations on presidential authority and granted the SCAF legislative powers in light of the dissolution of parliament in mid-June. In its official response that same month, the MB vowed to fight for presidential powers and called on its supporters to occupy Tahrir Square in protest of SCAF’s constitutional annex. Eventually, official results were released declaring Morsi’s victory. The MB’s nominee ended up swearing the oath to the Supreme Constitutional Court, thus implicitly recognizing the dissolution of parliament and the SCAF-sponsored constitutional framework that the Brotherhood supposedly rejected. Morsi became Egypt’s first elected president after the January 25 Revolution, yet one question remains lurking in the background: at what price?

The lead-up to Morsi’s election is by no means the first time observers have been left to speculate about underhanded deals between the Brotherhood and Egyptian authorities. Since the days of the monarchy, the relationship between the MB and Egypt's power wielders has been subject to debate and controversy. While the MB has conventionally been known as a strong oppositionist voice that has been subjected to the wrath of successive Egyptian rulers in the form of marginalization and repression, others argue that the story is much more complicated.

Since the toppling of Mubarak, many have speculated about whether covert pacts and understandings between the Muslim Brotherhood and the SCAF have been in place, and if so, what did they entail? Complicating any investigations of such allegations is a political environment in which the Brotherhood and its adversaries have constantly been exchanging politically motivated accusations of collaboration with the country’s military leaders. The historical context and the events of the past year, however, are quite revealing.

Little has changed about the opaqueness with which decisions are taken inside the MB’s organization, according to Khalil al-Anani, scholar of Middle East Politics at School of Government and International Affairs at Durham University. Anani writes, “Not surprisingly, they are involved in negotiating, compromising, and brokering the future of the country behind the scene.”

Many reports have claimed that during the turmoil of the eighteen-day uprising in February 2011, members of the MB’s Guidance Bureau met secretly with then-Vice President Omar Suleiman, reportedly to work out an agreement that would clear out Tahrir Square of protesters calling for the fall of the Hosni Mubarak regime. Details about this meeting were disclosed by MB spokesman Mahmoud Ghozlan as well as Brotherhood member Haitham Abu-Khalil, who would later leave the group, allegedly in protest of the MB’s meeting with Suleiman. Mohamed Habib, who served as an advisor to the General Guide until 2010, identified the Brotherhood's negotiators as Saad al-Katatny, the former speaker of the house, and would-be President Mohamed Morsi. Brotherhood leaders were asked by Suleiman to withdraw from Tahrir, Habib explains, in exchange for the release of prominent MB figures Khairat El-Shater and Hassan Malek. The alleged deal eventually fell through when the MB's youth refused to evacuate the square. El-Shater would later be released on 2 March 2011 and it remains unclear whether or not his release was part of a similar deal with the SCAF.


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[Muslim Brotherhood MP Abdel Fattah Eid in a conversation in parliament with Mahmoud Mohy Al-Din, minister of investment under Hosni Mubarak. Photo from wikimedia commons]

Following Mubarak’s ouster, Egypt’s military leaders made a host of gestures toward the majority of Islamist movements in the country. For instance, SCAF released Aboud and Tarek El Zomor of the Islamic Jihad group who had been convicted of involvement in the assassination of Egyptian president Anwar al-Sadat.

Shortly after Mubarak stepped down, SCAF appointed Islamist-leaning figures, like Tarek al-Bishri and MB member Sobhi Saleh, to serve on the committee tasked with preparing the constitutional amendments. The amendments were later ratified in a national referendum on 19 March 2011.

Deepening the perception that the Brotherhood and the SCAF were joined by some kind of agreement, the MB ceased its participation in contentious public protests after the toppling of Mubarak. The Brotherhood, moreover, praised and defended the performance of Egypt’s military rulers, despite the continued prevalence of repressive practices of which MB activists were victims in the past, including military trials of civilians. The group’s support for the military evoked images of the Brotherhood’s pro-King Farouk demonstrations, which it organized in 1937 in order to counter the Al-Wafd Party’s demonstrations supporting El-Nahas against the Palace.

Articulating this widespread perception at the time, Egyptian novelist and revolutionary writer, Alaa Al-Aswany wrote, “Why did they [the Muslim Brotherhood] make an alliance with Ismail Sidki, 'the butcher of the people', and support King Farouk, shouting 'God is with the king'? Why did they support [former President Gamal] Abdel Nasser when he put an end to the democratic experiment and abolished political parties, while their own organization was exempted from the abolition? Why did their leader say in 2005 that he supported Hosni Mubarak?”

History was repeating itself, or at least so it seemed from the perspective of many members of Egypt’s non-Islamist political community.

The Brothers and the Officers After Mubarak

In the immediate aftermath of Mubarak’s toppling, the MB, along with other Islamist movements and figures, took an active role in using religious rhetoric to build public support for the SCAF-sponsored constitutional amendments. Meanwhile, the Brotherhood boycotted almost all revolutionary protests, such as those demanding retribution for individuals killed by security forces during the 2011 uprising, an end to military trials of civilians, and the bringing to justice members of the former regime suspected of wrong-doing.

Besides turning a blind eye to the illegal status of the MB, SCAF permitted the group, as well as Salafist movements, to form political parties under dubious legal circumstances, since the political party law bars the formation of parties based on religion.

On its part, the Brotherhood boycotted the 8 July 2011 sit-in. The three-week sit-in called for the purging of the judiciary and the bringing to justice of Mubarak and those responsible for killing protesters during the 2011 eighteen-day uprising. After criticizing the July sit-in, the Brotherhood later called for mass protests on 28 July under the banner, “The Friday of Unity.” The protests were quickly dubbed by observers “Friday of Kandahar,” because they were dominated by Islamist groups and their followers, who called for an Islamic state and support for the army.

In November 2011, then-Deputy Prime Minister Ali al-Selmi, presumably on behalf of SCAF, proposed to political parties a document containing principles that would have governed the drafting of a new constitution for Egypt. One draft of the controversial document, which came to be known as al-Selmi document, granted the military a privileged position of power and rendered it above parliamentary accountability and oversight. The Brotherhood called for public protests on 18 November 2011 in rejection of al-Selmi document on grounds that it robbed the prospective constitution-writing assembly of its powers. Ironically, central elements of al-Selmi document, such as those setting the military’s budget and activities above the reach of conventional parliamentary oversight and accountability, eventually made their way to the MB-sponsored constitution that was ratified in a national referendum in December 2012.


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[Then-Interior Minister Mohammed Ibrahim talks at the Egyptian Parliament on 7 February 2012. Ibrahim denied that police had fired birdshots at protesters during deadly clashes between security and demonstrators. At top the speaker of Parliament Saad Al Katatni. Photo Source: AP]

Despite the MB’s initial anti-SCAF posture in November 2011, as security forces began attacking unarmed protesters around the Ministry of Interior building in the infamous Mohamed Mahmoud battles of 19-24 November 2011, the Brotherhood chose not to support protesters. As clashes ensued in Cairo and elsewhere, forty-one people died and over one thousand were injured. Meanwhile, the Brotherhood skirted serious criticism of the SCAF, and pushed forward its election campaign in preparation for the beginning of voting on 27 November.

Throughout the course of the People’s Assembly elections, which lasted until mid-January 2012, the MB refrained from actively opposing a host of abuses that were taking place under the auspices of military leaders, most notably during the period between 16 and 19 December 2012. At the time, security forces used deadly violence against protesters in an attempt to force an end to an anti-SCAF sit-in near the cabinet building. Shortly, thereafter, news reports circulated with remarks by a Brotherhood spokesperson stating that the group is willing to support a “safe-exit” for military leaders in the future.

In late December, an MB member filed a lawsuit against three members of the Revolutionary Socialists after they had criticized SCAF in a public lecture. The lawsuit alleged that they were trying to incite chaos throughout the country.

By the end of election season, the MB-led coalition became the largest bloc in the People’s Assembly, the parliament’s lower chamber, winning more than forty-five percent of the seats that were up for grabs.

In early January 2012, protests broke out demanding that the military hand power over to the newly elected People’s Assembly, the only democratically elected, representative body in the country. In response, the MB rejected any early handover of power and affirmed its commitment to the SCAF sponsored timetable, which had set 30 June 2012 as the deadline for an “end” to military rule.

The MB also undermined the efforts of many revolutionary activists and figures who tried to use the first anniversary of 25 January 2011 to launch a second wave of the revolution and build support for a swift end to military rule. The MB spoke out against such efforts, describing them as a plot to spread chaos throughout the country. Meanwhile, the Brotherhood turned the 25 January 2012 public rallies into festive “celebrations” in order to counter subversive voices that sought to promote opposition against the SCAF at these gatherings. Days later, in an unprecedented move, MB activists stood in for Central Security Forces (CSF) troops to shield the parliament building, where MPs were convening, from protesters and marchers who were trying to voice their grievances to their newly-elected legislators.

The MB once again supported SCAF and its sponsored government following the massacring of seventy-four people in Port Said Stadium after a soccer match held on 1 February 2012 without any intervention on the part of police forces tasked with securing the game. Subsequently, the MB bloc in parliament defended the government while security forces were attacking demonstrators who had gathered around the Ministry of Interior building to protest what they viewed as criminal negligence of police personnel present at the game. People’s Assembly speaker Saad al-Katatny reiterated the government’s claims that no birdshot pellets were being fired at the protesters, while some Brotherhood MPs claimed the protesters were infiltrated by hired thugs. This came at a time when overwhelming video evidence and eyewitness testimony proved otherwise.

The Brothers and the Wielders of Power in History

While some MB positions after the 2011 uprising could be construed merely as alignment with the SCAF, there is a widespread perception that the group’s actions were driven by covert agreements with Egypt’s military rulers.

In the past, the MB had not managed to make substantive political gains, such as winning seats in parliament, without the regime’s consent or some sort of understanding with the wielders of power. The MB’s election agreements with centers of power date back to as early as 1942, when the Brothers and Al-Wafd struck a deal involving electoral concessions and social reforms. Richard P. Mitchell describes the agreement in his book The Society of the Muslim Brothers:

“[Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-]Banna declared himself a candidate for the district of Ismai`iliyya, the birthplace of his movement, but no sooner had he done so than [Wafdist leader and Prime Minister at the time Mostafa al-] Nahhas summoned him and called upon him to withdraw. Without much debate, he consented, but ‘at a price’ which included (1) freedom for the movement to resume full scale operations; and (2) a promise of government action against the sale of alcohol and against prostitution. [Al]-Nahhas agreed, and very shortly ordered restrictions on the sale of liquor at certain times of every day, during Ramadan and on religious holidays. Similarly, he took steps to make prostitution illegal and immediately closed down some of the brothels. He also permitted the resumption of some of the activities of the Society, including the issue of some of its publications and the holding of meetings. The issue of elections thus muted, in March [al-]Banna pledged his support to the Wafdist Government” (p. 27).

Similarly, in 1950, according to Mitchell (pp.80-82), MB leaders promised electoral support for Al Wafd party in exchange for the release of Brotherhood prisoners and resumption of their activities.

Recently uncovered evidence indicates that the MB showed a great deal of pragmatism in their willingness to cooperate with Western powers during World War II, including Germany and Britain. For example, according to a document dated 18 August 1939 published by Al-Ahram newspaper on 30 December 2006, the MB received a sum of 2000 LE to organize pro-Nazi protests. Specifically, a letter by Wilhelm Stellbogen, director of the German News Bureau in Cairo and a German military intelligence officer stated that the Muslim Brotherhood were asking for more money than what was agreed to initially to organize the protests.

In his book Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam, British journalist Mark Curtis claims that the British government had started financing the MB by 1942. Curtis writes, “In December 1951, the files show that British officials were trying to arrange a direct meeting with [then MB Guide Hassan al-]Hodeibi. Several meetings were held with one of his advisers, one Farkhani Bey, about whom little is known, although he was apparently not himself a member of the Brotherhood. The indications from the declassified British files are that Brotherhood leaders, despite their public calls for attacks on the British, were perfectly prepared to meet them in private.”


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[Individuals attack the Cairo headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood on 27 October 1954 after putting it to the torch in retaliation against an attempted assassination of Gamal Abdel Nasser in Alexandria. Photo Source: AP]

In the immediate aftermath of the 1952 “Revolution,” the MB and the Free Officers Movement maintained cordial ties. The MB supported the revolution and received preferential treatment from Egypt’s new military rulers. For example, the Muslim Brotherhood was the only group that was not subject to the decision to disband all political parties in January 1953. It was not long after, however, that the MB quickly clashed with Gamal Abdel Nasser, who accused the group of attempting to assassinate him in 1954. The group was banned and thousands of its members were arrested. Brotherhood activists and leaders suffered greatly under Nasser’s rule, being subject to repressive tactics, imprisonment, torture, and, in some cases, execution.

While Nasser’s reign was one of repression and marginalization for the Brotherhood, Sadat’s rule witnessed a noticeable improvement in relations between the MB and Egyptian authorities. As Sadat shifted the orientation of the Egyptian economy toward greater liberalization and free markets, he opened political space for Islamist movements as means for undermining leftist opposition and Nasser’s sympathizers, especially inside college campuses. In 1971, Sadat began releasing MB members and the group was allowed resume its activities and to publish a monthly magazine, al-Da’wa.

During this same period, the regime supported the formation of Islamist student groups inside public universities as a means of countering leftist student activists who opposed Sadat’s economic liberalization measures and indecisive foreign policies toward the United States and Israel. The Brotherhood benefited greatly from the regime’s pro-Islamist posture, and many believe that it was in this context that a new generation of MB activists emerged on the political scene.

In the 1980s the MB were further incorporated into Egyptian political life. Under the early phases of Mubarak’s rule, the Brotherhood was allowed to contest elections through a variety of political alliances with licensed opposition parties. Through its alliance with Al-Wafd Party, the Brothers won eight seats in parliament in the 1984 elections, and thirty-seven seats in 1987 through its alliance with the Socialist Labor Party.

In 1991, the relationship between the Brotherhood and the Mubarak regime came under significant strain when Egyptian authorities raided Salsabel, a computer information systems company. The raid allegedly uncovered information on a Muslim Brotherhood scheme to topple the regime. A large number of MB members were arrested and prominent MB leaders faced military prosecution, including Khairat al-Shater and Hassan Malek. The charges were dropped and the case was closed but the incident marked a new wave of repression against the MB, which was effectively shut out of parliament in 1995 in legislative elections marked by state-sponsored violence and fraud.

Strains on the MB eased off by 2000, when the group managed to secure a modest, but visible representation of seventeen members in parliament. A few years later, international pressures for democratization, particularly by the George W. Bush administration, prompted greater space for oppositionist politics in Egypt. During the same period, protest movements like Kifaya enhanced and amplified domestic pressures for political reforms.


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[Muslim Brotherhood leaders Mustafa Mashhour, right, and Mamoun el-Hodeiby, left, walk during the funeral of Brotherhood General Guide Mohammed Hamed Abul Nasr. 20 January 1996. Photo Source: AP]

In a move that was not unprecedented in Egypt’s modern political history, the regime resorted to the MB in order to undermine the secular opposition. At a time when opposition movements were attempting to forge broad electoral alliances to cohesively counteract the former ruling National Democratic Party (NDP)’s dominance in parliament, the MB struck an election deal with State Security and the NDP in 2005. Leaked documents uncovered by protesters who raided State Security offices in March 2011 show that the MB, through prominent figures like Al-Shater and Mohamed Morsi, coordinated its 2005 electoral plans with the NDP. Then-MB General Guide Mahdi Akef acknowledged that such meetings occurred, though he refused to characterize MB’s contacts with security officials in the lead-up to the 2005 vote as a “deal.” In response to allegations by former presidential candidate Ahmed Shafiq that the Brotherhood engaged in underhanded bargains with the Mubarak regime, the MB released a statement in June 2012 acknowledging that they had met with regime representatives in 2005, but refused their offer to strike a deal. Former MB leader Mohamed Habib, on the other hand, admitted that a deal did take place allowing the group to field 161 candidates. Abdel Hamid El Ghazali, the former general guide advisor confirmed that a deal took place, but claims that the regime eventually abrogated it.

As one situates allegations of SCAF-MB cooperation in this historical context, it becomes rather difficult to dismiss the likelihood that deals between the two sides took place, as tentative as the evidence remains so far. In an article dated 15 January 2012, Al-Dostor Al-Asli newspaper leaked the terms of an alleged deal between the SCAF and the Brotherhood whereby the MB would guarantee safe exit of SCAF personnel, and support a presidential candidate acceptable to the military and the Brotherhood, in return for sharing power in government. While these allegations emerged at a time when the MB had gone through great lengths to defend SCAF’s performance, their accuracy is difficult to establish.

Analysts are hesitant to describe MB-military understandings as a “deal” since evidence so far has proven to be circumstantial. Early in January 2012 Ashraf El Sherif, a political science professor in the American University in Cairo, told Jadaliyya, “I believe there is a path of joint understandings and bargaining between the MB and the SCAF.”

“[The] MB accepted the SCAF conditions: a system whereby the 'deep state' of the military and its security institutions will retain control over the key issues: foreign policy, strategic decisions, top economic policies and interests while the MB will be given the services ministers,” said El Sherif.

Numerous members of the Muslim Brotherhood have publicly denied that they had forged pacts or agreements with SCAF. However, the politics and statements surrounding the rifts between the Muslim Brotherhood and SCAF during the first half of 2012 suggest that earlier “promises” between the two sides may have been broken.

For example, the recurrently shifting positions of the MB over the SCAF-appointed El-Ganzouri government and whether or not it should resign are quite revealing. Until the spring of 2012, there were minor quibbles between SCAF and MB over the fact that Egypt’s military rulers had refused to allow the MB-dominated majority in parliament to form a government. The tensions, however, were subtle until 25 March 2012 when MB openly attacked SCAF in a formal statement accusing it of hindering the revolution. MB leaders claimed they were threatened by SCAF to dissolve parliament. SCAF responded by threatening MB with a 1954-like scenario.

Within the context of these confrontations, the Brotherhood announced it would field a presidential candidate despite earlier promises that it would not participate in the presidential race. An FJP delegation to Washington defended this decision in early April 2012 and attributed it to the fact that SCAF allegedly told the MB that their ‘reign on the country stops at parliament,' perhaps contrary to prior communication between both parties. During their summer 2012 face-off with the military council, statements by MB members allude to promises they had been given by the SCAF. For example, al-Shater was quoted in June 2012 in the Wall Street Journal as saying: “We came to think positively of the SCAF [the ruling military council] and accept its promises to share power…Those promises were not fulfilled."

A “New” Egypt?

Not long after Mohamed Morsi won the presidential elections, Egypt’s most senior military leaders, including Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi and General Sami Anan were retired on 12 August 2012. What at first glance appeared to be a monumental revolutionary move, may well be seen as a backdoor agreement between the MB with other military leaders within SCAF when reading between the lines.

It is difficult to believe that President Morsi could have retired Tantawi and Anan without some firm understandings with other senior military leaders. The aftermath of SCAF’s “exit” from politics is even more suggestive. For instance, no senior military officer has been tried for wrongdoing committed during the transitional period. In fact, Tantawi and Anan were offered the highest state honor in the wake of their retirement. When pressed about the government’s reluctance to address the military’s past crimes, Prime Minister Hisham Qandil, like other senior officials, commended the army for its role during the transitional period, implicitly absolving the military of any wrongdoings. What is more, the military’s longstanding political and economic privileges, not only have remained untouched by the MB-controlled presidency, but also have been institutionalized in the new political order, thanks to the new constitution. The constitution, which was prepared by a Muslim Brotherhood-dominated constituent assembly, provides basis for military trials of civilians and sets the military’s budget and activities, including its revenue-generating economic enterprises, above the reach of conventional parliamentary oversight. In other words, the “new” political order in the country is one that seems to be governed by a partnership between the Muslim Brotherhood and long-standing bureaucratic centers of power entrenched inside the Egyptian state—a partnership that speaks to a long history of pacts between the Brothers and successive wielders of power in Egypt.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:37 am

It takes some pretty fancy footwork to write a history of the Muslim Brotherhood without ONCE mentioning: a) the word "terrorism" or listing the Brotherhood's assassinations of high-level government officials in the 1940's and 1950's, their organized attacks and burning of Jewish-owned businesses in the late 1940s, the burning of Cairo's landmarks in early 1952, their attempted assassination of President Gamal Abdel-Nasser in 1954 (no, they were not just "accused" -- they did it), their campaign of violence and assassinations in the 1960s, which led to their imprisonment or escape to Western Europe and Saudi Arabia, their release by Anwar Sadat in 1974 so they could terrorize the Leftists, etc., etc., until the bloody massacres and vandalism and terrorism that they were and are currently unleashing against the Egyptians since they came to power.

And b) the fact that in Hassan al-Banna's time (the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood), the Brotherhood was financed by the Suez Canal Company, which at the time was British-owned.

Just as importantly, c) it takes incredible gall to write about the relationship between the SCAF and the Brotherhood, without mentioning ONCE the US's position at the peak of this infernal triangle, and its role in imposing the Muslim Brotherhood on the Egyptians. The elderly, corrupt generals of the SCAF were incompetent, overwhelmed, weak, and frightened, and heavily relied on the US to guide them every step of the way, through daily telephone calls from the Pentagon and constant visits from US delegations from the State Department, the Pentagon, Congress and the Senate. Meanwhile, the US ambassador to Egypt, Anne Patterson, tirelessly campaigned on their behalf, setting up endless closed-door meetings to work out strategy between the Brotherhood and the US' other stooges in Egypt, when she wasn't threatening the Brotherhood's opponents.

So, there's this big, gaping hole in Wael Iskandar's article, which discredits the rest. Plan A having failed, the US is going for Plan B: pressuring the Egyptian government to deal with the Muslim Brotherhood (and fronts for the Muslim Brotherhood), not as the terrorists and enemy agents they are, but as a legitimate political partner. The Americans and their propaganda machine are now pushing us to be "inclusive", to engage in "constructive dialogue", to "not exclude anyone". Naturally, this unbelievably hypocritical advice is greeted with much hilarity by Egyptians.

The Americans succeeded, through their power over the SCAF, in getting the Muslim Brotherhood to power in Egypt, but they failed to keep them there. This failure is resounding throughout the region, where people are increasingly united in their determination to defeat the US-backed Brotherhood takeover, inspired by the Egyptians. In Iraq, the US-backed 'al-Qaeda' is engaged in a bloody tug-of-war with the Iran-backed government that is destroying what's left of the once-prosperous, strong country, which is all good as far as the Americans are concerned. The US failed in Libya (although the country has been devastated, so again, that's a consolation), the tide is turning in favor of Syria, and "Tamarod" campaigns have sprung up in Turkey, Tunisia and Gaza. Without the backing of a strong, patriotic national army, as in Egypt, these will probably not succeed by themselves, but in any case, once the Brotherhood is dead in Egypt, there won't be much left to clean up in those areas. So the region is in turmoil, and people are paying a terrible price in suffering and loss, but the US has been exposed as never before, as have most of its agents.

All the misinformation, disinformation, bullshit, fabrications, etc., etc., are now only really targeting Western public opinion. As far as Arab people, and especially Egyptians, it's too late. We know. Granted, the war is far from over, in fact it's only beginning, but we understand now. The light has been turned on, and we saw. That's really important, because as the Good Book says, "Then you will know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby AlicetheKurious » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:29 am

slimmouse » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:41 pm wrote:It strikes me from Alices commentary that the Egyptian people understand exactly who and what they are first.

The media meanwhile create the overall impression that we are something else, pick your flavor.

BS labels.

Jack?


I've been meaning to say, slimmouse, that this is a very profound insight. When the media barrages you with false reflections of who they say you are, it helps A LOT when you know better.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby Sounder » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:32 am

One beneficial aspect to recent events in Egypt is the exposure of western exceptionalist lackeys. One might reasonably suspect that those who refuse to see any information content in this exposure, secretly harbor fascistic elements within their personalities.

One way to cope with this dissonance is to point fingers at the cartoon fascists so that one may continue to deny that element within themselves.

Oh, don't you just love the smell of burning hypocrisy in the morning?

A universal feature of propaganda is to deflect attention away from the machinations of the infinite money boys.

They cannot get away from this aspect of 'controlling' the narrative, and therefor this feature should be used as an aid to the exposure of their crimes and the complicity of their oh so self-righteous facilitators.

With emphasis on facile.


http://www.redressonline.com/2013/08/re ... -is-about/
August 15, 2013

Remembering what the bloodshed in Egypt is about


Everyone who cares for Egypt is stunned by the death and destruction witnessed in Cairo and elsewhere in the country over the past couple of days.
Stunned, but not surprised, for this carnage was inevitable from the moment the Hassan al-Banna cultists of the Muslim Brotherhood decided to hold the Egyptian capital hostage to their warped, extremist Islamist ambitions.

Against this background, what is almost as shocking is the stream of apologies for the Brotherhood pouring out of the Western media, from the BBC to Channel 4 News. Suddenly, supposedly learned journalists and academics have forgotten what the Muslim Brotherhood is, why it was staging its paralysing sit-ins and the fact that it rejected all attempts at a peaceful, political solution.

Amid this hypocrisy and collective amnesia, Egyptian writer and activist Wael Nawara has had the courage to say it as it is. Writing in Al-Monitor, he says:
In Egypt, if you ask a question, you are often answered with another question. So, to the question, “Why was it so necessary to clear these sit-ins fully knowing that the blood toll was to be so high?” the answer would be, “If it’s not too important, why did the Muslim Brothers’ react by setting the whole country on fire?”

For six weeks, yard by yard, the Rabia al-Adawiya encampment expanded its borders, creeping to claim kilometre after kilometre of neighbouring streets, including the Autostrade road, which connects Nasr City and the rest of Cairo to the city’s airport. Until one day, Rabia al-Adawiya was no longer a sit-in, but a sprawling town, even a city-state, with fortifications, internal police force, complete with torture camps and border control officials. Rabia al-Adawiya came to manifest the Muslim Brotherhood’s “Parallel State”…

The Muslim Brotherhood has reached a point where it sees this as the last battle – so, it’s either win it or die as a “martyr,” which is exactly the religious narrative used so passionately by [Muhammad] Beltagy [secretary-general of the Muslim Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party], Safwat Hegazi [imam and preacher banned in the UK for stirring up hatred] and other Brotherhood leaders to emotionally charge their supporters at Rabaa to pick from these bloody choices, victory or death. And while many Brotherhood leaders are safely hiding far from the martyrdom they had so poetically described to their supporters, we should not expect the end of this conflict any time soon. The Muslim Brotherhood elements all over the country are playing what could perhaps be their final cards. Spreading chaos and pushing the country into civil war. Toward that end, they are bringing out all their tricks. The sectarian card started with burning churches and Christian missionary schools, attacking shops and Christians’ homes in Upper Egypt, hoping to start wide sectarian battles. Another important card is the collapse of security. To achieve that, Muslim Brotherhood members and Islamists have managed so far to storm several police stations, releasing prisoners and stealing arms. The government response was to impose a state of emergency and night curfew for a month.

Was it worth it? This wide confrontation between the Egyptian state and the Islamists took place several times before, most notably, when Sadat was assassinated in 1981. Many people see this confrontation as imminent and unavoidable – and that if it was allowed to take place two or three years from now, the Muslim Brotherhood would have been able to infiltrate and split the army, and hopes for restoring order without dividing the country would have been slimmer. While we’re now horrified by the death of hundreds, if the country were in a state of a civil war in which two armies fight, the death toll could climb from hundreds to hundreds of thousands…

The conflict in Egypt is not a dispute over percentages of election gains. It’s not about who rules. It’s rather about “what to rule”: the state of Egypt — or the Brotherhood’s state.
We have little to add to this, but can only hope that the BBC, Channel 4 News and others set aside their pretense of moral superiority, if only for a few days, and report the painful facts in their proper context.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby coffin_dodger » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:14 am

Sounder » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:32 pm wrote:One beneficial aspect to recent events in Egypt is the exposure of western exceptionalist lackeys.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby slimmouse » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:29 am

This sounds like an interesting development..... which I suspect may have been ongoing. Alice?

Egyptian government temporarily halts IMF loan negotiations

According to minister of finance, Ahmed Galal, the Egyptian government currently has no intention of carrying forward talks with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for $4.8 billion in aid, as the country no longer bears austerity policies.

Speaking in an interview with Dream satellite channel on Tuesday, Galal said the government is seeking to achieve an economic policy that could balance the requirements of economical discipline while injecting new investments into the market.

"No one could support us except ourselves," Galal said. He continued, "We could boost our own economy by supporting domestic investments and production, as well as rationing energy, so that the next government would be able to endure."

Galal pointed that recently, the government is adopting numerous initiatives to achieve social justice, including an initiative to financially support poor families and another initiative to boost non-official businesses by exempting them from taxes for a specific period of time.

According to a press statement issued on Wednesday, the minister emphasized that the current government is conducting an expansion policy which mainly focuses on new investments in order to bolster the state's ailing economy. The Egyptian economy has experienced a slowdown over the past period.

The statement pointed out that public deficit represented 14 % of the GDP in fiscal year 2012-2013 and that the general debt climbed to about 92 % of the GDP.

The minister noted that although these indices may raise people's concerns, the economic developments following 30 June revolt seemed positive and signals that the domestic economy is able to get over all troubles.

"The recent Gulf financial packages are expected to help the government to guarantee petroleum products which are needed by society, with no crisis or more pressure on the foreign cash reserves," Galal said.

The government will inject $6 billion worth of deposits into the Central Bank of Egypt in an effort to bolster foreign cash reserves.

Several Gulf countries, including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, meanwhile offered financial aid and fuel supplies to Egypt following the overthrow of former President Mohamed Morsy.

Galal said that the government is contemplating taking two steps: increasing sales taxes from 10% to 12.5 % and imposing a progressive tax and construction tax.

The minister emphasized that no further tax categories would be imposed since it weighs on the poor but that the government would rely more on the value added tax system (VAT).

Commenting on the minister's statements, the chairman of Abu Dhabi Islamic Bank (ADIB) capital, Karim Helal said, "I believe this decision sounds good especially as it is a feedback of the statement released by the IMF managing director, Christine Lagarde, days ago."

On Friday, Lagarde said that the circumstances in Egypt do not yet allow the resumption of negotiations on the package the fund intends to submit to Cairo. Violence has racked the country since Morsy was toppled.

"The IMF is more likely a guarantee to attract foreign investors, so I expect the negotiations to continue within this year." said Helal.

Helal welcomed the decision of the VAT tax system. He believes the government of former Prime Minister Hesham Qandil was mostly dependent on imposing huge taxes to tackle the deficit, a policy which has not met much success.


Link - http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/eg ... gotiations
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby vanlose kid » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:43 pm

AlicetheKurious » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:54 am wrote:Vanlose Kid, please come out from behind your wall of cut-and-paste blah, blah, blah written by whoever, to explain your own point of view, and the moral and factual basis for it in your own words.

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that the Brotherhood regime should be imposed by force on the Egyptian people against their express will? Because behind all the progressive catch-words, you are essentially aligning yourself with what is undeniably the most reactionary, fascist, right-wing dictatorship Egypt has ever seen; far more oppressive and violent, corrupt and hateful than the Mubarak regime was. Is that what you want for us?

Are you suggesting that the Egyptian people could have liberated themselves from this armed terrorist gang without the help of the police and army? How?

On what basis are you implying that the army is currently running Egypt rather than the civilian government that actually is? Is it just one of those claims that requires no evidence to back it up?

What, if anything, will convince you that you are wrong?

Finally, given how you continue to ignore the facts, how relevant do you think your opinion is?


Hi Alice, a lot of questions there. I'll try to answer them, some, all, but I don't think anything I say will satisfy you as to what it is you want to be satisfied about, as in my complete and utter agreement with your views as to what is going on. Be that as it may, here it is.

Back when the revolution succeeded in 2011 (And you can go back in this thread and see for yourself, if you can be bothered. I can't.) I said that handing over to the military and abandoning Tahrir was a mistake. It still is.

And to make it clear, I'm not in anyway implying that the military is running Egypt, I'm saying when hasn't it? As far as I can tell (again abandoning Tahrir and handing over to the military) it still is. Sisi is calling the shots and with him the old guard-deep state.

As for the MB, they were, are and probably will be part of the deep state. What's been happening recently (at the top) is two factions of the mafiosi killing each other. That's my view. The people in the middle (under the italian boots and parisian high heels) are just trying to get by, figure out who's going to win and hedging their bets accordingly. They know they don't have a say. Democracy or whatever doesn't come into it at all.

*

PS: the communications and missives of the new government are indeed facts, I'm not ignoring them. It's just that I question whether what they convey are the facts.

PPS: we disagree. It happens.

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby conniption » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:47 pm

RT

Major offensive: Egypt brings tanks and choppers to ‘clean’ Sinai of militants

Published time: September 07, 2013

Image
Reuters / Amr Abdallah Dalsh


The Egyptian military have launched a major offensive against Islamist militants in the northern Sinai Peninsula, with the operation described as the biggest of its kind in recent years.

At least 31 people were killed or injured after helicopters and tanks attacked villages on the Israel-Gaza Strip border. Another 15 people were detained during the operation, an undisclosed Egyptian security official told Reuters.

The counterinsurgency offensive is aimed at “cleaning” the areas of the Sinai where Islamic militants operate, including the border towns of Rafah and Sheikh Zuweyid, AP cited another military official as saying.

The major counterinsurgency offensive is aimed at “cleaning” those parts of the Sinai where Islamic militants operate, including the border towns of Rafah and Sheikh Zuweyid, he added.

A witness told the agency that a column of tanks, infantry trucks, rocket launchers and other military vehicles were seen in the area.

Meanwhile, the Egyptian military have diffused an explosive device on a railway line near the Suez Canal, the state news agency reported.

Multiple Al-Qaida-inspired militant groups have stepped up attacks on pipelines and security forces in the Sinai since the ouster of Egypt's president, Mohamed Morsi, by the army on July 3.

The situation remains tense in Egypt’s capital Cairo where a blast went off near a police station. There were no reports of casualties.

Protests against the military rule continue across the country, with three people reported killed in clashes as pro-Morsi demonstrators took to the streets of Cairo and the country’s second largest city, Alexandria, on Friday.

On Thursday, a suicide bomber attacked the motorcade of Egypt’s interior minister, Mohamed Ibrahim, with the official escaping unharmed in a massive explosion, which rocked the capital’s Nasr City district.


*

RT - Sept. 7, 2013

700 refuges, mostly Syrians and Egyptians, rescued from struggling boats in Italy

The Italian coast guard says it has rescued more than 700 migrants and refugees, including many Syrians and Egyptians, from four struggling boats off the coast of Sicily on Friday and Saturday, the Naharnet website reports. The number of refugees trying to reach Italy in dinghies and other boats has increased in recent months because of escalating violence in Syria and Egypt. According to the Italian interior ministry, around 3,000 Syrians have arrived in Italy since the beginning of the year, with most of them arriving by boat in eastern Sicily.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:20 pm


Prosecutor investigates foreign funding charges against activists
On Sat, 07/09/2013 - 19:37

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/pr ... -activists

Top prosecutor Hisham Barakat ordered an investigation into claims against a number of Egyptian activists over charges of receiving foreign funds, a judicial source said.

Many claims were filed against activists saying they received foreign funding from the United States specifically.

The activists include Wael Abbas, Wael Ghonim, Amr Hamzawy, Esraa Abdel Fattah, Wael Qandil, Asmaa Mahfouz, Ayman Nour, Ahmed Douma, Alaa Abdel Fattah, Nawara Negm, Abderrahman Ezz, Essan Sultan, Moataz Abdel Fattah, Ahmed Maher, Gehad al-Haddad, Hesham al-Bastawisy, Ghada Shahbandar, Hafez Abu Se'da, Nasser Amin, Amr al-Shobaky, Ahmed Samih, Mazen Hassan, Hamdy Qenawy, Doaa Qassem, Marwa Mokhtar, Gamila Ismail, Maikel Mounir, Barbara Ibrahim and others.

A claim about secret meetings between former US Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson with activists, in order to divulge details about the internal situation in Egypt will also be investigated, the source said.

Edited translation from Al-Masry Al-Youm


Most of us may readily recognize only Wael Ghonim among the names on the above list.

Would love to hear from Alice who in her estimation the people being investigated tend to be: real or fake revolutionaries, really pushing a foreign agenda or not?
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby conniption » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:50 am

Image

Esquire

Sep 9, 2013

Hands Across The Water

By Charles P. Pierce

Apparently, there's a little known codicil in some trade deal whereby we have agreed to some sort of free-exchange of crazy people with Egypt.

"Together, we've gone through suffering. Together, the United States and Egypt, have dealt with the same enemy," Bachmann explained. "It's a common enemy, and it's an enemy called terrorism...We want to make sure that you have the Apache helicopters, the F-16s, the equipment that you have so bravely used to capture terrorists and to take care of this menace that's on your border," she continued. "Many of you have asked, do we understand who the enemy is? We can speak for ourselves. We do...We have seen the threat that the Muslim Brotherhood has posed here for the people in Egypt. We have seen the threat that the Muslim Brotherhood has posed around the world. We stand against this great evil. We are not for them. We remember who caused 9/11 in America. We remember who it was that killed 3,000 brave Americans. We have not forgotten."


What's that you say? Steve King has some American history he'd like to analogize into shrapnel? Swell.

"We met with for a long meeting General el-Sisi and many of the military leaders, and my friend Steve King mentioned again about our heritage in America," he explained. "George Washington, doing what no one had ever done before him, led a military in revolution, won the revolution, and then resigned and went home." "And we met, in General el-Sisi, a man who is leader of the military, who might have a shot at being elected president, but is more concerned about giving his life to help his country, Egypt," Gohmert said.


See? This is what happens when you loot the Valley Of Kings. This is the Curse Of The Pharaohs at work. You wind up with these people in your Congress.


*

Bachmann, Steve King and Louie Gohmert,SUPPORTING THE OVER THROW OF MORSI A RADICAL MUSLIM

15:00 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0iTiCHjiNs

Published on Sep 7, 2013
Bachmann, Steve King and Louie Gohmert,SUPPORTING THE OVER THROW OF MORSI A RADICAL MUSLIM

Top Comment
gd14lawn 12 hours ago
Did they drive the clown car all the way to Egypt?
+
funkydunky29 2 hours ago
"Nine-one-one"? Why is Michelle Bachmann so stupid shes referring to 9/11 as "nine-one-one"?



·
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby American Dream » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:27 am

Egypt: When Armies Are in Power

September 13, 2013

By Immanuel Wallerstein

Source: Toward Freedom

It is almost always bad news when armies are in power. In Egypt, the army has been the deciding force since 1952. The recent destitution by the Egyptian army of President Mohamed Morsi was not a coup d’état. One cannot commit a coup d’état against oneself. What happened was simply that the army changed the way it was governing Egypt. For a short period, the army had allowed the Muslim Brotherhood to make some limited state decisions. When they began to feel that the actions of the Morsi government might lead to a significant increase in Muslim Brotherhood power at the expense of the Egyptian army, General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi decided that enough was enough, and acted ruthlessly to increase the day-to-day power of the army.
Armies in power are in general highly nationalist and very authoritarian. They tend to be very conservative forces in terms of the world-economy. Furthermore, the senior officers not only permit the army to have a direct entrepreneurial role, but they also tend to use their military power as a mode of personal enrichment. This has certainly been the case for most of the time since the Egyptian army assumed direct power in 1952 – or shall we say, at least since 1952.

Is it possible for armies to play a progressive role in national and world politics? Yes, certainly. Sometimes the nationalism of the army leads them to espouse an anti-imperialist line in geopolitics and a populist role in supporting the needs of the underclasses. This was the case with the initial role of Gamal Abdel Nasser. But progressive populism is unnatural for armies, which find it difficult to engage in the bargaining process it necessarily entails internally. And progressive populism leads to a readiness to impose the army’s views on neighboring countries, thereby undermining precisely what had been progressive in their geopolitical stances. This was true of Nasser as it had been true of Napoleon.

What is interesting about the Egyptian army’s crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood is the reaction it has evoked within and outside the country. Remember first of all that before the initial uprising against Hosni Mubarak began in Tahrir Square in 2011 the Muslim Brotherhood had managed to obtain a limited role in political life (a small minority of seats in the legislature and some limits to its repression) by a tacit deal with the Mubarak regime, which means with the army.

So when the populace began to flow into Tahrir Square demanding change, neither the army nor the Muslim Brotherhood was very supportive. However, when the popular uprising seemed to be taking off, both the army and the Muslim Brotherhood decided hastily to join it, in order to tame it by appropriating it. And when the run-off in the first presidential election reduced the choice to one between Morsi and a former leading figure of the Mubarak regime, both the secular left and centrist voters and the army chose Morsi, enabling him to win by a small margin.

When Morsi decided to proceed to put into effect a new constitution with a decidedly Muslim tilt, the secular voters returned to Tahrir Square to denounce him. The army joined them once again to control the situation. And the secular voters now cheered on the very army they had denounced two years earlier.

The political situation is straightforward. Both the Muslim Brotherhood and the Egyptian right (the forces that had long supported Mubarak) command enough voters so that any reasonably honest election will allow one or the other to be victorious. The secular forces – the multiple socialist parties and the middle-class centrists whose leading figure at the moment is Mohamed el-Baradei, are too few in number. In the end, they have to join forces with one or the other, while they really want neither the right nor the Muslim Brotherhood. And the Egyptian Salafists joined the anti-Morsi coalition, hoping thereby to strengthen their own hand among Muslim activists.

In the rest of the world, the enthusiasts for the actions of the army are a strange lot: Israel, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, Russia, Algeria and Morocco, and probably Bashar al-Assad. The unhappy ones are Hamas, Ennahda in Tunisia, Turkey, and Qatar. As for the United States (as well as western Europe), it loses whoever wins, and has become irrelevant.

For Israel, Morsi represented a threat whereas the Egyptian army will preserve the relative detente. For Saudi Arabia, the Brotherhood represented their great rivals in the Arab world. For al-Assad, the Brotherhood had been great supporters of the Free Syrian Army. Algeria and Morocco both work hard to constrain Islamist forces, and the fall of Morsi is therefore to be applauded. For Russia, the fall of Morsi probably guarantees no major shift in the geopolitics of the region, which is what Russia wants.

For Turkey (as for Ennahda in Tunisia), the fall of Morsi undermines the case for a “moderate” Islamic government. For Qatar, the fall of Morsi weakens their hand in their struggle with Saudi Arabia.

The U.S. government wants above all stability in the region. It was ready to work with Morsi, if necessary. It has long had the closest possible ties with the Egyptian army. It has tried to wiggle between the two, offending both sides as well as both neo-cons and human rights supporters in the United States.

The one presumed piece of U.S. leverage with Egypt – its financial aid, of which 80% goes to the army – cannot be used. For one thing, Saudi Arabia and the Emirates have already sent in more money than the United States has been giving. And secondly, the U.S. government needs the Egyptian army more than the other way around. The Egyptian army likes to buy its equipment from the United States. But if cut off from that, it can find equipment elsewhere. The U.S. government needs the Egyptian army for overflight rights, intelligence assistance, assurances about detente with Israel, and many other things, for which there is no replacement. So, Obama is reduced to making symbolic gestures, with no teeth.

The Egyptian right has won, the Egyptian left has lost (even if it doesn’t yet acknowledge this), and the Muslim Brotherhood will go underground, from which it may yet re-emerge, strengthened.



From: Z Net - The Spirit Of Resistance Lives
URL: http://www.zcommunications.org/egypt-wh ... allerstein
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby KeenInsight » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:22 pm

"Arab Spring" was an event with financial ties to groups in the U.S. A lot of provocateurs and 'leaders' of groups inciting unrest in those countries were directly trained in the U.S., essentially hi-jacking the interests and pleas of civilians from devastated economies and/or power squarely in the hands of the 'elite' of those countries.

Its the same-old, same-old - as the CIA has largely been behind instigating unrest in countries at the behest of political or policy aims that meet their agendas, either by making nations subservient with a dictator in their back pocket or the procurement of resources and vital positions vs. other global super powers.

Its all just a game to them.
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Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

Postby slimmouse » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:42 pm

whilst i would agree with all the above and it could be just me, I suspect the Egpyptian people arent falling for this crap anymore.

Just as an interesting afterthought, I wonder if the PTB actually anticipated this "Arab Spring", and were positioned accordingly?
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