82, this is happening in Libya, just a few k's out of Tripoli (or closer to Syrte, it seems). There really is no problem, as far as the infrastructure goes, to upload an 80MB file in minutes from some sympathiser's ADSL-connected flat in Tripoli after doing the edits. Yes, they have ADSL and electricity. And water and washing machines and ATMs, and shops selling high-end cameras.
More interesting are the jumpsuits and, apparently, the dolly rig and crane?
- There were 21 hostages on the video, but Egyptian media had spoken of 20 abductees, whose names are known. Earlier images did not show the black man in the middle, who is (apparently) executed by the speaker in camo. Who is he? (Added to get to 21, perhaps...?)
- One shot in the video seems to have been filmed on a dolly, and another shot uses a crane. It's possible to rig something like that with a fishing rod or whatever, but more likely is an actual crane, which would have required quite a bit more organisation. Why? For it to look more like a movie?
- There have been rumours of the Egyptians' execution since the second group was kidnapped, on January 2, and a Libyan journo tweeted a report on January 4 that 13 bodies had been found near Syrte. Might they have been executed then? Why wait to release this? Maybe to push the Egyptians into air strikes, so putting stress on the Libyan peace negotiations to keep the chaos alive? (The Hassi government - the one not friendly to Egypt and with a strong Muslim Brotherhood flavour - has called the strikes a 'violation of Libya's sovereignty'.)
Stefano, I realize the latest video that I won't watch of Coptic Christians happened in Libya. I've seen enough of this as it is. I was more referring to that which happened in Iraq -- as the OP started things out. Everything leading up to where "we are now" happened in Iraq at that point when this thread began -- so we are led to believe, once again. I became curious as to the methods of what we're led to believe to perenially be a people who live in caves and mud huts (good for them because I would love to live in a sweet cave). I was being facetious, because I know this is untrue. I was merely remarking on what people are made to think, not know on their own. Their perception is racist. A couple of weeks ago, I called a friend's mother (I think I told this probably in this thread) to wish the family a happy birthday for my best friend who was murdered several years ago. She went into a "those people want to kill us and they're infiltrating us" mode, as the conversation went on. I had to pull out the "those people" didn't kill Bryan, yet he was killed by one of "us". I brought up the Aurora mass murder (which she lives near) and reminded her that he was "one of us". I told her that it was no reason to hate billions of people because of your perception of them. We had to agree to disagree, but there is no sense in how these beliefs wind up getting transmitted and given the stamp of social approval. This ISIS bullshit shows organization, funding and intent to confound. Which points the finger directly at "who benefits"?
It's like "anonymous" -- something I do not get either. I do not understand the doing of any kind of harm and never have. We're all here. There is no time for any kind of prejudice. Peaceful and gracious people/entities outnumber evil 99/1. It is also worth noting that this is temporal in scope as well -- the old Thanksgiving dinner trope of hanging out with your racist uncle and keeping your mouth shut in order to make shit go smoothly. Anyhow, 82_28 has successfully erased all prejudice et al to all he knows through the years through many loud arguments. Everybody now laughs when I say "psy-op" as in "82_28" is gonna be 82_28. But I know it opens their minds a bit.
So, yay me! But in truth I do it for universal kindness.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
- ISIS tell puzzled wannabe jihadi followers on and offline that focusing on Shia Muslims as the main enemy is more important than Israel
- Israel shoots down a Syrian fighter jet pounding ISIS and al Nursra targets
- IDF forces tend to "moderate" Syrian jihadis
Bibi equates Hamas with ISIS, and recently said liberals will allow ISIS in.
I mean it's no secret Turkey and Qatar have no issue with ISIS, even as 9/11 orchestrating/al Qaeda funding Saudi Arabia builds a giant wall to try and ward off a future ISIS attack Israel seems like it'd be the last country targeted by the Islamic State
Also isn't it a hoot that ALL of the countries the US government and allies either invaded or used proxy fighters to topple(Iraq, Libya and Syria) have largely fallen to this "ISIS"? Oh I remember when Obama and all the liberal and right wing dingbats were begging everyone to join in the anti Ghadaffi hysteria, even as Ghadaffi was saying it was a trap to bring in al Qaeda. Surprise surprise.
- The Egyptian and Libyan armed forces have stated unequivocally that ALL of ISIS' weapons and ammunition are supplied by NATO's Turkey or by the tiny statelet of Qatar, home to the largest US military bases in the region;
- In his latest speech, Hizbullah's Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah noted that last month Israel crossed into Syria and bombed two civilian cars containing seven Hizbullah members and one Iranian general, killing them all. Yet, only a short distance away, right along Israel's own borders, there is a large terrorist Al-Qaeda camp, which Israel clearly did not deem to be a problem, and has left totally unmolested. In fact, Israel has admitted to treating wounded Al-Qaeda terrorists in its own hospitals.
NAILED IT Alice. Of all I have read of this "Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham", this is pretty much spot on. If Saudi Arabia was instrumental in al Qaeda of old, Turkey and to some extent Qatar sit behind ISIS in some capacity. As if to think all of their Western military hardware has simply been "captured on the battlefield".
Yeah it's gotten almost cartoonishly weird how Israel goes out of its way to ignore IS and al-Nursra/al Qaeda positions right along the Golan Heights and elsewhere and instead continues to hit Syrian positions hitting the jihadist targets. I mean terror funding Saudi Arabia, the kings of Wahhabist militancy seems more scared of "ISIS" than Israel.
Obviously the more countries "ISIS" pisses off, the more their camps/hardware/bases/soldiers will be wiped out...which makes me think the strategy isn't so much to lure all these countries into multiple theaters to fight simply THEM(ISIS) but drawn to multiple theaters for another kind of war trap.
And yeah the ISIS propaganda keeps getting all the more slick and bizarre.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
A few weeks ago, I was on the phone to my very smart sister, who lives in the US. We started talking about politics and what's happening over here, and she said, "It's all so confusing, I can't figure who's who and what's what anymore. Every day, it seems there's one more "side" and I have to try to figure out where it fits." The day before, an American guy who's my Facebook friend, who is politically quite savvy, wrote the same thing to me. He said the Ukraine situation, for example, was very clear to him, but when it came to the Middle East, he just got lost.
That's not an accident. There's an incredible amount of noise around the Middle East, lots of lies and truths and half-truths all indiscriminately being jumbled up and broadcast by the media. There's a lot of fog, and mirrors and fabricated images, a Wag the Dog world orchestrated by masters of the art. It's a world of confusion, where your only guide can be what you know, and your own logic and your own direct experience. The more you know about the world, history, human nature, etc., the more solid your logic, and the more direct experience you have, the clearer things become.
It's amazing how relevant history is, and how important it is to understanding what's happening today. Every time I pick up a history book, I'm floored by some passage that is as, or sometimes much more, enlightening than today's newspaper headlines. For example, I just finished reading a book about Napoleon's conquest of Egypt at the turn of the 18th century, and came upon this quote by him:
"I saw myself founding a new religion, marching into Asia riding an elephant, a turban on my head and in my hands the new Koran I would have written to suit my needs."
Napoleon, who was an atheist, had very grandiose ambitions. He saw himself as a new Alexander the Great, founding a global empire. He saw the conquest of Egypt as the first step in conquering first the East and then the rest of the world. The British ruined his plan, and then set about implementing it themselves, only to be edged out later by the American Empire. But it's fascinating to see how many elements of Napoleon's plan were actually used by all three.
All three in effect used religion as an essential tool of empire, to be manipulated and modified according to their own hegemonic needs. This got me thinking about all those awful "new religions" implanted parasitically to old religions, centered especially around the Arab world. Zionism vs Judaism, Wahhabism/Islamism vs Islam, Christian Zionism/the Christian Right/Evangelism vs Christianity. They all first emerged at around the same time, in the early to mid-19th century, just around the time the British empire was expanding into the Middle East. Not surprisingly, certain secretive, elite circles in Britain played an instrumental role in the rise and propagation of all three ideologies which, again not surprisingly, are all remarkably similar to each other, if not interchangeable, especially in their most extreme forms, which have been gradually if inexorably taking over in what is often called the "rise of the Right" among all three.
- They are all extremely chauvinistic, even supremacist, and regard their own as God's Chosen People, divinely ordained to rule;
- God's commandments and holy scriptures are interpreted (and sometimes deliberately misinterpreted) in political and material terms rather than spiritual. (For example, Pat Robertson has said: "There will never be world peace until God’s house and God’s people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." Identical pronouncements are regularly made by proponents of the other two ideologies);
- They are fundamentally incapable of coexisting peacefully with each other, or with anyone, really;
- All three are centered upon the concept of "holy warfare" and the purity of their own arms and others' lives as worthless. Women, children, the elderly, all can be massacred without the slightest twinge of conscience. Similarly, everything is permitted: lying, cheating, stealing, torturing, all for the glory of God and the fulfillment of His Will;
- All three transcend national boundaries, and view their adherents as part of one "nation" (or "ummah" or "people") to whom they owe their real loyalty, far more than to their actual country. In fact, these ideologies encourage betrayal of their countries, when its own interests conflict with those of their "people";
- They view their purpose in messianic terms, to prepare for the arrival of the Messiah, who will elevate them and destroy or enslave everybody else.
- They are agents of division and strife, of chaos, of oppression and misery, and nourish themselves on fear and rage, which they also produce.
So, my contribution to dispelling the fog is to begin by lumping the three together. Not just because they really are one core ideology wearing different hats, but because in a very real way, their members function symbiotically, especially at the highest levels, where they sometimes even merge. Follow the strings of one far enough, and you come face to face with the other two. If we could follow them even farther, I have no doubt we would find one, the head of the pyramid. Nevertheless, they represent a tiny, tiny minority of humankind, though their resources and the power of their reach support the grotesque illusion that they are legion, if not the majority.
Understanding this, and confirming it with one's own research if necessary, is the first step.
There are voices around the world who are speaking out, but their voices are being drowned out, disregarded, or cynically misinterpreted. The Egyptian president, who is a deeply devout Muslim in the Sufi tradition, is one of those voices. His important speech to Al-Azhar, when it has been reported at all, has been distorted to mean the opposite of what he meant, as an attack against Islam itself, while nothing could be further from the truth.
Below is another similar, important yet universally ignored speech, given by the Crown Prince of Bahrain Salman bin Hamad Al Khalifa last December. It's worth hearing.*
* Yes, there are certain ironies and paradoxes here, to which the Crown Prince is apparently oblivious. Still, a line has been drawn in the sand, and he is acknowledging that.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
stefano » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:14 am wrote:82, this is happening in Libya, just a few k's out of Tripoli (or closer to Syrte, it seems). There really is no problem, as far as the infrastructure goes, to upload an 80MB file in minutes from some sympathiser's ADSL-connected flat in Tripoli after doing the edits. Yes, they have ADSL and electricity. And water and washing machines and ATMs, and shops selling high-end cameras.
More interesting are the jumpsuits and, apparently, the dolly rig and crane?
- There were 21 hostages on the video, but Egyptian media had spoken of 20 abductees, whose names are known. Earlier images did not show the black man in the middle, who is (apparently) executed by the speaker in camo. Who is he? (Added to get to 21, perhaps...?)
- One shot in the video seems to have been filmed on a dolly, and another shot uses a crane. It's possible to rig something like that with a fishing rod or whatever, but more likely is an actual crane, which would have required quite a bit more organisation. Why? For it to look more like a movie?
- There have been rumours of the Egyptians' execution since the second group was kidnapped, on January 2, and a Libyan journo tweeted a report on January 4 that 13 bodies had been found near Syrte. Might they have been executed then? Why wait to release this? Maybe to push the Egyptians into air strikes, so putting stress on the Libyan peace negotiations to keep the chaos alive? (The Hassi government - the one not friendly to Egypt and with a strong Muslim Brotherhood flavour - has called the strikes a 'violation of Libya's sovereignty'.)
Hello Alice, good to see you back.
Yeah, it's a jib shot, and a dolly shot.
For the dolly shot, you have to lay track on the ground. Then you have to level it, and keep the sand off of it while you're shooting. This takes a crew.
An example:
The jib doesn't have to be a "crane" per se any more. Used to be it had to be, and had to hold two people, usually like an enormous see-saw. But now we have remotely operated camera heads which can be operated from the ground, which frees up the cranes to be more lightweight and versatile. The top of the line is the Technocrane.
But this rig is super expensive and extremely heavy. Getting it to the beach is possible, but not without a lot of work. And the shot itself isn't that grand, so it was more than likely a jib, like this:
All of this required experienced crew and operators, especially for the jib shot. Crew members specialize in jib arms, usually owner/operators but not always.
All so fucking WEIRD.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Well, I peeked, I clicked on a few spots in the video, enough to see bits of the sickening gore, which does look real enough. It could also easily be fake. However -- aside from the horror experienced by the victims -- the genuineness of the video seems to matter little when it comes to its desired effect. And the stylish production is just so bizarre.
Whatever the hell is going on, we must remember this:
Reality-based community is an informal term in the United States [. . .]
The source of the term is a quotation in an October 17, 2004, The New York Times Magazine article by writer Ron Suskind, "Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush," quoting an unnamed aide to George W. Bush (later attributed to Karl Rove[1]):
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
PS. I like Prince Hamad's comments that Alice posted above (the obvious ironies made me laugh but his main point is a vital one) -- thanks, Alice, your contributions to this subject are invaluable.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
Elvis, sometimes I think we should all have that "reality" quote stamped on our forehead.
Some people have speculated that the 21 were so oddly calm because they'd rehearsed several times. In fact, when I saw the video, I thought a likely scenario was that the men, after being captured by religious fanatics, or so they thought, found themselves face-to-face with their real captors, who didn't fit at all their image of Islamist nuts. Don't forget that all 21 were from villages in Minya, in Upper Egypt, which for decades was a hotbed of Islamist thugs, including the Jama'a Islameya and the Salafeya Jihadeya, who freely terrorized and bullied the residents, especially under the Morsi regime, where they openly swaggered around wielding machine guns and other weapons. (As I wrote this, I flashed to an image of Zionist settlers armed with machine guns, walking through a Palestinian town). In other words, they are very, very familiar with the type.
Instead, and here I'm speculating, they found themselves brought before a well-dressed, polite khawaga, a foreign gentleman, who assured them that they would be safe, but that they should just play along for a film, after which they would be paid and released. All 21 are desperately poor. They were willing to risk their lives, to smuggle themselves to Libya despite the travel ban and the knowledge that Egyptians, and especially Egyptian Christians, are being targeted by ISIS there. One of them, when a family member begged him not to go, answered: "I'm dead anyway." They didn't seem drugged to me. They seemed to be playing along, not totally comfortable with it, but game. Intimidated rather than terrified.
A well-known professional cinematographer was interviewed yesterday on tv, and he analyzed the video practically frame by frame (except for the gory final scene). He pointed out that recording voices at the beach, with the wind and sound of the waves, is technically very challenging, and that the soundtrack had been filtered and edited professionally. Similarly, several cameras had been used, yet the color was precisely calibrated to be identical in the film taken by all three. The cameras used were extremely high end. The overall technical quality was very meticulous and professional. He pointed out that Libya, of all the Arab countries, is the least advanced technically when it comes to film, photography and cinema production.
The cinematographer said that he'd also examined the video of the Jordanian pilot, and that although it was also clearly done by professionals, this one was of even higher quality, and that there was no doubt whatsoever that it was made by experienced and professional movie-makers. He also said that this guy, from the Sotloff video in Syria,
is the same as this guy, from this latest video from Libya:
And yes, he is wearing eyebrow makeup.
Now, for a reality check: back in 1990, Iraq had one of the most powerful armies in the Middle East. Over a million highly trained officers and soldiers, battle-hardened by a decade in the crucible of a vicious war, with an arsenal comprising the best state-of-the-art weaponry that oil money can buy, and that Western factories can produce. When Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait, this army was defeated and practically decimated within a few short weeks. Just sayin.
One more thing: if I take a lot of drugs, and suspend my disbelief in formaldehyde, I can swallow the idea that somehow a bunch of liver-eating and head-sawing fanatics who mangle the Quran and grossly misquote it, count professional film-makers among their membership, and have top of the line studio equipment. And that they have cloth and uniform factories that churn out exact copies of the clothing issued by the US military. And that they are able to extract and sell crude oil and gas and move the money around while remaining under the radar of the world's intelligence agencies. And that nearly 6000 air-raids by the US-led 'coalition' somehow only managed to kill a few dozen of them (while ONE air-raid by the Egyptian air-force killed 40-50, and destroyed an entire training facility and a massive weapons cache).
But please, for the love of God, don't expect me to believe that they also supply hospitals with viable stolen human organs:
Iraq envoy to UN: Islamic State might be harvesting organs Associated Press By CARA ANNA 4 hours ago
UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations asked the U.N. Security Council on Tuesday to look at allegations that the Islamic State group is using organ harvesting as a way to finance its operations.
Ambassador Mohamed Alhakim told reporters that in the past few weeks, bodies with surgical incisions and missing kidneys or other body parts have been found in shallow mass graves.
"We have bodies. Come and examine them," he said. "It is clear they are missing certain parts."
He also said a dozen doctors have been "executed" in Mosul for refusing to participate in organ harvesting. .... Link
Quick! When you think of the international "organ trafficking" market, what's the first Middle Eastern country that comes to your mind?
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
AlicetheKurious » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:16 am wrote:Quick! When you think of the international "organ trafficking" market, what's the first Middle Eastern country that comes to your mind?
Why, Israel, of course.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
That sizzling sound you hear is my brain short-circuiting. These guys are not only NOT Muslim "fanatics", they're not Muslim at all. Muslims pray in only one direction, the direction of Mecca. This is the equivalent of a professed Christian who doesn't know what a cross is.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
Re-reading this entire thread, I really appreciate every single person's take on here. No idea why we ever have infighting on RI as all y'all guys views are really good.
Anyways three points
1 - CNN and NBC has been running with the headline news that "ISIS" is an apocalyptic end of times death cult. When I first started talking about "ISIS" here on RI last summer I was immediately drawn to the American acronym given to "Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham"(or ISIS) given we've talked endlessly about the name ISIS and the occult agenda.
2. Heavy sedation tranqs has to be the main explanation for the beheading victims behavor
3. Alice just posted what has to be one of the BEST RI quotes in modern history
Napoleon, who was an atheist, had very grandiose ambitions. He saw himself as a new Alexander the Great, founding a global empire. He saw the conquest of Egypt as the first step in conquering first the East and then the rest of the world. The British ruined his plan, and then set about implementing it themselves, only to be edged out later by the American Empire. But it's fascinating to see how many elements of Napoleon's plan were actually used by all three.
All three in effect used religion as an essential tool of empire, to be manipulated and modified according to their own hegemonic needs. This got me thinking about all those awful "new religions" implanted parasitically to old religions, centered especially around the Arab world. Zionism vs Judaism, Wahhabism/Islamism vs Islam, Christian Zionism/the Christian Right/Evangelism vs Christianity. They all first emerged at around the same time, in the early to mid-19th century, just around the time the British empire was expanding into the Middle East. Not surprisingly, certain secretive, elite circles in Britain played an instrumental role in the rise and propagation of all three ideologies which, again not surprisingly, are all remarkably similar to each other, if not interchangeable, especially in their most extreme forms, which have been gradually if inexorably taking over in what is often called the "rise of the Right" among all three.
- They are all extremely chauvinistic, even supremacist, and regard their own as God's Chosen People, divinely ordained to rule;
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
Speaking of weird death cults, here's a video taken by the Libyans after an Egyptian bombing raid against an ISIS camp. The ISIS guy has a strange, masonic-type drawing on his back. The Libyans are asking, "Is he English?" "This guy is supposed to be a Muslim?" "He must be Jewish!" They are mystified by the drawing.
Good calls by all. That praying in different directions thing is something I would have totally missed. I knew/know that Muslims pray in the same direction. Alice, thanks for the bang up analysis. Nordic, thanks for the bang up analysis. It seems as though we have thoroughly unpacked this given what we know thus far. To echo Alice's sister and none of this making any sense, I think we've all called this for what it is and that is something is asthetically off -- if we're to believe this is some ragtag group. We've all detected this.
So, organ harvesting? I'm prepared to accept that. Another something that I would not have ever considered.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
AlicetheKurious » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:15 pm wrote:Speaking of weird death cults, here's a video taken by the Libyans after an Egyptian bombing raid against an ISIS camp. The ISIS guy has a strange, masonic-type drawing on his back. The Libyans are asking, "Is he English?" "This guy is supposed to be a Muslim?" "He must be Jewish!" They are mystified by the drawing.
But it seems identical to those found on the backs of ISIS members killed in Iraq. I can't begin to guess what kind of writing that is:
I was looking at various runes and what kind of writing it is. It seems to be closest to masonic runes. The pyramid at the bottom of the ankh sorta leads in that direction.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
