Who Was Seth Rich?

[Luther Blissett]

belated and feeble attempts to cover your ass

That was precisely my impression while reading through the earnest flow of engagement and curiosity; the brimming goodwill and desire for understanding that has suddenly dawned.

Since when doesn't American Dream express goodwill here?

[km artlu]

I respect your question Luther, but I will respond only by saying that there are 16k+ posts from which Mac and I have arrived at similar points of view.

As I wrote, "my impression". Your results may vary.

[Cordelia]

The only people who believe there is a (mainstream) "left media" in the US are Democratic sycophants and Republicans.

I don't know why the cited outlets haven't done what you believe they should, but I'm sure they have an ombudsman you could contact for a direct answer rather than asking RI to speculate.

And Gods Yes, WND is not a credible source. Doubly so when citing an unnamed individual. I thought that would go without saying here.

There are, to me, some troubling questions about the Seth Rich murder, but don'-t expect to get anything other than a smear job from a pure propaganda outlet like WND.

With all due respect, what a pointless idea. (But for anyone so inclined, here's one start w/mpdc; scroll away and if you find an appropriate person & phone number, good luck w/that.)
https://search.usa.gov/search?affiliate ... =ombudsman

The Washington Post is a credible source? We can call them too, press 0 and request, I don't know, a reporter, an editor? 1:/800-477-4679
https://gethuman.com/phone-number/Washington-Post
I bet someone will get right on it, unbiased & respected newspaper that it is not.

(Imagine, coming to RI to speculate.......)

Skip to 1.5 min. mark for Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch talk about Seth Rich their recent filings of FOIA requests. I’m sure J.W. are pros at this, but I’m not holding my breath that information will be forthcoming anytime soon or that the MPDC would ‘cooperate’ anytime ever.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw0kVpQ1Yd0

[MacCruiskeen]

Since when doesn't American Dream express goodwill here?

What a deeply weird choice of words. When doesn't Bono express goodwill? When doesn't Barack Obama? When doesn't Richard Branson or Tony Blair? Not expressing goodwill is more than their bleedin' job's worth.



You might instead and more usefully ask: When does American Dream ever answer a straight question? When does American Dream ever engage in a discussion in good faith? When does American Dream ever not insult the spirit of this board and its founder? What does American Dream actually say on the very rare occasions when he condescends to use his own voice? Why does it sound so wooden, so ersatz, so empty, so hollow, so evasive, so unpersuasive?

And since when is any leftist, anarchist or revolutionary so blandly affectless, so entirely indifferent to the actual effects of his public communications?

Anyone might think he was employed to make The Left look bad.

[American Dream]

Luther, I just noticed your other comments now and only have a moment to right but not sure I'm fully understanding your view on things. Do you think the American State is divided on the Russia question in convoluted ways? There seems to be a significant split between the populist and/or far Right and the establishment liberal/left crew on this, at minimum.

Certainly- as with Pizzagate before- having Foxy News personalities (as well as Roger Stone, WND, Paul Joseph Watson and the like) on your "side" leads towards a particular set of outcomes. Beyond that, it's hard to discern exactly why and how the forces are constellating as they are. I have no love lost for the DNC and the hierarchies they represent but I do know that attacking them provides a perfect foil for people who are generally to the right of them, so not sure how that reconciles with the skullduggery that Dems really do vs. spurious psyop claims.

So this is all a roundabout way of asking for more on how you see the Deep Politics behind and around the Trump-Clinton showdown, especially as it involves intelligence agencies, Dems, Repubs, Trump and Clinton in particular, owning class institutions in general, as well as anyone else who is particularly relevant.

My primary concern is on building a better world and a lot of my left / liberal friends are not currently rootstriking on progressive issues because they are entertained by the glowing orb or the golf cart or Putin. Even if the dual power / community organizing work does seem like a massive waste of time or resources or a spinning of the wheels given the current state of the country. Totally agree that the populace does seem to be split on Russia but I'm on team "there's something to Trump's business ties to Russia and lingering indebtedness to Russian oligarchs but the 'election' was not 'hacked'." In the end I'm most concerned about migrant families, police brutality, prison abolition, pipelines, and sea level rise, and the Russia thing ain't helping.

I don't really know about the DNC vs. psyops claims either. I'm coming at this issue from the angle that conservative and right conspiratorial media have poisoned the well regarding the murder of a left-leaning insider, and not the other way around. I probably could have gone either way on this one but it just doesn't pass the test. Just as I ignore Comet Ping Pong for its distinct lack of victims, this one stinks to me because someone died and I don't know why.

I think that the stronger power hierarchies in the country, as well as the bulk of the intelligence community, lost the public / "entertainment" wing of the political game this time around, but not the grip on the international game or the money / military prowess that they represent. When we talk about feuds being waged between different factions of the global elite, I think Trump only represents on its face a small portion of them. Is he useful to them? Extremely. I fear for the nastiness that will be spun out of this presidency by the security state, the military, and financial power.

This is how at least in my mind a (possible) direct DNC hit on Rich and resultant psyop by conservative media to get the left to ignore it easily fits into my worldview, even if that could be confirmation bias.

Yeah if the primary aim of conspiracy investigation is not building a better world, then what is it? Conspiratainment would never get it for me. These can seem like dark and discouraging times for sure, but what other choice do we have but to struggle? That is how things look to me.

As far as getting off the map of conventional politics, definitely been out of that for a long time but I ain't going for the Pizzagate/Sandy Hook school which targets innocent people who have suffered by effectively organizing a troll army against them. It's an ugly but recurring pattern.

I find it entirely credible that the Russian State would want to influence elections covertly but know this also holds true for the United States and for China, too. What actually happened, I make no definite claims for, above and beyond the verifiable evidence.

It seems entirely possible that we are entering the kind of era predicted by theorists like Negri (and maybe Deleuze), where the State as such becomes substantially different and the nation-state takes on less/different importance, as capital flows profoundly alter the conceptions of "the national interest" as it was once understood.

[mentalgongfu2]

Cordelia, when I said "ombudsman" I was referring not to the public official type, but the internal newspaper type, who is usually tasked with critiquing the paper and responding to public comments and questions. Sometimes titled as "reader representative."

I see WaPo has a web forum for this. If someone really wants to ask them why they are not responding to the WND story (or today's George Webb 'revelation'), that or the phone number you linked would be a great place to start, were one so inclined. Or we can just assume the WND piece is solid, and places like WaPo refuse to cover it solely because they are afraid of the answer and not because it is complete horseshit.

I care not two shits about Bezos' rag, but I don't think MSM failure to repeat an allegation from an unnamed restaurant manager in a WND piece constitutes evidence of anything other than good judgment.


quote]The Washington Post is a credible source? We can call them too, press 0 and request, I don't know, a reporter, an editor? 1:/800-477-4679
https://gethuman.com/phone-number/Washington-Post
I bet someone will get right on it, unbiased & respected newspaper that it is not.[/quote]

[Elvis]

As far as getting off the map of conventional politics, definitely been out of that for a long time but I ain't going for the Pizzagate/Sandy Hook school which targets innocent people who have suffered by effectively organizing a troll army against them. It's an ugly but recurring pattern.

The ugly and recurring pattern here is your use of weasel words. You're the troll. Please stop posting in this thread.

[Elvis]

A friendly reminder that this thread is not about the theories of Negri (and maybe Deleuze) or the consequences of capital flows profoundly altering conceptions of national interest. This thread is about Seth Rich, his possible connection to DNC email leaks, and the circumstances of his murder and its aftermath.

[Cordelia]

Cordelia, when I said "ombudsman" I was referring not tothe public official type, but the internal newspaper type, who is usually tasked with critiquing the paper and responding to public comments and questions. Sometimes titled as "reader representative."

I see WaPo has a web forum for this. If someone really wants to ask them why they are not responding to the WND story (or today's George Webb 'revelation'), that or the phone number you linked would be a great place to start, were one so inclined. Or we can just assume the WND piece is solid, and places like WaPo refuse to cover it solely because they are afraid of the answer and not because it is complete horseshit.

I care not two shits about Bezos' rag, but I don't think MSM failure to repeat an allegation from an unnamed restaurant manager in a WND piece constitutes evidence of anything other than good judgment.


quote]The Washingto n Post is a credible source? We can call them too, press 0 and request, I don't know, a reporter, an editor? 1:/800-477-4679
https://gethuman.com/phone-number/Washington-Post
I bet someone will get right on it, unbiased & respected newspaper that it is not.

[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying Mentagongfu; IMO, WMD has reported some very believable possibilities regarding the Rich case while the WaPo is, while maybe not 'afraid' of the answer (or maybe also),is certainly answering the call of other elite Washington agendas rather than responsible journalism. It would be interesting to see if they've published any 'Letters to the Editor' in the last several weeks calling them on their bias. The Post has become a rag in the last several years

[MacCruiskeen]

[...]. Or we can just assume the WND piece is solid, and places like WaPo refuse to cover it solely because they are afraid of the answer and not because it is complete horseshit.

I care not two shits about Bezos' rag, but I don't think MSM failure to repeat an allegation from an unnamed restaurant manager in a WND piece constitutes evidence of anything other than good judgment.

You're missing the point, and surely deliberately. Seriously: You think it shows good judgment by the WaPo a) not to interview the last people known to have seen Seth Rich alive, and b) not to ask the DC police whether they themselves ever bothered to interview those people or even to examine the surveillance video from Lou's City Bar?

You cannot be serious. What it actually constitutes evidence of is a serious and sustained effort by the Washington ComPost* to neglect the most basic and obvious duties of any self-respecting journalist or editor -- and in their own goddam city to boot. (Those hacks could literally walk there.)

Democracy Dies In Darkness, indeed. They are taking the piss.

*Not just any old rag, remember, but an enormously wealthy, hugely reputable, internationally renowned,139-year-old, CIA-funded journalistic flagbearer in the nation's capital city, Washington DC.

[Grizzly]

You're missing the point, and surely deliberately. Seriously: You think it shows good judgment by the WaPo a) not to interview the last people known to have seen Seth Rich alive, and b) not to ask the DC police whether they themselves ever bothered to interview those people or even to examine the surveillance video from Lou's City Bar?

You cannot be serious. What it actually constitutes evidence of is a serious and sustained effort by the Washington ComPost* to neglect the most basic and obvious duties of any self-respecting journalist or editor -- and in their own goddam city to boot. (Those hacks could literally walk there.)

Democracy Dies In Darkness, indeed. They are taking the piss.

*Not just any old rag, remember, but an enormously wealthy, hugely reputable, internationally renowned,139-year-old, CIA-funded journalistic flagbearer in the nation's capital city, Washington DC.

100% agree ...

[MacCruiskeen]

A google search for "washington post" "lou's city bar" produces only one single solitary article, from January this year. It is execrably written, even by the WaPo's unexacting standards, and it does not answer (or even ask) the question, whether the DC police did or did not interview the bar staff and/or examine the bar's surveillance video. The author is some spook called Manuel Roig-Franzia. His tabloidesque screed is full of anonymously-"sourced" (and often ridiculously implausible) blather, but it does contain one section of interest:

Officials told the Riches that their son, who died at a nearby hospital less than two hours after being shot, didn’t know he’d been hit in the back by two bullets. He wasn’t in pain, they were told. But he was confused. When Seth Rich was asked where he lived, he gave a previous address, Joel Rich said.

“They were very surprised he didn’t make it,” Aaron Rich said emergency responders told him. “He was very aware, very talkative. Yep, that was 100 percent my brother.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... 4f53031b6e

So Seth Rich was "very aware, very talkative", for nearly two hours after being shot. So what did he talk about? Did he give a description of his attacker[s]? Presumably. Did he express a desire to see his loved ones, or at least to have them informed immediately? Presumably. (In any case, he hadn't been robbed, so he was easily identifiable.) And to whom did he talk? I think we should be told.

The emergency responders, presumably experienced professionals, were "very surprised he didn’t make it". Right.

Note that his parents and brother were not even informed of Seth's serious wounding until after he had died. Talk about lack of respect for the family.

[American Dream]

Seth Rich Conspiracy Theorist Insists It’s Up To Critics To Disprove The Conspiracy Theory
By Kyle Mantyla | May 23, 2017 3:41 pm

Liz Crokin, a right-wing columnist and commentator who has been promoting the Seth Rich conspiracy theory on WorldNetDaily and elsewhere, appeared on “The Hagmann and Hagmann Report” last night, where she stated that the onus is on critics to disprove the right-wing conspiracy theory that Rich was murdered by the Democratic National Committee for leaking emails to Wikileaks.

Despite the fact that the conspiracy theory has been debunked, Rich’s family has denounced it and Fox News has retracted its coverage of it, Crokin still insisted that the supposed cover-up of his death is real and that the DNC is intimidating his family.

“You know how the deep state operates,” she said. “You know how the Clinton Mafia operates. These people, they use fear, they use intimidation, they will hurt you, they will hurt your family, they will hurt your pets, they’ll slash your tires, they will do horrible things to you, and I believe that this family is very fearful.”

Crokin said “you have to be absolutely brain dead” not to see that there is a massive cover-up at work.

“We’ve talked about ‘Pedogate’ before,” Crokin continued, referencing the right-wing conspiracy theory that various world leaders are part of a global network of satanic pedophiles who abuse and murder children. “This whole wag-the-dog, let’s call these people conspiracy theorists and call this a conspiracy theory when it’s so frickin’ obvious that Seth was not robbed and that he had clear ties to Wikileaks and most likely was the leaker—that’s not going to work anymore. The jig is up.”

“All these stories are coming out saying it’s a conspiracy theory and it’s been debunked,” she said. “We saw the same thing with Pedogate, but no one debunked it! If you want to debunk a story, a conspiracy theory, you have to prove evidence that X, Y, and Z isn’t true and no one does that! This isn’t the conspiracy theory defense. I’m sorry, it’s not going to fly anymore. The story is turning into a beast. Sean Hannity is on it now, thank God. Rush Limbaugh talked about it today. It’s starting to go mainstream and there are just too many worms out of the can and they can’t put them all back.”

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/seth ... cy-theory/

[MacCruiskeen]

^^"Rightwingwatch" my arse. These untiring efforts by you and your team to bury this entire incident as a "right-wing" fantasy are themselves strong prima facie evidence that the story has legs. That you and your allies never stop using the CIA's favourite weaponised term to discredit the most obvious and serious questions merely reveals you for what you are.

Were you not both a coward and a liar, you would address the issue of Seth Rich's murder in good faith, in your own words, and with honest attention to the evidence. Instead you resort to feeble and laughable attempts at bamboozlement by namechecking Negri and Deleuze, entirely irrelevantly and as if you knew either of them beyond Wikipedia. Then it's straight back to copy-and-pasting even more semiliterate garbage from any shitsite you can access at second hand. You are a complete fake and a serial abuser of this Discussion Board and this thread.

You are trolling this thread, "American Dream". Stop doing it.

[Cordelia]

A google search for "washington post" "lou's city bar" produces only one single solitary article, from January this year. It is execrably written, even by the WaPo's unexacting standards, and it does not answer (or even ask) the question, whether the DC police did or did not interview the bar staff and/or examine the bar's surveillance video. The author is some spook called Manuel Roig-Franzia. His tabloidesque screed is full of anonymously-"sourced" (and often ridiculously implausible) blather, but it does contain one section of interest:

Officials told the Riches that their son, who died at a nearby hospital less than two hours after being shot, didn’t know he’d been hit in the back by two bullets. He wasn’t in pain, they were told. But he was confused. When Seth Rich was asked where he lived, he gave a previous address, Joel Rich said.

“They were very surprised he didn’t make it,” Aaron Rich said emergency responders told him. “He was very aware, very talkative. Yep, that was 100 percent my brother.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... 4f53031b6e

So Seth Rich was "very aware, very talkative", for nearly two hours after being shot. So what did he talk about? Did he give a description of his attacker[s]? Presumably. Did he express a desire to see his loved ones, or at least to have them informed immediately? Presumably. (In any case, he hadn't been robbed, so he was easily identifiable.) And to whom did he talk? I think we should be told.

The emergency responders, presumably experienced professionals, were "very surprised he didn’t make it". Right.

Note that his parents and brother were not even informed of Seth's serious wounding until after he had died. Talk about lack of respect for the family.

I remember that now, reported in the 'Lifestyle' section. All very revealing that the whole ‘investigation’ and ‘reportage’ stinks of collusion to bury this case from the very beginning. But I have to wonder, why is it so hard for people to see? Is it fear (which would be understandable for family and friends of Rich); where is critical analysis of accountability?

It does seem that WND is offering the only consistent reporting on the Rich case as it unfolds.........the latest from the Burkman camp:

Investigator sues for clues in Seth Rich murder mystery

The head of a private investigative team in Washington, D.C., trying to solve the murder of Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich plans to file a lawsuit Wednesday to push the Metropolitan Police Department to release information relating to the mysterious killing, according to a new report.

Jack Burkman, the head of the Profiling Project investigative team, is seeking video footage of the shooting, the medical examiner’s report and ballistics reports, the Daily Caller reported. He plans to file his lawsuit in the District of Columbia Superior Court and hold a press conference outside Metropolitan Police Department headquarters.

As WND reported, Jack Burkman, the head of the Profiling Project investigative team, insisted that officials with the Metropolitan Police Department – in collusion with the mayor – are withholding key evidence from the public and obstructing the investigation for political purposes. Burkman, who is also an attorney and a lobbyist, said police are no longer cooperating with anyone, and he believes they’ve completely stopped the investigation into the murder of Rich, who served as the DNC’s voter expansion data director.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/05/investigator ... r-mystery/

It'll be interesting to see where he goes with this.

(Didn't John Lennon also die later, at the hospital?)