Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:49 pm

semper occultus wrote:....oh there you are....thanks for those snippets - I'm very piqued by Savile's links to Caledonia..

..what forums are you following this on ?

I've only got time to follow & post on the Icke one - well over 600 pages & 1.5m views - its like catching Niagra in a paper-cup at the moment - also a fair number of defectors crossing the wire from mumsnet & ds on there....!


Hiya Semper, I'm actually not following it as close as might be expected, just reading on Digital Spy now and again, where I first saw O'Hagan's piece from the LRB. There are a lot of Icke-ians on the Ds thread too, it's like a huge cross-pollination is taking place. There is a man I was surprised not to find mentioned in O'Hagan's article, since he worked for the BBC at that time, in the radio department mostly, and was known to enjoy the company of boys. His marriage was never consummated. He presented nature documentaries, mainly aimed at children. You might have heard of him - Maxwell Knight. He was also (previous to and concurrent with his BBC work) the main agent-runner for MI5.

So maybe not that surprising that he wasn't mentioned in the piece. :wink:

Another guy who might be worth looking at in connection to Scotland (going back to the time period that the LRB piece deals with) is Gavin Maxwell, the author of A Ring of Bright Water - a Special Forces type from an aristocratic background, a wartime instructor of the Special Operations Executive, and a tormented (but thankfully most likely inactive) paedophile of the J.M. Barrie type. Like nearly everyone else mentioned in O'Hagan's piece, he payed visits to Morrocco. He also adopted Terry Nutkins for a while, which is weird. Nutkins said he never abused him, but was a strange and lonely man.

Anyway, Stephen Morgan's last post on your thread in the sub-forum made me go :shock:

Seeing Theresa May launching the new inquiries in Parliament today was shocking as well. Yet another thing I never thought I would see in my lifetime.
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:19 pm

Damn, according to many posters on this Urban75 thread, Terry Nutkins was a predatory abuser of young girls as well. http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/t ... 843/page-2

He was one presenter that I actually did like as a kid. This has never been mentioned in the mainstream media to my knowledge, though Nutkins made some programmes for Radio 4 about his strange relationship with Gavin Maxwell as a child, always insisting that Maxwell never laid a hand on him. Maxwell left all his wealth to Nutkins after his death, to the horror of Maxwell's family and the RSPCA.

There was a powerful piece on Channel 4 a moment ago, I don't know if it will play in other countries.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Plp2fVDio

One of the victims from Bryn Estyn (Steve Messham) says he gave the police photographic evidence of the abuse at the time - with Robert McA and other prominent people visible in the photographs - but this evidence subsequently "went missing" in police custody. Should North Wales police really be involved in re-investigating these cases?

It is a very disturbing interview, possibly triggering. Peter Morrison was also directly named in the piece by another victim from the home.

Does anyone have a link to the story about the videos that "went missing"/were destroyed in Belgium in the aftermath of the Dutroux case, btw?

On an unrelated note (well, hopefully) it seems that Roger Took (subject of the highly disturbing Spectator article "The Establishment Paedophile") was released from jail in 2011, but killed himself soon after. I find it mindboggling that he was released so soon. Or at all.
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby slimmouse » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:18 pm

Lets cut to the quick here, WRT "shit scared denialistsl"

Back in the mid 1990s, David Icke named former Biritish prime Minister Edward Heath as a child murdering peadophile - WHILST HEATH WAS STILL ALIVE. He doesnt stop there of course. He names a pile of em.

He joined all the dots that we riggies have spent hours dissecting, including links to Haute La Garenne.

When Heath was informed of such accusations, his response , as opposed to suing Ickes ass, was to join in the anti-Icke furor by claimng that "the man must be mad".

Why does someone of such importance as Edward Heath, being accused of what Icke was accusing him of, not actually take out some serious litigation against his accuser ? Show this "madman" up for the idiot that he has been so often vilifiied as?

THIS is the heart of all this issue AFAIC.

Still sickened, and deeply concerned about how I believe this is once again going to be covered up big time, I await any re-eductation with regards to any of this.

An answer to the question of non-litigation against Icke would be gladly appreciated.

And I should finally advance apologies to people who seem grossly offended by the name "David Icke".

Regrettably for you, Im also deeply offended by the stigma attached to him by many people on this "intuitive forum", given that what he has been saying for years is increasingly manifesting itself as some hard hitting truth.

Im guessing its about time for a "reptillian cartoon show" ?

Yes Wonbaticus, Icke was right.
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:53 pm

slimmouse wrote:Lets cut to the quick here, WRT "shit scared denialistsl"

Back in the mid 1990s, David Icke named former Biritish prime Minister Edward Heath as a child murdering peadophile - WHILST HEATH WAS STILL ALIVE. He doesnt stop there of course. He names a pile of em.

He joined all the dots that we riggies have spent hours dissecting, including links to Haute La Garenne.

When Heath was informed of such accusations, his response , as opposed to suing Ickes ass, was to join in the anti-Icke furor by claimng that "the man must be mad".

Why does someone of such importance as Edward Heath, being accused of what Icke was accusing him of, not actually take out some serious litigation against his accuser ? Show this "madman" up for the idiot that he has been so often vilifiied as?

THIS is the heart of all this issue AFAIC.

Still sickened, and deeply concerned about how I believe this is once again going to be covered up big time, I await any re-eductation with regards to any of this.

An answer to the question of non-litigation against Icke would be gladly appreciated.

And I should finally advance apologies to people who seem grossly offended by the name "David Icke".

Regrettably for you, Im also deeply offended by the stigma attached to him by many people on this "intuitive forum", given that what he has been saying for years is increasingly manifesting itself as some hard hitting truth.

Im guessing its about time for a "reptillian cartoon show" ?

Yes Wonbaticus, Icke was right.




Back in the mid 1990s, David Icke named former Biritish prime Minister Edward Heath as a child murdering peadophile......there's no denying that
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby semper occultus » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:41 pm

....probably sensible to take a step back Ahab, feels like we're in a very strange febrile place at the moment - bit of a "revelation of the method" vibe abroad almost like someone's turning up the heat - from asian grooming-gangs, to Hillsborough, the Savile/BBC/NHS mega-scandal which courtesy of Watson effortlessly jumped the fire-break to Bryn-Estin...I see from Watson that he's still pushing the envelope - looks like he's after Jersey aswell & maybe a roundabout way of rattling some of the Labour skeletons without getting an axe buried in his head :

Tom Watson accuses May of "a cover-up" over child abuse claims
Labour MP says inquiry into allegations involving a senior Conservative politician is "the next stage of a cover-up".

To limit this inquiry to north Wales and Savile would in my view be a dereliction of the Home Secretary's duty. It would guarantee that many sickening crimes will remain uninvestigated and some of the most despicable paedophiles will remain protected by the establishment that has shielded them for 30 years.

Whether you were raped or tortured as a child in Wales or in Whitehall you are entitled to be heard. The media may be transfixed by the spectre of a paedophile cabinet minster abusing children, but what actually matters is that thousands and thousands of children, whose lives have been ground into nothing, who prefer to kill themselves than carry on, who have nowhere to turn, to whom nobody listens, whom nobody helps. Does she sincerely want to start making amends or can she live with being what she’s just announced – the next stage of a cover-up.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2012/11/tom-watson-accuses-may-cover-over-child-abuse-claims


....and.....

May was careful to warn MPs that using parliamentary privilege to name the Thatcher-era Tory could jeopardise any future prosecution. For the record, the individual in question has denied all of the allegations. He told the Daily Telegraph:

Some guy said I was in the habit of taking young men from Wrexham in my Rolls-Royce.

But I have only been to Wrexham once and I didn’t visit the children’s home, I made a speech to the constituency. I was with an official at all times. I never had a Rolls Royce.

When the inquiry was taking place I hired a lawyer to watch it in case there was any mention of my name. The point is that it is totally without any grounds whatsoever.


thanks for those other thoughts - yes Maxwell Knight good-one - disciple / intimate of Crowley aswell ofcourse.....Nutkins - who oddly also walked off with the bulk of the estate from Johnny Morris's will apparently....

that Scallywag scan on PIE was one of mine actually - not sure where Morgan saw it - further to that someone on Icke thread identified the "Mr Henderson" of MI6 who also appeared on the PIE mailing list - see who starts piping-up about setting dubious precedents :

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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:11 pm

No scandal or crime or disaster should go without an opportunity to pimp the wonderfulness of David Icke.
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:30 pm

JackRiddler wrote:No scandal or crime or disaster should go without an opportunity to pimp the wonderfulness of David Icke.



He outed fuckin pedophiles Jack.....20 fuckin years ago I wonder how many lives could have been different if he was listened to....so I guess you can call me a pimp for Icke don't bother me...since when is telling the truth about swine a sin? Only if it's your approved swine?
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They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby semper occultus » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:31 pm

..well I was pimping the thread on his forum actually - which I don't think he's posted to personally...& whilst there are undoubtedly a few nasty BNP types floating around who would last < 3 seconds on this board I'm glad to say they've been totally inundated under a tidal wave of very ordinary people finally starting to "wake-up & join the dots " & bringing a mind-boggling wealth of knowledge & experience with them...is all....
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby jcivil » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:12 pm

It is not a question of Is Icke correct in all things, or is Icke the only one who pointed fingers and named names.

Good on him for speaking up, good on the people for purging all leadership entirely.

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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:17 pm

Not just naming names -- really, my admiration for the guy stems more than anything from two basic facts:

1) his core message is, all lizards aside, a 1:1 match with Huxley's "Perennial Philosophy." I've seen this cat speak a few times and as much as he spins the webs of covert horror like anyone else in the field, he really emphasizes The Power of Love and The Myth of Inevitability. Both are essential truths and I don't mind them coming from a mildly deranged turquoise vessel any more than I resent discovering beautifully Real Christians who happen to have swallowed the Bible whole in addition to being, objectively, wonderful people. Takes all kinds -- most of those kinds cannot be taken seriously as historical researchers, but that's a specialty caste.

2) with all due respect for naming names and pointing fingers -- more than that, he listened to victims. He took them seriously, he followed up.

That counts for a lot.
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:27 am

Has Heath been implicated directly in the current revelations? (I don't know, I'm asking.)
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby smiths » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:54 am

i reckon they're getting pretty fucking careful about what they print, (PM level is explosive stuff)
it was easy to name a few dead monsters and a few popstars
but it is well into dangerous territory now
(i have recollections of Fitzmas but i hope i'm wrong)


Wales child abuse inquiry in 2000 wrongly said Tory accused was dead
The Guardian, Tuesday 6 November 2012 21.40 GMT

Discrepancies have been identified between the testimony given to the Waterhouse inquiry into an alleged paedophile ring in north Wales during the 1970s and 1980s, and last week's TV claims about a living Conservative politician that have led to a new inquiry being announced.

The senior Tory alleged to have sexually abused young men was said to be dead when the report was published in 2000, but the ex-politician is still alive today.

A second, supposedly corroborative, witness was considered by Waterhouse to be talking about a completely different individual.

And the report raised the possibility that the Tory named by a former resident of Bryn Estyn children's home had been confused with a family member with the same surname. A relative of the Tory lives in the same north Wales area as the home.

Steve Messham, who gave an on-camera interview to BBC Newsnight on Friday, was identified only as "Witness B" when he testified to Waterhouse in the retired judge's heavily-sanitised report into an epidemic of sexual abuse in north Wales children's homes. Waterhouse called the alleged Tory abuser "X".

Waterhouse accepted that Messham had been repeatedly abused and psychologically damaged but concluded that Messham's evidence on "Mr X" was inconclusive. He said: "He has been described also as manipulative and there are many matters on which he is particularly vulnerable in cross-examination.

"X has the surname of a well known and large non-Welsh family and he is said to be dead now."

Waterhouse recorded: "According to B's statement to the police, X had several different motor cars and would wait for him at the bottom of Bryn Estyn Lane when he had a late pass. X would be accompanied by another paedophile now deceased and they would take B to various places.

"B alleged that he was buggered by X on four or five of these occasions, twice in the car in Moss Valley, once in the Crest Hotel at Wrexham and in the flat of Gary Cooke on the other occasions.

"Witness B was, however, very reserved about these allegations when he gave oral evidence, saying that, after a particular press article had appeared, his house and his car had been destroyed and he had received numerous threats: he was not taking any chances any more.

"He said, for example, that he knew the Christian name of X but that he was unwilling to disclose it. His recollection in the witness box was that he had seen X three times, including once at the Crest Hotel. X had a young man who was his driver and this man liked people to think he was a member of X's family. B was unable to say who had told him X's name."

Waterhouse said a 2nd witness, "C", failed to corroborate the identity of X: "He said that John Allen introduced him to two men with whom he had oral sex but that the identity of these men had not been established. However, he had purported earlier to identify one of them as a member of the X family by reference to a photocopied picture (one of four) produced to him by a journalist.

"His account had been that … he had been taken for a meal with John Allen and this man, who had paid for the meal with a gold credit card and who also had a Harrods account card. C had subsequently indicated, however, that he could not be 100% sure that his abuser was a member of the X family, and it is clear that he was referring to a different person from the man of whom B spoke."

Waterhouse concluded: "It is obvious on this evidence that we cannot be satisfied that any member of the X family was involved in paedophile activity".

However, the claims by both witnesses were repeated in last Friday's Newsnight. Angus Stickler, the reporter who has investigated the story for more than 20 years, said: "Steve has always maintained the same story and has named the same person." He said it was only Waterhouse's opinion that the two witnesses were describing different individuals who had molested them: "My view is that these are allegations that weren't investigated by Waterhouse." He said they needed to be investigated "in the light of the new public mood" after the Jimmy Savile revelations.

Richard Scorer, the solicitor who represented Messham at the Waterhouse inquiry, said that inquiry had been constrained by its terms of reference. "The inquiry was set up to examine the abuse of children in the care system … It meant it couldn't and it didn't look beyond the care system to some of the paedophile networks that were said to be operating beyond the immediate north Wales area.

"It did look at some of the things happening in Wrexham, paedophile rings operating in Wrexham, but it couldn't and didn't look beyond that."

He said: "What I think was really required once the report came out was for the police to follow up potential lines of inquiry that had been identified particularly about wider paedophile networks.


"The problem at that stage is that by the time the inquiry was set up there was a complete breakdown in trust between many victims and North Wales police and there was very little confidence that North Wales police would seriously examine investigations."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... buse/print
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:32 am

It's pretty easy to point at the whole establishment, say there are loads of protected pedophiles in there somewhere, and eventually turn out to be right. It's also courageous, in its way. If you're combining that with tales of alien lizard overlords, copious false material and generally lousy research, plus personal messianism, then you're serving to discredit all of it. You're probably discouraging others who actually know what the fuck they're talking about from venturing into the same territory. So fuck David Icke.

Day before yesterday was the first time I ended up debating 9/11 in a long time, and as has so often been the case I had to deal with good, reasonable people whose minds had been sealed shut against skepticism by the various absurdities of "Loose Change," and who couldn't overcome the "conspiracy theory" frame. Fuck all of these conspiratainers, whether they're amateurs unable to see they're out of their depth or merchant-predators, like Alex Jones. Objectively they work for the bad guys.

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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby hava007 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:19 am

re David Icke, sometimes being pushed to the margins, by pedophile crime rings can actually push a person to alternative and extremist worldviews. So, the fault is in the protection given to pedo criminals and not those who go a bit off the wall in order to survive.
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Re: Jimmy Savile: I'd like to comment but I can't...

Postby semper occultus » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:20 am

...of course there's some truth to your criticisms JR - its a fact that you can see he attracts a certain number of undesirables who feel comfortable posting anti-semitism on that board & presumably must also be detering a number of "desirables" from the other direction but :

you've got to give people some credit to operate their own filters - there's also alot of posts I've read from newbies on his forum from mainstream fora who have seen threads closed & posts deleted in front of their eyes & saying explicitly "I was put off by the lizard crap & don't believe any of it now" but who are totally prepared to evaluate & use any of his underlying data & sources without needing Icke to mediate it for them ( i'm somewhat in that camp myself...)

what are the alternatives ? anti-establishment sources like Private Eye have been rabid debunkers of SRA over the years, Robin Ramsay of Lobster magazine ( OK microscopic readership anyway ) totally turned against the Bryn Estyn whistle-blowers because some debunker called Richard Webster wrote a big heavy book about it

afaik Heath's not been (un)named yet...may happen if the tide of truth gets as far as Yachting / Jersey network....
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