9/11 Truth Movement vs. 9/11 Truth

[Telexx]

What am I supposed to do, cite every single thing at Architect and Engineers for 9/11 Truth yet again?

You call all that "subjective opinion?" *shrugs*

No, I'm saying in your subjective opinion, you feel that CD has been scientifically proven beyond all reasonable doubt. You misread my point. If CD were scientifically proven beyond all reasonable doubt, then we'd not be having this umpteenth 911-megathread.

LIHOP would not conveniently facilitate a police-state defense, if proven it would demonstrate that some demonic fuckers actually let 3000+ of their own people be murdered on purpose which would be just about the most devastating blow to the establishment as is possible.

Uh, "murdered" by who? Oh yeah. Those 'bearded baddies who hate us for our freedom.'
That was my point. As long as folks think Evil Ay-rabs done killed our kin, the feud is on.

Uh, who let those people be murdered - that is the more pertinent question. So let me rephrase:

LIHOP would not conveniently facilitate a police-state defense, if proven it would demonstrate that TPTB actually let 3000+ of their own people be murdered on purpose by suspects unknown...

You think that wouldn't shake the foundations of the Establishment to its core? I think it would, just as much as proof of CD.

So the anti-9/11 Truth sleeper disinformation-division-diversion campaign cranked way up in response to this predictable eventuality rather like the incremental gestation of the JFK Truth movement.

To suggest that LIHOP was a CIA-sponsored meme propagated to throw people off the CD scent is the precise kind of bullshit that causes the Truth to be characterised as tin-foil-hat-wearin'-crazies... Sorry.

I didn't say that. Some of us "crazies" are tired of being flayed with straw men.

The controlled demolition was known to the National inSecurity State experts (who know junior high school physics) immediately and control of the story went into effect immediately, just like Dealey Plaza.

One technique of counterpropaganda is silence. That is, not advertising the very thing you want to suppress so that maybe the story stays small and dies out on its own.

So the USG disinformation teams waited until the truthers started to catch on much later to put out their demolition-specific disinfo like Fetzer/Woods/Reynolds "power beams from space" and the nonsense from Manuel Garcia.

That's all I meant.

Kthx,
HMW

Fair enough. There was no intentional straw-man, I (and seemingly Jeff also) mis-read your post.

You (and anyone else) can surely understand that, even without the crazed ideas about power beams etc, the conduct of a group of people will - rightly or wrongly - affect their credibility. That is how it is.

Thanks,

Telexx

[MacCruiskeen]

Jeff wrote:

but that's not because of some "left/liberal" bias.

Of course it isn't, and of course I never said it was! (Jesus, Jeff, now you're turning me into a John Bircher who thinks the mass media are too left-wing...)

I do not think the media are too left-wing. On the contrary. And it goes without saying that Bill O'Reilly, Tucker Carlsson and their prominent powerworshipping cohorts are not going to welcome any kind of Truth Movement. It's obvious that they will condemn such people as wackos, nut-jobs, ranters, losers, seedy "anarchists", and indeed terrorist sympathizers. So the reaction of this right-wing commentariat to 9/11Truth has been entirely predictable, and is therefore barely worth mentioning in this context (unless, like me, you're positively forced to). The point I'm labouring (sweating) to make is that the soi-disant "critical" "left" has performed no better on this issue than Carlsson or O'Reilly.

I am not suggesting for one moment that Cockburn, Corn, Monbiot, 'Skinner' and Taibbi cast the shows we see on Fox, NBC or CNN. I am saying they cast the shows we see in Counterpunch, The Nation, The Guardian, Democratic Underground and Rolling Stone. These are their own little independent studios. So look at the quality of the scripts they come up with, of their own free will, and look at the characters they select to people their narrative: wackos, nut-jobs, ranters, losers, sinister foreigners, anonymous seedy "anarchists"...:

Matt Taibbi:

A group of Truthers even picketed my office, and I'm still picking food particles out of my scarf after an incident in which the movement's house lunatic, a wild-eyed German blogger named Nico Haupt, tried to goad me into slugging him in a West Side diner.

"Go ahead, heet me, then I haf beeg story!" he roared, scream-spitting half-digested detritus in my face.

... Haupt is a literary juggernaut, one of the most voluble bloggers on planet Earth. His Internet entries read like a MySpace mixture of MTV's Real World meets Che's Congo Diaries, only on meth and in a German accent. ...

This screed is from 2006. It's worth pausing for a moment to see how Taibbi achieves some of his effects. (And remember: he could easily have chosen to people his Truther Overview with McKinney, Thompson and Jeff Wells instead. He didn't, because he had resolved to write a low comedy.) First, we have that stock figure of "irreverent" TV sitcoms, the Funny Foreigner. ("Ve haf vays of making you toke!") And few foreigners are funnier than Germans, right? Especially in these days of dismal political correctness when we're no longer even allowed to make jokes about the darkies any more. - That Haupt guy, though, eh? Spitting food! Threatening violence! Yelling like Colonel Klink! Typical Truther. Clearly, these people are all, like, total jerks. It'll be fun to see how this story develops.

Having set the scene with admirable dramatic economy, Taibbi moves on smartly to position himself in the storyline as a relaxed and likable counterweight to the gloomy Teuton, Haupt. In the course of a single line, he manages to name-check a book few of his readers will have read but many will have heard of, as well as a popular MTV show and the totally hot new media phenomenon MySpace, thereby establishing his credentials for the nervous Rolling Stone readership: Matt Taibbi is smart, hip, literate and media-savvy! He's fast and furious, he's totally irreverent, and he's funny as hell! Matt takes no prisoners! He's your guide to the urban jungle! Wouldn't you LOVE to be like him? Well, thank you, Rolling Stone; but no. Taibbi's humour is laboured, ingratiating, ego-driven, intellectually lazy, and essentially factory-built. Nothing really distinguishes this stuff from the work of P. J. O'Rourke.

But it's smart all right. Oh yes, it's smart, smart, smart. Smart as a button, and about as valuable.

David Rovics' instruments are a bit blunter. He's a musician, after all, not a writer:

I found myself once again singing at an antiwar rally two weeks ago, and once again being confronted by a red-faced white man with an ominous hand-written sign reading, "9/11 was a lie." Most of the crowd was filing off for the post-rally march, aside from a few of my loyal fans who were sticking around for the rest of my set. Among them was the red-faced man, apparently not a fan, who walked towards the small stage with the wild-eyed certainty of a zealot.

"Wake up, David Rovics! David Rovics, wake up to the truth of 9/11!" He was screaming at the top of his lungs, standing about two feet from me. (I continued with the song.) In case I didn't get the message the first time, the red-faced man repeated his mantra. "Wake up! Wake up to the truth of 9/11!"

Are we starting to see a pattern here? Are we all getting the message?

Alexander Cockburn:

"I'm not sure I see the silver lining about cynicism re government," I answered. "People used to say the same thing about the JFK conspiracy buffs and disbelief in the Warren Commission. Actually, it seems to demobilize people from useful political activity. I think the nuttishness stems from despair and political infantilism. There's no worthwhile energy to transfer from such kookery. It's like saying some lunatic shouting to himself on a street corner has the capacity to be a great orator. The nearest thing to it all is the Flying Saucer craze. 'Open up the USAF archives!' It's a Jungian thing."

We are getting the message. We are starting to see a pattern here. And the Jersey Widows just don't fit into it. That's why they're nowhere to be seen.

[AlicetheKurious]

MacCruisken, ye're a man after me own heart and mind. That was beautiful. Elegant, lucid and devastating.

[Avalon]

"MacCruisken, ye're a man after me own heart and mind. That was beautiful. Elegant, lucid and devastating."

I'll second that.

[FourthBase]

Thirded, even though I'm a CD agnostic, because what Mac wrote in his last two posts is devastatingly true either way.

[AlanStrangis]

We are getting the message. We are starting to see a pattern here. And the Jersey Widows just don't fit into it. That's why they're nowhere to be seen.

I'm seeing the pattern... those who think that yelling "Why'd you pull it?" at Larry Silverstein is effective truth dissemination in 2008 are winning out, because, you know, they have megaphones.

And so the gulf widens.

[isachar]

4th'ed, Mac hits a low, inside brushback pitch out of the park.

[FourthBase]

4th'ed, Mac hits a low, inside brushback pitch out of the park.

Brushback pitches are invariably high.

I wouldn't call Jeff's pitch a brushback anyway.
More like a hanging curve.

And most importantly, it's a scrimmage, not a contest.
The pitcher and hitter are on the same team, not opponents.

[isachar]

4th'ed, Mac hits a low, inside brushback pitch out of the park.

Brushback pitches are invariably high.

I wouldn't call Jeff's pitch a brushback anyway.
More like a hanging curve.

And most importantly, it's a scrimmage, not a contest.
The pitcher and hitter are on the same team, not opponents.

Scrimmage, game - like, whatever. He still parked it.

Guess you've never seen the occasional one aimed at the knees? Or perhaps they don't do that in Beantown?

[FourthBase]

4th'ed, Mac hits a low, inside brushback pitch out of the park.

Brushback pitches are invariably high.

I wouldn't call Jeff's pitch a brushback anyway.
More like a hanging curve.

And most importantly, it's a scrimmage, not a contest.
The pitcher and hitter are on the same team, not opponents.

Scrimmage, game - like, whatever. He still parked it.

Guess you've never seen the occasional one aimed at the knees? Or perhaps they don't do that in Beantown?

Eh, brushbacks are almost always elevated.

The point is, Jeff is not trying to "beat you" in a contest.

[isachar]

FB writes:

"Eh, brushbacks are almost always elevated."

==================================

"almost always".

Yup, except when they're not.

Tell me some more about missing the point.

[Searcher08]

We are getting the message. We are starting to see a pattern here. And the Jersey Widows just don't fit into it. That's why they're nowhere to be seen.

Werd.

Trying to get the word of 911 out sometimes seems to fall between the Scylla of the right-wing attack rottweilers, the Coulters and Hannitiys to the
Charybdis of left wing attack Poodles and being patronised and whined to death...

[MacCruiskeen]

Fourth Base wrote:

The pitcher and hitter are on the same team, not opponents.

Yes, I'd like to stress that, if it's not already obvious.

And it would be rude not to thank people for their praise, so thanks. But I have no desire to 'beat' anyone into submission, least of all the author of this website, from which I have learned a ton about too many matters to list. And the Coincidence Theorists' Guide is the first thing I send people to if they don't understand what I'm talking about.

We agree that some people are pointlessly rude and that too many people are obsessed with explosions. We also agree that "9/11Truth" currently has a very poor image amongst the left/liberal commentariat. The only thing that divides us here -- and it's a big thing -- is where to place the emphasis and where to apportion the blame. Which has to be apportioned, and apportioned properly, because otherwise it stands around blocking thought, and therefore any hope of effective action*.

So give me the red-faced guy with the handwritten sign over smug Matt Taibbi, any day. The former is at least doing his best, and the latter clearly isn't (because he has too much to lose by doing so). Shame on him, and on all the other bullies, careerists and moral cowards** who love beating up people half their size, while refusing to face a 'fight' with Cynthia McKinney or the Jersey Widows.

I wish Martin Luther King was still alive.

*Action includes words, because words are weapons (among much else).

**Not all rudeness is pointless.

[Telexx]

And most importantly, it's a scrimmage, not a contest. The pitcher and hitter are on the same team, not opponents.

This point just happens to be:

a) Very true.
b) Very important.

Thanks,

Telexx

[IanEye]

And most importantly, it's a scrimmage, not a contest. The pitcher and hitter are on the same team, not opponents.

This point just happens to be:

a) Very true.
b) Very important.

Thanks,

Telexx

4B, how dare you make true and important points with sports analogies!