"Big Bamboozle" 9/11 Truth Author And Family Found Dead

[FourthBase]

Hey 4thbase, this is the Internet which has sites, forums, threads and comments all across the world on all kinds of topics. It's pretty hard to be a coward by not choosing the right thread to comment on. And dood, don't do the big "Fuck You". You will get banned and also don't make an ass of yourself. No need for that, no need at all. I would hate to see you have to go.

Overall, I don't see the source of your anger and I've looked to see where it could be coming from. Chill, homie.

Here's the source of anger. Marshall may have been a hero, an intrepid researcher who may have been horrifically murdered along with his two children and dog, in order to not only silence him but spoil his reputation forever. If that were the case, then nearly the only people in the world, the only place in the world, where his research and reputation would not be subject to automatic dismissal and ruination, would be us, here. Imagine his ghost, despairing in the afterlife over such a circumstance, that he and his family were slaughtered and moreover that no one will now ever consider his research seriously, that the Sick Fucks of the Earth utterly got their way, that everything is hopeless. Ah, but, look! There, on the internet, a sanctuary for unspeakably grotesque scenario-izing, a place where the truth may yet be detected by scent if not confirmed by hard evidence, where smart and good people of independent political sensibilities pursue the truth intuitively, with rigor. There may be hope yet! And that is in fact the process that unfolded in this thread, intuitive reasoning, an openness to multiple possibilities, a recognition that all may not be what it seems, a chance for the most grotesque and unthinkable scenarios to be conceived and weighed and re-weighed. There is skepticism, to be sure. There must be. It has been well-reasoned, too. Respectful. And then, 11 days after the thread had gone dormant, still unfinished in its pursuit, one of the skeptics pipes in on a separate thread, and casually says to this possible tragic hero: "Fuck you." With friends like that, who needs enemies? It's within the terms of service to off-handedly say "fuck that guy" in that context? What if Sibel Edmonds is found dead tomorrow, after having allegedly committed suicide by driving a car full of child relatives over a bridge? Imagine the same long thread, the same process. And then, a week and a half after that thread goes dormant, someone mentions Edmonds, and then someone pipes up, "No, fuck Sibel Edmonds." How would that go over? Let's not find out, god forbid. Point is, my anger is justified. You should be angry, too. The Barricade should be ashamed, and angry at himself. I regret nothing. If I can be banned for that wholly-deserved contempt and wholly-appropriate expression of such, so be it. This board would have made a terrible mistake, in that case. Just know that.

[barracuda]

My third post on the second page of this thread:

...it's always fucked up when these assholes feel like they have to take out their families when they decide to go off.

Subsequent discussion hasn't brought me to a different understanding of this case, with the exception of a tad more empathy for the sheer sadness of it all. And it hasn't been for lack of reading all the available information and viewpoints. I haven't changed my position at all. That's not cowardice. It's just a different opinion than yours, god forbid.

[FourthBase]

My third post on the second page of this thread:

...it's always fucked up when these assholes feel like they have to take out their families when they decide to go off.

Subsequent discussion hasn't brought me to a different understanding of this case, with the exception of a tad more empathy for the sadness of it all. And it hasn't been for lack of reading all the available information and viewpoints. I haven't changed my position at all. That's not cowardice. It's just a different opinion than yours, god forbid.

Mmm-hmm. No shame, huh?

[barracuda]

None is called for.

I mean, really: fuck Philip Marshall for muling cocaine around the country for Oliver North in the first place, whatever else he did. That act alone caused the deaths and destruction of thousands.

[FourthBase]

None is called for.

I mean, really: fuck Philip Marshall for muling cocaine around the country for Oliver North in the first place, whatever else he did. That act alone caused the deaths and destruction of thousands.

Your questionably-relevant backward-looking re-contextualizing goalpost-moving indicates at least a subconscious recognition that you ought to be ashamed. That's progress, I guess. Good for you. Sleep well.

[barracuda]

I'm happy you've found a silver lining for yourself. Thanks for the scintillating conversation.

[coffin_dodger]

@FB - arguing with an individual that cannot be proven wrong and always has to have the last word is an absolute waste of time.

More than that, you are actually feeding that individuals pleasure of showing everyone else just how clever they are, in putting you in your place. These self-indulgent, intellectually superior individuals tend to frequent discussion boards where ideas are discussed - (you won't find them on forums about practical matters i.e. fixing automobiles - because they open themselves to humiliation if their 'knowledge' can be proven as bullshit by other members) - however, it eventually becomes apparant (if you care to look) that they are following a very defined narrative - to belittle those who they consider inferior to their intellect and make themselves look giants amongst the impressionable. They also tend to stick to what is safe - facts, figures and the opinions of the general consensus.
You seem like a genuine guy to me - keep rockin', man, but take it from me, your anger is their fun.

[DrVolin]

It might be good to return to civility. It isn't too late.

[FourthBase]

Thanks for the advice, coffin_dodger. But I'm growing confident that, instead of putting me in any place, the Barricade has only put himself in a place. And it is not a place where he is seen to be clever -- and certainly not seen to be intellectually-superior, not even in quotes. He knows deep down (but not too deep, lol) who the intellectual superior is. That's probably what drives him, that feeling of relative inadequacy. You're right, the inherent subjectivity of conversations here affords him a role he would not enjoy in another more objective forum. But even here, it is possible to discern who is the bona fide intellect, of which there are many, and who is not, of which there are few. He must think he appears to be the former, but the genuine articles can tell otherwise. It's like when a rank amateur baller insinuates himself into a pickup game out of his league, but still carries on like he's hot shit. He may be tolerated, even passed the ball and expected to do something with it. But if he screws up, haphazardly elbows a teammate in the mouth, steps on toes, bricks layups, and still puffs himself up like a big dawg, then the other players, his fed-up betters, may start trash-talking him and trying to dunk on him with relish. For their own enjoyment, for the sake of the game itself, and as a lesson for others. Not to necessarily wise him up, although that'd be a nice perk. Unlikely, but nice. See, I know he's no giant, you know he's no giant, a lot of people can see he's no giant. Even he knows he's no giant. But it is still useful and necessary to point it out. And fun, for me. Hopefully for others, too. Is reading this fun for him? Meh, I would hope not. That would be sad. What he should be feeling is a sinking recognition of shame, in being so unjustifiably cocky and being called out on it in this way. His testicles should be shrinking up inside himself more and more as he reads...each...word. But hey, there's always the chance in being thoroughly humbled to grow, mature, change, apologize, redeem oneself. I know from experience. Good luck, Barricade.

[FourthBase]

That civil enough? Was it civil when he said "fuck Philip Marshall"?
Would it be civil to say "fuck Sibel Edmonds" in the hypothetical I described?
What if Marshall had been a member here? Would that be civil? Was he? Do you know?
When is it okay to retaliate against an instigator who hugs the limits of incivility?
If ever, then how shall we retaliate? If never, then he just gets away with it?

[DrVolin]

That was very civil. And note that I did not address my remark to anyone in particular. It would be unfortunate if such an interesting dicussion was derailed by any of the participants, including Barracuda. As for retaliation, it gains in strength what it loses in anger.

[barracuda]

(you won't find them on forums about practical matters i.e. fixing automobiles - because they open themselves to humiliation if their 'knowledge' can be proven as bullshit by other members)

You'd be wrong about that. I'm a life long student. What I don't care for is being told what I have to think by people who don't know any more than I do. But now that my testicles have been painstakingly examined by my intellectual superiors (a little to the left next time, thanks) perhaps we can return to the topic.

I can forgive Marshall his crimes against humanity, but I won't valorize him without better evidence than I've seen.

[FourthBase]

...perhaps we can return to the topic.

+1

[8bitagent]

If there was no foul play, then I feel Barracuda is more than valid in his feelings. I certainly understand. None of it makes sense in retrospect.

I mean this wasn't some guy with yet another CD powerpoint we've heard ad nauseum. It was strange as right when para-political circles started giving him a noticeable platform this happened.
Ive seen no evidence to suggest it was foul play, tho I wont say its impossible. Foul play can be subtle.

[barracuda]

8bit, I've carried your comments on Marshall from the other thread to this one to avoid any misconceptions regarding my motivations.

2. Remember my first post in the Philip Marshall thread? I said I had no reason to suspect their was foul play in the murder-suicide. It makes me very angry and sad that any person could do such an evil thing,
so yes it unfortunately sours me on his research even tho i feel its extremely solid work.

Generally speaking, it makes sense to separate the output of an artist or writer from their biography and assess the work on its merits. If you find value in Marshall's research, take it for what it's worth, especially considering that we don't even yet have closure on the investigation into his death. You don't have to condemn or glorify him in order to use his data points.

For instance, I'd consider Marshall's insistence that the hijackers could have flown the planes themselves, by hand, and matched the flight data recordings released by the NTSB to be an important data point in discussions of remote control theories. HIs expertise in the control of the exact planes used in the attack lends weight to his conclusions, and allows him to proceed from that baseline to an examination of just where, exactly, and from whom did the hijackers receive training adequate to this task. Which led him to Pinal Airpark, previously identified by Jeremy Scahill as an intelligence air hub. The theory pointing to Pinal as the flight training base for the 911 pilots is probably the most important tidbit in The Big Bamboozle, especially wrt the connection to Blackwater.



Nice boneyard there.

Marshall's research connecting the Saudi financiers of Iran-Contra to the 911 attacks is the closest thing I've seen to a mea culpa for his own involvement in an operation he recognized as extremely shady. Nevertheless, his personal excitement at relaying this aspect of his own history is disappointingly palpable.

The rest of his research on the Sauds should be immediately recognizable to you: Omar al-Bayoumi, Osama Bassan, Bandar bin Sultan, Turki bin Faisal. You already knew this stuff. Anyone who was paying attention knew the Saudis were heavily involved in the operation very early on. The hijackers were Saudis. Bob Graham's inquiry is used extensively as a source in the book.

Marshall may have been a hero, an intrepid researcher who may have been horrifically murdered along with his two children and dog, in order to not only silence him but spoil his reputation forever. If that were the case, then nearly the only people in the world, the only place in the world, where his research and reputation would not be subject to automatic dismissal and ruination, would be us, here.

My responses here yesterday were written on a phone while riding a train, and so by necessity, somewhat thin. I hope you'll forgive me for seeking to flesh them out now.

Anywhere research of 911 as a conspiracy is taken seriously, Marshall's death is being discussed. A cursory search of the web demonstrates the predominance of black op theories surrounding the killings. Google search for "Philip Marshall murder", first page results:

CIA Killed Phillip Marshall for Leaking 9/11 Secrets: Dr. Kevin Barrett ...
http://www.infowars.com/cia-killed-phil ... cret...Mar 5, 2013 – Philip Marshall was killed in a black operation over confessing to having worked with CIA drug smugglers and the potential exposure of 9/11 ...

Philip Marshall 'Murder-Suicide' – A Lack of Evidence
21stcenturywire.com/.../philip-marshall-murder-suicide-a-lack-of-evi...Feb 28, 2013 – Many news reports have been quick to echo what the Calaveras County Sheriffs Department has claimed; Philip Marshall killed his two ...

Was It Murder? Philip Marshall, Author of `Big Bamboozle,' Dead
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/book.. ... er.htmlMar 15, 2013 – March 9—In February 2012, Philip Marshall, a veteran airline pilot, published The Big Bamboozle: 9/11 and the War on Terror, which ...

“100% Certain”: 9/11 Author Was Killed in Black Ops Hit | Veterans ...
http://www.veteranstoday.com/.../100-ce ... -bla...Feb 20, 2013 – *Philip Marshall, who had expressed his fear of being harassed or ... all of Marshall's neighbors believe it was a professional murder, not the ...

9/11 and Philip Marshall Murder-Suicide Questions - Before It's News
beforeitsnews.com/.../911-and-philip-marshall-murder-suicide-questi...Feb 20, 2013 – 21st Century Wire says… No one can report they heard shots or screams from the Marshall house, nestled in the quiet small picturesque town ...

Michael Moore politicizes Phil Marshall Death - YouTube
► 3:42► 3:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHtKpkL4rQ
Feb 22, 2013 - Uploaded by danp5648

Two teens killed by father in apparent murder-suicide, officials say ...
More videos for philip marshall murder »

9/11 Conspiracy Author Phillip Marshall & His 2 Kids Found Dead in ...
dcxposed.com/.../911-conspiracy-author-phillip-marshall-m...

by Ed Brown - in 41 Google+ circles - More by Ed Brown
Feb 6, 2013 – Phillip Marshall, a former airplane pilot and author whose works included the 2003 novel Lakefront Airport and The Big Bamboozle: 9/11 and ...

Phillip Marshall Wrote About a Conspiracy; Was He the Victim of One?
http://www.santabarbaraview.com/phillip ... pira...Feb 12, 2013 – The official time of death in the Philip Marshall incident is wrong and the ... The guy's dead (Philip Marshall, ex-CIA, accused of murder-suicide ...

Author Philip Marshall murder conspiracy - Ok! Here is the Situation
okhereisthesituation.com/.../author-philip-marshall-murder-conspirac...Feb 26, 2013 – Author Philip Marshall murder conspiracy. Former National Security Agency officer Wayne Madsen says he is “100% certain” that 9/11 ...

Phillip Marshall, airline captain, 9/11 activist, author accused ...
letsrollforums.com › ... › The Town Cryer - Discussion, Intro's...
6 posts - 5 authors - Feb 10
Captain Phillip Marshall has been accused of killing himself, son, and daughter in California. He had no motive to kill himself or his children.

So, within the "culture" of the examination of 911 conspiracy, the notion of Marshall's assassination is the mainstream line of thought. And the people who should be most interested in Marshall's research are exactly those persons most likely to be spurred by the circumstances of his death to visit his material in earnest anew. Unfortunately, I don't see a great deal of analysis of his writings going on, especially with any eyes toward realitically appraising those writings in terms of motivations for some hypothetical assassination of himself, his children and his dog.

We don't call people heroes for what they might have done. I may not be the brightest bulb in the lamp around here, but it doesn't take intellectual superiority to see that we should take pains to separate Marshall's work (if it has any value on its own) from notions of martyrdom or heroism based upon what we know so far. Because what it becomes is a password, a stamp of approval into the club of 911 conspiracy thought. The assumption that Marshall was killed, that he can be parlayed into a Truther hero, is just the sort of thing that keeps real research from reaching a mainstream breaking point, keeps it marginalized. If you need to praise Marshall, praise his research for what it is. Once you bring his biography into it, then you have to deal not just with Mena and gun running for Ollie North, but also the as yet unprovable speculation regarding a black ops hit.

I don't know about you, but I've had it with reaching the point in examining an event like this at which any information that comes out from institutional channels like the coroner or the sheriff's investigation is automatically disinformation to cover the trail of an operation. It's confirmation bias at best, and at worst an end to finding out what may have happened. It's already occurred in the Newtown killing, and probably here as well. No matter what the findings of the official investigation are, they'll only have merit in as much as they verify Marshall's innocence. No matter what the wife eventually says, same thing.

On the other hand, if his research has merit, it'll stand no matter if he's guilty or not.

These self-indulgent, intellectually superior individuals ... tend to stick to what is safe - facts, figures and the opinions of the general consensus.

It's always nice to hear facts being disparaged. They really are pesky and irritating when you're trying to make a point. Strangely enough, they're precisely what you look for on an automotive or bicycle repair forum. Or in 911 research, for that matter.

But as far as I can tell by a google search (and an additional look at this thread), the general consensus is that Marshall was killed in a black op hit. The vast, vast majority of returns regarding his name and the name of his book are of this opinion. So who's really toeing the line here?

One thing I know, nobody calls you a gatekeeper when you agree with them. That's the safe position around these parts. Keep that in mind, all you impressionable youngsters out there.