9/11 Cult Watch

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The role of 9/11 Cult Watch in the UK

Postby chrisc » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:17 am

orz wrote:Oh fair enough, I was more referring to the UK where the truth movement is really not making a good impression on the old guard of anti-war/anarchist/hippie/leftist types, hence, well, the site we're discussing for one thing.


I'll second that!

In fact on a thread on truthaction.org titled Dazzled by Disinfo: 911cultwatch.org.uk I said:

chrisc wrote:The main problem I have with 911cultwatch.org.uk is that by failing to separate the disinformation from the good information (for example the overwhelming evidence for controlled demolition) they end up performing the same role as the MSM and the debunking sites, but from the left -- I have heard many lefties / anarchist / anti-capitalist types cite 911cultwatch.org.uk as proof that there is nothing of substance in any of the criticism of the official story of 911, this is the function they appear to serve.


Another thread you might find interesting is The UK's Big Tent: nineeleven.co.uk

I just found this site via the latest post on the 9/11 Cult Watch blog... hello everyone 8)
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Postby Penguin » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:19 am

Hello and welcome :)
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Postby orz » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:20 am

again, i'd like to reiterate that different pieces of evidence cause the penny to drop for different people

Worth noting that for me and an increasing number of other people the standard of 'evidence' supplied by the 9/11 Truth Fandom is causing the penny to rapidly rise up again.
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Re: The role of 9/11 Cult Watch in the UK

Postby Jeff » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:25 am

chrisc wrote:I just found this site via the latest post on the 9/11 Cult Watch blog... hello everyone 8)


Welcome, Chris!

Here's the post:

March 20, 2008
Rigorous? Naah, let's see what's on YouTube!

It seems 9/11 Cultwatch is very much the centre of attention these days!

Over at the website Rigorous Intuition, 9/11 truthers appear to have got a tad excited at the fact this blog mentions reading Rudolph Giuliani's book "Leadership". After all, studying primary sources is, by and large, an alien concept to 'truth' activists.

Poster orz though, did respond with this rather heavy blow:

"Yes, because we all know true 9/11 researchers wouldn't stoop so low as to read Giuliani's book when researching Giuliani. Why can't these spooky spooks just watch recontextualised interview clips on youtube like any reasonable and intelligent person would?"

You took the words right out of our mouth!
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Postby orz » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:28 am

haha fame at last! :)
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Postby lunarose » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:30 am

hello orz.

'Worth noting that for me and an increasing number of other people the standard of 'evidence' supplied by the 9/11 Truth Fandom is causing the penny to rapidly rise up again.'

THE FOLLOWING IS COMPLETELY UNSOLICITED ADVICE:
well, then i would suggest getting the type of evidence you think is compelling out there, instead of just complaining about what other people are doing. i think brainpanhandler makes a good point here:

'One camp speaks to the "masses" in a way that seems the most convincing and the other camp speaks to a smaller, but potentially more influential in it's own way, audience about the more complicated money trail. Are we really at cross purposes? This seems to me ideal. In fact, if we were to all sit down and discuss the best way to convince as many people as possible about the "truth" of 9/11 we might well conceive of just such a two pronged approach. '
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Postby Jeff » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:34 am

lunarose wrote:well, then i would suggest getting the type of evidence you think is compelling out there, instead of just complaining about what other people are doing.


I think a very good effort was made with 9/11: Press for Truth (which was derided by collapse obsessives as a "limited hangout.")

Why it didn't receive the play of "Loose Change" would make an interesting study.
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Postby orz » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:36 am

i think brainpanhandler makes a good point here:


Yep that is a good point, I agree to some extent. Alas I have little or no compelling evidence.

Via 9/11 Cult Watch I just had a look at the amazon page for one of the other books listed and found this review for "The Enemy of My Enemy" by George Michael -

An excellent case study, 5 Oct 2007
By Wayne Redhart (West Midlands, UK)

George Michael's extensively researched guide (with a short foreword by Andrew Ridgley) makes for an intriguing read. It seems that many 'Bad Boys' of the far right are now siding in a 'Different Corner'- with religious extremists (despite their lack of 'Faith'). While most Americans are still trying to 'Heal the Pain' of September the 11th (a particularly 'Hard Day' for the nation), others are 'Waiting for that Day' when the next atrocity will take place. We can always be sure of at least 'One More Try' by the 'Young Guns' who continue to operate 'Outside' of moral boundaries. Only 'Last Christmas' an attack on 'Club Tropicana' was narrowly averted. If it hadn't been for a 'Careless Whisper' by a member of the sleeper cell, the plan would have been activated with the code-words 'Wake Me Up Before You Go Go'.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... epad0dc-21

:D :roll:
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Latest from 911 Cultwatch on nineeleven.co.uk

Postby chrisc » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:41 am

BTW probably also worth pointing out the latest thread from the 9/11 Cult Watch people, Larry O'Hara and Paul Stott on nineeleven.co.uk: 911 Cultwatch demands Dave & Annie disclose all.

Towards the end of this thread I point out that they are strongly linked to Nico "plane huggers are pedophiles" Haupt -- they link to his blog as being essential:

Image

And in response Larry O'Hara labels me as a "low-life" and accuses me of spreading "disinformation", "being fans of this sad muppet" (Nico Haupt) and "advertising for Haupt" :roll:

Also in this thread Paul Stott explains why they have such a prominent link to Nico Haupt:

Paul Stott wrote:The 9/11 Truthlings site is a perfect introduction to the world of 9/11 truth.
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Postby lunarose » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:50 am

oh boy orz! that cracked me up. we went to the screening of Press For Truth at the grand lake theatre, and i've been recommending it to everyone since. i think it is especially effective for people who are completely horrified at the idea of anything besides the 'gov't story'.

i'm guessing it hasn't got the play that loose change has because it's not free on the internet, which is understandable because it cost money to make, but.......

i also like the coincidence theory guide to 9/11 that jeff did on his rig int blog as an intro to all the unanswered questions.

and Kristin Breitweiser's statements to congress and the investigating committees are really well thought out, comprehensive, and powerful. i try to point people to her work. here's a sample:

http://www.unansweredquestions.org/time ... 1802b.html
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Two "camps"

Postby chrisc » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:51 am

lunarose wrote:i think brainpanhandler makes a good point here:

'One camp speaks to the "masses" in a way that seems the most convincing and the other camp speaks to a smaller, but potentially more influential in it's own way, audience about the more complicated money trail. Are we really at cross purposes? This seems to me ideal. In fact, if we were to all sit down and discuss the best way to convince as many people as possible about the "truth" of 9/11 we might well conceive of just such a two pronged approach. '


Makes sense to me, for people who are not interested in the nature of the destruction of the buildings I point them at Press for Truth, Nafeez Ahmed, Peter Dale-Scott and such like and I think this is a very important approach to the matter, but it takes more studying than the Jim Hoffman / Richage Gauge / Steven Jones, the buildings were blown up approach.

Over at the Truth Action forum there are activists who take both approaches and people mostly manage to aviod getting into pointless personall attacks (and if they don't they get banned...) -- I don't see why these two approaches can't both be persued, I think both are critical.

Check out these fantastic talks by Nafeez Ahmed on UK Indymedia:

The Hidden Holocaust - Our Civilizational Crisis
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/01/388961.html

Ties With Terror: Western-Al-Qaeda Relations in the Post-Cold War Period
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/04/368971.html

International Terrorism: The Secret History
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/11/356939.html

Creating Terror
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/07/376665.html
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Postby Jeff » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:57 am

lunarose wrote:
i'm guessing it hasn't got the play that loose change has because it's not free on the internet, which is understandable because it cost money to make, but.......


Actually that's not true. The link I posted above is to the complete video; it's been available online for a couple of years (since it's release).
Last edited by Jeff on Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Press for Truth

Postby chrisc » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:57 am

lunarose wrote:i'm guessing it hasn't got the play that loose change has because it's not free on the internet, which is understandable because it cost money to make, but.......


That was the case at first, it kept getting pulled, but it has been available for a while: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4255077250
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Postby Penguin » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:10 pm

Im not gonna go to any fanboi thingsies, Im a man unto myself only...
Here are some pics, none of them about WTCs..Just for fun!
Pics of demolished buildings, and pics of buildings that fell due to earthquakes etc.. Food for thought, as it seems youre all hungry after such serious dogfighting :)

http://www.howstuffworks.com/building-implosion.htm
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/de_construct ... 285597.php (this one is simply COOL, no other reason :) )

http://www.blasterexchange.com/resource ... php?res=19
Heres some good ones, of different kinds of controlled demolitions, both implosions to buildings own footprint, and of directed side collapses.
Ive seen a couple of this type myself, where very high chimneys were collapsed to the side. The demo guys spent days measuring the thing and planning the explosive charges, for there was just one direction where the chimney (tens of meters tall, brick) could fall without damaging the factory around..

http://www.biggerblast.com/ Here, some nice videos as well, "Welcome to Advanced Explosives Demolition ", also very nice pictures.

And heres a nice collection of toppled buildings, toppled as in asymmetrically collapsed, due to asymmetrical failing of structures. This is what usually happens when some load bearing member is damaged, but not all of them, at the exact same time.

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/20 ... -over.html

http://images.google.fi/images?q=kobe+e ... s&ct=title Kobe Earthquake pics, via Google

"The role of the fire in weakening the steel where the collisions occurred is undoubted, as is the ineffectiveness of the fire protection foam, which seems to have been blown off. However, this can only cause a local collapse, depositing an unusual load on the floors below. It is their response, of a structure unweakened by fire or impact, that is significant, and this topic was brushed aside in the program. In fact, an erroneous graphic of floors collapsing on one another successively, "pancaking," was shown, while the collapse of the towers was quite different, the upper floors ending up on the bottom of the pile and the lower floors on the top. One commentator actually mentioned the buckling of the wall (without mentioning buckling), but did not follow up.

More detail was presented on the core, which contained the stairways and elevators, plus building services such as firefighting water (which was only interrupted in the North Tower). This core never appears in the videos as an element of strength, though the floor trusses were supported on it. One might suspect that when the outer walls failed, the core was simply pulled apart and collapsed. The collapse of the North Tower shows the TV antenna initially falling, though the walls were already clearly in collapse. The conclusion that the central core failed in this case pulling down the outside seems very ill-founded. In the views of the South Tower, there is no evidence at all of the core. In both cases, the collapse was simultaneous around the building, not asymmetrical.

It should be recognized that the damage to the towers was different, as the program made clear, so we have two examples of this kind of failure, not just one. The program stays away from the embarrassing conclusion that this kind of structure has an inherent failure mode, as I have suggested. Perhaps we must have further examples to make this clear. The Empire State Building was also struck by an airplane (a bomber) that did considerable damage, but there was no hint whatever that the building was in danger. One suspects that if an airplane struck a building with a volume skeleton, there would be no total collapse, only local damage. Rubbish from the collapsed part would fall outward to the sides, not pry the building apart from the inside." http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/failure.htm Just some blog musings...

Collapsed Building Ad Yanked
Vendors distance themselves from material inadvertently reminiscent of terrorist attacks.

http://pcworld.about.com/news/Sep142001id62064.htm

"The horrible image of the World Trade Center tumbling into destruction after a terrorist attack is not something any company wants to be associated with.

That's why PowerQuest has pulled an advertisement that used a demolished building to promote a new version of its Drive Image software. The ad was scheduled to run in 13 publications this month.

Other companies with images or products that might appear related to the disaster have also taken action to avoid criticism by a public that has become highly sensitized.

The publisher of the online role-playing game Majestic, an interactive thriller involving murder and corporate intrigue, suspended the popular game after Tuesday's attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon. Another computer game, in which players defend the World Trade Center from kamikaze pilots, has also been withdrawn. The game, WTC Defender, had been available for download at Angelfire.com. In the game, players had to shoot down planes heading for the twin towers. If an aircraft managed to get through, the buildings blew up. A note on the game site reads: "WTC Defender--the game has been removed. Please note--the game was not meant to offend anyone, my deepest condolences to all of you who have lost someone in this tragedy." "

Wow, nobody thought of planes as weapons, right? :)

Im just saying, get your heads out of your asses, every one of you. Both you "it was explosives" people, and you "IT WAS NOT EXPLOSIVES" people. How about some real discussion? Im looking at two groups headbutting each other in the face here, for the majority of over ten pages. Not constructive. Rather demolishing, Id say :)

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Postby FourthBase » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:13 pm

Another computer game, in which players defend the World Trade Center from kamikaze pilots, has also been withdrawn. The game, WTC Defender, had been available for download at Angelfire.com. In the game, players had to shoot down planes heading for the twin towers. If an aircraft managed to get through, the buildings blew up.


WTF???
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