Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby conniption » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:06 pm

THE 12 DAYS OF QUARANTINE - A Chris Mann Music Parody

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYFpugeUso8

Chris Mann
Premiered Nov 27, 2020
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby conniption » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 pm

How to Speak During Coronavirus


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVQ29tf ... =emb_title
•Dec 13, 2020
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:11 pm

According to a friend of a friend working in California's medical system the hospital system is about to collapse and start turning away patients.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:33 pm

Joe Hillshoist » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:11 pm wrote:According to a friend of a friend working in California's medical system the hospital system is about to collapse and start turning away patients.


L.A. County hospitals turn away ambulances, put patients in gift shop


At Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center, the breaking point came Sunday night.

There was not one available bed for at least 30 patients who needed intensive or intermediate levels of care, and the hospital had to shut its doors to all ambulance traffic for 12 hours. Some patients, including the very sick who required intensive oxygen, experienced wait times as long as 18 hours to get into the intensive care unit.

The front entrance of Community Hospital of Huntington Park was closed to the public Monday; the back of the building saw a steady stream of ambulances over the weekend, with one security guard saying the vehicles arrived as frequently as every half hour.

And Memorial Hospital of Gardena on Monday was running at 140% capacity, forcing officials to ask for a four-hour suspension of new ambulance calls so it could move patients. The hospital is struggling to keep enough oxygen and supplies on hand amid the crunch of COVID-19 patients who need it.

Snip

Hospitals are so inundated that they’ve resorted to placing patients in conference rooms and gift shops. But even so, many facilities are running out of space. Virtually all hospitals in L.A. County are being forced to divert ambulances with certain types of patients elsewhere during most hours. On Sunday, 94% of L.A. County hospitals that take in patients stemming from 911 calls were diverting some ambulances away.

More at: https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ambulances
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:12 am

.

Maybe Musk ain't so bad after all...

‘Everybody dies’: Musk says neither he nor his family will take Covid-19 vaccine, blasts Bill Gates as ‘knucklehead’

SpaceX and Tesla founder Elon Musk has said that neither he nor his family will likely take future coronavirus vaccines even when they are readily available, saying the pandemic has “diminished [his] faith in humanity.”

Speaking during a podcast interview with Kara Swisher, 49-year-old Musk stated that neither he nor his children are at risk for Covid-19 and therefore would be unlikely to need the vaccine.

“This is a no-win situation. It has diminished my faith in humanity, this whole thing… The irrationality of people in general,” Musk said.

He also decried lockdowns across the globe and in the US in particular, having previously referred to them as “unethical” and “de facto house arrest.”

Musk said widespread lockdowns were a mistake and only at-risk people should quarantine “until the storm passes.”



https://www.rt.com/news/502013-elon-mus ... s-vaccine/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I will once again cite this writer - her thoughts are a necessary addition to this thread.

https://tessa.substack.com/p/soul-in-2020

Politically Homeless: How I Kept My Soul in 2020

I'm sick of lies by corporate theologians.


Tessa Lena
Dec 25, 2020

Image

I meant to write this story as an exploration of something that pains me, “the left’s” acceptance of abusive pandemic measures as “public good.” In the process, it became a story about me in 2020. Plus, the virus, the hijacking of “compassion,” the collective trance, the left, and many other things. Please allow me to take you on a journey.

As I was standing in line at a pharmacy, the quintessential place for the pre-2020 American “normal,” with all its country music playing on the background and its standard selection on the shelves, my mind transported me to a pure and straightforward world.

A world where a novel virus showed up from bats. A world where masks work to stop the virus (as bravely and brilliantly discovered in April 2020), and strict lockdowns prevent the spread. A world where a group of benevolent rich people are working selflessly (or almost selflessly) to help the poor people of the world. My sweet child, what an easy, attractive world that is! Sweet, like a hardworking mother with kind eyes. Straight like broad-shouldered Camel smoker.

I’m almost crying now as I am typing this, crying with a longing for simplicity and ease. I LOVE that world! It’s not real but I love it. The enchanted urban forest of slogan’y compassion is very much like my grandparent’s world in which wise party leaders led the struggling workers toward the proverbial bright future, also selflessly. This. Feels. So. Good. I. Want. To. Stay.

But dreams don’t last. Tears of purity still flowing down my cheeks, this sweet world starts to slip away right through my fingers, because it’s fiction, as it’s always been. And now that it’s gone, I am alone again, with no official stories to hold on to. But then the senses kick in intensely, and the real world feels a lot more beautiful than the one I visited. Beautiful, sweeter than all fiction, and full of love, once we get through this maze of smoke and mirrors and abuse.

This year has been so abusive.

You know, back in in spring, I superworried just like everybody else. I wore a mask just in case, even though several doctors reassured me that it would be a mere symbolic gesture for a respiratory virus. Then I got sick. It was extremely unpleasant and excruciating—but it did something meaningful to me. It cleared up my head and made me particularly unsympathetic to bullshit and fear mongering. My soul rebelled against fear.

Fiercely, I realized that life exists to live it. That joy is what makes our lives worth living. That everybody has the right to be as cautious as they want—but no coercion. That death exists but we cannot live in constant fear. That it’s important to be present, to take care of your health, to eat well, to breathe freely, and to hug your loved ones. Imagine if you can live for a thousand years like a Pavlov’s dog on a leash, without hugging. Would you even take it? I wouldn’t.

And if someone believes that self-isolation and masks wearing while healthy are helpful, they are entitled to arranging their life accordingly—but not to bullying others. State-approved neurosis is still neurosis. There is abundant evidence suggesting that these “measures” are not based on science or even benevolence but frequent repetition from “trusted sources” can spook the smartest minds, so please do as you wish, just no bullying please. There are many signs that 2020 became the year when western states decided to abuse their citizens and put us against each other in novel ways. I feel like it’s not very hard to see if you look calmly and without prejudice—but I accept other people’s pace of figuring it out, and pray for peace.

Hell, because I know what it’s like to be abused and in denial of abuse, I’ll even begrudgingly wear the stupid thing for those of my close friends who want to talk in person but are scared to be close to an open human face. Friendship first! But respect goes both ways. It’s not right that some of my friends who in 2016 legitimately complained about being yelled at for voting independent (“thus endangering America”) today “despise” those who are saying no to state abuse. Despise based on what? Pravda coverage? “Can you please wear this thing because I am scared” is very different from “If you don’t wear it you are a f***ing nazi.”

Yes, there are many things about this pandemic (“pandemic” at this point, outside the spook) that break my heart. I am all up in arms about the fact that against all conventions and moral norms, there has been a visible and concerted effort to suppress and sometimes straight out ban effective treatments from all over the world (including Africa, which—surprise—is doing very well), while intentionally promoting destructive methods and protocols “in the name of science.” Our kings are heartless servants of the corporate theologians! And the journos not doing their job are the servants’ servants.

I am disgusted with the humanity-betraying politicians who have been lying shamelessly, as if—as if—they’ve been bribed by certain institutions to destroy human life as we know it and to prepare their nations for the economic and religious reform known as the Great Reset, a modern version of the Manifest Destiny. Just like the national leaders of the past centuries who mandated that their subjects convert to a new religion! Never did I think that I would have to live through a time like that!

I am vomit-level disgusted by how the elders were treated in the past ten months, from sending COVID patients to nursing homes, to locking the elders up like prisoners, to letting people die alone like cattle. In what world?!!! I have no words. How can one anyone accept this level of abuse against elders? How desensitized does one have to be to rationalize away this cold-blooded sadism?

I am outraged that it’s been known since spring that the PCR tests used to determine everything in life were as accurate as Theranos. Ten months in, with the citizens irreversibly terrorized out of their minds and the wonder product now on the market, the WHO has finally admitted that if the PCR cycle threshold is too high, the tests will produce false positives. That’s ten months too late!!!

So yes, I am pretty mad, and I don’t like it that my people, “the left,” are, like, “put your mask on and we’ll get through this.” Get through what, the pandemic that in earnest ended back in spring and now it’s just abuse?

I’ve spent months wondering why so many extremely intelligent and brave people on the left are hush about the totalitarian developments of the past ten months, despite the total absurdity of the situation. I am not talking about the highly-paid, DNC-connected apparatchiks who just say empty words while checking their bank accounts. (Those characters are timeless and attach to any paying ideology.) I mean sincere people. Some of them, the people I respect, the people who have been brave and outspoken about other “forbidden” topics. There is no reason so suspect them of fear or cowering to power—and yet, “wear your mask and we’ll get through this.”

If you are curious, let me define my politics. I think that politics is hopeless at the moment, I am allergic to the counterproductive battle of the isms, and I insist that I can can be friends with people in any camp. Historically, my American politics has been “liberal,” but in the past five years the “liberal” talking points became bizarre, as if the corporations finally succeeded at their distorted mirrors. So now I am politically homeless. I stand my human ground and try to use my heart, ideologies be damned.

Growing up, I saw the tragedy of the betrayed Soviet elders who had believed in something all their lives, fought the war for it, went through poverty for it—and then in their old age, were told by a different set of leaders and by own grandchildren that everything they had believed in was a lie. It felt so helplessly heartbreaking. So in my own life, I make a tremendous effort to filter out ideology and get to human points. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t—but I try.

Importantly, I believe that our problems are caused not by “systems” but by human choices, concrete choices of concrete human beings. Blaming “the system,” to my senses, is a cop-out, which allows one to sleep—or even march while sleeping—in the kingdom of abstractions. The “blame the system” paradigm invites “systemic thinkers” to solve existing problems, instead of inviting the wisdom of the universe and human agency. “Systemic thinkers” tend to mess things up, not because thinking big is bad but because five minutes into systemic thinking, something happens to the head, and the person turns into a conveyor operator. Every “system” on earth has been used to abuse both the nature and the people. Thus, I am convinced that the answers come not from isms but from sticking with the heart.

On a side note, I think that political divisions are being used to keep us perpetually stressed and fighting with each other instead of thinking straight. I actually believe that our in-television battling “talking heads” get along with each other just fine. My theory is that they yell at each other on TV, get everybody angry, and then laugh together at the impressionable peasants. Like, imagine you are in a movie scene, in the middle of the ocean. There are three characters: you, Trump, and Biden. One of them (Trump or Biden, pick any) is in a life boat that fits two people. If he can only take one along, whom will he take? I fear that it’s not you.

So, why are so many of “the left” not concerned about the nightmarish totalitarian developments? My theory is that it’s because of that hijacked compassion trigger—and also because of isms.

First, let’s talk about the hijacked “compassion.” Left-leaning people tend to psychologically identify with “social justice”—which is healthy and praiseworthy, except at times when cunning propagandists distort the language and swap meanings of important words, while the emotion is still pointing to where it thinks it sees the kindness. Don’t forget, a lot of horror happened in the early Soviet Union because the leaders labeled murder and robbery as “public good,” and then sold the updated definitions to the masses.

And undeniably, today, the propagandists of the Great Reset etc. are redefining the willingness to self-abuse as “kindness” and compassion. That is the beast I know well. That emotional condition was very heavy in the Soviet culture. I spent many years getting it out of my system because it harmed me. So when I saw it here and now, I recognized it and said no. But those who have never dealt with it—and especially those who might be feeling guilty for having comfort—hello, the work from home class—are more vulnerable to this beast, especially when they get it from the “trusted sources.”

So what the machine is doing is telling well-intended people that they are “good” if they follow the instructions from those “trusted sources.” My observation is that the people who have experienced true hardship at the hands of the machine in the past don’t go for it—but the ones who might be feeling guilty for their comfortable status go for it gladly, as if it gives them a sense of redemption and belonging. So we end up with this:



...

Solutions? I think, again, that balanced solutions can only come from a very pure place in the heart, not from “ideas.” Ideas can be very good but they need to be guided by the sense of human decency and be rooted in an appreciation of free will. So, what we are doing now doesn’t work.

Maybe we can make a leap of faith and try to remember the point in time when the separation from nature started?

Once upon a time, people knew that nature was their parent, not their enemy or an inanimate resource. Then some freshly minted leaders invented “progress” and started shaming (and killing) people who still wanted to be free and live with nature. In some parts of the planet it happened earlier, in some parts of the planet it happened recently.

When the people from Europe—where it happened earlier—first came to the Americas, they started shaming (and killing) the people who were still free and were close to nature. It wasn’t about “white people” and “people of color,” it was about the people who had long forgotten their roots in nature subjugated the people who still remembered and probably couldn’t imagine the depth of brokenness and obscenity that existed in the souls of their invaders.

The invaders did the “divide and conquer” thing, playing free people and free nations against each other. This is how the country was born. And today, again, the leaders and the digital invaders are inventing “progress” and trying to separate the people from each other and from nature even further, this time with AI, fancy tech, and a lot of bullying.

So I think that in order to start solving it, we need to forget about isms and to sing songs of camaraderie and gratitude for all people who have ever wanted to be free and live with nature, and sing songs of sorrow and healing for all people who wanted to take the freedom and the dignity away from others. And most importantly, as we sing, we need to protect and honor our hearts.

I think that we are looking at a tremendous opportunity for healing. Maybe this time around we can remember not to fall into the “divide and conquer” trap that our invaders have set up? Maybe this time around we can remember that if we fall into the trap, we’ll hurt ourselves a lot?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:07 am

"it’s important to be present, to take care of your health, to eat well, to breathe freely, and to hug your loved ones."

Why? I'm so tired of everyone telling me what to do. It's exhaustingly tedious.

Ponderous. I just don't get where people are coming from, most of the time. The attitudes and thinking are foreign to me, like a different planet than the one I live on. I understand what the words mean, but I just don't know what they are on about.

Not that hell is other people or anything like that, I get along equally well in a crowd, in a small group, or one on one. And all alone, especially. But to hear people go on, it's like I'm hearing about what life is like on Mars.

That isn't to say I insist with the writer of the above piece that "I can be friends with people in any camp." I can be, I just don't want to.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:14 pm

.

Dada:
I'm so tired of everyone telling me what to do. It's exhaustingly tedious.


If the above is an earnest -- rather than flippant/tongue-in-cheek -- response, it's interesting to me that you type about such 'exhaustion' in response to a comment by an obscure online author, but you haven't been inspired to express this sentiment previously at the far more overt, egregious, and MANDATED ORDERS by local/federal govts and bureaucrats telling you what to do for the better part of the last year.

Of course, it should also go without saying that the author was presenting her thoughts as suggestions.
She certainly has no authority to enforce such recommendations, needless to say.

But let's say for a moment that she did indeed have the power to enforce her views on others. I'll take her approach over those of the vile beasts in power every time. And so would millions of others currently struggling mentally, spiritually, monetarily.


Meanwhile:

...State Rep. Mary Franson said she has enlisted a team to examine data provided by Minnesota’s health department. Her team allegedly found that COVID-19 was blamed for some deaths clearly not linked to the respiratory disease.

“We found clear-cut examples from the Minnesota Department of Health’s own files—public records—of suicide, a drowning, an auto accident where the passenger was ejected from the vehicle, we found dementia … and strokes,” Franson said during an interview with Fox News, adding that she was “so shocked at what I found that I just could not keep silent.”
“The citizens of our country are being led in fear, and that fear is leading them to make irrational decisions based on the governors with their shutdowns,” she added.
“So we need this audit. We need the truth.”

Franson was joined by Republican State Sen. Scott Jensen, a practicing physician. Jensen has become the subject of two state probes earlier this year for arguing that the federal and state guidelines on reporting COVID-19 deaths could pressure local authorities to misclassify and inflate their numbers, and that doctors and hospitals are motivated to do so for more health care dollars.

“If you could hit a threshold of 161 admissions to your hospital with COVID-19 diagnosis between January and June, you received $77,000 of additional money for each one of those admissions” through the CARES Act, Jensen told Fox News.

“I don’t think there’s any questions that reverse incentives have been created.”

In response to the allegations, the Minnesota Department of Health said the way it classifies COVID-19 deaths is consistent with the guidelines from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“We’re absolutely following the national guidance on how we are doing our death reporting from COVID-19,” Infectious Disease Director Kris Ehresmann told Fox News. “If someone had tested positive for COVID and then subsequently died, we would review the death certificate and motor vehicle accident would be the cause of death and so it would not be considered a COVID death.”


Of course. They're simply complying with the CDC. No wrongs being committed.

Nuremberg defense.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:53 pm

I have no problem with being earnest and flippant at the same time.

I just don't agree with your narrative. Bureaucrats will always tell everybody what to do, that hasn't changed in the last year. They aren't telling me what to do, I don't take it personally. Neither would I feel comforted knowing that millions of people agree with me. I'd actually find it very disturbing.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby PufPuf93 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:10 pm

dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:07 am wrote:"it’s important to be present, to take care of your health, to eat well, to breathe freely, and to hug your loved ones."

Why? I'm so tired of everyone telling me what to do. It's exhaustingly tedious.

Ponderous. I just don't get where people are coming from, most of the time. The attitudes and thinking are foreign to me, like a different planet than the one I live on. I understand what the words mean, but I just don't know what they are on about.

Not that hell is other people or anything like that, I get along equally well in a crowd, in a small group, or one on one. And all alone, especially. But to hear people go on, it's like I'm hearing about what life is like on Mars.

That isn't to say I insist with the writer of the above piece that "I can be friends with people in any camp." I can be, I just don't want to.


Thank you dada.

I find your thoughts comforting.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:36 pm

dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:53 am wrote:I have no problem with being earnest and flippant at the same time.

I just don't agree with your narrative. Bureaucrats will always tell everybody what to do, that hasn't changed in the last year. They aren't telling me what to do, I don't take it personally. Neither would I feel comforted knowing that millions of people agree with me. I'd actually find it very disturbing.


You're misrepresenting my narrative.

And to say things haven't changed in the past year is absurd. Perhaps they haven't for you specifically, or even for quite a few of us, in some respects. But things have, in fact, changed. One needs only to step outside to see it.

YOU, and others, may be in a position to ignore what the bureaucrats may say or mandate --- for now.

My focus is on the impact of decisions or mandates by authority figures on the aggregate populations.

You can continue to do as you wish, for as long as you can, depending on your particular circumstances. Same goes with me or anyone anywhere.

That doesn't change the fact that efforts are being made to infringe upon individual agency.

They may succeed, they may not. And even if they do succeed to some degree, it may turn out that YOU, dada, will find a way to keep doing whatever you choose to do, or adapt accordingly. I applaud you, if so.

Many others may well be placed in positions outside of their will, or have family members under their care that will be negatively impacted. Many others already have been negatively impacted by mandates over the past year. People have died or lost their livelihoods as a direct result of bureaucratic decisions.

That may change over time, for better or worse, depending on the mindsets of the people in aggregate.
But it's not so simple as that, is it? There are many layers of propaganda out there. Discernment is not the default position of those consumed by media. This applies to those that follow 'official' narratives, and those that subscribe to poisoned well 'anti-establishment' narratives.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:06 pm

You're most welcome, PufPuf.

*

I'm not ignoring the bureaucrats, I'm just saying I don't take it personally.

So the 'for now' doesn't really apply to me. Also, continuing to do as I wish is not contingent on time and circumstance.

I gather this is not the same for everyone everywhere. Although maybe it could be, I guess. I'm reminded of when an interviewer asked John Cage about the chance operations he applied to compose his music and poetry. The interviewer says to Cage, "but, chance operations are random processes. Can't anyone do it?" And Cage answers, "Yes. But they don't."
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby DrEvil » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:53 pm

Belligerent Savant » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:36 pm wrote:
dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:53 am wrote:I have no problem with being earnest and flippant at the same time.

I just don't agree with your narrative. Bureaucrats will always tell everybody what to do, that hasn't changed in the last year. They aren't telling me what to do, I don't take it personally. Neither would I feel comforted knowing that millions of people agree with me. I'd actually find it very disturbing.


You're misrepresenting my narrative.

And to say things haven't changed in the past year is absurd. Perhaps they haven't for you specifically, or even for quite a few of us, in some respects. But things have, in fact, changed. One needs only to step outside to see it.

YOU, and others, may be in a position to ignore what the bureaucrats may say or mandate --- for now.

My focus is on the impact of decisions or mandates by authority figures on the aggregate populations.

You can continue to do as you wish, for as long as you can, depending on your particular circumstances. Same goes with me or anyone anywhere.

That doesn't change the fact that efforts are being made to infringe upon individual agency.


You mean like wearing seat belts or not hitting your children or not drunk driving or not doing insider trading or not being able to go naked in public? Individual agency isn't absolute, never has been. It's called being part of a society and includes things like not going around spreading disease if you can avoid it. Wearing a mask is no more onerous than putting on pants or a shirt before leaving the house.

They may succeed, they may not. And even if they do succeed to some degree, it may turn out that YOU, dada, will find a way to keep doing whatever you choose to do, or adapt accordingly. I applaud you, if so.

Many others may well be placed in positions outside of their will, or have family members under their care that will be negatively impacted. Many others already have been negatively impacted by mandates over the past year. People have died or lost their livelihoods as a direct result of bureaucratic decisions.


And you could argue that many have lost their lives due to you and many others downplaying the dangers of the virus by confusing the fucked up economic response with how to handle an outbreak. What's the latest count? 350,000 dead Americans, 3700 on Wednesday alone. Those kinds of numbers used to be considered acts of war and national tragedies.

The hospitals are full, and considering the holidays are just over it will get worse before it gets better. And of course the vaccine rollout is already a clusterfuck.

"Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make".

That may change over time, for better or worse, depending on the mindsets of the people in aggregate.
But it's not so simple as that, is it? There are many layers of propaganda out there. Discernment is not the default position of those consumed by media. This applies to those that follow 'official' narratives, and those that subscribe to poisoned well 'anti-establishment' narratives.


Like the AIER pieces or the endless repetition of "masks don't protect you!" you've been pushing?
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:01 pm

.
dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:06 pm wrote:You're most welcome, PufPuf.

*

I'm not ignoring the bureaucrats, I'm just saying I don't take it personally.

So the 'for now' doesn't really apply to me. Also, continuing to do as I wish is not contingent on time and circumstance.

I gather this is not the same for everyone everywhere. Although maybe it could be, I guess. I'm reminded of when an interviewer asked John Cage about the chance operations he applied to compose his music and poetry. The interviewer says to Cage, "but, chance operations are random processes. Can't anyone do it?" And Cage answers, "Yes. But they don't."


I can appreciate that you may not take the actions or agendas of the bureaucrats personally. Others have no such luxury, as they've been personally impacted detrimentally/demonstrably.

I get your point, however. Truth is, I don't disagree with a fair bit of it. I'm looking at current events in practical terms, however.



One may ruminate on the damage that may or may not be caused by a hammer. Until, of course, the hammer comes down forcefully on one's head.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:18 pm

DrEvil » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:53 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:36 pm wrote:
dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:53 am wrote:I have no problem with being earnest and flippant at the same time.

I just don't agree with your narrative. Bureaucrats will always tell everybody what to do, that hasn't changed in the last year. They aren't telling me what to do, I don't take it personally. Neither would I feel comforted knowing that millions of people agree with me. I'd actually find it very disturbing.


You're misrepresenting my narrative.

And to say things haven't changed in the past year is absurd. Perhaps they haven't for you specifically, or even for quite a few of us, in some respects. But things have, in fact, changed. One needs only to step outside to see it.

YOU, and others, may be in a position to ignore what the bureaucrats may say or mandate --- for now.

My focus is on the impact of decisions or mandates by authority figures on the aggregate populations.

You can continue to do as you wish, for as long as you can, depending on your particular circumstances. Same goes with me or anyone anywhere.

That doesn't change the fact that efforts are being made to infringe upon individual agency.


You mean like wearing seat belts or not hitting your children or not drunk driving or not doing insider trading or not being able to go naked in public? Individual agency isn't absolute, never has been. It's called being part of a society and includes things like not going around spreading disease if you can avoid it. Wearing a mask is no more onerous than putting on pants or a shirt before leaving the house.

They may succeed, they may not. And even if they do succeed to some degree, it may turn out that YOU, dada, will find a way to keep doing whatever you choose to do, or adapt accordingly. I applaud you, if so.

Many others may well be placed in positions outside of their will, or have family members under their care that will be negatively impacted. Many others already have been negatively impacted by mandates over the past year. People have died or lost their livelihoods as a direct result of bureaucratic decisions.


And you could argue that many have lost their lives due to you and many others downplaying the dangers of the virus by confusing the fucked up economic response with how to handle an outbreak. What's the latest count? 350,000 dead Americans, 3700 on Wednesday alone. Those kinds of numbers used to be considered acts of war and national tragedies.

The hospitals are full, and considering the holidays are just over it will get worse before it gets better. And of course the vaccine rollout is already a clusterfuck.

"Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make".

That may change over time, for better or worse, depending on the mindsets of the people in aggregate.
But it's not so simple as that, is it? There are many layers of propaganda out there. Discernment is not the default position of those consumed by media. This applies to those that follow 'official' narratives, and those that subscribe to poisoned well 'anti-establishment' narratives.


Like the AIER pieces or the endless repetition of "masks don't protect you!" you've been pushing?


I'll break this down in parts:

You mean like wearing seat belts or not hitting your children or not drunk driving or not doing insider trading or not being able to go naked in public? Individual agency isn't absolute, never has been. It's called being part of a society and includes things like not going around spreading disease if you can avoid it. Wearing a mask is no more onerous than putting on pants or a shirt before leaving the house.


Please. Poor strawman examples, and I never indicated agency to be exclusive, to be applied across the board at all times. You're wholly misrepresenting my point here.

Use common sense. Take precautions. Don't be foolish. The point I'm making is there are unnecessary and utterly totalitarian control measures being implemented -- not to mention despicable FEAR-MONGERING -- that ARE NOT commensurate with the ACTUAL RISK.


And you could argue that many have lost their lives due to you and many others downplaying the dangers of the virus by confusing the fucked up economic response with how to handle an outbreak. What's the latest count? 350,000 dead Americans, 3700 on Wednesday alone. Those kinds of numbers used to be considered acts of war and national tragedies.

The hospitals are full, and considering the holidays are just over it will get worse before it gets better. And of course the vaccine rollout is already a clusterfuck.


You are fully subscribing, without any scrutiny or question, to the BS mainstream narratives, unfortunately. It's all the more clear, as months go on, that these BS talking points are of little merit. LOCKDOWNS have NOT decreased death tallies. LOCKDOWNS HAVE, on the other hand, INCREASED depression, rates of suicide, job loss, and DEATHS DUE TO LOCKDOWNS (people too frightened to go to a hospital; persons that are terminally ill or seriously ill avoiding hospital visits, etc.).

MASKS also have NOT shown to decrease anything. There are stats available that show case counts fluctuate up and down, over time, across jurisdictions REGARDLESS OF MANDATES IN PLACE IN EACH JURISDICTION (and here, I'll take the 'case' counts at face value, even though they are prone to false positives -- PCR tests are deeply flawed, especially when cycle thresholds are anywhere above the ~30 range, which many of them are). In other words, mask/lockdown mandate or not, case counts are going up or down consistently and mandates have not alleviated this, despite false-framing by authorities and media.

Masks may well INCREASE the potential to catch a virus. Cloth masks are not intended for extended wear, and mask use only increases the prevalence of touching your face, which in turn increases your chances of catching a virus. There are studies that have shown a coronavirus can live in a mask up to 8 days.

There have been numerous reports of hospitals not being nearly as tapped out as claimed by the press.

The Death tallies have been shown for months now to be misleading or outright FRAUDULENT. There's ample information out there about this. Scroll up on this page for just one example (Minnesota's faulty death counts -- many of the other U.S. States do the same).

Continue to subscribe to your narratives, of course -- we've went over all this many times. Stay indoors, as you choose to do. You will have your position, I will have mine.

I will continue to take sensible precautions, but will continue to go out, will not wear masks outdoors, and will interact with friends and family as I have been since this hyped up BS started. I have friends and family that are health practitioners, work in hospitals regularly. I don't simply go by what the narrative-framers tell me.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:28 pm

"One may ruminate on the damage that may or may not be caused by a hammer. Until, of course, the hammer comes down forcefully on one's head."

It always comes back to this, doesn't it? The ominous prophecy. It may play in Peoria, but I don't think it makes for much of an argument.

Things can effect me personally that I don't take personally. There's no need to project luxury and impracticality onto my words.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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