The Wikileaks Question

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:43 am

10.30am: Here's a statement from Metropolitan Police:

Officers from the Metropolitan Police Extradition Unit have this morning arrested Julian Assange on behalf of the Swedish authorities on suspicion of rape.

Julian Assange, 39, was arrested on a European Arrest Warrant by appointment at a London police station at 9.30am.

He is accused by the Swedish authorities of one count of unlawful coercion, two counts of sexual molestation and one count of rape, all alleged to have been committed in August 2010.

Assange is due to appear at City of Westminster Magistrates' Court today.

Sam Jones is on his way to the court.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/201 ... ve-updates

*

on edit:

Image

Image

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
User avatar
vanlose kid
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:22 am

nathan28 wrote:
Belligerent Savant wrote:This Assange character has his face in all the papers, his name everywhere, yet he continues to roam the earth with seemingly minimal fear while "smear" campaigns are being leveled against him so that some may think "THE MAN" is trying to take him down.



Man, it's a good thing that not everyone is falling for the stories we're working all this OT on here at ZioDisney to restore Assange's credibility. I mean, take a look at this, what a joke, how can anyone believe that you'd get drunk and wind up at her place? What a joke, I can't believe all the sheeple fall for this nonsense.

Image


Hunt for WikiLeaks' Julian Assange may end with surrender

THE hunt may soon be over for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, as the fugitive Australian plans to surrender to British police overnight.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/hunt-for-wikileaks-julian-assange-may-end-with-surrender/story-e6frf7lf-1225967095676

Julian Assange Expected To Appear In U.K. Court As U.S. Also Tightens Screws

WikiLeaks leader Julian Assange is widely expected to appear in a British court room Tuesday as he threatens to release a massive new batch of secret diplomatic cables.


http://www.neontommy.com/news/2010/12/julian-assange-expected-appear-uk-court-us-also-tightens-screws

Assange in talks to come out of hiding

By Anthony Faiola
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, December 7, 2010
LONDON - Julian Assange, founder of the WikiLeaks Web site, was in negotiations with British authorities late Monday to come out of hiding for what is set to be a high-profile extradition hearing to face criminal allegations in Sweden.

Assange - whose Web site's release of thousands of classified U.S. diplomatic cables is generating outrage and embarrassment in official circles - was reportedly close to agreeing to appear in a British courtroom as early as Tuesday. Scotland Yard declined to comment on the negotiations.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 07295.html


So, assuming for a moment Wikileaks/Assange is ultimately part of an agenda of "the few" -- given the resources, 'staging' capabilities and machinations of these "few", how difficult would it be to arrange for the above scenarios [arrests, etc -- all to further the image of Assange as the lone hero taking on The Man]? Do you think it would be difficult, for those that control/manage the media, control/manage national elections and global wars... ?

how difficult do you suppose it would be to create this "story" for our digestion?

Purely macro-level rhetoric, of course.

However, it's easy to get lured into the minutia, particularly when it's all coming at us so quickly, at such an accelerated pace..
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby 82_28 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:23 am

I don't know why anyone would think it to be completely out of the realm of possibility this is all a crock of shit. Seriously. The sex scandal take down has already been done vis a vis Clinton -- Bill Clinton that is. Clinton is a "team player" though. He greased the psychological skids for this all to happen in the first place.

Just humor me if you want to. If you want to. How would you write a crazy good psy-op, espionage, international intrigue, sexy, perhaps even a little dystopian/totalitarian society sci-fi thrown in, thriller? I bet it would come out a hell of a lot looking like this. Jesus Christ. I really wish Terry Jones would weigh in on this. This seems to me to be a completely pre-envisioned yarn. I'm tired of trying to explain why I think it's interesting and not gospel, orthodox, conspir-a-tard truth. This talking over one another's heads could fucking very well be the point. Now wait. Should you think me going off in that direction is the point of what I am saying, then you're missing the point of what I am saying. I'm no fucking soothsayer or prophet, I'm just a lowly motherfucker who swears a lot (good cover -- I know). Yet again, this is the point. To trust nothing from the Internet, BY TRUSTING IT! Accepting it. Yes, yes, we know that we as the US government (and other governments/corporations) fucked up here and there. Yes, yes we understand the importance of the Internet. But this simply underscores the importance we feel our "overlords" of the systems of control and safety have.

How can you simultaneously let out a barrage of artillery murdering people, film and tape the whole fucking thing, keep it, allow it to be reproduced/copied whatever by some rogue whistleblower and then apply that "sneakiness" to the whole fact that it got out at all, when all along, as proud Ford driving Americans, we know it is going on? Then act surprised? Then act disgusted? Then say some things are unfortunate? People are DOWN WITH WAR. And as in "DOWN", I mean, they're cool with it. People want to see other people dead, humiliated, destroyed, trembling, terrified. Now if this Assange was an MLK figure, I could and would be down with it. But all we ever see are these posing photos of him with all manner of ever changing cyberpunk hair dos. Is he right wing or is he left wing? Is he a rapist or is he being falsely accused?

This shit is stupid. We're simply being let to know what they want us to know. But why they're letting us know it, is because there is something else in the works.

What kind of clearance does it take to get your hands on anything confidential when it comes to crimes such as the millions I do not doubt which have happened in just the last decade? I say, all the shit they let you get your hands on. It was meant to be released/leaked and I have a feeling it was meant to feign powerlessness when the reverse is the truth. It is as a snake in the grass.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby 82_28 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:29 am

Belligerent Savant wrote:
nathan28 wrote:
Belligerent Savant wrote:This Assange character has his face in all the papers, his name everywhere, yet he continues to roam the earth with seemingly minimal fear while "smear" campaigns are being leveled against him so that some may think "THE MAN" is trying to take him down.



Man, it's a good thing that not everyone is falling for the stories we're working all this OT on here at ZioDisney to restore Assange's credibility. I mean, take a look at this, what a joke, how can anyone believe that you'd get drunk and wind up at her place? What a joke, I can't believe all the sheeple fall for this nonsense.

Image


Hunt for WikiLeaks' Julian Assange may end with surrender

THE hunt may soon be over for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, as the fugitive Australian plans to surrender to British police overnight.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/hunt-for-wikileaks-julian-assange-may-end-with-surrender/story-e6frf7lf-1225967095676

Julian Assange Expected To Appear In U.K. Court As U.S. Also Tightens Screws

WikiLeaks leader Julian Assange is widely expected to appear in a British court room Tuesday as he threatens to release a massive new batch of secret diplomatic cables.


http://www.neontommy.com/news/2010/12/julian-assange-expected-appear-uk-court-us-also-tightens-screws

Assange in talks to come out of hiding

By Anthony Faiola
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, December 7, 2010
LONDON - Julian Assange, founder of the WikiLeaks Web site, was in negotiations with British authorities late Monday to come out of hiding for what is set to be a high-profile extradition hearing to face criminal allegations in Sweden.

Assange - whose Web site's release of thousands of classified U.S. diplomatic cables is generating outrage and embarrassment in official circles - was reportedly close to agreeing to appear in a British courtroom as early as Tuesday. Scotland Yard declined to comment on the negotiations.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 07295.html


So, assuming for a moment Wikileaks/Assange is ultimately part of an agenda of "the few" -- given the resources, 'staging' capabilities and machinations of these "few", how difficult would it be to arrange for the above scenarios [arrests, etc -- all to further the image of Assange as the lone hero taking on The Man]? Do you think it would be difficult, for those that control/manage the media, control/manage national elections and global wars... ?

how difficult do you suppose it would be to create this "story" for our digestion?

Purely macro-level rhetoric, of course.

However, it's easy to get lured into the minutia, particularly when it's all coming at us so quickly, at such an accelerated pace..


Well see, it happened on a Tuesday. Thus there is ample time in the week for the "media" to run with it now. Sound bites, quick cuts to images and footage, but nothing that remotely questions the "wars", the graft, the scams. Just the story about Assange, the sideshow, the spectacle and now the "tonight we ask the question: how can state secrets that keep our freedoms safe, our soldiers alive in these trying times, be kept secret?"
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby wintler2 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:36 am

#n1c0dw tweet :Uploading insurance.aes256 @ 10Mbit, If he is arrested the key will be released soon

There goes bedtime.


Pirate Parties Supply Wikileaks With Much Needed Servers
Written by Ernesto on December 05, 2010

While most traditional political parties are wary of supporting the actions of whistleblower site Wikileaks, Pirate Parties around the world have made it very clear whose side they are on. Just before the weekend Wikileaks moved to a Pirate Party owned domain, and today a conglomerate of Pirate Parties have just announced that they are now providing the site with several much needed mirror servers.
..
Just a few days ago Wikileaks was ‘saved‘ by the Swiss Pirate Party, who helped the whistleblower site after they were kicked out by their nameserver provider. Today, a coalition of Pirate Parties is stepping up to host a worldwide network of mirror sites for Wikileaks, making it virtually impossible to shut the operation down.

“Pirate Parties from around the world, including the Pirate Party UK, today reaffirmed their commitment to whistleblowing worldwide. Concerned about freedom of information, opinion and press, the Pirate Parties have decided in a joint resolution to make Wikileaks available on a worldwide mirroring infrastructure,” the UK Pirate Party just announced. ..
hattip to anonops.net
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:42 am



Now at midnight all the agents
And the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do
Then they bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
And then the kerosene
Is brought down from the castles
By insurance men who go
Check to see that nobody is escaping
To Desolation Row

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
User avatar
vanlose kid
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:29 am

`The truth will always win’ - Julian Assange writes
Tuesday, December 07, 10 (11:26 pm)
Wikileaks founder Julian Assange wrote this Op-Ed for The Australian today:

Key lines:


* WikiLeaks is fearlessly publishing facts that need to be made public.

* The dark days of corruption in the Queensland government before the Fitzgerald inquiry are testimony to what happens when the politicians gag the media from reporting the truth.

* (My idea is) to use internet technologies in new ways to report the truth.

* People have said I am anti-war: for the record, I am not. Sometimes nations need to go to war, and there are just wars.

* The Gillard government (Australia) is trying to shoot the messenger because it doesn’t want the truth revealed.

Text follows:


IN 1958 a young Rupert Murdoch, then owner and editor of Adelaide’s The News, wrote: “In the race between secrecy and truth, it seems inevitable that truth will always win.”

His observation perhaps reflected his father Keith Murdoch’s expose that Australian troops were being needlessly sacrificed by incompetent British commanders on the shores of Gallipoli. The British tried to shut him up but Keith Murdoch would not be silenced and his efforts led to the termination of the disastrous Gallipoli campaign.

Nearly a century later, WikiLeaks is also fearlessly publishing facts that need to be made public.

I grew up in a Queensland country town where people spoke their minds bluntly. They distrusted big government as something that could be corrupted if not watched carefully. The dark days of corruption in the Queensland government before the Fitzgerald inquiry are testimony to what happens when the politicians gag the media from reporting the truth.

These things have stayed with me. WikiLeaks was created around these core values. The idea, conceived in Australia , was to use internet technologies in new ways to report the truth.

WikiLeaks coined a new type of journalism: scientific journalism. We work with other media outlets to bring people the news, but also to prove it is true. Scientific journalism allows you to read a news story, then to click online to see the original document it is based on. That way you can judge for yourself: Is the story true? Did the journalist report it accurately?

Democratic societies need a strong media and WikiLeaks is part of that media. The media helps keep government honest. WikiLeaks has revealed some hard truths about the Iraq and Afghan wars, and broken stories about corporate corruption.

People have said I am anti-war: for the record, I am not. Sometimes nations need to go to war, and there are just wars. But there is nothing more wrong than a government lying to its people about those wars, then asking these same citizens to put their lives and their taxes on the line for those lies. If a war is justified, then tell the truth and the people will decide whether to support it.

If you have read any of the Afghan or Iraq war logs, any of the US embassy cables or any of the stories about the things WikiLeaks has reported, consider how important it is for all media to be able to report these things freely.

WikiLeaks is not the only publisher of the US embassy cables. Other media outlets, including Britain ‘s The Guardian, The New York Times, El Pais in Spain and Der Spiegel in Germany have published the same redacted cables.

Yet it is WikiLeaks, as the co-ordinator of these other groups, that has copped the most vicious attacks and accusations from the US government and its acolytes. I have been accused of treason, even though I am an Australian, not a US, citizen. There have been dozens of serious calls in the US for me to be “taken out” by US special forces. Sarah Palin says I should be “hunted down like Osama bin Laden”, a Republican bill sits before the US Senate seeking to have me declared a “transnational threat” and disposed of accordingly. An adviser to the Canadian Prime Minister’s office has called on national television for me to be assassinated. An American blogger has called for my 20-year-old son, here in Australia, to be kidnapped and harmed for no other reason than to get at me.

And Australians should observe with no pride the disgraceful pandering to these sentiments by Prime Minister Gillard and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have not had a word of criticism for the other media organisations. That is because The Guardian, The New York Times and Der Spiegel are old and large, while WikiLeaks is as yet young and small.

We are the underdogs. The Gillard government is trying to shoot the messenger because it doesn’t want the truth revealed, including information about its own diplomatic and political dealings.

Has there been any response from the Australian government to the numerous public threats of violence against me and other WikiLeaks personnel? One might have thought an Australian prime minister would be defending her citizens against such things, but there have only been wholly unsubstantiated claims of illegality. The Prime Minister and especially the Attorney-General are meant to carry out their duties with dignity and above the fray. Rest assured, these two mean to save their own skins. They will not.

Every time WikiLeaks publishes the truth about abuses committed by US agencies, Australian politicians chant a provably false chorus with the State Department: “You’ll risk lives! National security! You’ll endanger troops!” Then they say there is nothing of importance in what WikiLeaks publishes. It can’t be both. Which is it?

It is neither. WikiLeaks has a four-year publishing history. During that time we have changed whole governments, but not a single person, as far as anyone is aware, has been harmed. But the US , with Australian government connivance, has killed thousands in the past few months alone.

US Secretary of Defence Robert Gates admitted in a letter to the US congress that no sensitive intelligence sources or methods had been compromised by the Afghan war logs disclosure. The Pentagon stated there was no evidence the WikiLeaks reports had led to anyone being harmed in Afghanistan . NATO in Kabul told CNN it couldn’t find a single person who needed protecting. The Australian Department of Defence said the same. No Australian troops or sources have been hurt by anything we have published.

But our publications have been far from unimportant. The US diplomatic cables reveal some startling facts:

The US asked its diplomats to steal personal human material and information from UN officials and human rights groups, including DNA, fingerprints, iris scans, credit card numbers, internet passwords and ID photos, in violation of international treaties. Presumably Australian UN diplomats may be targeted, too.

King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia asked the US Officials in Jordan and Bahrain want Iran ‘s nuclear program stopped by any means available.

Britain’s Iraq inquiry was fixed to protect “US interests”.

Sweden is a covert member of NATO and US intelligence sharing is kept from parliament.


The US is playing hardball to get other countries to take freed detainees from Guantanamo Bay . Barack Obama agreed to meet the Slovenian President only if Slovenia took a prisoner. Our Pacific neighbour Kiribati was offered millions of dollars to accept detainees.


In its landmark ruling in the Pentagon Papers case, the US Supreme Court said “only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government”. The swirling storm around WikiLeaks today reinforces the need to defend the right of all media to reveal the truth.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/ ... s/julian1/

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
User avatar
vanlose kid
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:36 am

vanlose kid wrote:10.30am: Here's a statement from Metropolitan Police:

Officers from the Metropolitan Police Extradition Unit have this morning arrested Julian Assange on behalf of the Swedish authorities on suspicion of rape.

Julian Assange, 39, was arrested on a European Arrest Warrant by appointment at a London police station at 9.30am.

He is accused by the Swedish authorities of one count of unlawful coercion, two counts of sexual molestation and one count of rape, all alleged to have been committed in August 2010.

Assange is due to appear at City of Westminster Magistrates' Court today.

Sam Jones is on his way to the court.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/201 ... ve-updates

*

on edit:

Image

Image



*

follow up:

1.15pm: Afua Hirsch, our legal affairs editor, explains the extradition process and what is likely to happen in the court.

Assange's arrest by police this morning will kick-start the fast-tracked extradition process, using the European Arrest Warrant system to attempt to return him to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning regarding a rape charge.

Swedish criminal law experts said this morning that little was known about the actual rape allegations Assange is facing in the country, in line with legal requirements to protect anonymity and preserve confidentiality for sex crimes.

However the activation of an EAW by UK police suggests Assange has now been formally charged by Swedish prosecutors, and could face a period of detention in Sweden upon his return.

But Assange's legal team remains determined to fight his extradition on grounds ranging from the failure of authorities to provide him with details of the warrant issued by Sweden, and human rights grounds – including that the Wikileaks founder may be unfairly deprived of his liberty in Sweden, and that he risks not facing a fair trial.

The media attention surrounding Assange's case is likely to complicate any future criminal proceedings, although the lack of a jury system in Sweden is likely to fuel arguments that he will be protected from public and media interest in the case.

Assange's first appearance at Westminster Magistrates' court today will be primarily concerned with formalities, including establishing his identity and determining whether he consents to the extradition.

The court will then adjourn for a full extradition hearing, which has to be within 21 days. A key issue will be whether Assange is released on bail during that period. His lawyers are reported to be putting together a generous bail package, including a security of at least £100,000 and a surety – where third parties guarantee to pay the court if he absconds.


Experts say a large bail amount is likely to secure bail, although the crime for which Assange is wanted by Sweden is rape, a serious offence for which bail is often harder to secure.

If extradited to Sweden under the EAW – a process which could be concluded quickly under the fast-track procedure – Assange will be vulnerable to other extradition requests from countries including the US.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/201 ... ve-updates

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
User avatar
vanlose kid
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby swindled69 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:14 am

I got $100 bucks on a plane crash......
User avatar
swindled69
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:04 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:19 am

82_28 wrote:I don't know why anyone would think it to be completely out of the realm of possibility this is all a crock of shit.


Speaking for my self: I don't think it "completely out of the realm of possibility." It just doesn't fit the evidence. Don't you wonder about a methodology for divining truth that starts with,

How would you write a crazy good psy-op, espionage, international intrigue, sexy, perhaps even a little dystopian/totalitarian society sci-fi thrown in, thriller? I bet it would come out a hell of a lot looking like this.


So what?

How can you simultaneously let out a barrage of artillery murdering people, film and tape the whole fucking thing, keep it, allow it to be reproduced/copied whatever by some rogue whistleblower and then apply that "sneakiness" to the whole fact that it got out at all, when all along, as proud Ford driving Americans, we know it is going on?


You can't. Who is the "you" in your question? Who is the "you" committing each of these acts?

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:45 pm

Here's What The Big WikiLeaks Bank Data Dump Means For Markets
Stone Street Advisors | Nov. 30, 2010, 1:34 PM | 3,713 | 30

I'm going to mostly ignore the bulk of the political/military/etc data dump from WikiLeaks this week and instead focus on what Julian Assange claims is their next leak, oodles of information about one of the big U.S. banks that will paint the firm in a less-than-ideal color. Regardless of which form (if any) of efficient-markets you believe, now that Wikilinks is starting to attack (which I believe is the proper word) the private sector, we are almost certain to see tremendous ripples throughout the capital markets the likes of which we haven't seen since the Financial Crisis first hit.

Assange says the following, about how Wikileaks is going to affect business (emphasis mine):

WikiLeaks means it’s easier to run a good business and harder to run a bad business, and all CEOs should be encouraged by this. I think about the case in China where milk powder companies started cutting the protein in milk powder with plastics. That happened at a number of separate manufacturers.

Let’s say you want to run a good company. It’s nice to have an ethical workplace. Your employees are much less likely to screw you over if they’re not screwing other people over.


So is Assange saying that he and his organization (or whatever) will be the sole arbiters of what constitutes a "good company?" Also, while generally it may be true that well-treated (however we or WL wants to define that aside) employees, valued employees, one's that are not expected to do morally/ethically/professionally questionable things are less likely to turn on their employer, in any organization there will inevitably be at least one or two (or more) disgruntled employees with an axe to grind. At one of my former employers (a large U.S. bank), I knew enough about how screwed up certain things were that I'm fairly certain many people would be quite interested to hear about them.

I liked getting a paycheck, and want(ed) to continue to get them in the future in the industry, so, like many others, I have largely avoided communicating any of this information to the outside world. Additionally, I understood that while I felt compelled to serve shareholders, I was subject to a similar allegience to my friends and co-workers within the company whose well-being would no-doubt be adversely affected were I to release internal information to the outside.

I am no hero, no pillar of moral strength, no causehead or idealogue; I'm just pointing out that unfortunately, for every employee unwilling to leak potentially damaging internal documents/information, there's likely at least one that is or who doesn't understand the full consequences of so doing.

Thus, just as I fear the SEC's proposed "whistleblower penalty" may introduce adverse or perverse incentives into organizations, I'm confident that we are not far from the day where we see an employee (or several) come to severely regret his/her decision to provide information to Wikileaks.

I've already noticed many investigative journalists (and many MSM outlets) seem to think the more information they can get their hands onto, the better (and understandably so, as it'd likely bolster their reputations/careers in the short-term), but as I will further explain later, these journalists and "free information" types should be wary of too much of a good thing...

Assange continues:

Then one company starts cutting their milk powder with melamine, and becomes more profitable. You can follow suit, or slowly go bankrupt and the one that’s cutting its milk powder will take you over. That’s the worst of all possible outcomes.

The other possibility is that the first one to cut its milk powder is exposed. Then you don’t have to cut your milk powder. There’s a threat of regulation that produces self-regulation.

It just means that it’s easier for honest CEOs to run an honest business, if the dishonest businesses are more effected negatively by leaks than honest businesses. That’s the whole idea. In the struggle between open and honest companies and dishonest and closed companies, we’re creating a tremendous reputational tax on the unethical companies.


If only things were so simple back here in the real world...

This reminds me of Citigroup's Chuck Prince when in 2007 he commented something to the effect of "...as long as the music keeps playing we have to keep dancing," meaning that were Citi to stop the risky lending/trading practices that largely caused the Financial Crisis, shareholders would have his head on a stake, that is, the stock price would crash as Citi's financial performance lagged behind that of its competitors.

(On a quick tangent, I am absolutely not defending Prince's behavior; it would have taken enormous fortitude to - as such a large, high-profile firm - be the leader in curtailing risky practices, but I maintain that while his tenure at Citi would likely have been cut even shorter, History would have at least remembered him as the man who had the cajones or what-have-you to do the right thing...)

The point is that it seems Assange is living in a dream world, one vastly different from the one in which most of us live, where decisions are black & white, where incentives clearly push us to make "the right" decisions time and time again, or if not, he, our savior, is here to make sure our incentives are properly aligned.
Be wary of an ex-hacker who claims to be able to fix all the world's ills with a few clicks of the mouse...

More Assange:

No one wants to have their own things leaked. It pains us when we have internal leaks. But across any given industry, it is both good for the whole industry to have those leaks and it’s especially good for the good players.


Upon what research does Assange base such a claim? Even the most idealistic, ivory-tower-inhabiting economics professors most-often shy away from making such broad, general statements. Surely, more transparency is generally preferable over opacity (we'd rather have exchange traded derivatives than a gordian knot of private otc contracts, for example), but as with most things, there are exceptions and boundaries - both practical and legal - to absolute transparency. We call these things trade secrets, intellectual property, and the ability to conduct business without fear of fantastic unexpected and grossly unpredictable events (the release of IP or internal procedures/strategy, for example).

Wikileaks and Assange represent a new, unilaterally-acting force the likes of which businesses and governments must now contend. The problem with them is that Assange, via WL, is now playing God, or at least trying to; in his mind, he and his organization have the right, nay, the duty, to act as judge, jury, and executioner. In his mind, they have the duty to expose the day-to-day activities of low and mid-level employees who were simply going about doing their daily duties.

We're not talking about Nazi SS Officers who, when on trial for war crimes, claimed to simply have been following orders; we're talking more often than not about normal people trying to hang-onto/climb the corporate or government ladder, not people immediately responsible for mass murder. No doubt we may very well see evidence that some very high-ranking individuals have said/done some things they'll come to regret, but as far as I can tell, and as far as I can predict, the bulk of the information will not implicate such influential folk.

As I tweeted earlier, I'm certain that Assange (and WL) are nowhere even remotely close to being unbiased; quite the contrary, I'm confident they have a mission, a set of goals, an endgame towards which they're working. What this endgame is, however, is up for debate. My best guess though is that this will end poorly, not only for Assange, but for many otherwise (mostly-)innocent people. Assange may think he now has the opportunity to re-order the World and the dynamics that govern it, and while there may be some inkling of truth in that, I doubt he realizes (or is capable of so doing) that the effects of Wikileaks will spread further, faster, and deeper than even he could have ever predicted.

I'm of a semi-firm belief that while clearly sub-optimal, our current form of democracy (and capitalism) is better than any other options out there, as I believe Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government, besides all the others." Assange likely does not agree, not in the slightest As much as I hate to perpetuate stereotypes, given his background in the liberal hacker underground of the 80's and 90's, I somewhat expect he's of the mentality that the world can quite easily function in a "free information" mode, which in order to usher-in, Assange will, intentionally or not, bring the world as we know it into anarchy and chaos.

I hope I'm way off base here, that Assange realizes the power he holds and ceases to abuse/misuse it, and that others with similar aspirations/ideals do the same. As I am with my investments, I'm hoping for the best, and preparing for the worst, that is, I'm guardedly optimistic this phenomenon will be more about hype than action.

I'll leave you with one final thought, one that my parents repeated ad nauseum to me during my more formative years, one which I hope Assange considers as well:

Be careful what you wish for...

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-wh ... ts-2010-11


*

the money is scared...

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
User avatar
vanlose kid
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby barracuda » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:52 pm

Assange has been refused bail and remanded into custody til at least the 14th of December.

swindled69 wrote:I got $100 bucks on a plane crash......


Even if you won that bet, there are folks here who would demand that it's all just part of the psyop.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:05 pm

vanlose kid wrote:hey, stop making sense, ahab.


Ach, c'mon. What's wrong with making sense every now and then? I don't do it often, and it never lasts long, so show a bit of tolerance!

82_28, I don't think I've ever seen anybody here claiming that anything is "outwith the bounds of possibility." Outwith the bounds of likelihood, or stretching the concept of plausibility, yes. But anything's possible. The current story, and the way it's playing out, does seem very neat and almost pre-packaged in some ways, but sometimes that's the way real life goes.

Y'know, these latest leaks actually have caused some damage, though. They've damaged my high opinion of Cryptome, and of John Young. What the hell is he playing at over there? Fair enough, he is helping to mirror Wikileaks itself, and promoting the leaked documents - while also publishing a number of totally unattributed, unsourced, editorial pieces which slander Assange without basis. For instance, wtf is this?: http://cryptome.org/0003/wikileaks-dadt.htm

If the sexual activity was in part anal in which condom breakage is common, condom failure would have terrified the other parties suddenly confronted with the threat of bi-sexual misogyny characterized by female seduction as prelude to conflicted male homophilic aggression -- residue of witnessed father-and-mother coupling parental incest desire...

...He suffers an emotional and intellectual messianism for which he believes there is no antidote. He does not expect to be punished for infecting with promises of glory and love as done with Bradley Manning and others yet untracked. If he is also spreading a fatal disease such as HIV he is intentionally sacrificing victims as his last god-like action so common in narcissists.


That's not what Cryptome's supposed to be about, is it? Baseless conjecture from anonymous grudge-bearers, asking such illuminating questions as "Does Assange have HIV?" and "Why does he rape so much?" and "Is he a total tosser, or just an areshole?" Actually, it just occurred to me - was this written by one of his current accusers, or by that Jonathan Lee Riches guy who was sueing him from a federal mental institute for allegedly publishing pictures showing him at Abu Ghraib (where he'd never been)?

Assange is suspected of being bi-sexually promiscuous and not attentive to partners after brief or extended relationships, often concurrently multiple as in the Swedish instance, in which he insists on being a dominant controller and insensitive to the after-needs of his companions.

More generally, defiance toward him leads to immediate breakoff of relationships, with dissidents blamed and denigrated.


It does have the ring of Anna Ardin to it, actually. Maybe Cryptome is just preserving stuff from her deleted blog, in which case, I'm an idiot.

That's him in custody now, eh? Let's see where it goes from here.
"The universe is 40 billion light years across and every inch of it would kill you if you went there. That is the position of the universe with regard to human life."
User avatar
AhabsOtherLeg
 
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:43 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:13 pm

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... index.html

Glenn Greenwald wrote:
SNIP (From Dec 6, 2010 12:07 ET, "The lawless Wild West attacks WikiLeaks")

...

UPDATE: Just to underscore the climate of lawless initmidation that has been created: before WikiLeaks was on many people's radars (i.e., before the Apache video release), I wrote about the war being waged on them by the Pentagon, interviewed Assange, and urged people to donate money to them. In response, numerous people asked -- both in comments and via email -- whether they would be in danger, could incur legal liability for providing material support to Terrorism or some other crime, if they donated to WikiLeaks. Those were American citizens expressing that fear over an organization which had never been remotely charged with any wrongdoing.

Similarly, I met several weeks ago with an individual who once worked closely with WikiLeaks, but since stopped because he feared that his country -- which has a very broad extradition treaty with the U.S. -- would arrest him and turn him over to the Americans upon request. He knew he had violated no laws, but given that he's a foreigner, he feared -- justifiably -- that he could easily be held by the United States without charges, denied all sorts of basic rights under the Patriot Act, and otherwise be subject to a system of "justice" which recognizes few limits or liberties, especially when dealing with foreigners accused of aiding Terrorists.

All the oppressive, lawless policies of the last decade -- lawless detention, Guantanamo, disappearing people to CIA black sites, rendition, the torture regime, denial of habeas corpus, drones, assassinations, private mercenary forces, etc. -- were designed, first and foremost, to instill exactly this fear, to deter any challenge. Many of these policies continue, and that climate of fear thus endures (see this comment from today as but one of many examples). As the treatment just thus far of WikiLeaks and Assange demonstrates, that reaction -- though paralyzing and counter-productive -- is not irrational. And one thing is for sure: there is nothing the U.S. Government could do -- no matter how lawless or heinous -- which (with rare exception) would provoke the objections of the American establishment media.


.

Right now a debate based on our feelings (or a priori conclusions) about the true nature of Assange is mostly baseless, but more importantly: irrelevant to the larger struggle engaged by the Wikileaks affair.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:25 pm

JackRiddler wrote:Right now a debate based on our feelings (or a priori conclusions) about the true nature of Assange is mostly baseless, but more importantly: irrelevant to the larger struggle engaged by the Wikileaks affair.


That's not going to stop anyone debating it, though. It never has before. But I agree, and that seems like a good and accurate article from the snippet. There are FAR bigger problems to deal with than Assange, or even Wikileaks itself. I am very much liking Greenwald.
"The universe is 40 billion light years across and every inch of it would kill you if you went there. That is the position of the universe with regard to human life."
User avatar
AhabsOtherLeg
 
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:43 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DrEvil and 173 guests