How Bad Is Global Warming?

[Nordic]

I clearly remember a thread about abiotic oil theory. If you want to dredge that up.

You know, it's not just emissions. It's destruction of life on earth, mainly trees.

A carbon tax ain't gonna help anything if we keep cutting down all the fucking trees.

It was clear decades ago that even if there was no such thing as global warming we were on our way to planetary environmental degradation, mass extinction, and a possible end to our species.

I've said it before but the AGW "argument" seems awfully convenient given that ALL environmental concerns have been wrapped up in that package. As if there would be no pressing environmental concerns if not for that pesky global warming thing.

Get people to argue about that, and you have them arguing as to the validity of environmental destruction itself.

Which is just fucking stupid.

I am old enough to remember when cleaning up the commons known as the earth's air and water and biodiversity wasn't a partisan issue. Over 61% of Republicans, back in the late 70s, believed that environmental protection laws should be stronger, not weaker.

Now the Noise Machine has got people arguing as to the very existence of environmental dangers.

Propaganda. It works.

[smoking since 1879]

Sounder, are you as skeptical as I am of the idea that the trillions of barrels worth of oil in the ground is liquefied plant and animal matter? The more I think about it the more absurd it seems.

hear hear!

the industry term seems to be 'abiogenic' - wiki says its a discredited theory - which just adds weight to it being true

whilst 'abiogenic' means 'without biology/life' it seems to me that the microbes that eat rock (lithotrophs) are responsible.

I really can't imagine how else this stuff gets so far underground.

[Sounder]

Nordic wrote...

I've said it before but the AGW "argument" seems awfully convenient given that ALL environmental concerns have been wrapped up in that package. As if there would be no pressing environmental concerns if not for that pesky global warming thing.

Get people to argue about that, and you have them arguing as to the validity of environmental destruction itself.

Or make the argument appear that way by calling anybody with questions about purity of intentions behind AGW as being a Koch supporting pro-polluter. When a given thing requires cultivation of category confusion to support itself, there is a good chance that that thing is ‘problematic’ as AD would say.

Many of us on the ‘progressives social pariah, fit to be no-platformed’ side of things, in fact, like divideandconcur and myself suffer from effects of current environmental travesties and toxins and naturally enough choose to be more concerned about that than we are about ‘future computer modeling’.

An analogy can be discerned between the thin veneer of environmentalism covering the AGW camp and the veneer covering the progressives in the Avazz camp that SLAD profiles in another thread.

Quite recently, if not still being the case Avazz calls for a no-fly zone for Syria. It goes to show how easily progressives, in this case, but Birchers did it to conservatives’ also, can be manipulated into doing things directly opposed to supposed core principles.

The only real way to solve the problems is to identify, expose and neutralize the manipulation. Anything else is simply pissing into the wind.

I recommend Batesonian holism as a good starting point.

[KUAN]

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Word is that latest melt figures from the west antarctic ice sheet suggest up to 3 metres of sea level rise by 2050 - some action at last....

[smoking since 1879]

.

Word is that latest melt figures from the west antarctic ice sheet suggest up to 3 metres of sea level rise by 2050 - some action at last....

they'll still be in denial

[fruhmenschen]

https://robertscribbler.com/


Conditions Promoting the Arctic Sea Ice Collapse Are Exceptionally Strong This Spring

It didn’t take long for Arctic sea ice to start to respond to a fossil-fuel based accumulation of hothouse gasses in the Earth’s atmosphere. For since the 1920s, that region of ocean ice along the northern polar zone has been in a steady, and increasingly rapid, retreat. Rachel Carson wrote about the start of the Northern Hemisphere ocean ice decline in her ground-breaking 1955 book — The Edge of the Sea.

But it wasn’t until the late 1970s that consistent satellite observations began to provide an unbroken record telling the tale of Arctic sea ice decline. The National Snow and Ice Data Center, The Polar Science Center (PIOMAS), Japan’s JAXA, The Danish Meteorological Institute, and others have since that time provided a loyal recording of the stark

[zangtang]

I have no idea, tho i have been following this thread, if this has been posted, 2 yrs old i think, or whether it meets your standards of rigor, but its my understanding that......
this is how bad it is.......
https://sites.google.com/site/runawaygl ... ane-threat

If you just want the doom.....:
" The enemy now is Mother Nature who has infinite power at her disposal and intends to take no prisoners in this very short, absolutely brutal, 30 to 40 year war she has begun. I cannot emphasise more, how serious humanity’s predicament is and what we should try to do to prevent our certain final destruction and extinction in the next 30 to 40 years if we continue down the present path we are following ."


as long as evr'one knows that we are at the stage of shooting microwaves at the stratosphere to deconstruct the methane ?

[fruhmenschen]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... bal-record


March temperature smashes 100-year global record

Average global temperature was 1.07C hotter - beating last month’s previous record increase
An illustration shows that 2015 was the hottest year since 1880.


Friday 15 April 2016 11.33 EDT

[smoking since 1879]

The enemy now is Mother Nature who has infinite power at her disposal and intends to take no prisoners in this very short, absolutely brutal, 30 to 40 year war she has begun. I cannot emphasise more, how serious humanity’s predicament is and what we should try to do to prevent our certain final destruction and extinction in the next 30 to 40 years if we continue down the present path we are following .

She was never the enemy - we started the war anyway

Sad that some people see it like that

(Not tarring you with that brush mr z)

[smoking since 1879]

From The article that Zangtang posted...

"The Lucy and Alamo (HAARP) projects were designed to break down atmospheric methane using radio - laser transmissions (Light and Carana 2013). In a new modified version of the Lucy Project, hydroxyls will be generated by a polarized 13.56 MHZ beam intersecting the sea surface over the region where a massive methane torch (plume) is entering the atmosphere so that the additional hydroxl will react with the rising methane breaking a large part of it down. The polarized 13.56 MHZ radio waves will decompose atmospheric humidity, mist, fog, ocean spray, and the surface of the waves themselves in the Arctic Ocean into nascent hydrogen and hydroxyl (Figure 6). "

Seriously... WTF?

We used to call this post rationalization when I was younger but this is taking the piss.

[zangtang]

yeah the '30 to 40 year war she has begun' could stick in many a craw......just badly expressed methinks....
- suspect what he means (if you can go with the anthropomorphizing ((whatever)) of mother nature yada yada)
is : the forces of nature (its sentient,Jim, but not as we know it) have picked up the gauntlet,
- and the gloves are off....prepare to get pasted real good.

will try this edit again : interesting line from McConaughey in 'Interstellar' - (this is not verbatim but paraphraes) : "we're on a planet that doesn't want us here anymore"

[Burnt Hill]

http://news.spaceweather.com/cosmic-rays-continue-to-intensify-feb-2016/

Cosmic Rays Continue to Intensify (Feb. 2016)

Researchers have long known that solar activity and cosmic rays have a yin-yang relationship. As solar activity declines, cosmic rays intensify. Lately, solar activity has been very low indeed. Are cosmic rays responding? The answer is “yes.” Spaceweather.com and the students of Earth to Sky Calculus have been using helium balloons to monitor cosmic rays in the stratosphere. Their latest flight on Feb. 16th measured the highest values yet:

The data show that cosmic rays in the mid-latitude stratosphere now are approximately 12% stronger than they were one year ago.

Cosmic rays, which are accelerated toward Earth by distant supernova explosions and other violent events, are an important form of space weather. They can seed clouds, trigger lightning, and penetrate commercial airplanes. Furthermore, there are studies linking cosmic rays with cardiac arrhythmias and sudden cardiac death in the general population. Among patients who have an implanted cardioverter – defibrillator (ICD), the aggregate number of life-saving shocks appears to be correlated with the number of cosmic rays reaching the ground. References: #1, #2, #3, #4.

Why do cosmic rays increase when solar activity is low? Consider the following: To reach Earth, cosmic rays have to penetrate the inner solar system. Solar storms make this more difficult. CMEs and gusts of solar wind tend to sweep aside cosmic rays, lowering the intensity of radiation around our planet. On the other hand, when solar storms subside, cosmic rays encounter less resistance; reaching Earth is a piece of cake.

Forecasters expect solar activity to drop sharply in the years ahead as the 11-year solar cycle swings toward another deep minimum. Cosmic rays are poised to increase accordingly

It is amazing what we have figured out so far re "space weather", and we have barely scratched the surface.
There are factors affecting our climate that are yet to be determined.

[smoking since 1879]

http://news.spaceweather.com/cosmic-rays-continue-to-intensify-feb-2016/

Cosmic Rays Continue to Intensify (Feb. 2016)

Researchers have long known that solar activity and cosmic rays have a yin-yang relationship. As solar activity declines, cosmic rays intensify. Lately, solar activity has been very low indeed. Are cosmic rays responding? The answer is “yes.” Spaceweather.com and the students of Earth to Sky Calculus have been using helium balloons to monitor cosmic rays in the stratosphere. Their latest flight on Feb. 16th measured the highest values yet:

The data show that cosmic rays in the mid-latitude stratosphere now are approximately 12% stronger than they were one year ago.

Cosmic rays, which are accelerated toward Earth by distant supernova explosions and other violent events, are an important form of space weather. They can seed clouds, trigger lightning, and penetrate commercial airplanes. Furthermore, there are studies linking cosmic rays with cardiac arrhythmias and sudden cardiac death in the general population. Among patients who have an implanted cardioverter – defibrillator (ICD), the aggregate number of life-saving shocks appears to be correlated with the number of cosmic rays reaching the ground. References: #1, #2, #3, #4.

Why do cosmic rays increase when solar activity is low? Consider the following: To reach Earth, cosmic rays have to penetrate the inner solar system. Solar storms make this more difficult. CMEs and gusts of solar wind tend to sweep aside cosmic rays, lowering the intensity of radiation around our planet. On the other hand, when solar storms subside, cosmic rays encounter less resistance; reaching Earth is a piece of cake.

Forecasters expect solar activity to drop sharply in the years ahead as the 11-year solar cycle swings toward another deep minimum. Cosmic rays are poised to increase accordingly

It is amazing what we have figured out so far re "space weather", and we have barely scratched the surface.
There are factors affecting our climate that are yet to be determined.

might be helpful to you...

COSMIC RAY MEASUREMENTS IN THE ATMOSPHERE
Y.I. Stozhkov, N.S. Svirzhevsky, and V.S. Makhmutov
Lebedev Physical Institute, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Russia
Abstract
We present the main characteristics of cosmic ray population in the atmosphere
and its variability (11-and 22-year solar cycle variations, solar protons
originating from powerful solar flares, energetic electron precipitation during
geomagnetic disturbances and Forbush decreases of cosmic rays). The
experimental data were obtained from the long-term cosmic ray monitoring in
the atmosphere from 1957 to now. The relationship between cosmic ray fluxes,
and atmospheric processes are also discussed.
https://cds.cern.ch/record/557167/files/p41.pdf


i skimmed it, seems like it means it will rain a bit more

Let us consider a cloud of 3x3x2 km3 in sizes, the top of which is at the altitude ~3 km. The flux of
cosmic ray secondaries (mainly relativistic electrons and muons) falling on the upper surface of such
cloud is ~7x10^9 particles/s. The total energy released by these particles inside the cloud to ionize air atoms
equals ~4.5x10^6 erg/s.

4.5x10^6erg/s ≈ 6.4 x approximate power of a wireless router's antenna
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=4.5x10%5E6+erg%2Fs

must be that then, rather than the co2 and methane n other shit eh?

[Burnt Hill]

thanks smoking, I will give it a look.
I think what really surprised me was the correlation with cardiac arrhythmias.
And thinking that knowing this much implies(to me!) that there is so much more we don't know!
* oh, and no to your last sentence

[smoking since 1879]

thanks smoking, I will give it a look.
I think what really surprised me was the correlation with cardiac arrhythmias.
And thinking that knowing this much implies(to me!) that there is so much more we don't know!
* oh, and no to your last sentence

forgive me, i assumed that the 11 / 22 year cycle is an ancient phenomenon and something that most likely is factored into existing models, prepared to be wrong on that.

meanwhile... the jetstream is playing up a tad

Unusually Early Greenland Melt
http://polarportal.dk/en/nyheder/arkiv/nyheder/usaedvanlig-tidlig-afsmeltning-i-groenland/