Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby 17breezes » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:12 am

'Marmara' captain: I opposed violence
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND YAAKOV LAPPIN
06/11/2010 13:22

Report:Crew tried to stop IHH activists' violence before raid.
Talkbacks (1)
The captain of the Mavi Marmara tried to convince dozens of IHH activists not to engage in violent clashes with the IDF two hours prior to the commando's boarding of the ship, reported Army Radio on Friday.

The Gaza flotilla ship's captain, Mehmet Tubal, said while being investigated in Israel that he and other members of the Mavi Marmara's staff did all they could to prevent the activists from confronting soldiers, even throwing some of the IHH member's metal pipes and chains overboard.


Another senior member of the ship's staff said that 40 IHH activists took control of the Mavi Marmara and dictated the rest of the passengers' movements.

The occurrence of violence aboard the Mavi Marmara may have been predetermined by the IHH 's purchase of the ship along with possible tacit approval from the Turkish government.

"[The] IHH acquired the Mavi Marmara ship from the AKP-run municipality of Istanbul. It is not conceivable that the IHH’s Gaza operation could have been carried out absent high-level government sanction," wrote Svante Cornell, a Swedish security expert who specializes in Eurasia, in an article published on Monday.

A journalist on-board the Mavi Marmara, described as having good links with the heads of the Turkish government and Bulent Yildirim, head of the IHH, had stated, "The flotilla was organized with the support of the Turkish government and Prime Minister Erdogan gave the instructions for it to set sail. That was despite the fact that everyone knew it would never reach its destination," according to the report.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=178172
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby American Dream » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:28 am

For 17breezes: excerpted and highlighted so that it's not rocket science- for your hasbara efforts...


Defending the indefensible: a how-to guide

21 handy talking-points when you need to apply the white-wash:


1. We didn't do it! (Denials usually don't work, but it's worth a try).

2. We know you think we did it but we aren't admitting anything.

3. Actually, maybe we did do something but not what we are accused of doing.

4. Ok, we did it but it wasn't that bad.

5. Well, maybe it was pretty bad but it was justified or necessary.

6. What we did was really quite restrained, when you consider how powerful we really are. I mean, we could have done something even worse.

7. Besides, what we did was technically legal under some interpretations of international law (or at least as our lawyers interpret the law as it applies to us.)

8. Don't forget: the other side is much worse. In fact, they're evil. Really.

9. Plus, they started it.

10. And remember: We are the good guys. We are not morally equivalent to the bad guys no matter what we did. Only morally obtuse, misguided critics could fail to see this fundamental distinction between Them and Us.

11. The results may have been imperfect, but our intentions were noble.

12. We have to do things like this to maintain our credibility. You don't want to encourage those bad guys, do you?

13. Especially because the only language the other side understands is force.

14. In fact, it was imperative to teach them a lesson. For the Nth time.

15. If we hadn't done this to them they would undoubtedly have done something even worse to us. Well, maybe not. But who could take that chance?

16. In fact, no responsible government could have acted otherwise in the face of such provocation.

17. Plus, we had no choice. What we did may have been awful, but all other policy options had failed and/or nothing else would have worked.

18. It's a tough world out there and Serious People understand that sometimes you have to do these things. Only ignorant idealists, terrorist sympathizers, craven appeasers and/or treasonous liberals would question our actions.

19. In fact, whatever we did will be worth it eventually, and someday the rest of the world will thank us.

20. We are the victims of a double-standard. Other states do the same things (or worse) and nobody complains about them. What we did was therefore permissible.

21. And if you keep criticizing us, we'll get really upset and then we might do something really crazy. You don't want that, do you?

Repeat as necessary.


http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/201 ... w_to_guide
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby 17breezes » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:45 am

American Dream wrote:For 17breezes: excerpted and highlighted so that it's not rocket science- for your hasbara efforts...



Hasbara, here? No. Simply showing the other side of things. And measuring the responses.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby Searcher08 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:59 am

17breezes wrote:
American Dream wrote:For 17breezes: excerpted and highlighted so that it's not rocket science- for your hasbara efforts...



Hasbara, here? No. Simply showing the other side of things. And measuring the responses.


:lol2:

Try 'New Menthol Hasbara'! So 'rational', so 'even handed', so 'scientific'. Mmmm!
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby American Dream » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:35 am

European Jewish Group to Launch Flotilla to Break Gaza
Blockade


by Richard Hall

June 9, 2010


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-h ... 05987.html

BEIRUT: A Jewish European peace group is to launch a boat to
break the blockade of Gaza in the coming months, organizers
said, almost a week after nine activists were killed making
the same trip.

European Jews for a Just Peace (EJJP) - an umbrella
organization of Jewish groups from 10 European countries
against the occupation of Palestine - aim to deliver
humanitarian aid such as school books and medicines to the
Gaza Strip, and to draw attention to the blockade which they
call "immoral."

"We want to show that not all Jews support Israel," said
Edith Lutz, a German member of the EJJP. "We are calling for
a just solution and for an end to the blockade."

On board the ships will be activists from across Europe
including Germany and the UK, as well as an 85-year-old
Holocaust survivor from Israel. The voyage was originally
meant to carry only a small number of activists together
with journalists from Europe and Israel, but organizers say
that a huge response from the Jewish community has meant
that a second boat has been arranged, and the possibility of
a third is being discussed.

"In the beginning it was not meant to be an exclusively
Jewish trip, we had a variety of people. But many more
Jewish people came forward wanting to come on board, and we
realized this was important politically," said Lutz.

This sentiment was echoed by Glyn Secker, a member of the
British based Jews for Justice for Palestinians who will
captain the ship. "I think it will have particular
significance because it is a group of Jewish people saying
that as Jews, we are critical of Israeli policy. We believe
that there should be a just peace for the Palestinians," he
said.

Organizers hope to draw attention to the injustice of the
blockade whilst delivering much-needed supplies to the
impoverished territory of 1.5 million people, 80 percent of
whom rely on some sort of food aid according to the UN
agency for Palestinian refugees UNRWA.

"The supplies are symbolic," said Secker, "they include
medical supplies, books, art materials and some musical
instruments to give to the children."

"We want to make a very clear moral statement that the way
Israel is treating the Palestinians is, we believe,
extremely immoral. We want to say emphatically: 'not in our
name,'" Secker added.

Another motivation for the trip, organizers said, was the
effect Israeli policies have on the treatment of Jews living
outside of Israel.

"We are frightened that Israeli policies will help anti-
Semitism to grow. We also want to show that these actions
are not Jewish," said Lutz.

The group said they will depart from a port in an
undisclosed country toward the end of July. The current
number of people on board is approximately 40, but
organizers said this number could grow by the time they
depart.

Egypt and Israel have maintained the blockade since Hamas
won elections in Gaza in 2006, with Israel describing it as
an essential measure to stop weapons from reaching Hamas
militants.

Rights group Amnesty International has condemned it as
"collective punishment" and UN High Commissioner for Human
Rights Navi Pillay last week said the blockade was illegal
and should be eliminated.

The activists planning the journey said they were shocked
when they heard about the deaths of other activists trying
to deliver aid last week, and were unsure whether they would
reach their target.

"I cannot tell you whether the trip will be a success or if
will get to Gaza. But we will be successful in telling the
world that we don't agree with the blockade," said Lutz.

[Richard Hall is a journalist living and working in Beirut,
Lebanon. His work is focused on human rights, labour rights
and the far right. He writes primarily on Middle East
affairs, specifically the Israel-Palestine conflict. ]
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby Searcher08 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:39 am

Israeli document: Gaza blockade isn't about security

By Sheera Frenkel | McClatchy Newspapers

JERUSALEM — As Israel ordered a slight easing of its blockade of the Gaza Strip Wednesday, McClatchy obtained an Israeli government document that describes the blockade not as a security measure but as "economic warfare" against the Islamist group Hamas, which rules the Palestinian territory.

Israel imposed severe restrictions on Gaza in June 2007, after Hamas won elections and took control of the coastal enclave after winning elections there the previous year, and the government has long said that the aim of the blockade is to stem the flow of weapons to militants in Gaza.

Last week, after Israeli commandos killed nine volunteers on a Turkish-organized Gaza aid flotilla, Israel again said its aim was to stop the flow of terrorist arms into Gaza.

However, in response to a lawsuit by Gisha, an Israeli human rights group, the Israeli government explained the blockade as an exercise of the right of economic warfare.

"A country has the right to decide that it chooses not to engage in economic relations or to give economic assistance to the other party to the conflict, or that it wishes to operate using 'economic warfare,'" the government said.

McClatchy obtained the government's written statement from Gisha, the Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, which sued the government for information about the blockade. The Israeli high court upheld the suit, and the government delivered its statement earlier this year.

Sari Bashi, the director of Gisha, said the documents prove that Israel isn't imposing its blockade for its stated reasons, but rather as collective punishment for the Palestinian population of Gaza. Gisha focuses on Palestinian rights.

(A State Department spokesman, who wasn't authorized to speak for the record, said he hadn't seen the documents in question.)

The Israeli government took an additional step Wednesday and said the economic warfare is intended to achieve a political goal. A government spokesman, who couldn't be named as a matter of policy, told McClatchy that authorities will continue to ease the blockade but "could not lift the embargo altogether as long as Hamas remains in control" of Gaza.

President Barack Obama, after receiving Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority, said the situation in Gaza is "unsustainable." He pledged an additional $400 million in aid for housing, school construction and roads to improve daily life for Palestinians — of which at least $30 million is earmarked for Gaza.

Israel's blockade of Gaza includes a complex and ever-changing list of goods that are allowed in. Items such as cement or metal are barred because they can be used for military purposes, Israeli officials say.

According to figures published by Gisha in coordination with the United Nations, Israel allows in 25 percent of the goods it had permitted into Gaza before the Hamas takeover. In the years prior to the closure, Israel allowed an average of 10,400 trucks to enter Gaza with goods each month. Israel now allows approximately 2,500 trucks a month.

The figures show that Israel also has limited the goods allowed to enter Gaza to 40 types of items, while before June 2007 approximately 4,000 types of goods were listed as entering Gaza.

Israel expanded its list slightly Wednesday to include soda, juice, jam, spices, shaving cream, potato chips, cookies and candy, said Palestinian liaison official Raed Fattouh, who coordinates the flow of goods into Gaza with Israel.

"I think Israel wants to defuse international pressure," said Fattouh. "They want to show people that they are allowing things into Gaza."

It was the first tangible step taken by Israel in the wake of the unprecedented international criticism it's faced over the blockade following last week's Israeli raid on the high seas.

While there have been mounting calls for an investigation into the manner in which Israel intercepted the flotilla, world leaders have also called for Israel to lift its blockade on Gaza.

At his meeting with Abbas, Obama said the Security Council had called for a "credible, transparent investigation that met international standards." He added: "And we meant what we said. That's what we expect."

He also called for an easing of Israel's blockade. "It seems to us that there should be ways of focusing narrowly on arms shipments, rather than focusing in a blanket way on stopping everything and then, in a piecemeal way, allowing things into Gaza," he told reporters.

Egypt, which controls much of Gaza's southern border, reopened the Rafah crossing this week in response to international pressure to lift the blockade.

Egypt has long been considered Israel's partner in enforcing the blockade, but Egyptian Foreign Minister Hossam Zaki said the Rafah crossing will remain open indefinitely for Gazans with special permits. In the past, the border has been opened sporadically.

Maxwell Gaylard, the U.N.'s humanitarian coordinator in the Palestinian territories, said the international community is seeking an "urgent and fundamental change" in Israel's policy regarding Gaza rather than a piecemeal approach.

"A modest expansion of the restrictive list of goods allowed into Gaza falls well short of what is needed. We need a fundamental change and an opening of crossings for commercial goods," he said.

Hamas officials said that they were "disappointed" by Israel's announcement, and that the goods fell far short of what was actually needed.

"They will send the first course. We are waiting for the main course," Palestinian Economy Minister Hassan Abu Libdeh said in Ramallah, specifying that construction materials were the item that Gazans need most. Many Palestinians have been unable to build their homes in the wake of Operation Cast Lead, Israel's punishing offensive in the Gaza Strip in December 2008 and January 2009.

Israel said the cement and other construction goods could be used to build bunkers and other military installations.

Some of those goods already come into Gaza via the smuggling tunnels that connect it to Egypt.

(Frenkel, a McClatchy special correspondent, reported from Jerusalem. Warren P. Strobel and Steven Thomma contributed to this article from Washington.)

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/09/95621/israeli-document-gaza-blockade.html#ixzz0qYV99soA
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:51 am

Gaza flotilla attack: activist releases new footage Documentary maker Iara Lee smuggles out video despite Israeli attempt to confiscate all recordings


Israeli Attack on the Mavi Marmara, May 31st 2010 // 15 min. from Cultures of Resistance on Vimeo. Warning: contains graphic scenes

New footage has emerged of the Israeli assault on a convoy of aid ships headed to Gaza in which nine activists were killed.

The high quality film was reportedly recorded by New York-based documentary maker Iara Lee aboard the Mavi Marmara, the Turkish ship that bore the brunt of the Israeli attacks.

Israel attempted to confiscate all footage recorded by participants in the Gaza Freedom flotilla – including taking away mobile phones – but Lee managed to smuggle one hour of film out of the country by hiding it in her underwear, it was reported.

The 15 minutes of film posted online shows the moments leading up to and during the Israeli commandos' assault on the Mavi Marmara.

At one stage the captain of the boat can be heard over the public address system, saying: "Do not show resistance … They are using live ammunition … Be calm, be very calm." Gunshots can be heard.

The film includes footage of an Israeli inflatable boat carrying commandos, and troops can also be seen rappelling from a helicopter on to the Mavi Marmara. While they do so, two men on the Marmara can be seen using catapults aimed at the soldiers, who are high above them, although the projectiles they are firing cannot be ascertained.

At one point a passenger on the boat says to the camera: "[The activists] hold two soldiers down here, bleeding and wounded." One soldier can be seen being carried down the stairs of the vessel. In an interview with Democracy Now, Lee said the soldiers were injured in the commotion. "They got treatment by our passengers," she said.

A number of passengers are shown in the video receiving medical treatment for wounds, including one man being resuscitated. He does not appear to respond. At the end of the footage a woman can be heard shouting: "We have no guns here, we are civilians taking care of injured people. Don't use violence, we need help."

Lee described the attack as terrifying. "[The Israelis] came to kill," she said. "They wanted to take over the ship."

More than 600 pro-Palestinian activists were detained by Israel in the 31 May raids on the aid convoy. There was global condemnation of the assault but Israel claimed its troops acted in self-defence after coming under attack from members of an "extremist" Turkish group. It announced on Monday it would conduct an internal investigation into the incident, defying pressure for a thorough international inquiry
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:44 pm

Will Erdogan Blink?

By FRANKLIN C. SPINNEY
June 11, 2010

A recent article by Patrick Cockburn, one of the ablest reporters covering the Middle East, provides an excellent character portrait of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan. It is certainly consistent with what little I have been able to learn about this fascinating politician. Regardless of what you may think of Erdogan, and he has many detractors (I am not one), he is certainly establishing himself as an influential world leader who must be reckoned with in an emerging multi-polar world.

Cockburn's report is must reading, because Erdogan has maneuvered himself onto the moral high ground in a very serious crisis he did not create. Consider please the following:

By standing tall against Israel's murderous commando attack on the unarmed ship in international waters that was carrying aid to the besieged inhabitants of Gaza, and by promising to be on another ship trying to break the blockade, Erdogan has set an example that contrasts sharply with the latest generation of pusillanimous leaders in the United States. They have refused to condemn Israel's attack, even though a US citizen was among those murdered -- thus continuing the pattern of unprincipled moral weakness that began when President Johnson refused to act decisively after the Israelis deliberately attacked the USS Liberty in international waters in June 1967, murdering over 30 American sailors.

Not surprisingly, Erdogan has become the newest bête noire of the neocons. They have embarked on a concerted effort in their media outlets to smear him as well as to trash our relations with Turkey, starting with screeds in the Wall Street Journal and Weekly Standard. Their hypocrisy is stunning. Many of these same neocons assiduously cultivated the so-called strategic Israeli-Turkish alliance in the 1990s and, in fact, lobbied Congress on the behalf of Turkey. AIPAC is lobbying Congress for a resolution of support for Israel's attack, or failing that, is pressuring congressmen to not criticize Israel. AIPAC and the neocons are also stoking up the Armenian lobby to criticize the modern Turkish Republic for the genocidal crimes which occurred during the waning days of a decrepit Ottoman Empire. This is logically equivalent to criticizing German Chancellor Angela Merkel for Adolf Hitler's crimes. Some congressmen have already made strong public statements of support for Israel, and by extension a condemnation for Turkey, while the majority -- like the good Germans of the 1930s -- have done likewise by remaining silent. Israel just hoisted Obama on his petard (again) by requesting increased arms aid from the United States which, of course, will be rubber stamped by a compliant Congress. Meanwhile, according to the Jerusalem Post, the Deputy Chief of Staff of the Israeli Army, just threatened to sink any Turkish warships carrying Erdogan, if it was escorting another flotilla of aid ships trying to break the blockade of Gaza. The threat is serious, because it was made on Israeli Army Radio, an outlet for policy pronouncements intended to lather up the Israeli citizens for battle.

To add final insult to this march of folly, Sheera Fenkle just reported that the blockade of Gaza is not about stopping arms shipments to Hamas, because in her words, 'McClatchy obtained an Israeli government document that describes the blockade not as a security measure but as "economic warfare" against the Islamist group Hamas, which rules the Palestinian territory.' Put another way, Israel's own documents suggest that the Israeli government understands the blockade is about an illegal collective punishment of the Gazan people for having the temerity to elect Hamas to govern Gaza in a free election. Ironically, it was the short-sighted Israelis who promoted Hamas in its early years during the late 1980s as a tactical means to divide and weaken Palestinian allegiances to the PLO.

So Turkey and Israel are maneuvering themselves and the United States into a trap between the moral high ground and the moral low ground for very different reasons. In the eyes of most of the world, Turkey is playing a constructive grand strategic card, while Israel is playing a destructive strategic card. One holds out hope for peace and justice while the other continues its warlike business as usual. But there is more. An Israeli attack on Turkey would be also an attack on the NATO Alliance. Under the terms of the NATO Treaty, such an attack should trigger what is known as an Article 5 response -- an attack on a NATO ally is an attack on all. This is what the US used to justify a NATO response to 9-11 in Afghanistan, even though the Afghan case was far less clear than the Turkish-Israeli imbroglio, because the Taliban was at most an accomplice to the 9-11 crime and may not have known about it in advance. If Israel carries through on its threat to attack a NATO warship, it would be a clear act of war. If the US (and the rest of NATO) does not respond, you can kiss NATO and Turkey goodbye, and the US would lose moral standing in the world to a greater degree than that engineered by George Bush and his fellow neocon travelers -- which is no small achievement. Nobody could ever trust the United States to live up to its formal treaty obligations. Our relations with Russia and China would be weakened dangerously, and Iran's position in the Middle East would be strengthened. The fall of dominoes would go on in all sorts of directions.

To borrow the unforgettable words of British Foreign Minister Edward Grey in the fateful summer of 1914, "the lights are going out all over" the Middle East, in NATO headquarters, and in the White House (assuming they were turned on). If Erdogan presses forward with his public promise to be on another Gaza aid ship or an escorting Turkish warship and if Israel acts on its threat to sink the ship carrying him, then like the chain of events of August 1914, the march to war could very well take on a life of its own.

We know what Israel will do if, as is likely, the US stands passively on the sidelines again, so the questions of the hour seem to be: Will Erdogan blink? Will the US force him to blink?

Study Cockburn's report and judge for yourself if blinking is a part of Erdogan's character, particularly, when he has maneuvered himself onto the moral high ground, and it is obvious to all but a few that the low grounders, like PM Netanyau, are playing the hapless Mr. Obama for a moral dupe -- again.

Franklin “Chuck” Spinney is a former military analyst for the Pentagon. He currently lives on a sailboat in the Mediterranean and can be reached at chuck_spinney@mac.com

http://www.counterpunch.org/spinney06112010.html
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:57 pm

even-handed reporter from the always fair Jerusalem Post as quoted by 17b wrote:The Gaza flotilla ship's captain, Mehmet Tubal, said while being investigated in Israel that he and other members of the Mavi Marmara's staff did all they could to prevent the activists from confronting soldiers, even throwing some of the IHH member's metal pipes and chains overboard.

Another senior member of the ship's staff said that 40 IHH activists took control of the Mavi Marmara and dictated the rest of the passengers' movements.


As it's not specified, presumably the "senior member" also spoke "while being investigated in Israel."

(If Israel asks, maybe Guantanamo can provide a corroborating statement from Abu Zubaydah?)

Whatever may have happened on the attacked ship - and the fact remains that all of the shooting was done by the attackers, not the supposed defenders - this nonsense is predicated on the idea that IHH members had no right to "confront" heavily armed commandos rapelling down on the Mavi Marmara from helicopters in international waters. Without the cheeky presumption that invaders have the right of "self-defense" if they're Israeli, it's hardly the condemnation Israel's defenders imagine.

Here is what's relevant:

After weeks of planning in the cabinet, the Israeli government chose to conduct this operation in the dark with helicopters and in international waters, when they could have waited for the unarmed civilian ships to reach the territorial line and meet them in daylight with coast guard ships. This decision is puzzling if the point was merely to stop the flotilla, which posed no threat of reaching Gaza by physically breaking the blockade. This decision only makes sense if the point was to make an aggressive show of strength and to display the readiness and inclination to cause casualties among those opposing the blockade, regardless of their nationality, civilian status, and location outside anyone's concept of Israeli or Gazan jurisdiction.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:18 pm

This is pure comedy gold!

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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby chiggerbit » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:25 pm

This decision only makes sense if the point was to make an aggressive show of strength and to display the readiness and inclination to cause casualties among those opposing the blockade, regardless of their nationality, civilian status, and location outside anyone's concept of Israeli or Gazan jurisdiction.


Regardless of their nationality? Worse than that, it had the look of having particularly targeted Turks/non-whites for assassination.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby Forgetting2 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:21 pm

Crew tried to stop IHH activists' violence before raid


throwing some of the IHH member's metal pipes and chains overboard


Is the idea that the IHH member came there looking for trouble? Are these IHH members former members of The Jets and The Sharks, bringing pipes and chains to a rumble with the IDF?
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby compared2what? » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:55 pm

17breezes wrote:'Marmara' captain: I opposed violence
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND YAAKOV LAPPIN
06/11/2010 13:22

Report:Crew tried to stop IHH activists' violence before raid.
Talkbacks (1)
The captain of the Mavi Marmara tried to convince dozens of IHH activists not to engage in violent clashes with the IDF two hours prior to the commando's boarding of the ship, reported Army Radio on Friday.

The Gaza flotilla ship's captain, Mehmet Tubal, said while being investigated in Israel that he and other members of the Mavi Marmara's staff did all they could to prevent the activists from confronting soldiers, even throwing some of the IHH member's metal pipes and chains overboard.


Another senior member of the ship's staff said that 40 IHH activists took control of the Mavi Marmara and dictated the rest of the passengers' movements.

The occurrence of violence aboard the Mavi Marmara may have been predetermined by the IHH 's purchase of the ship along with possible tacit approval from the Turkish government.

"[The] IHH acquired the Mavi Marmara ship from the AKP-run municipality of Istanbul. It is not conceivable that the IHH’s Gaza operation could have been carried out absent high-level government sanction," wrote Svante Cornell, a Swedish security expert who specializes in Eurasia, in an article published on Monday.

A journalist on-board the Mavi Marmara, described as having good links with the heads of the Turkish government and Bulent Yildirim, head of the IHH, had stated, "The flotilla was organized with the support of the Turkish government and Prime Minister Erdogan gave the instructions for it to set sail. That was despite the fact that everyone knew it would never reach its destination," according to the report.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=178172


I agree that what anyone said while under investigation in Israel -- which in this case (at best) means what anyone said while being held incommunicado in prison in Israel for a few days, immediately following a violent and traumatic event -- can't be construed as reliable until they confirm its truth when not being held as and/or by enemies.

You'd concede that was a reasonably cautious approach, right?

I mean, if I were on a jury for anyone's trial for anything, I'd regard a statement made in custody without representation as fully self-nullifying if that were the only evidence offered against a perp who hadn't been a chance to comment on it subsequently, even in a less fraught situation. Because doubt would be and is reasonable in any such case.

Which leaves a circumstantial case that the IHH's mission was state-approved, and (not-so-implicitly) personally approved by Erdogan. That certainly could be true, it's totally plausible. But it doesn't imply, suggest or prove that they went prepared for a violent fight. Or even to provoke a violent fight.

In fact, common sense suggests the reverse. Erdogan's a savvy enough politician to know he'd be in deep shit if he could be tied to a violent assault on the IDF. That's an act of war.

And an unnecessary one, too, since a mission that enormous with state backing and a plan for follow-through in the form of continued attempts to land aid in Gaza would have gotten him to the same place both politically and in PR terms eventually anyway.

And with no civilian Turkish citizen casualties on his side, if he cares about such things. Which he might not, being a head of state. Because there's also reasonable doubt about whether any head of state does, imo.

Still. It would have been an act of war for which he would have had to have been condemned and punished if he could be shown to be linked to it.

So although it's circumstantial either way, I'd say that if it really is inconceivable "that the IHH’s Gaza operation could have been carried out absent high-level government sanction," that argues against premeditated violence more than it does in favor of it.

I mean, it's not conclusive either way. But it's certainly not something anyone could have confidently declared to have been part of the plan if they'd been speaking in advance of events without explaining why the hell Erdogan would so blithely take a career-ending war-starting risk when he didn't have to.

In any event, Mr. Swedish expert doesn't actually say that it's inconceivable that the alleged initiation of armed conflict by the IHH was carried out with high-level government sanction.

The context in which he's quoted suggests it. But all he says is that it's inconceivable that the IHH's Gaza operation could have been carried out absent high-level government sanction. By which he could merely have meant: The high-profile attempt to land aid in Gaza and be turned back by the blockade, thus calling attention to the situation in a way that reflected poorly on Israel.

In a way that's totally within the common and legitimate parameters of the politics of spectacle, as practiced by every nation on earth. Including Israel and the United States. I mean, that's just how the game is played.
_____________________

Shorter version:

That doesn't prove anything about who did what during the fighting, one way or the other.

It just suggests that Turkey was strongly opposed to the Gaza blockade. Which doesn't need suggesting, since it's a matter of public record already.
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:17 pm

Was the Israeli "night vision" video of the Gaza flotilla attack staged in joint operation with the US defense contractor?

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20148&hl=
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Re: Flotilla Update: Israel Attacks Convoy, Deaths Reported (2)

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:37 pm

chiggerbit wrote:
This decision only makes sense if the point was to make an aggressive show of strength and to display the readiness and inclination to cause casualties among those opposing the blockade, regardless of their nationality, civilian status, and location outside anyone's concept of Israeli or Gazan jurisdiction.


Regardless of their nationality? Worse than that, it had the look of having particularly targeted Turks/non-whites for assassination.


That may be, but I stuck to what I consider establishable beyond reasonable doubt, as the known facts currently stand. I doubt there would have been hesitation to shoot white people who were judged to be in the way, or necessarily much effort given to determine skin hue before shooting them. Stories of a targeted assassination list notwithstanding. I'm considered a white guy in 95 percent of the situations I've ever found myself in, yet have been in places (in Europe) where some people refused to see me as anything other than a darkish Mediterranean and refused (initially) to accept my self-identification as an "American."
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