Aurora CO Theater Massacre

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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:18 pm

@brekin: What's wrong with that author? It was clearly CENTURY 16(owned by cinemark) and not Regal Cinemas.
Not saying it clouds the rest of his research, but I mean it clearly said Century on the building.

Btw, whats everyones take on the VT shooting? Im still left wondering what was up with that.




Brilliant brilliant article. I prefer criticism of conspiracy culture by people within para-politics than stodgy liberal gatekeepers writing hit pieces. Like Jeff Wells brilliant "new coke"
article years ago chastising much of the "9/11 truth" circus, this is a really spot on piece
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby yathrib » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:33 pm

BTW, I don't know where the rest of you stand on seeing this film now. It may have come up somewhere in the -20 pages of the thread. If so, I apologize. I had definitely mixed feelings before the incident, but I was pretty sure I was going to see it, and best to get it over with early. Now attending the movie is being played in the media as an affirmation of "life." To me, it looks even more like the crypto fascist bread-and-circuses spectacle it appeared to be in the first place. I'm leaning pretty strongly toward giving it a miss. Not that I'm judging any of you who react differently. I can't even say I'm basing this on any firm, principled stand. Give me enough social pressure, and I'll probably fold. But for now...
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby ida pingala » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:37 pm

yathrib wrote:BTW, I don't know where the rest of you stand on seeing this film now. It may have come up somewhere in the -20 pages of the thread. If so, I apologize. I had definitely mixed feelings before the incident, but I was pretty sure I was going to see it, and best to get it over with early. Now attending the movie is being played in the media as an affirmation of "life." To me, it looks even more like the crypto fascist bread-and-circuses spectacle it appeared to be in the first place. I'm leaning pretty strongly toward giving it a miss. Not that I'm judging any of you who react differently. I can't even say I'm basing this on any firm, principled stand. Give me enough social pressure, and I'll probably fold. But for now...


Don't yield to social pressure.

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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:00 pm

Bruce Dazzling wrote:
Luther Blissett wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:I'm just responding to your post in a sort of thinking-out-loud way, 8bit, so if at the end it seems I've pulled it apart needlessly, please don't feel slighted cause you're someone I completely dig.

8bitagent wrote:1. Why does it always come out that there's a parallel training exercise? Like with Oslo, exact bomb/mass shooting drill hours before(she, sure didnt help with preparedness)

and 7/7.. and there's another big one I'm missing. But I can't think of any pre-9.11. were there any?


Absolutely. There were many, for a couple of years before 9/11, that featured multiple hijackers on twin airliners, terrorist suicide plane crash attacks at the Pentagon, etc etc. There are rumors of one being planned for the morning of September 11, which I remember hearing about on the news in the immediate aftermath of the event. 9/11 set the stage for "military training" parallels as far as I'm aware.

http://web.archive.org/web/200608100150 ... jacobs.pdf


More 9/11 exercises.

From History Commons:

9:00 a.m. September 11, 2001: 9/11-Style Simulation Set to Commence at Agency near Pentagon

A training exercise is scheduled to begin at a US intelligence agency located just over 20 miles from the Pentagon, based around the scenario of a small corporate jet plane experiencing a mechanical failure and crashing into a tower building there. The exercise, which has been planned for several months, is to take place at the headquarters of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) in Chantilly, Virginia, four miles away from Washington Dulles International Airport and 24 miles from the Pentagon. [ASSOCIATED PRESS, 8/21/2002; UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL, 8/22/2002]


7:00 a.m. -9:03 a.m. September 11, 2001: Preparations Continue at New York Pier for September 12 Bioterrorism Exercise

At Pier 92 on the Hudson River, preparations are underway for a training exercise due to take place there the following day. The exercise, called Tripod, which had been scheduled months earlier, is intended to test how well New York’s Office of Emergency Management (OEM) can administer treatment in response to a biological-terrorism attack (see September 12, 2001). [NEW YORK MAGAZINE, 10/15/2001; GIULIANI, 2002, PP. 355] Pier 92, located just over four miles north-northwest of the World Trade Center, has been set up as a model distribution station where the simulated victims will be treated. [JENKINS AND EDWARDS-WINSLOW, 9/2003, PP. 15 AND 20] Ken Longert, the owner of a theatrical lighting business, arrives at the pier at 7:00 a.m. to help get the place ready for the exercise. He will later recall, “Two or three hundred cadets [presumably with the New York police and fire departments] were there, learning the proper procedures in case some kind of disaster hit New York.” Longert will recall that, seconds after the second WTC tower is hit at 9:03, “all the people from OEM disappeared” from the pier. [DIMARCO, 2007, PP. 457-458] After OEM’s original command center is destroyed when WTC 7—where it is located—collapses (see (5:20 p.m.) September 11, 2001), Pier 92 will be selected as the location for the substitute command center. [9/11 COMMISSION, 5/19/2004] Members of OEM staff have also arrived early this morning at the OEM offices in WTC 7 to prepare for the exercise (see 8:48 a.m. September 11, 2001). [JENKINS AND EDWARDS-WINSLOW, 9/2003, PP. 15]


thanks for those but sorry, guys, I wasn't clear. I meant I don't remember for instance an identical training exercise happening in tandem with an actual event at the Murrah Building or anything prior to the 9/11 coincidental training.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby ninakat » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:05 pm

I didn't plan on seeing it, but definitely won't now -- not that I'd be particularly paranoid at the theater, but because of the fresh darkness of reality bestowed upon it.

But I've been wondering how this will change ticket sales. If gun sales are any indication, ticket sales will probably skyrocket.

Colorado guns sales skyrocket after theater massacre
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby brekin » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:26 pm

8bitagent wrote:

@brekin: What's wrong with that author? It was clearly CENTURY 16(owned by cinemark) and not Regal Cinemas.
Not saying it clouds the rest of his research, but I mean it clearly said Century on the building.


Actually my bad. I think Regal's statement was about their awareness of the incident happening at another theatre chain
and not one of their own.

Regal Entertainment Group also released a statement:

"We are profoundly saddened by the tragedy that occurred at a Denver area theatre and are concerned for the victims and their families. The security and safety of our guests and staff is always our number one priority. As is our custom, we will continue to monitor the situation and adjust our security needs as necessary. In the meantime, our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families."

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/national/b ... z21Zcu2maP
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby RocketMan » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:12 pm



Witness states someone let Holmes in the theater after receiving phone call.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:23 pm

.

I had no intent to see this movie in a theater. Now that it has been transformed in some sense, and also given the disturbing political message it sends,* I am eager to study the impact, the zeitgeist of it, with an audience. I haven't seen any of the propaganda claiming that after the massacre it has become a life-affirming thing to buy tickets, however. That's pretty disgusting, a new low corresponding to the immediate post-9/11 dictum: Don't let the terrorists win - Go shopping!

.

* - few want to see that message for some reason, although it's straightforward in the plot of hero billionaire vs. evil rabble rouser
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby ninakat » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:25 pm

ninakat wrote:But I've been wondering how this will change ticket sales. If gun sales are any indication, ticket sales will probably skyrocket.


Looks like I was wrong :shock: .... although, that could turn around.... or not. :shrug:

'Dark Knight Rises' sales below forecasts after shooting
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby DrVolin » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:55 pm

so anyone know what happened to John Doe #2 (or 3, or in this case, perhaps even 4)?
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:28 pm

HEREBY ARCHIVED FOR #TRUTHINESS and MOST ILLUMINATING LULZ

Sierra Peterson said...
Ok, I'm trying to understand here...in previous posts you've praised the work of David Lynch, who has literally made horror movies about incest, yet you're blaming the shooting on the violent imagery in the Batman movie? Really? Fire Walk With Me is one of the most disturbing horror movies I've ever seen, even compared to ultra-brutal stuff like Hostel. It doesn't make much sense to point out the voyeuristic hypocrisy of the conspiratainment crowd if you're doing the same thing yourself. Personally, I agree that the abundance of violent imagery in pop culture is a sign of a sick society(not excluding myself), but it starts veering into very dangerous territory when you state that this depiction is the sole underlying cause of a senseless shooting. I don't like the neofascist ideology of the Batman movies either, but holding the filmmakers responsible for this atrocity is heading awfully close to a to tolerance of the kind of ideas that form the basis of mass censorship campaigns.


Christopher Loring Knowles said...
You are deliberately misrepresenting what I said, Sierra. At no point do I claim Nolan or the Batman film is responsible. The shooter is responsible for the massacre. What I am talking about is a general dehumanizing culture and a level of psychological manipulation that is irresponsible and unwise. These mass shootings don't exist in a vacuum- they exist in a culture that reduces human beings to targets to be mowed down. This is something I believe we ALL have to take responsibility for and be accountable to. I don't like it, I've never liked it.


Sierra Peterson said...
"I do know that he deliberately created a brand new archetype with his Joker, the real protagonist of The Dark Knight. A figure of pure, wanton destruction- the killer that every Jugalo would love to be when they grow up. This was pure psychological manipulation of the worst kind, and has had terrible _real_world_results_." The "real world results" you linked to is a list of killers and other disturbed people who adopted the Joker persona. Stating that these murders are an effect of the movie takes responsibility away from the killer and places it in the hands of the filmmaker, and I think that perspective is irresponsible and unwise. Ideas like that can easily lead to the conclusion that depiction of violence and actual violence are of equal moral weight, the same mistake made by Vigilant Citizen, Jones and all the rest when they talk about "predictive programming".

And you have yet to address how it's not hypocritical to criticize the "dehumanizing" themes of Batman while praising the incest-themed horror movie, Fire Walk With Me. At a certain point, it becomes obvious that attraction to difficult subject matter is a part of the human condition, and attempts to repress that instinct are not only unhealthy but dangerous. Whether or not that attraction becomes problematic is all about context and providing a healthy balance, since either extreme ("fear porn" or fluffy love and light) can result in dysfunction.

Christopher Knowles said...



If you don't know that song you won't get the joke..."I'm Stiiiiillllll Waiting...." Chris got mythopoetically quiet after that.

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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby barracuda » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:35 pm

Christopher Knowles wrote:As per usual there will be the usual baseless theorizing, because we live in a culture where absolutely no one can ever -must never- be held accountable for their own actions anymore.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:38 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:c2w, I honestly have no idea what it might mean to say that someone "looks schizophrenic", unless it means that he looks heavily drugged. Of course, anyone designated "schizophrenic" usually is heavily drugged, especially in the USA, and most especially after 48 hours in solitary confinement as a murder suspect, watched over only by cops, warders and prison psychiatrists.

He looks heavily drugged, all right; i.e., absent, dazed, anaesthetized, apathetic, completely out of it. At times he can barely keep his eyes open. He looks like an empty shell.

"He seems to be nodding off."


I read somewhere that he had taken Vicodin, in which case it might make sense if he seemed to be nodding out (ie -- if he was a scrip junkie). But that's not even speculation, let alone a hypothesis. It's just a thought crossing my mind more or less at random.

ADVISORY: If you think the following is too long, DON'T READ IT.

But to answer your question: It means nothing to say that someone looks schizophrenic, in any literal sense. You can't actually tell who someone is or why he/she did anything simply by looking at him/her, even when you have a closer and more comprehensive view than we (you and I) do of Holmes. So.

Point of Clarification One:

I didn't actually mean that "looks" literally. I guess I just didn't feel comfortable saying that he was schizophrenic, both on the same grounds (except more so, by a factor of approximately infinity) and others, including but not limited to:

Point of Clarification Two:

I suppose that I'd hold that the word "schizophrenic" means more than nothing for strictly utilitarian communication purposes, in that it's commonly understood by pretty much everybody to mean (among other things) "subject to bouts of psychosis of unknown origin and etiology (typically though not always starting in young adulthood for males) that frequently occur in conjunction with a number of other, preexisting features and characteristics -- such as social isolation, an unemotive manner, a preoccupation with imaginary realms that are, in some way, kinda fantastical -- that not only aren't, in themselves, pathologically abnormal attributes in anybody (let alone in a male adolescent) but actually very fucking common."

But I wouldn't go a whole lot further than that without some pretty fucking rigorously quantified, qualified and specifically detailed elaboration wrt exactly what I was saying and why I was saying it. Because (among other things) even the AP-fucking-A wouldn't, couldn't and doesn't, as far as its official position on the matter goes. Granted, a lot of its members ("psychiatrists") do. Maybe most of them. And, strictly in the arena of clinical practice, probably virtually all of them. Frequently with tragic consequences. Which are (also frequently) the natural and foreseeable result of a horrendous, reprehensible, and callous disregard on the clinician's part for the welfare of the vulnerable people who end up in (what's supposed to be) his or her care.

But, you know. It's very difficult to speak to*** that type of affair in general terms, while still saying anything at all that's meaningful, cant-free and non-sanctimonious.

So. Moving right along.

Point of Clarification Three:

I guess I just thought that "schizophrenic" had the considerable advantage of being commonly understood to mean what I just finished saying, while being only one word long. Which seemed to me to greatly outweigh the (in this case) relatively minor disadvantage of its also connoting "condition of bio-psycho-social origin that is (or maybe "should be"?) responsive to medical treatment of some kind. Though not necessarily (or even probably) to the exclusion of all other things."

(In this case, "relatively minor" because I didn't particularly mean or not mean that. BTW.)

Point of Clarification Four:

Seriously, MacC, my friend. I really only meant something so simple and uncontroversial that it practically defies clarification. But what the hell. I'll give it a try. When I said

He just looks schizophrenic to me.


what I meant was:

    This young man's demeanor and actions appear to me to be consistent with something very sad and painful that I'm familiar with in other people -- some of whom I've known well and others of whom I know casually -- for which I have no explanation, although I wish very much that I did. Because the necessity of living with the lack of one is an almost intolerably painful thing to acknowledge, under the circumstances. As it is under many, many others.

    However, since this isn't actually about either me or my feelings to any very significant degree, I don't really have any excuse for letting my personal need for an explanation bumrush me into saying that I do know or can see one that's much more elaborate or much less uncertain than that, when (in fact) I don't and can't. Apart from the pleasures of self-indulgence. Which isn't much of an excuse here, as already noted.

And that was about it.

________________

Note for Record, Superfluous, Confidential to MacC:

I take what (just for convenience's sake) I guess I'll call "mental-health-related concerns" pretty fucking seriously. And whenever that applies, it would really just be a fatal act against self-interest for me to lull myself into thinking that I knew or saw a whole lot more than nothing about the object of my interest, for me personally. I've never gotten anywhere I wished to go when I started out at "I know." Or, ftm, gotten a whole lot further than the mirror (figuratively speaking) when I started out at "I want to know" as opposed to "I want to find out."

So. It's not like I enjoy this. But I usually try to make some infinitely repeating form of "There's something I don't know. What is it?" my default starting point for stuff that I don't understand but seriously wish that I did. For (roughly) the reasons stated above, that's (roughly) what "looks schizophrenic" connotes to me. But that could just be me. And frankly, I kind of hope that it is. Because it's a mind-bogglingly boring concept and/or approach. It just happens to work for me.

However, fwiw, ^^that's truly and essentially all I really intended to say, honey.

I can't honestly claim that I said it, obviously. But I wasn't actually trying to. I was just trying to say something very basic (maybe crude) that didn't starkly and actively contradict it.


(I'm so sorry. But you asked!)

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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:53 pm

yathrib wrote:BTW, I don't know where the rest of you stand on seeing this film now. It may have come up somewhere in the -20 pages of the thread. If so, I apologize. I had definitely mixed feelings before the incident, but I was pretty sure I was going to see it, and best to get it over with early. Now attending the movie is being played in the media as an affirmation of "life." To me, it looks even more like the crypto fascist bread-and-circuses spectacle it appeared to be in the first place. I'm leaning pretty strongly toward giving it a miss. Not that I'm judging any of you who react differently. I can't even say I'm basing this on any firm, principled stand. Give me enough social pressure, and I'll probably fold. But for now...



I was already planning on seeing it opening weekend, kind of made me wanna see it more(just fear it might get pulled...you know how the media is)

The only real controversy should be how the film is a bit bloated, sluggish and lacks the sheer urgency and awesome vibe of the dark knight 2008. Though Bane is all sorts of kick ass.
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Re: Aurora CO Theater Massacre

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:59 pm

RocketMan wrote:

Witness states someone let Holmes in the theater after receiving phone call.



That is probably the single biggest anomaly besides what this kid was studying. Surprised more hasnt been made of it.
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