Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby 82_28 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:50 am

Nope. Won't watch. But another thing about bandwidth is that all those "old" US bases doubtlessly are wired up to "state of the art" networking, power supplies, fuel to fill up the ragtag caliphate's vehicles etc. This isn't happening outside some mud hut on Tatooine with the toyota landspeeder gang all pulled up like it's a roadhouse on route 66 for eggs and hashbrowns. They have access to advanced production, sourcing and connectivity -- clearly.

There is nothing believable about this as being "real" in the way it is being told.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby AlicetheKurious » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:47 am

8bitagent » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:35 am wrote:Well in the last year we've seen

- ISIS tell puzzled wannabe jihadi followers on and offline that focusing on Shia Muslims as the main enemy is more important than Israel

- Israel shoots down a Syrian fighter jet pounding ISIS and al Nursra targets

- IDF forces tend to "moderate" Syrian jihadis

Bibi equates Hamas with ISIS, and recently said liberals will allow ISIS in.

I mean it's no secret Turkey and Qatar have no issue with ISIS, even as 9/11 orchestrating/al Qaeda funding Saudi Arabia builds a giant wall to try and ward off a future ISIS attack
Israel seems like it'd be the last country targeted by the Islamic State

Also isn't it a hoot that ALL of the countries the US government and allies either invaded or used proxy fighters to topple(Iraq, Libya and Syria) have largely fallen to this "ISIS"? Oh I remember when Obama
and all the liberal and right wing dingbats were begging everyone to join in the anti Ghadaffi hysteria, even as Ghadaffi was saying it was a trap to bring in al Qaeda. Surprise surprise.


To those, I would add, just off the top of my head:

- "ISIS" reportedly finances itself by selling stolen Iraqi and Syrian oil. Neat trick for a terrorist group. Do they have their own oil company? This stolen oil is sold for $5 to $15 per barrel to Turkey, which in turn sells it to Israel for $20. Israel keeps what it wants, and sells the rest to Europe at market prices;

- All the ISIS foreign fighters are routed through NATO's Turkey, where, upon arrival they undergo around 3 weeks' training and further indoctrination and are equipped with weapons before being transferred either to Syria or Iraq;

- The Egyptian and Libyan armed forces have stated unequivocally that ALL of ISIS' weapons and ammunition are supplied by NATO's Turkey or by the tiny statelet of Qatar, home to the largest US military bases in the region;

- In his latest speech, Hizbullah's Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah noted that last month Israel crossed into Syria and bombed two civilian cars containing seven Hizbullah members and one Iranian general, killing them all. Yet, only a short distance away, right along Israel's own borders, there is a large terrorist Al-Qaeda camp, which Israel clearly did not deem to be a problem, and has left totally unmolested. In fact, Israel has admitted to treating wounded Al-Qaeda terrorists in its own hospitals.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby AlicetheKurious » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:07 am

82_28 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:50 am wrote:Nope. Won't watch.


Ok, don't watch. At least don't watch the whole thing, just the first few seconds, when their media logo appears. Note the similarity between it and Al-Jazeera's logo:



Instead of "Al-Jazeera", ISIS' media production company, which produces only videos of sadistic murders, calls itself "Al-Haya", which means "Life".

Very sick, very 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink'. They know that we know. They want us to know.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby Tyler Rabbit » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:24 am

Watched the full video elsewhere in higher resolution and now feel like I'm going to puke and will need at least 2 joints to get my stomach calm and head together..... I have a relatively strong stomach but this is the last of these videos I'll be watching or analyzing. My interest was mainly as a pro VFX artist and amateur new media theorist. Will leave the political discussions/explorations and logo analysis to those who do it best; that's you guys.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby AlicetheKurious » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:12 am

Below is a segment from a Lebanese program about the ISIS beheading videos. Sorry it's in Arabic, but it's easy to get the gist. The older man in the beginning is a professional executioner, who has been involved in over a thousand executions in the course of his long career. He says that the reactions of the victims in the videos is impossible, that there are none of the involuntary movements, twitches, struggles to escape that inevitably occur. We see an execution scene filmed for a tv series in which he was a consultant, of a young woman being hanged for murder. It is much, much more realistic than the ISIS videos. I saw the series and that particular scene was incredibly emotional to watch. I couldn't talk for a long time after seeing it, even knowing it was fiction.

Then two journalists create their own ISIS beheading video in a small tv studio, complete with the severed head of one of the actors placed on his corpse. It looks just like the ISIS videos, but with less fancy costumes and expensive equipment and cinematic flourishes.

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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby 82_28 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:00 am

That's kinda been my point all along as well -- I don't mean this as though I am screaming into a vacuum. It is being produced, yet it is being pulled off as though it has been there all this time -- right under our noses. And then we get the added feature of either real or simulated death -- I can't tell and nor can our resident expert, Nordic, either. It's a pretty snazzy outfit they got going that only the "west" could pull off with the alacrity necessary. I think they "jumped the shark" as far as people like us -- at least.

They went from grainy assed videos to sleek production. Bullshit -- how the fuck did they swap out all their VHS equipment with HD bullshit and tip top production capabilities. Did motherfucking FRYS put up a store somewhere in that wartorn country recently? There are only so many ways to galavantly saw somebody's fucking head off and instill fear in the audience it is directed to. People simply do not live like this unless it is controlled by something "larger". They're doing a motherfucking job. Perhaps too clever by half, but it is working for most. Without HD, sawing a motherfucker's head off would not be believable. With HD it makes it fantasyland-nightmareworld writ large. All of which, I do not buy.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:33 pm

Image

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Image
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby Nordic » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:35 pm

Okay I finally found the full video. I never knew that there was a subreddit called /watchpeopledie. Learn something new every day.

Thanks for posting it here Alice.

It's not like I want to see videos of people being killed, I just think it's important to see if these videos are real, and I find it horrible how what people are told are on the videos versus what might actually be on them.

This is the first video that actually looks convincing as far as the actual killings. Only insofar as you actually see copious amounts of blood and what appears to be heads being sawed off. Also the severed heads at the end actually look pretty real, although not all of them. Covered in sand and blood etc. but like Alice said there are no "normal" reactions you would expect from people being killed.

Someone on the reddit site posted something very interesting:

[–]modifieddevice 14 points 21 hours ago
7+7+7=21 christians and the video is 77.7 megs
permalink

So there's that ....
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:35 pm

^^^^ Not having video viewing capability I was so glad not to have known more than some were beheaded. I am not surprised by the supposed "victims" lack of reaction and believe it could be due to their being mildly sedated and partially paralyzed by drugs available anywhere in today's cabinet of miracle drugs.




edited to add "by drugs" to 2nd sentence
Last edited by Iamwhomiam on Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby semper occultus » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:46 pm

Nordic » 16 Feb 2015 19:35 wrote:Someone on the reddit site posted something very interesting:

[–]modifieddevice 14 points 21 hours ago
7+7+7=21 christians and the video is 77.7 megs
permalink

So there's that ....


...there's always that...
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby solace » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:52 pm

82_28 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:00 am wrote:That's kinda been my point all along as well -- I don't mean this as though I am screaming into a vacuum. It is being produced, yet it is being pulled off as though it has been there all this time -- right under our noses. And then we get the added feature of either real or simulated death -- I can't tell and nor can our resident expert, Nordic, either. It's a pretty snazzy outfit they got going that only the "west" could pull off with the alacrity necessary. I think they "jumped the shark" as far as people like us -- at least.

They went from grainy assed videos to sleek production. Bullshit -- how the fuck did they swap out all their VHS equipment with HD bullshit and tip top production capabilities. Did motherfucking FRYS put up a store somewhere in that wartorn country recently? There are only so many ways to galavantly saw somebody's fucking head off and instill fear in the audience it is directed to. People simply do not live like this unless it is controlled by something "larger". They're doing a motherfucking job. Perhaps too clever by half, but it is working for most. Without HD, sawing a motherfucker's head off would not be believable. With HD it makes it fantasyland-nightmareworld writ large. All of which, I do not buy.


Frankly it's racist to presume Arabs are less competent at shit than the West. Yet it gets done here regularly. Stop it.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:33 pm

(I'm sure this has a better home than here, but a gazillion results were returned when I searched for "Gaza," and I don't usually follow most of those, so maybe someone could suggest where that would be or move it to a more appropriate place. I hadn't noticed this discussed here before. It was brought to my attention reading a local writer's blog I share with you:

AP’s eye on Gaza
Posted on February 16, 2015 | By Carl Strock

I hope you saw the Associated Press report the other day about civilian deaths in Gaza. It was quite a job by the AP, three of whose reporters spent several months examining the results of 247 Israeli airstrikes on residential areas in Gaza last summer, interviewing survivors, visiting attack sites, and examining medical records and death certificates. They did not get, or try to get, a complete picture, since they did not investigate the results of Israeli artillery barrages, nor the results of the great majority of Israel’s 5,000 air attacks, but only of those 247 selected strikes.

Still the picture they got was chilling, even if not a surprise to anyone who followed Operation Protective Edge, as Israel called it: Of 844 Palestinians killed in the airstrikes examined by the AP, 508 were women, children and old men, and thus presumably civilians, and of the 240 dead males between the ages of 16 and 59, eligible to be fighters, none appeared in “AP searches of militant websites or on street posters honoring fighters,” meaning there was no evidence that even they were fighters.

A third of those killed, 280 persons, were children younger than 16, “including 19 babies and 108 preschoolers between the ages of 1 and 5.” One of the babies was Shayma Sheik Ali, called “the miracle baby” when she was removed by C-section from the dead body of her mother, who was killed in a bomb attack on her apartment building. The baby was rushed to a hospital and put in an incubator and briefly became a symbol of Palestinian hardihood — briefly, because four days later Israel bombed Gaza’s only remaining power plant, the incubator shut down, and Shayma Sheik Ali died.

Image

The “miracle baby,” while she lasted.


I saw the AP report on AP’s own website and wondered if our newspapers would pick it up and was happy to see that they did — the Times Union, the New York Times, the Washington Post, even the Daily News, which is owned by a supporter of Israel’s armed forces. At least it was on their websites; I don’t see the hard copies of those newspapers.

Image

The bombing of Gaza, 2014: hundreds of children killed.


The material in the report was not really new. The United Nations had already concluded that some 1,400 Palestinian civilians, including some 500 children, had been killed in Israel’s sustained attack on densely populated Gaza last summer. And Physicians for Human Rights had done a detailed report of their own, more searching than the AP’s, giving more grisly particulars about precise attacks on hospitals and clinics and convoys of fleeing civilians and even on cemeteries while funerals were in progress, killing people who were in the process of burying their dead, but this was the staid and pedestrian Associated Press, reliable passer-on of hard facts, tied to the convention of giving equal time to both sides regardless of whether one side is lying, the somniferously neutral Associated Press, doing its own dogged on-the-ground investigation and coming to its own conclusions, which squared with what Physicians for Human Rights had said, which was, “The attacks were characterized by heavy and unpredictable bombardments of civilian neighborhoods … Such indiscriminate attacks, by aircraft, drones, artillery, tanks and gunships, were unlikely to have been the result of decisions made by individual soldiers or commanders; they must have entailed approval from top-level decision-makers in the Israeli military and/or government.” Thus challenging Israel’s sneering assertion that it was merely suppressing rocket fire and civilian casualties were a lamentable side effect, blamable on Hamas.

Which I guess is why Israel and its supporters were determined to drive out the head of the U.N. commission investigating the Gaza onslaught. He was a Canadian law professor, William Schabas, apparently highly regarded, who, being Jewish himself, could hardly be smeared as anti-Semitic. He quit his post this month after a prolonged Israeli campaign against him and after receiving death threats, some emanating from the United States and Canada, and one, mailed from Israel, that promised he would be killed with “a powerful virus.” The two signers of that letter said they were devoted to “chasing the enemies of Israel and of the Jews wherever they are,” according to a report in The New York Times.

“When I saw the vigor of the attacks, I wondered, do I really want to get into this?” the professor said of his resignation.

Israel had already refused to allow commission members into the country, much less into Gaza or the occupied West Bank, and was giving no cooperation to the investigation whatsoever, so the campaign against the good professor was by way of a kick in the groin after a spit in the eye.

The curious thing to me is that Israel continues to get away with all this — the massacres of civilians, the thumbing of its nose at international investigations, the bullying of people who raise their voices. It bears thinking about, in my opinion, especially as the prime minister of that outlaw country prepares to address a joint session of Congress, in contempt of the president of the United States. How do you think this happens?

For now, a tip of the hat to the AP for its conscientious reporting and to those newspapers that dared to carry it.

http://blog.timesunion.com/carlstrock/aps-eye-on-gaza/670/

And so, in Fair Use, here's the AP's exclusive report http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_STRIKING_HOMES_ABRIDGED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-02-13-14-51-49:

Feb 13, 2:51 PM EST
AP Exclusive: Israeli house strikes killed mostly civilians
By KARIN LAUB, FARES AKRAM and MOHAMMED DARAGHMEH
Associated Press

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) -- The youngest to die was a 4-day-old girl, the oldest a 92-year-old man.

They were among at least 844 Palestinians killed as a result of airstrikes on Gaza homes during Israel's summer war with the Islamic militant group, Hamas.

Under the rules of war, homes are protected civilian sites unless used for military purposes. Israel says it attacked only legitimate targets, alleging militants used the houses to hide weapons, fighters and command centers. Palestinians say Israel's warplanes often struck without regard for civilians.

The Associated Press examined 247 airstrikes, interviewing witnesses, visiting attack sites and compiling a detailed casualty count.

The review found that 508 of the dead - just over 60 percent - were children, women and older men, all presumed to be civilians. Hamas says it did not use women as fighters in the war, and an Israel-based research group, the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, which tracks militants among the war dead, said it has no evidence women participated in combat.

In addition:

- Children younger than 16 made up one-third of the total: 280 killed, including 19 babies and 108 preschoolers between the ages of 1 and 5.

- In 83 strikes, three or more members of one family died.

- Among those killed were 96 confirmed or suspected militants - just over 11 percent of the total - though the actual number could be higher since armed groups have not released detailed casualty lists.

- The remaining 240 dead were males between the ages of 16 and 59 whose names did not appear in AP searches of militant websites or on street posters honoring fighters.

The review was the most painstaking attempt to date to try to determine who was killed in strikes on homes; Israel's army and Gaza militants have refused to release information about targets and casualties. The count tracked all known airstrikes on homes, though not all strikes had witnesses and damage inspected by the AP wasn't always conclusive.

The number of civilian deaths has been a key issue in the highly charged battle over the dominant narrative of the 50-day war.

Fighting erupted in July, after a month of escalating tensions triggered by Hamas' abduction and killing of three Israeli teens in the West Bank, and an Israeli arrest sweep of Hamas supporters that led to renewed Gaza rocket fire on Israel.

Israel says it tried to avoid harming civilians, even as Hamas embedded weapons and fighters in residential areas.

"Our position is very clear. Israel did not commit war crimes," said Foreign Ministry spokesman Emmanuel Nahshon.

Palestinians say Israel attacked with disproportionate force and callous disregard for civilians.

If most of those killed are civilians, "you cannot call them collateral damage," said Hanan Ashrawi, a Palestinian spokeswoman.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has asked the International Criminal Court to investigate the war, a move that could pave the way for possible prosecution of both Israel and Hamas.

International law experts note that a high civilian death toll alone does not constitute conclusive evidence of war crimes. But it "raises a red flag and suggests that further investigation is warranted," said Alex Whiting, a former top official at the ICC in The Hague, Netherlands.

Israel would not say how many of its 5,000 air attacks were directed at homes. However, it insists it only aimed at legitimate military targets.

Asked for comment on the AP's findings, an Israeli army spokesman, Lt. Peter Lerner, said that "one cannot draw broad conclusions" by examining only a small percentage of Israel's airstrikes.

Reuven Erlich, a former senior Israeli intelligence officer, questioned the reliability of Gaza witnesses and said only military experts could determine what happened in each strike.

According to preliminary U.N. figures, at least 1,483 Palestinian civilians were killed in the war - 66 percent of the overall death toll of 2,205.

Gaza militants fired about 4,300 rockets and mortar rounds at Israel, according to the Israeli military. The barrages drove tens of thousands of Israelis from their homes to seek cover. Five civilians were killed, among them a 4-year-old boy, along with 67 soldiers.

Advocacy groups and U.N. investigators have said that Hamas' battle tactics over the years, including indiscriminate rocket fire at Israel, amount to war crimes.

The AP examined cases in which people were killed in homes or adjacent yards, including those hit by shrapnel or debris from attacks on neighboring buildings. The count excluded artillery strikes which are inherently inaccurate.

Starting in November, three reporters visited the vast majority of attack sites, interviewed survivors and collected hundreds of death certificates - documents recognized by Israel as proof of mortality.

The youngest victim, Shayma Sheik Ali, died four days after her pregnant mother's body was pulled from the rubble of their home in the Deir el-Balah refugee camp.

The infant was delivered by emergency cesarean section, her relatives said. She died July 29, according to her death certificate.

The oldest victim, 92-year-old Abdel Karim Abu Nijem, was killed along with a son, three grandsons and three other relatives, in an airstrike on his home in the Jebaliya refugee camp. Islamic Jihad later confirmed that two fighters were also killed in that strike.

A nephew said the family received no warning. "Otherwise we would have fled," said Mohammed Abu Nijem, whose 29-year-old wife, Soha, and 3-year-old daughter, Ragheb, were killed.

The military said it warned civilians when possible, including through phone calls or "knocks on the roof" with non-explosive missiles, and it aborted some strikes due to civilians in the vicinity.

In January, the Palestinians joined the International Criminal Court, opening the way for possible investigations of both Israel and Hamas. In response, the ICC prosecutor launched a preliminary review of whether a full probe is warranted.

Israel's military says it is conducting a transparent investigation of any wrongdoing by its forces in the Gaza war. However, rights groups in Israel and abroad demand an independent investigation, arguing that house strikes were part of a policy approved at the highest levels and the Israeli military cannot investigate itself.

© 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_STRIKING_HOMES_ABRIDGED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-02-13-14-51-49

Image
The bombing of Gaza, 2014: hundreds of children killed.

Image
The “miracle baby,” while she lasted.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:47 pm

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby 82_28 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:12 pm

solace wrote:

Frankly it's racist to presume Arabs are less competent at shit than the West. Yet it gets done here regularly. Stop it.


Bro/Sis, I was talking about connectivity, not about race or culture. Just that's what I do for a living. I could tell you about Wyoming if you want -- same diff. There is a distance that must be covered in order to flow this shit out, sometimes MANY miles -- bandwidth. Like I said "led to believe". And again, no way, no how was I intimating "Arabs are less competent". If we are made to think all of this is happening out in some desolate locale means that that is patently untrue that it's just some desert outpost. They're "hooked up".

For "the record", if you want to meet the least racist person you'll ever meet -- he's typing right now. Calling spades spades does not make one racist.
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Re: Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

Postby Nordic » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:01 am

Well it does seem seem PRETTY DARNED INTERESTING that a few people beheaded on video by scary guys hiding their faces -- and we're ready to go to war for YEARS to bomb them into oblivion.

Israel slaughtered 508 women, children, and old men, in a very nasty fashion, using 5,000 (five fucking THOUSAND!) air attacks, hitting people's homes, hitting hospitals, shelters, etc. and almost nobody bats an eye.

They're our FRIENDS. They're GREAT. They're the CHOSEN ONES.

I knew the world was gonna get really fucked up, I've known it for decades now, but this is different than what I expected. I didn't expect snuff videos in high definition -- and I'm talking about Gaza here -- although I guess I should also talk about the subredit \watchpeopledie. How fucked up is that.
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