Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathread

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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:54 pm

American Dream wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:
American Dream wrote:
This brings to mind the immortal teachings of that great master of wisdom- Donald Rumsfeld:


There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. ”



indeed. He is vile but he is right about that. I remember the context when he said it, and I find it disgusting, however, that statement is correct.




Slavoj Zizek commented on this in his piece What Rumsfeld Doesn't Know That He Knows About Abu Ghraib and his words are also relevant to the Intelligent Design issue itself:


In March 2003, Rumsfeld engaged in a little bit of amateur philosophizing about the relationship between the known and the unknown: "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." What he forgot to add was the crucial fourth term: the "unknown knowns," the things we don't know that we know-which is precisely, the Freudian unconscious, the "knowledge which doesn't know itself," as Lacan used to say.

If Rumsfeld thinks that the main dangers in the confrontation with Iraq were the "unknown unknowns," that is, the threats from Saddam whose nature we cannot even suspect, then the Abu Ghraib scandal shows that the main dangers lie in the "unknown knowns" - the disavowed beliefs, suppositions and obscene practices we pretend not to know about, even though they form the background of our public values.



Thanks for that AD,
RI is the only place I know where a Zen anarcho-libertarian cybersocialist like myself can find himself agreeing with Donald Rumsfeld AND Slavoj Zizek - in the same post! :lol2:
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Project Willow » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:04 pm

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Marty Gordon, retired preacher.
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:21 pm

I find it quite alarming how that T-Rex seems to be eyeing Jesus -
'allowing Jesus into your life' doesnt mean EATING him. :(
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:22 pm

*

the insider critique of Christianity: Kierkegaard.











edit: relevant for the OP and our times. check it out.

*
Last edited by vanlose kid on Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Project Willow » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:36 pm

Searcher08 wrote:I find it quite alarming how that T-Rex seems to be eyeing Jesus -
'allowing Jesus into your life' doesnt mean EATING him. :(


Perhaps given the nature of a T-Rex that's exactly what it would mean.

:shrug:

............

I should append a new sig line just for this thread:

I don't know. :shrug: I am at least ambivalent about not knowing, if not content, but I don't want to advocate another belief system.
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:43 pm

How can I say...
I will try to listen to different points of view without prejudice and
knowing that I may be bring prejudice to what I hear, and
that its in the nature of the brain to
seek and run with the first answer and ignore others, and I will
stop and look around and see if I can
find these other elusive answers and see if
they can teach me too... and
I will think for myself and
be responsible
for the precious resource of my attention and thought process,
knowing that
if I choose not to decide to think for myself,
someone or something else will.
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Project Willow » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:53 pm

^ Did I say something offensive or hurtful?

I've hardly said much really, and should go back into lurk mode, if only for my own sanity.
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:58 pm

Project Willow wrote:^ Did I say something offensive or hurtful?

I've hardly said much really, and should go back into lurk mode, if only for my own sanity.


no, you didn't. :)
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:05 pm

Project Willow wrote:^ Did I say something offensive or hurtful?

I've hardly said much really, and should go back into lurk mode, if only for my own sanity.


Hey, your idea for a sig made me think up with one for myself - that was an inspiration from you not a criticism! It was meant to poke fun at MY wind-baggery :) I was trying to write what I was learning from the thread :hug1:
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby American Dream » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:14 pm

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"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything."
-Malcolm X
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:23 pm

^ ^

fresh flame bait from the critical thinker. anyone?

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:27 pm

AD,I take your bad cartoons and reply with a pie fight
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:33 pm

Johari Window
Image

A Johari window is a cognitive psychological tool created by Joseph Luft and Harry Ingham in 1955[1] in the United States, used to help people better understand their interpersonal communication and relationships. It is used primarily in self-help groups and corporate settings as a heuristic exercise.

When performing the exercise, subjects are given a list of 56 adjectives and pick five or six that they feel describe their own personality. Peers of the subject are then given the same list, and each pick five or six adjectives that describe the subject. These adjectives are then mapped onto a grid.[2]

Charles Handy calls this concept the Johari House with four rooms. Room 1 is the part of ourselves that we see and others see. Room 2 is the aspects that others see but we are not aware of. Room 3 is the most mysterious room in that the unconscious or subconscious part of us is seen by neither ourselves nor others. Room 4 is our private space, which we know but keep from others.

The concept is clearly related to the ideas propounded in the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator program, which in turn derive from theories about the personality first explored by psychologist Carl Jung.
Contents
[hide]

1 Quadrants
2 Johari adjectives
3 Motivational equivalent
4 References
5 External links

[edit] Quadrants

Open: Adjectives that are selected by both the participant and his or her peers are placed into the Open quadrant. This quadrant represents traits of the subjects that both they and their peers are aware of.

Hidden: Adjectives selected only by subjects, but not by any of their peers, are placed into the Hidden quadrant, representing information about them their peers are unaware of. It is then up to the subject to disclose this information or not.

Blind Spot: Adjectives that are not selected by subjects but only by their peers are placed into the Blind Spot quadrant. These represent information that the subject is not aware of, but others are, and they can decide whether and how to inform the individual about these "blind spots".

Unknown: Adjectives that were not selected by either subjects or their peers remain in the Unknown quadrant, representing the participant's behaviors or motives that were not recognized by anyone participating. This may be because they do not apply or because there is collective ignorance of the existence of these traits.
[edit] Johari adjectives

A Johari window consists of the following 56 adjectives used as possible descriptions of the participant. In alphabetical order they are:

able
accepting
adaptable
bold
brave
calm
caring
cheerful
clever
complex
confident



dependable
dignified
energetic
extroverted
friendly
giving
happy
helpful
idealistic
independent
ingenious



intelligent
introverted
kind
knowledgeable
logical
loving
mature
modest
nervous
observant
organized



patient
powerful
proud
quiet
reflective
relaxed
religious
responsive
searching
self-assertive
self-conscious



sensible
sentimental
shy
silly
smart
spontaneous
sympathetic
tense
trustworthy
warm
wise
witty

[edit] Motivational equivalent

The concept of meta-emotions categorized by basic emotions offers the possibility of a meta-emotional window as a motivational counterpart to the meta-cognitive Johari window.
[edit] References

^ Luft, J.; Ingham, H. (1955). "The Johari window, a graphic model of interpersonal awareness". Proceedings of the western training laboratory in group development (Los Angeles: UCLA).
^ Luft, Joseph (1969). Of Human Interaction. Palo Alto, CA: National Press. pp. 177.

Luft, Joseph (1972). Einfuhrung in die Gruppendynamik. Klett.
Hase, Steward; Alan Davies, Bob Dick (1999). The Johari Window and the Dark Side of Organisations. Southern Cross University.
Handy, Charles (2000). 21 Ideas for Managers. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass. ISBN 014027510X.
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby barracuda » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:51 pm

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The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Critical Thinking, reductionism, epistemology RI megathr

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:57 pm

vanlose kid wrote:^ ^

fresh flame bait from the critical thinker. anyone?

*


Truthfully, I think it's a fair picture of how many of those with a theist-mystical "conspiracy" orientation on this board (not you) have been strawmanning those with more materialist, skeptical or non-theist orientations. True here, and on the "peak oil" thread, among others.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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