‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Novem5er » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:44 pm

MacCruiskeen » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:28 pm wrote:These were not your average braindead TV-addicted beer-vomiting fart-lighting American yahoos, November. These were a small select elite of high-flying physics students with a rare opportunity and a lot to lose.


You get onto people all the time for assuming things, but here you are assuming a helluva lot. A) you're assuming that only low-brained American yahoos with cheese-making degrees engage in risky behavior (not true); and B) that high-flying physics students are any less likely to engage in risky pranks of their own.

Yes, they have a lot to lose, but so do most people who drink in drive, commit date-rape, steal the opposing team's mascot, or put their dick in a dead pig's mouth. College kids can be very stupid (criminally so in many cases). I'll add that "nerdy" kids might be more likely to engage in "nerdy" behavior, like internet trolling, too.

As it turns out, isn't their lack of fear justified? Nobody has been publicly kicked out of CERN, as far as we know. Maybe admin found them and wagged their finger at them, as happens again and again within institutions who want behavior to stop, but don't want to make a big deal about it.

And right, if they were students. We don't know, and I am only assuming. If these were 50 year old scientists, it would surprise the Shiva out of me, and make their motivation more suspect. I'm open to the possibility!

Just a note, though: my posts express my opinion, but they are jovial in nature and are not meant to shut anyone down. Let's keep this party going. Pass the beer and the cloaks.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:47 pm

I'm sor not sorry to have to break this to you, November, but not everyone is like you. That's a tragedy for the planet, I know, but the planet is just going to have to be brave and live with it, somehow.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby semper occultus » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:50 pm

.....if you perform a "fake" ritual but ensure it is disseminated out to a sufficiently large number of people such that there is implanted consciouly and / or subconsciously the idea of a sacrifice being performed does this generate any worthwhile magickal ripples in the ether...?

( ......ambiguity - enough to generate sufficient doubt in sufficient numbers, illusion, tricksterism and the knowing nod-and-wink is all meant to be part of the fun isn't it - ( forgive the shamless rip off of Hoffman ) )
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby brekin » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:54 pm

MacCruiskeen » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:47 pm wrote:I'm sor not sorry to have to break this to you, November, but not everyone is like you. That's a tragedy for the planet, I know, but the planet is just going to have to live with it, somehow.


True, but he and I are close enough on this topic where I choose him as my champion to carry the banner of logic as I recuse myself from this thread.

So long, good night, good knight.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Novem5er » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:03 pm

MacCruiskeen » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:47 pm wrote:I'm sor not sorry to have to break this to you, November, but not everyone is like you. That's a tragedy for the planet, I know, but the planet is just going to have to be brave and live with it, somehow.


I'm not even sure what that means. Surely, you don't think I'm projecting MY risk-taking behavior onto these amateur occultists? I've certainly taken some risks in my youth, but more than that, I know dozens of people who have and also see the news all the time where college athletes with pro-careers on the line do the stupidest things. I've seen frat houses suspended for crimes (members of which were in finance, law, or political degrees). I live in Florida, home to college spring-breakers who come from all over the world to imbibe in drunken beach orgies, heedless of the cell phone cameras and social media networks documenting everything.

My opinion on this matter is informed by my experience in dealing with a lot of young people. Of course I can be wrong about it, but its an opinion formed by experience (not necessarily personal).

brekin » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:54 pm wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:47 pm wrote:I'm sor not sorry to have to break this to you, November, but not everyone is like you. That's a tragedy for the planet, I know, but the planet is just going to have to live with it, somehow.


True, but he and I are close enough on this topic where I choose him as my champion to carry the banner of logic as I recuse myself from this thread.

So long, good night, good knight.


:thumbsup
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Novem5er » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:36 pm

Here's a short list of innocent pranks done by students at prestigious universities. They aren't exactly a mock sacrifice, but to secular students I don't think it has the deep-enough connotation to make it forbidden. Even now on the Internet, the only people discussing this are religious fundamentalist and conspiracy theorists; both groups that the science community could care less about. Here are three pranks that certainly could get some students in trouble.

The Great Cornell Pumpkin

Image
October 2007 marks the 10th anniversary of one of the grandest pranks ever perpetrated on the Cornell campus: Somehow, some way, in the dark hours of Oct. 7 or 8 of 1997, someone managed to place a hollowed-out pumpkin atop the McGraw Tower spire.

The rest is history -- and still something of a mystery.

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2007/10/october-marks-10th-anniversary-mcgraw-tower-pumpkin-prank

The Chicago Homemade Nuclear Reactor
Each year, University of Chicago students embark on a traditional scavenger hunt. The contest features comical, strange, and even impossible to attain items. 1999's extensive list included:

-With your teammates' powers combined, summon Captain Planet. [10 points]
-A French-Canadian. [30 points]
-Fisher-Price Baby's First Flamethrower. [122 points]
-Two cups of chocolate chips with at least a half cup of ketchup--to be consumed ensemble. [25 points]
-5 MENSA membership cards. [40 points]
-A breeder reactor built in a shed, and the boy scout badge to prove credit was given where boy scout credit was due. [500 points]

You can see where this is going. Jenna Beck from Hypercube describes what happened after the contest got underway:

"Sure enough, physics majors Justin Kasper and Fred Niell built a plutonium-producing reactor in a single day using scrap aluminum and carbon sheets. To get the radioactive element, the pair collected Thorium powder from the inside of vacuum tubes, which the reactor turned into trace amounts of weapons-grade uranium. An alarmed nuclear physicist verified the device’s authenticity, and the team came in second place."

http://www.realclearscience.com/lists/best_science_pranks/homemade_nuclear_reactor.html?state=stop

MIT Police Car on the Dome
Image
On the final day of classes in May 1994, the city of Boston awoke to see an MIT Campus Police cruiser on top of the Great Dome. The car came complete with flashing lights and a cruiser number, π.

In actuality, the police car was the shell of a Chevrolet Cavalier attached to a multi-piece wooden frame, all carefully assembled on the roof over the course of one night. Perhaps as a nod to the very limited parking around campus, the car had been issued a parking violation reading "no permit for this location."

The police car hack received television and newspaper coverage around the world, as far away as Korea and Israel.


http://wiki.mitadmissions.org/Hacks#Police_car_on_the_Dome

Frat Boys Put Dead Horse in Deans Office


Jameis Winston of FSU Shoplifts Crab Legs - Is Suspended by Team
Image
Because EVERYTHING is filmed these days, we now have footage of Florida State quarterback/pitcher Jameis Winston stealing crab legs at a supermarket.

The Heisman Trophy winner was issued a citation on April 29 after walking out of a Publix with $30 worth of the tasty shellfish.

As a result, Winston was suspended from the baseball team and had to do community service.

As you'll see in the video unearthed by TMZ, Winston was extremely cool, calm and collected as he exited the store with the seafood.

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/jameis-winston-stealing-crab-legs-video-051514
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:15 pm

That Cornell Pumpkin on the Spire lasted an entire winter up there, from November to March.
And it was a pretty big pumpkin, they blocked off the sidewalks in fear it would fall on someone's noggin.
A local radio station made a contest of it- to identify it- because most people thought it was a fake pumpkin or ball of some sort.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby backtoiam » Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:50 pm

I was once the President of a college fraternity. It never ceased to amaze me what the group would do.

One day I came home and my house was full of chickens that had been stolen by the fraternity pledges and placed in my house. They shit all over the place before I caught them. I made the pledges pay for that. I made all those pledges pick a chicken and name it and act as if it was their girl friend. I made them kiss those chickens on the lips allllll night and tell their chicken that they loved their chicken.

(no chickens were harmed, and all were returned safely to their original home)

One night the pledges stole my car and took it from me. They placed my car in the middle of the college campus where they knew I had class the next morning. The college administration let it slide and laughed it off.

One night they stole a bunch of chicken from the college cafeteria.

That shit just never ended. It was nonstop and the college dean of students just let us do it and laughed it off as long as property was not too badly damaged or nobody got seriously hurt.

One night we turned a sack of harmless water snakes loose in the girls dorm and evacuated the whole dorm.

Kids will be kids. This CERN deal makes me laugh because it is mild compared to what I have seen. :sun:
"A mind stretched by a new idea can never return to it's original dimensions." Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby OP ED » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:04 pm

Sorry this has turned into a busy week for me, and I have had trouble catching up.

Commenting on various conversational loose ends and odds and etcs.



Re: guru re: "slippery slope" argument for human sacrifice and/or animal sacrifices as gateway drug:

(Slippery slopes often invoke indirectly a form of moral absolutism or at least an hierarchical series of real world consequences, many of these invalid in many circumstances, but I am going to ignore meta-ethics for the time being in order to preserve conciseness unless we feel it necessary to press the point)

The quote function is quite annoying to attempt on my mobile, so I will be doing my best to discuss most of this from memory, apologies for omissions or imprecision.

I'm not certain I can assume any particular practitioners of ritual animal sacrifice would automatically assume human death as being the next logical step. It seems rarely entertained as a notion except with regard to minority religions, but this is an assumption. I could point out that very similar arguments could be made with regard to Jesus, whose last recorded public act as a free human is participating in, officiating even an animal sacrifice. It is very rare for someone (modern/western) to assume that his followers immediately jumped to human murder, despite the implied cannibalism in their rituals coupled with their stated belief that consumption of the godking's flesh granted literal immortality.

The gateway nature of the assumption is silly on its face, at least as applied universally to all of a certain "type" of group. (I.e. Groups that you aren't a member of)

As I mentioned earlier, animals are slaughtered in horrible industrialized fashion every second of every day and blithely consumed by moderns, divorced from the reality of violence inherent in a predatory diet. The vast majority of people who kill these animals for the majority of us, including those who do so for their own pleasure (sport) don't go on to hunt and kill humans.

There is also no universal rule that implies that the slope could be travelled in the other direction. I.e. That love of animals can foster love of humans or that disregard for human life is necessarily related to disregard for animal life in any statistically relevant much less predictive fashion. That is, Gandhi and Einstein were vegetarians and anti-hunting, but so were Hitler and Himmler, for ostensibly the same reasons. (Hitler was said to avoid even filmed depictions of violence to animals, Himmler attempted to outlaw hunting in its entirety)

(Although the OTO was purged by the Nazis, it wasn't for animal or human sacrifice)

W.r.t. The "secrets" of the OTO: I don't think that they have any secrets about ritual crimes, and I think that is a silly baiting of a question. For the record, they appear to be almost impoverished. Which implies that if there was ever any serious interest in them by powerful agencies, it has lapsed, probably very long ago.

But to return to the slope, I could widely agree with your statement that I have never seen

a single shred of evidence or a convincing argument as to why someone like Crowley, or occult fraternities in general, would propagate ideas that form a solid rationale for ritual crimes but only ever be exploring these ideas in a purely intellectual capacity, never dreaming of putting them into practice in anything but the most sublime (sublimated) of metaphorical ways


Or at least the majority of its first half.

Of course, I am not completely sure that I have ever seriously spent time looking for evidence that something DIDN'T happen. The very idea is a stranger to my sensibilities. That isn't at all how investigation of anything usually happens. Its witchunters' logic applied to history, representing much sloppiness in rationale. Given the broadness of that statement, so vast as to include large swaths of humanity, including many diverse groups whose memberships number into the millions and of whom I am one, I find it intellectually offensive. If you'd just said the same about jews instead of wizards, you'd have been banned and the post would have been deleted before I had a chance to take offense.

That said, and not necessarily in best good faith, I will nonetheless give an answer to your preposterously silly and bigoted assertion:

Its considered somewhat established fact in Thelemic and post-Thelemic circles that the OTO and its headmaster were maybe kind of sex-obsessed. Perhaps a reaction to the suppression and sublimated sexual violence of their era. The point being that ritual sacrifice is not the only aspect of western hermeticism that they considered coded sex. In fact, if you read the book you've quoted, the utterly obviousness of Crowley's semi-freudian, nearly constant euphemistic approach to all the menagerie of mysticism as he knew it would be entirely unavoidable. Cups and Lances and all that, through and through. I don't see you making an argument that the OTO was seriously engaged in Alchemy, although its symbolism occupied quite a few more pages than sacrifice did in the same volume. Do you believe that Crowley believed he could turn lead into gold, or even that he actually could?
...the exact same sets of sexual coding was applied to this set of symbols as to almost every category of esoteric theory, and it would be unfair to assume everything is meant literally in one chapter but not the previous or subsequent chapters of the same book.

...


For someone who seems worried about "presumptiveness" you seem unworried about using words like "proven" and "know" quite freely. Often in the midst of vague and sweeping allegations.
Last edited by OP ED on Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:05 pm

semper occultus wrote:.....if you perform a "fake" ritual but ensure it is disseminated out to a sufficiently large number of people such that there is implanted consciouly and / or subconsciously the idea of a sacrifice being performed does this generate any worthwhile magickal ripples in the ether...?


The magickal ripples emanating from this act are so weak as to effect only the naïve, weak-willed and corrupt.
We ritually sacrifice our soldiers, our incarcerated-some innocent, our food, our time and our will so mindlessly,
that to empower this act with our attention is a betrayal to our very souls.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby OP ED » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:22 pm

Re: student pranks:

I personally still believe this to be the most likely explanation, and also one that provisionally explains CERNs lack of concern and their lack of comment on details. It fits well into the sort of culture that accumulates around young academics. At least as accords with my not ancient memories of university. It resonates with my impressions of the generation that made LARPing and trolling into actual professions rather than hobbies.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby slimmouse » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:31 pm

I really dont see the connection between the pranks above and those that went on at Cerne.

I would more closely associate this with students in a windowless temple mastubing in a crypt surrounded by skulls and bones.

Nothing to see there though right?
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby OP ED » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:52 pm

S&B don't post their ceremonies on YouTube. You were never supposed to find out about them. This seems rather to have the opposite intention.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby guruilla » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:56 pm

@OP-ED: that last post was experienced by me, rightly or wrong, as bordering on pure sophistry; so at the risk of seeming condescending, frankly I don't have the time (will) to counter what seem to me to be vacuous arguments nested with barbed accusations. (Ye olde "witch hunt" cry.)

Except for maybe two:

I could point out that very similar arguments could be made with regard to Jesus, whose last recorded public act as a free human is participating in, officiating even an animal sacrifice.

:signwhut:

Is this a reference to what they had for their last supper, or to Jesus asking his disciples to eat him?

Do you believe that Crowley believed he could turn lead into gold, or even that he actually could?

No, but unlike turning lead into gold, ritually slaughtering human beings doesn't defy what we know of the laws of physics. It doesn't defy anything besides social norms, and AC's path was openly that of transgression of all social norms. Funny how that fact keeps getting ignored.

As well as where it leads... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -home.html

But I suppose these were just more "goofs" who missed the subtlety of the Master's metaphors.... :roll:
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at CERN's Shiva Statue

Postby slimmouse » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:03 am

OP ED wrote:S&B don't post their ceremonies on YouTube. You were never supposed to find out about them. This seems rather to have the opposite intention.


Absolutely. I would posit my reply at the other end of the trivialising comparison.

FWIW's this kind of video will however serve its purpose for the next time any such real-deal event occurs ( such as bohemian Grove perhaps)

I dont have a dog in this fight anyways, so im off again lol
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