Huge explosion in Oslo

[justdrew]

As you already know I became one of the founding members of the PCCTS, Knights Templar in 2002 and among the very first Justiciar Knight Commanders

there's a guy in England with a sword and claiming Templar ancestry linage/legitimacy. He's involved with the tunnels beneath a city. Was part of a group that extracted an apology to the Templars from the pope some years ago. Was written up in fortean times, with a picture of him and his shinny sword the story covered the tunnels as well.

does that guy relate to this or is that a competing set of would-be "templars"

can't find the story on FT online free search. don't want to root through a bunch of old mags. anyone remember what I'm talking about?

the town with the tunnels is Hertford. haven't found the name of the dude covered in fortean times yet though.

Modern Templar organizations in England

Several modern organizations claim links with the medieval Templars. Some, such as the Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem (SMOTJ), also known as the "Ordo Supremus Militaris Templi Hierosolymitani" (OSMTH), have attained United Nations NGO (Non-Governmental Organization) status. The SMOTJ admits that their group was founded in 1804, "based on the traditions" of the medieval order, which legacy they use to promote humanitarian causes.[2] However, there is often public confusion about the gap in time between the 14th century dismantling of the medieval Templars, and the 19th century rise of more contemporary organizations.

According to a 2004 article in The Times, one modern group in Hertfordshire (not affiliated to OSMTH) claims that although the medieval order officially ceased to exist in the early 14th century, that the majority of the organization survived underground. The Times article states that the group has written to the Vatican, asking for an official apology for the medieval persecution of the Templars. In Rome in 2004, a Vatican spokesman said that the demand for an apology would be given “serious consideration”. However, Vatican insiders said that Pope John Paul II, 84 at the time, was under pressure from conservative cardinals to “stop saying sorry” for the errors of the past, after a series of papal apologies for the Crusades, the Inquisition, Christian anti-Semitism and the persecution of scientists and “heretics” such as Galileo

[seemslikeadream]

[stickdog99]

Unless he merely ripped off the guy, he has his own wikipedia entry.

On edit, Fjordman appears to have just been this guy's bestest internet buddy.

[kenoma]

Why English anyway, especially in a tome the size of Ulysses, if he was such a fanatical Norwegian nationalist and hater of "multiculturalism"?

From a brief scan of the screed, it sounds like pretty standard stuff from a contemporary European neo-fascist with intellectual pretensions. He's a third-positionist fascist, advocating a pan-Europeanist racism that wouldn't be too confined to Norwegian supremacism. People like him would think Europe is too small for petty, antiquated bigotries when Europeans face greater threats from Muslims and Communists. It's very unlikely that he's a holocaust denier, and in fact he's probably a Zionist, even if he doesn't personally like Jews.

[Bruce Dazzling]

As I said on my Facebook page this morning:

Bin Laden was unarmed in his bedroom and got his head blown off. Meanwhile, Anders Behring Breivik just got finished murdering 80+ kids, and must have been armed to the teeth, but he was taken into custody. ALIVE. But I'm probably crazy for finding this strange.

Well, we're not all American yet. I mean, we can't coherently maintain that the summary execution of Bin Laden (or whoever) was legally/morally/logically abhorrent while at the same time holding it up as the gold standard by which every other apprehension of a mass murderer should be judged.

You got my point exactly reversed, kenoma, which is understandable because I could have been clearer.

Bin Laden should have been aprehended alive.

For human rights reasons, but also because he obviously would have been a very interesting subject for CIA torturers, erm ... I mean ... enhanced coercive interrogators to question, assuming that the goal really is thwarting "terrorist" attacks as opposed to inciting and facilitating them.

[justdrew]

http://www.google.com/search?q=PCCTS%2C+Knights+Templar

table of contents from one of the "books"
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=7x5d6wGK

[MacCruiskeen]

I wish some of our resident Scandinavians would call in here to say something about "Andrew Berwick's"* remarkable attachment to the English language.

*That 32-year-old gamer, scholar, graphomaniac, bodybuilder, political scientist, Freemason, organic farmer, photoshopper of highly unflattering self-portraits, handsome man, fish-eyed freak, drug fiend, loner, international mover 'n' shaker, law-abiding citizen, ruthless and highly effective killer of Norwegians, fanatical Norwegian nationalist and hater of multiculturalism.

He did love him some English, that "Andrew Berwick". Like sunny, I want to see some actual evidence of who actually wrote that endless screed, I want to see proof that he is in fact identical with Anders Behring Breivik, and I am far from convinced, as yet, that he both wrote and acted alone.

[kenoma]

I am just struck by the sheer unusualness of it. The guys who apprehended him must indeed have been unusually brave, or humane, or trusting, or something. How did they know he wasn't wired to explode, for instance?

Yes, something very odd happened. I read that he wasn't wearing a full police uniform, just a poor imitation. How did he arrive on the island with what I assume was a fairly clunky big bag of weaponry and bullets? Why are there multiple aerial images of the massacre - which imply a helicopter overhead - without any police intervention?

[barracuda]

Video here of Breivik shooting kids on the island. Probably best not to even watch.

[Harvey]

I am just struck by the sheer unusualness of it. The guys who apprehended him must indeed have been unusually brave, or humane, or trusting, or something. How did they know he wasn't wired to explode, for instance?

I read he gave himself up quietly as soon as the police arrived, as outlined in his plan: he wanted to stay alive to start the propaganda phase from prison. cops arent allowed to execute you if you dont resist so he made use of that

Again, it seems he was shot and wounded before his capture.

Again, we are "told" he was shot, he was "wounded" before his capture. Barracuda, let's forget about Masons, lets forget about Neo-Nazis, let's forget about anything we are supposed to have learned from his facebook page. We don't know anything. All we know is what we haven't been actively encouraged to believe, in other words anything between 13th of february 1979 and 17th of July 2011.

Consider this:

Every piece of information relating to his him has come from Facebook. (Who posted it?) His views, beliefs, likes, interests, games, books and most importantly the 3 most distributed photos we have of him. Everything (with exception of the Twitter quote)

He created both his own Facebook and Twitter pages. Can we trust them? Seriously?

This is what the world's media has used to base it's entire profile on. No other verifiable sources are available. Really?

So Consider this carefully:

Why did his profile change over the course of the evening and morning to include Modern Warfare 2 in his game list? (Check the google cache)

And...Where was he between 13th February 1979 (DOB?) and 17th July (Facebook Creation) and does anyone have photos and proof he actually existed during these dates.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Good reminder about sources, Harvey.
I'd throw in that this needs to be applied to the Bradley Manning public perception machine, too.

RI board members are still kinda sloppy about sources and prone to chasing every thrown bone.

[babaqaq]

I was moved to write this today. Not to take away from the (as always) trenchant analysis and rigorously applied intuition that is RI, but to take Peter Dale Scott's advice to heart about using poetry to illuminate that which wishes to remain dark, if it got its way.

This is better than the nowords I have for how saddened I am by what has happened in Norway. (n.b: My father's parents were born in Norway)




For a lark,
on a Saturday,
stop to consider:
that it’s been planned out, at the
nape of the
western coast
of Scania;

or that while
reacting to
this monstrosity,
look instead at the species
of trees which
delight the
earth in Norway

and which are nobler
than nighttime
myths or
fairy tales
spun daily
on all levels
for all markets
and demographics;

how we are watched,
predilections
noted, like so many species
of birds, or fish.
each in their own
manner fulfilled without
their need to
resort to psychopathy
or its hand-maidens;

how the children and
change camping
at Utøya came to
their last in the shade
and yawning breadth
of the canopy
of that which waits
and watches, as well.

how we will always
be needed, because
without our fear,
their wombs are barren,
and their lives
so much dross,
in the mouth of the morning
awakening everywhere.

yet truth prevails

against a restless
something…words
for it? the framing’s
already been done,
hang your hammers
and levels again

my friends,
no end in sight
to the way
you cannot help
but notice how
obvious they’ve become

[barracuda]

Again, we are "told" he was shot, he was "wounded" before his capture. Barracuda, let's forget about Masons, lets forget about Neo-Nazis, let's forget about anything we are supposed to have learned from his facebook page. We don't know anything. All we know is what we haven't been actively encouraged to believe, in other words anything between 13th of february 1979 and 17th of July 2011.

No. I've read interviews of his friends and neighbors, seen postings he made over the course of years on various forums, as well as the manifesto. So let's not oversimplify the sources of our information here.

I agree that we haven't yet heard the lifestory of the man from an impeccable, unimpeachable source. As with most news items of any sort, I don't expect we shall. Nevertheless, that fact alone does not move me to blame the Israelis.

Changes in Facebook information is not unimpeachable either.

[kenoma]

You got my point exactly reversed, kenoma, which is understandable because I could have been clearer.

Bin Laden should have been aprehended alive.

For human rights reasons, but also because he obviously would have been a very interesting subject for CIA torturers, erm ... I mean ... enhanced coercive interrogators to question, assuming that the goal really is thwarting "terrorist" attacks as opposed to inciting and facilitating them.

Our wires are crossed here, Bruce, and it's my fault I think. I'm not saying you think this guy's execution should have been SOP. I'm just saying the fact he wasn't executed isn't necessarily a cause for suspicion, because the rules of procedure are different in Norway.
What is anomalous is that he didn't kill himself after his killing spree: that may or may not be be significant.

[Harvey]

Good reminder about sources, Harvey.
I'd throw in that this needs to be applied to the Bradley Manning public perception machine, too.

RI board members are still kinda sloppy about sources and prone to chasing every thrown bone.

I mean, what would we be reading if nothing had been posted a week ago on 17th of July, where would the investigation take us?