Alien Abductions and the Monarch Project

[Dreams End]

Anyone have current contact information for Cannon?

That guy was way ahead of his time and I'm sorry UFO folks ran him out on a rail.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

Anyone have current contact information for Cannon?

That guy was way ahead of his time and I'm sorry UFO folks ran him out on a rail.

Can you prove that DE, or is this simply conjecture you gleaned from Lilypat's post? Your not being MC'd are you?

"Frankly, UFO buffs and conspiracy nuts kind of make me feel ill these days. I am SO damned sick of always being called an "agent"..."

While this was written long ago, it would apply today if Mr. Cannon would have brought his thoughts on Monarch into this thread. To me the term "Agent" is NOT something Ufologist would use to describe Mr. Cannon's hypothesis (I can think of a few other things, but not that). Rather, I see that Mr. Cannon is intimating that it is the MC crowd, fans of O'Brien et all, who most likely sent Mr. Cannon down the rail...they are the folks who use the term "agent", dis-info or otherwise freely and on a regular basis. Sometimes they just call them 'Pedophiles' straight away. Right Lilypat? Case in point is in this thread. Because I disagreed and suspected very early on, I was accused of being Lilypats "stalker". You'll all soon see how this works...

It's funny that while Lilypat sees Mr. Cannon's work "The Controllers" as some sort of holy grail when it comes to solving the Abduction phenomenon, he himself long ago disavowed the hypothesis he put forth in that work. And while she is aware of this fact, she fails on a consistent basis to bring both sides to the discussion. This is simply dishonest, disinforming by omission and a form of MC in and of itself. She has become what she despises so much...

Well, I see this thread has attracted the "usual suspects."

LOL.....the only thing 'usual' here is your incorrectness OSR....that, and you (and your crews) pattern/modus operandi (which has now become quite clear AND exposed elsewhere), so I won't be engaging you (or them) directly. Read into that what you will...

The thing I find most interesting is that you, OSR, are in fact, the worst enemy of the MC victims around. I think this is most likely by intention. Why do insist on stirring up trouble every where you go (UC, The BV, and elsewhere). Don't you realize that by doing this, the very thing you and the crew espouse becomes suspect. Sure, you may glean a few more members of the cult/game along the way, but in the long run the search engines will simply expose you for what you are. You simply can't escape them...the focus then becomes you, the attention on you. Hasn't this been the point all along?

Don't worry Joe, your now part of a very elite group. Say hi to George W., Britney Spears and all the rest of the Monarchs for us will ya....:rolleyes:

Que the Sock Puppets/Proxy Whores.....

[Dreams End]

Well, actually, I haven't seen his official explanation other than that very listserv thing you posted. That's one reason I wanted to contact him. Meanwhile, he "disowned" the research. He wanted his name off of it. Beyond that, I see no repudiation. If it were simply a matter of changing his mind, he would have explained why he changed it and what elements of his former research were faulty.

He specifically said "UFO buffs and conspiracy nuts" were the issue. He didn't mention MC victims though anyone who doesn't recognize O'Brien for what she is (possibly not willfully but as a manipulated victim) then their powers of discernment are not so hot. Recognizing that does not mean it follows that MKULTRA and BLUEBIRD didn't exist.

Since I was just accused by Whitley Strieber himself of being an agent, I can tell you that it does happen. I applied the same thesis Cannon did to Strieber's own accounts. He didn't like it and suggested I had "an official agenda."

Strieber was very polite when he suggested I might be an agent and I don't harbor any ill will because of it, but that is, in fact, exactly what he said. By the way, as you well know, Strieber himself has all kinds of very disturbing memories of very human abusers based at a nearby air force base.

I think my own posts speak for themselves as to whether I'm just a "fanboy" or if I've done my own research. I'm taking it further than Cannon did. He got there before me but I got there independently. So did Alex Constantine.

And if you don't think UFOlogist types would call someone an agent...you are sadly mistaken. Happens all the time, primarily due to the fact that a huge number of them are...not as in speculation but as in publicly identifying as such. Oh sure...there's usually a "former" stuck on at the beginning. The whole UFO community is positively swarming with them. And even after they admit to giving out disinfo (Moore) they are still not rejected. In fact, I should have said the UFO community is "flocking" with agents, as the Aviary itself is one big spook factory.


But keep the faith...maybe the NEXT tidbit of insider information will really be true this time. So hang onto your Val Valerian posters and Dulce maps...the truth is out there!

Ballocks.

The biggest coverup in history is the subject of movies, tv shows, video games and even bumper stickers. Some coverup. It's all part of the big social engineering project.

I know who is behind it. I know what they are trying to accomplish. And the beauty of it is, because so many of the big players in UFOlogy have open intel ties and because SRI was kind enough to print their operating manual, very little of it is speculation. They don't even bother to hide their tracks. And they are laughing at you.

For the record, there is no evidence whatsoever that a Project Monarch existed by that name. But there are certainly MC victims...in fact, we have the government's own records about some of them. And if you don't think that there's an underworld of abused and mind controlled kids out there...you know what...keep thinking that. Because I am now convinced of it and I can't say that knowledge has enhanced my own quality of life much. Seriously. If you can read about the Finders, for example, and walk away with that same dismissive tone, then you are likely better off for it. You'll sleep better, anyway. Till the aliens come and wake you.


If you'd like to challenge my own take on the subject, feel free to visit my blog. I really don't know who you are or what the beef is between you and LilyPat, and I really don't care. But if you come to me with that flimsy argumentation and casting vague aspersions (or whatever that question about me being "MC" was about), I'll rip your posts to shreds.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Man all these questions. Usually when someone asks me this many questions my response is:"What are you, a cop?"

Dad is Indian, "Full blooded" as if that makes any difference. I am a mongrel tho.

Born in Tassie.

The whole event took a minute or two OSR, and has more in common with a DMT flash in many ways. The buzzing and "Cartoonland" (anyone who has had DMT should recognise that place) aspect of it, specifically.

But if it wasn't for the almost telepathic info that the old fella told me, and then repeated on the phone word for word, I would have probably called it sleep paralysis.

You should know that in your story, what happned to you and your subsequent memory and understanding of it based on that memory WAS ENGINEERED.

Probably only by me tho.

No one can tell another what their own truth is ...only one can point in certain drirections and advise "look here" based on their own experience and as this whole Monarch thing hass certain "universals' in regard to the structural dynamics and other common denominators, I can say that I may be a bit further down the road then others and I can say I KNOW things because, perhaps from where I stand on the long path of No Return, I can see things and know what I see ('see' being not limited to sight) is as true and real as what you describe when you sepak of such mundane and worldy things as your football matchs ...I see them in that same kinda manner, without the gloss and the charade and part of tyhe reason why is because I was trained at the business end of an electric cattle prod to be able to access pure "target information" without any "gloss" or conscious projection put into it ..and as a child I also had this ability up close and in person; I COULD "SEE" THEM AS THEY WERE RIGHT THROUGH THEIR PRETENSE and that is one of the reasons I was "chosen" for the programs I was ...chosen for and so 'finely-tuned' ... and so I have done an aikido flip on them in so many words...using what they taught me to do to them ....brilliant eh? ....and because I can "see" in this manner and I can say to others a little less traveled up this path ...."hey, I know what that is ....been there done that got the t-shirt" and I can help them navigate the path so as to avoid endless pointless traps designed to keep them stuck in looped paradigms and circular programming ....for the path is a very twisted one and illsuionary one frought with sometimes grave dangers, designed by them and forever changing like a chess game in which they move ALL the pieces and you and I are just "pawns' in the game.

Now that actually reminds me of HMW. (BTW Hugh if you are readng this Hi). Smacks of confirmation bias.

I appreciate the time you are taking to read and interpret my story, but I still don't agree, and some of what you are saying seems almost like an attempt to tell me how to think, which never sits well.

I am more interested in what was hiding behind the mantis' costume, tracking it down and eating it myself if you like.

see humans are the highest thing on the cosmological food chain.

We are what decides what spirits or forces are invoked into this physical reality. Maybe a human on a wreck in the middle of the Pacific is not the highest point on the physical food chain, but thats about it as far as the things that try and eat our souls go there is nothing that can do that without permission. Anything from (out there in mindspace)that comes into the world does so through us.

Sure other humans can do nasty things, but that just boils down to a good old fight, you either win or cop a flogging, thats about it.

BTW Aussie Rules football is a game of intense cosmological significance. If we stopped playing it, the world would slip off its access and the sun would go out.

not many people know that.

[Dreams End]

By the sort of coincidence that is the rule rather than the exception when researching this sort of thing...from McGowan's "Programmed to Kill."

"Coupled with the fact that the press have consistently downplayed the occurrence of child molestation is the equally disturbing fact that that very same media have actively promoted the sexualization of children – a trend that has been greatly accelerated in recent years, and which has served to, to some degree, legitimize pedophilia. Taking note of the proliferation of young teen - and even pre-teen - sex symbols, Tom Junod wrote in Esquire (February 2001) that: “the entire culture is besotted with the erotic promise of teenage girls … The lure of jailbait now supplies the erotic energy to a popular culture desperate for what’s new, what’s young, what’s alive.” The Junod article is, strangely enough, a profile of Greg Dark, one-half of the former ‘Dark Brothers’ – notorious purveyors of dark-themed, occult-tinged porno films. Dark is rather noteworthy for having openly produced and peddled child pornography, in that many of his films featured a very young Traci Lords, who began working with the Dark Brothers at the age of thirteen.

But Dark has now put those days long behind him. He is now working comfortably in the mainstream. And he is no longer marketing teen sexuality. No, now he is creating music videos … for Britney Spears, Mandy Moore and the pre-teen Leslie Carter (sister of Aaron Carter and “Back Street Boy” Nick Carter). That is, according to Dark, a completely different line of work."

Some interesting facts about Dark emerge in the Esquire profile. It is revealed, for instance, that he was raised by a satanist father. Dark’s father “used to read to Gregory from the works of Aleister Crowley, the noted satanist, when Gregory was very young.” His father’s collection of ‘black magick’ books is one of Dark’s most cherished possessions.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

Well, actually, I haven't seen his official explanation other than that very listserv thing you posted. That's one reason I wanted to contact him.

Didn't think so....probably would have been a good idea to do that -before- you picked up the ball eh?

Meanwhile, he "disowned" the research. He wanted his name off of it. Beyond that, I see no repudiation. If it were simply a matter of changing his mind, he would have explained why he changed it and what elements of his former research were faulty.

An assumption but OK....(since most of what you write about is built upon them anyway)

He specifically said "UFO buffs and conspiracy nuts" were the issue. He didn't mention MC victims though anyone who doesn't recognize O'Brien for what she is (possibly not willfully but as a manipulated victim) then their powers of discernment are not so hot.

So we've gone from "UFO Buffs make me ill" to UFOlogy folks ran him out on a rail...who specifically DE? Let's see those powers of discernment in action...or do you simply wish to retract that particular unchecked fact? And should I take it then, that you agree with Mr. Cannon's views on Monarch and it's promoters?

Recognizing that does not mean it follows that MKULTRA and BLUEBIRD didn't exist.

No one ever said they didn't. Doesn't mean that they were (or are) related to the Abduction phenomena in any way shape or form either...

And if you don't think UFOlogist types would call someone an agent...you are sadly mistaken. Happens all the time, primarily due to the fact that a huge number of them are...not as in speculation but as in publicly identifying as such. Oh sure...there's usually a "former" stuck on at the beginning. The whole UFO community is positively swarming with them. And even after they admit to giving out disinfo (Moore) they are still not rejected. In fact, I should have said the UFO community is "flocking" with agents, as the Aviary itself is one big spook factory.

I certainly recognize the relationship between Ufology, The AFOSI and Disinformation (try reading the whole thread), however, I don't think that Cannons "Alien Abductions are really MC program" quite holds a candle to them...the term used by Ufologist probably would have been "NUTJOB" rather than "AGENT".

But keep the faith...maybe the NEXT tidbit of insider information will really be true this time. So hang onto your Val Valerian posters and Dulce maps...the truth is out there!

Well said... you certainly won't find any in here ala the thread topic.

The biggest coverup in history is the subject of movies, tv shows, video games and even bumper stickers. Some coverup. It's all part of the big social engineering project.

I know who is behind it. I know what they are trying to accomplish. And the beauty of it is, because so many of the big players in UFOlogy have open intel ties and because SRI was kind enough to print their operating manual, very little of it is speculation. They don't even bother to hide their tracks. And they are laughing at you.

Have you met OSR DE? DE, OSR, OSR, DE..... LOL (at YOU both)

For the record, there is no evidence whatsoever that a Project Monarch existed by that name. But there are certainly MC victims...in fact, we have the government's own records about some of them. And if you don't think that there's an underworld of abused and mind controlled kids out there...you know what...keep thinking that. Because I am now convinced of it and I can't say that knowledge has enhanced my own quality of life much. Seriously. If you can read about the Finders, for example, and walk away with that same dismissive tone, then you are likely better off for it. You'll sleep better, anyway. Till the aliens come and wake you.

Speaking of the "Finders" DE, did you ever follow up on the lead I provided you in this thread on Usdin?

Finders

Oh, I see you did here...

Finders Again

Your welcome.... However, and this is probably the 'rub' of my 'beef' as mentioned below. The more you guys (you, lilypat, OSR) try to link abductions, MILABS and NWO shit with MC/RA/Pedophilia Rings, the more you align (or malign) the whole topic with citizenship to Tin Foil Hat country. In turn, when the real thing happens, the less it's paid attention too because YOU and those like you drag it down the fucking Rabbithole...get it? Some do it innocently, other's with quite another agenda.

If you'd like to challenge my own take on the subject, feel free to visit my blog. I really don't know who you are or what the beef is between you and LilyPat, and I really don't care. But if you come to me with that flimsy argumentation and casting vague aspersions (or whatever that question about me being "MC" was about), I'll rip your posts to shreds.

I'll try to be more "polite" (ala Strieber) about it next time DE. Sorry to see you get yer panties in such a bunch....(not really). As far as visiting your blog, I'm not all that enamored with the company you keep so, no thanks.

[Dreams End]

No, cowbell, what I meant about the listserv is that I had seen it before, but that it did not go into much detail. However, I thought Cannon was quite clear. You posted it yourself. UFO buffs and conspiracy nuts made him sick. So he quit. I don't know the whole story but it sure looks to me like his theories were not argued rationally but were met with hostility and agent-jacketing. So he split. I really don't see what subtle shades of meaning you are trying to parse out there. Not one mention of MC folks being the culprits.

And should I take it then, that you agree with Mr. Cannon's views on Monarch and it's promoters?

You should reread my last post where I made my views on Monarch extremely clear, though I was merely responding to your post...I did not bring up Monarch in connection with alien abductions at all.

But I really only responded so I could point out this:

The more you guys (you, lilypat, OSR) try to link abductions, MILABS and NWO shit with MC/RA/Pedophilia Rings, the more you align (or malign) the whole topic with citizenship to Tin Foil Hat country.

So, you honestly believe that a theory that rests on human beings is MORE tin foil hat than one that suggests it's aliens? I'm going to have to say the burden of proof is quite the reverse. Sorry, but aliens require more tinfoil than CIA agents and the like with a known history of messing with people's minds for fun and profit. By the way, why don't you ask Puharich's ghost what he was doing with all those little kids he was hypnotizing at his own little "secret school"? Hey...and what do you know...after hypnotizing them, it turns out they ALL had contact with ALIENS. EVERY ONE OF THEM. WHAT a COINCIDENCE!

Now, since you won't read my blog and since I'm not going to repost it all here, we are at a bit of an impasse, aren't we? I provide the information. You ignore it. Fair enough, as that seems to be a common approach on this topic.


And you didn't respond to the point you should be most familiar with. Strieber himself has recounted MANY memories that are clearly MKULTRA related (if they are even true.) Among them:

--Vicious abuse at the hands of Paperclipped Nazis (assumption) at Randolph AFB.
--Missing time of approximately 6 weeks while he was running around Europe. He recalls being on an airplane, apparently over Africa (seeing adobe huts) and he'd just been in Spain, so Algeria is likely. At JUST THAT TIME, a plane of Israelis had been hijacked in Italy (where he started out) and ended up in Algiers. And LOOK MA, NO ALIENS!

--Memories as a kid of being interrogated in a round, concrete room for hours at a time with "mindbending" questions (common cult technique.)

--Meanwhile, across town from Randolph AFB was Lackland AFB. At the time Strieber was undergoing his "secret school" experiences, stationed at Lackland was Louis Jolyon West, one of the head honchos of MKULTRA whose interests included: inducing altered states via drugs and hypnosis, religious conversion experiences and cult dynamics, dissociative states, etc.

--And practically right across his back yard was Brooks Medical Center, also associated with the Air force and which worked closely on these things with the other two bases. For some reason this is where they took him when his immune system collapsed when he was a kid. And by a really weird coincidence, Brooks was performing radiation experiments in the early sixties and possibly earlier. Radiation is not good for immune systems, I understand, but then again, neither is the stress of systemic abuse. But I did find it odd that this is where he went when he got sick as it was a military hospital. I wonder if that could account for his memories of being forcefed hallucinogens (by an alien, but the only one alien in the room) while he was in a room filled with soldiers unconscious on hospital beds of some kind? As his dad screamed in terror. Oh, those aliens and their spiritual wisdom.

There are tons more such things. So to say that the two are so unrelated that associating them with each other is "tin foil hat" material...that's just silly. I mean come on...what's this about:

Among my worst memories, one that has come back to me again and again and again over the course of my life, is of waking up and finding that I am in a coffin. A box. I wake up when I try to move, and my head bounces against the top of the thing. I cannot get out. I’m trapped. The silence is absolute. The air is heavy. Soon, my breathing is agonizing. I’m in torment. But it doesn’t end. It keeps on and on and on. I remain for what seems like hours at the edge of suffocation. I scream, I see demons staring at me, I see angels, I see my grandfather Strieber there, then I see a long horizon, the sun either rising or setting.

For the record, Strieber himself admits to all this human abuse but says it "cracked him open" in a way that allowed the contact with the aliens. But sometimes I have trouble telling his human abuse apart for his alien abuse. Sometimes he does too. I could be wrong, of course. I'm not claiming omniscience but clearly there is tons of evidence to support the theory.

See all the fun stuff you are missing by not slumming it over at my place?

Really, I can't even respond much to what you posted because you haven't read my own research and your rebuttals didn't even really rebut anything...not anything I've written anyway.

And in a couple of weeks, you can ignore my discussion of "Changing Images of Man" the document put out by Defense/intel research firm SRI. Guess what they said?

The world can't go on much longer but is headed for catastrophe. (this was in the early 70's but somehow we are still kicking.)

People must learn to lower their expectations and gaze inward.

A very difficult period is coming, that will require authoritarian measures, but if their advice is heeded this could be blessedly short, followed by a new Golden Age. If not...well, you don't want to know about that.

Oh...and would you believe it? Global Corporations are going to lead the way! (I'm not shitting you about that...it's in the freaking book.)

As for those in the non-industrial countries...well, umm...about them...see, there's really no place...er...no way to....well, anyway, it's designed for Americans.


Who else is putting out this message?

The ALIENS!!!

Both the ones doing the abducting and "secret schooling" and also the ones being channeled, such as "The Nine". And who was behind the NINE?



Try to pay attention.



THE SAME FREAKING PEOPLE WHO WROTE THAT BOOK.



It's really clear to me what's going on here. Too bad you won't be reading any of it.

[Cosmic Cowbell]

Not sure whether I should be following DE's "Shoe" or OSR's "Gourd" at this point (an obscure "Life of Brian" reference)...however, I do know at this point what made Mr. Cannon ill.

If you can't remove my name, at least be good enough to inform your readers that I have changed my tune. ~ Martin Cannon

It's the least you could (and should) do.

Good luck with your project DE...

[philipacentaur]

CDenicker wrote:

> As a host for Parascope's conference room, The Grassy Knoll, I research
> topics for discussion and present them for discussion in an open format on
> Friday nights at 9-11pm est. On Friday, 9/19 we will be discussing The
> Controllers, A New Hypothesis of Alien Abuction by Martin Cannon. An
> excerpt of the paper follows:

> His research is extensive and his hypothesis is well worth consideration.
> I will provide the article and bibliography upon request.
> Email me at PSCP A...@aol.com.

How kind of you, sir or Ma'am, to distribute copies of my COPYRIGHTED
writings. Why is it that my "fans" inevitably turn out to have the
ethics of snakes?

As the author of "The Controllers," my comments may be appropos here. I
disavow that work. Its central thesis is unproven and probably false.
After ten years of looking, I have yet to meet any claimant of mind
control or alien abduction who has presented persuasive evidence that he
or she (usually it is a she) has been assailed by anything other than
the demons within his or her own mind.

Furthermore, I am sick and tired of being constantly attacked by cranks
and crazies. I've been called a "spook" more often than has E. Howard
Hunt -- a fact which convinces me that the sort of people who take works
like "Controllers" to heart are usually mentally ill. You need merely do
a Deja News search on my name, and you will see many outrageous lies
told about me. No human being should have to put up with that sort of
nonsense.

In order to set the record straight, I will attend the symposium on the
19th. I will explain at length why the "Controllers" hypothesis is
faulty -- and has, in fact, done great psychic damage to impressionable
individuals. I will further expose as fraudulent and/or psychotic many
of the people who have publicly claimed to be victims of "mind control."

I'm presuming, of course, that Mr. or Ms. Denicker will not exclude from
the discussion the author of the work being discussed.

--
Google Groups link

More of the same, but I'm interested in finding out if Cannon ever did speak at whatever symposium this was on -- I assume -- September 19th, 1997.

[philipacentaur]

Also:

Homesteadr James Vallaster wrote:

> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:24:37 +0100
> From: Robert DeFord <c...@earthlink.net>
> To: jhda...@a-albionic.com
> Subject: Hi there

> or this...?

> [Yes, we have followed both Emory and Martin Cannon's work
> closely]

(Work by Cannon snipped)

The preceding post in this thread, about the RMA, caused me a little bit
of pain.

In the first place: It was posted without my permission. Not that such a
concern is likely to matter to you militia maniacs: Plagiarism is as
common as patriotism in far-right fringe circles -- as anyone would know
who familiarizes himself with the works of John Grace ("Val Valerian"),
the compiler of the "Matrix" and "Leading Edge" rip-off journals.

In the second place: The piece was posted, for some reason, without
formatting -- that is, without paragraph returns.

Third place: The piece apparently came by way of A-Albionics, a
right-wing anti-Catholic group of which I do NOT approve. In fact, I
have nothing but disgust for the entire plot-spotting right --
particularly for the modern "Freikorps" movement, which goes by various
misleading names, such as "the militia movement" and the "patriot
network."

I am on the left. I want nothing to do with the conspiracy-crazed right,
and you should want nothing from me. Certainly your need for
inspirational literature can be met by the latest offerings from Carto,
Cooper, or DOCTOR Linda Thompson. You don't need to quote me -- at least
not approvingly. Approval from anyone on the neo-Birchite Right is
something I have to explain shamefacedly when conversing with DECENT
people.

Look, you guys have plenty to occupy your time: Swilling beer, shooting
guns, cleaning the trailer park, begatting pure Aryan offspring,
examining your dollar bills for yet more signs of the Beast, scanning
the skies for UFOs and black helicopters... Why, the days are just
FILLED. You really don't need to concern yourselves with anything I
write.

While I would never seek to speak for Dave Emory, I suspect that he may
harbor a slightly similar attitude.

Alas, many right-wingers have embraced an immature piece called "The
Controllers," which I wrote back in my twenties. This unwanted embrace
is one reason why I now deeply regret having written that thing, and
have asked everyone on the world-wide web to STOP making it available.
(Predictably, the only people who have ignored this request are those
happy plagiarists on the Right.)

All that said, I'd like to mention that a very angry private e-mail was
sent to "Homesteadr," who originally posted the RMA piece to
misc.activism.militia. He apologized for posting without permission. And
he apologized fair and square, without the usual rationalizations. A
nice show of decency.

Maybe one day his fellow Rightists will follow suit.

Google Groups Link

[Dreams End]

Well, who wins that particular prize? I don't...but does the Cowbell?

I have yet to meet any claimant of mind
control or alien abduction who has presented persuasive evidence that he
or she (usually it is a she) has been assailed by anything other than
the demons within his or her own mind.

So neither phenomenon is true from his perspective.

His mention of Val Valerian is telling. Valerian, Lear, Doty, etc...all part of the military intelligence community in various ways and not simply militia nuts. And I'm pretty sure they incorporated some of the material coming from Paul Bennewitz who was, in turn, being fed disinformation from the Air Force via William Moore. One big circular, disinfo gangbang.

In other words, there is ample proof that the Air Force and CIA were involved in creating disinformation. We simply don't have proof of exactly what the purpose of that disinformation was. And while I have begun documenting the ties between UFO groups fascist groups in my "Nazis from Outer Space" series, and I'm certainly not the first to do so, it is clear that it's not simply a bunch of beer swilling yahoos making this stuff up.

Cannon's book is out there...folks can judge for yourselves. The reason I have always liked it is that it does not rely on government insiders and all that crap. The MKULTRA stuff is accurate and based on the documents. The speculation in the book is easily discernable as such and not given as "revealed truth" and is based on noticing a lot of interesting connections among various players in the UFO field, etc.

I am starting to get a lot of "interesting" links into my blog. I'm very well aware of the nature of many of those who delve into this material. Anyway, I stand corrected that he did not actually repudiate his own material. I thought he was pulling a Corrydon Hammond and simply refusing to be involved anymore. If anyone finds an account of that symposium I'd love to read it.

[Onesmartrat]

Man all these questions. Usually when someone asks me this many questions my response is:"What are you, a cop?"

Dad is Indian, "Full blooded" as if that makes any difference. I am a mongrel tho.

Born in Tassie.

The whole event took a minute or two OSR, and has more in common with a DMT flash in many ways. The buzzing and "Cartoonland" (anyone who has had DMT should recognise that place) aspect of it, specifically.

But if it wasn't for the almost telepathic info that the old fella told me, and then repeated on the phone word for word, I would have probably called it sleep paralysis.

You should know that in your story, what happned to you and your subsequent memory and understanding of it based on that memory WAS ENGINEERED.

Probably only by me tho.

No one can tell another what their own truth is ...only one can point in certain drirections and advise "look here" based on their own experience and as this whole Monarch thing hass certain "universals' in regard to the structural dynamics and other common denominators, I can say that I may be a bit further down the road then others and I can say I KNOW things because, perhaps from where I stand on the long path of No Return, I can see things and know what I see ('see' being not limited to sight) is as true and real as what you describe when you sepak of such mundane and worldy things as your football matchs ...I see them in that same kinda manner, without the gloss and the charade and part of tyhe reason why is because I was trained at the business end of an electric cattle prod to be able to access pure "target information" without any "gloss" or conscious projection put into it ..and as a child I also had this ability up close and in person; I COULD "SEE" THEM AS THEY WERE RIGHT THROUGH THEIR PRETENSE and that is one of the reasons I was "chosen" for the programs I was ...chosen for and so 'finely-tuned' ... and so I have done an aikido flip on them in so many words...using what they taught me to do to them ....brilliant eh? ....and because I can "see" in this manner and I can say to others a little less traveled up this path ...."hey, I know what that is ....been there done that got the t-shirt" and I can help them navigate the path so as to avoid endless pointless traps designed to keep them stuck in looped paradigms and circular programming ....for the path is a very twisted one and illsuionary one frought with sometimes grave dangers, designed by them and forever changing like a chess game in which they move ALL the pieces and you and I are just "pawns' in the game.

Now that actually reminds me of HMW. (BTW Hugh if you are readng this Hi). Smacks of confirmation bias.

I appreciate the time you are taking to read and interpret my story, but I still don't agree, and some of what you are saying seems almost like an attempt to tell me how to think, which never sits well.

I am more interested in what was hiding behind the mantis' costume, tracking it down and eating it myself if you like.

see humans are the highest thing on the cosmological food chain.

We are what decides what spirits or forces are invoked into this physical reality. Maybe a human on a wreck in the middle of the Pacific is not the highest point on the physical food chain, but thats about it as far as the things that try and eat our souls go there is nothing that can do that without permission. Anything from (out there in mindspace)that comes into the world does so through us.

Sure other humans can do nasty things, but that just boils down to a good old fight, you either win or cop a flogging, thats about it.

BTW Aussie Rules football is a game of intense cosmological significance. If we stopped playing it, the world would slip off its access and the sun would go out.

not many people know that.

I appreciate the time you are taking to read and interpret my story, but I still don't agree, and some of what you are saying seems almost like an attempt to tell me how to think, which never sits well.


Well pal, it was YOU who pm'd me and asked me what I thought about your story which YOU linked me to ....I told ya and predicatably you respond like most others who have been this horror would , and I , in an effort to see if there might be a hole in your MC soaked brain, attempt to get through to some small part of you that obviously knows more and is looking for help. Now it's "oh, you're trying to control me and tell me what I think time." Sorry, not playing that one anymore. I need to save my time and efforts for those whose intense desire for freedom has some moderate control over those defensive alters.

You are on your own. I have no time for people who chose the blue pill whislt pretending to chose the red one.


Best of luck.

-OSR

[Dreams End]

Thanks Cowbell for making me dig deeper and Phillip for doing so. This is interesting..it's before the repudiation but how do you repudiate this? It's Cannon talking:

One abductee, I called her Veronica in an article I wrote in UFO Magazine (it's a long and extremely complicated and fascinating case), under hypnosis, and I did not hypnotize her, in fact she is the one who wanted the hypnosis and it was administered by a professional hypnotist. In the 4th hypnotic session she described one of her abductions, which as she dug deeper turned out not to have taken place at all in any kind of Unidentified Flying Object, but in fact took place in a house outside the Los Angeles area.

And of course, we kept zeroing in on the house and its location, and so on and so forth.

Now, I must state directly here that there is some possibility, of course, whenever there is a hypnotized subject it is often stated wants to please the hypnotist, therefore might confabulate details that would fit that hypnotists' particular thesis. I must say that Veronica came up with the CIA thesis long before I ever met her. She was saying that that was just one possibility among others.

It also seems to be a nagging possibility that other abductees that I have read about and talked to have come up with, although they didn't explore it. There is something about the idea of being in contact with alien beings that is extremely attractive to them, and they don't want to give it up very easily.

Anyway, to go back to the hypnotic session she had talked about I won't give you the details of this kind of terrifying session that she underwent in this man's house but, after the session, I found out later she was told under some sort of hypnosis, even though the hypnotist had tried to get her out of it, and she said that she was no longer in trance, but apparently she still was. But I said, "Well, okay, let's drive there."

And we did. And I got a location, we found the location, and she suddenly got very scared and we had to turn back. Well, I later did a little bit of detective work and I found out who lived there. I won't give the name, because there is obviously a certain possibility of lible involved, but I found out that the man who lived in that house was a scientist who worked on the CIA's mind control programs. These programs had projects like ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, MK-ULTRA.

Not only that, while on the way there, Veronica described the interior of this house, including one specific unusual detail that almost nobody has in his living room, and I later found out from somebody who had been in that house, that she described it accurately. Unfortunately, Veronica now says that she can remember nothing of our conversation together and I didn't tape her admission of what was inside the house, so there is no way I can prove this, which is why I am very, very wary of mentioning names, and possibly giving way to a lible suit.

But I will say that for my purposes, and I can't prove it to anybody else, but it has been proved to me that in at least one instance this thesis is correct.
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambon ... tions.html

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that is needed. I don't know why Cannon decided this was no longer a valid piece of evidence...maybe he found out that this woman secretly learned about this MKULTRA doctor, then went with the alien abduction thing to cleverly lead Cannon to the MKULTRA theory? Probably not.

Meanwhile there are other stories in this talk from 1988. Why did he suddenly decide these people were simply delusional? He in no way appears to be a "true believer" in this talk...he understands how these stories sound and merely points to interesting bits of evidence that something beyond delusion is involved.

Another snippet:

And then, according to the some of the people who claim to be mind control victims that I've spoken to, you can be hypnotized into forgetting that you committed the atrocities, and this is actually quite beneficial, because you don't want that sort of thing on your memory, you just won't be able to function. I spoke directly to I can't give his name and I know that it would be very difficult for me to convince your people of the truth of what he said. All I know is that I sat directly across from him in the room. And I met him almost by coincidence, I was interviewing him on another subject and told him I was interested in mind control and he said this had happened to him.

NAVAL INTELLIGENCE

He gave me specific examples of things that occurred with him in the 1960's, how he was put through this sort of program. Much of what he described as to how this not just the mind control, he knew the technology involved, he knew many of the terms involved, he would have to do a great deal of studying in order to have gotten this information. And he talked about the way that these sort of secret missions would be directed out of a Naval intelligence ship, which I knew from other sources to be absolutely true. So I believed what he had to say to me, in other words. And he fingered the Veterans Administration hospital out here in Northridge as one place where they continue to have scientists operate in these capacities. And that was very interesting to me, because I later have, and I just now had an abductee tell me that she had memories of something terrible happening at that very same Veterans Administration hospital.

Again, this is exactly the sort of corroboration that needs to be done.

[Avalon]

Since I was just accused by Whitley Strieber himself of being an agent, I can tell you that it does happen. I applied the same thesis Cannon did to Strieber's own accounts. He didn't like it and suggested I had "an official agenda."

Strieber was very polite when he suggested I might be an agent and I don't harbor any ill will because of it, but that is, in fact, exactly what he said. By the way, as you well know, Strieber himself has all kinds of very disturbing memories of very human abusers based at a nearby air force base -- Dreams End

Dreams End, I was looking around your blog, and some of the latest conversations at Strieber's forum, and don't remember seeing this. Was it private, or is there a link that you'd feel okay giving?

While I was reading some of the postings on Whitley's forum in the past week, these passages by Whitley made my jaw drop:

Because I get spiritual nourishment out of my encounters doesn't mean that I think they are good or understand them or even want to bear them. But who is going to help me, or any of us? As far as I know, nobody. Like all of us, I can either help myself or just suffer. I chose to try to help myself. Maybe that makes me a pollyanna, but at least it doesn't make me feel like I'm a victim. So I have a small measure of control over my experience.

This is how I choose to live my personal journey. Obviously, it might not have any validity for another person. I certainly wouldn't say for a moment that it's the best way, or even a good way or a preferable way. But I have lived with these close encounters most of my life. It feels a little like living under the feet of a testy elephant, frankly, but being too small to ever escape its pacing.

I want a life worth living, and this is what I do to get it.

On one level, I can understand coping mechanisms, and the need or policy of making lemonade when life gives you lemons.

But on the other hand, I come from a context of being pagan, and this just shows me what a great chasm there can be between worldviews.

My beloved and trusted colleagues come from a wide range of pagan traditions and practice. They range from Gardnerians to eclectic Wiccans, from Hindus to Stregones, Reconstructionists to atheists. They have a wide range of experience with and openness to strange stuff, magick, and non-human intelligences. Much of what has been known historically as the actions of gods or spirits has much in common with what seems in modern time to be linked with UFOs and "aliens (I'm in the Vallee camp). They'd be the first to say that the way the gods interact with us is not always explainable.

But I can't think of a one of them (and I've been publicly involved with other pagans since 1988), who would say they got spiritual nourishment from those who regularly hurt them or their loved ones, or even strangers. I just can't. It just sets off a jarringly discordant klaxon for me.

Then Whitley said this later on that day:

Another time, two children playing in the woods saw such a thing, which appeared very close to them. One of the kids just sort of shrugged it off, but the other one could never return to the cabin without being in literal tears of fear. She also had a small wound on the side of her head that took years to heal.

Our lives were full of kids in those days. I was careful to make sure that all the parents read Communion, and understood that something strange was going on up there. Nobody ever said they didn't want their kids to come, and some of the kids told their parents of what they saw there.

http://www.unknowncountry.com/board/mes ... 1173385291

That led to another WTF? moment.

I'm a parent, and I just can't conceive that knowing what was happening as related in Communion (let alone with a kid being traumatised and given a non-healing head wound), that any parent would let their kid
go to the cabin. I'm not one of those people who say that encountering non-human intelligences is de facto a sign of insanity. But letting your kids have play dates somewhere where you know that mysterious scary hurtful thiings are happening seems to me to be parenting that comes real close to criminal negligence.

What the hell is Whitley thinking?

[Dreams End]

I found that blog interesting, too. It was brought to my attention by a journalist friend who I have known for years, and who was witness to a minor incident at my cabin.

Here is the letter I wrote to her after reading it:

I read his blog. It's very provocative. There MIGHT BE a lot of stuff from my childhood, but I am so uncertain about it. I do remember being taken to some horrendous classes at Randolph AFB. Pictures of Jolly West as a young man don't ring a bell with me, but I could certainly remember the face of at least one of the "teachers" at Randolph if I saw it. I have never thought that the name I have for this person, "Antonio Krause" was accurate. However, I do recall that he spoke in an unusual accent--a mix of German and Spanish. Also, we were taken to a school in Monterrey, Mexico, where unspeakable horrors were enacted.

Here is what I believe happened, in essence: During the war, my father was involved in a program to prevent US dollars going to Mexico from the Texas German community, where this money would be used to buy gold to send to Germany. Prior to the war, during the great German inflation, he had been participating in doing this himself, but certainly never for the Nazis.

After the war, he was approached and his patriotism was appealed to, I was enrolled in this program. He did not know what it involved, except that it was important cold war work. I think that he was the victim of Paperclip scientists, who singled us out because of his war work. He did not know that I was going to be harmed, but the stress was so great that my immune system shut down and I was treated in the autumn and winter of 1952 at Brooke General Hospital with gamma globulin injections. I was isolated from other children at that time. (I have my school report card from that year, showing that I was absent for the second half of the first semester.)

What happened was, essentially, a Bluebird-style effort to fracture me and the other kdis into multiple personalities. This "Krause," I believe, had done this for the Gestapo, in order to create children who could be made to be unwitting spies on their parents. The children were tormented in this way, then let go. They absorbed information that could later be 'downloaded' from the hidden personality, with the child's normal personality never knowing what had been done.

However, this fracturing also, in effect, cracked the cosmic egg, leading to contact between the children and other levels of reality. So this was also part of it.

I think that this blogger makes an error in trying to draw lines between mind-control, hoax and contact, because all three must be involved in one way or another. I have never lied or hoaxed anything, as you know, but I have had a lot of trouble both communicating what I remember, and remembering accurately, as you also know.

I think that, when children are subjected to this trauma, whether by some official source or simply by abusive parents, there is always the possibility that they will become accessible to the visitors. I have reason to believe this relating to my understanding of the way perception mediates reality, and how this can be modified, and what happens when that is done.

My impression of the visitors is that they have a very limited ability to contact us, and cannot interact with people who are well-founded in this reality. Shatter that foundation, though, and suddenly the individual is available to them.

I do not think that they are good or evil. I think that they are, if anything, more complex than we are.

It must not be forgotten that I was in quite a battle with the Reagan Administration just before I had my close encounter sequence between October and December of 1985. Specifically, I had published Warday, which had given the lie to the idea that Reagan was pushing that "limited nuclear war is both winnable and survivable." In fact, I had ruined that whole initiative. I was told at the time that Brent Scowcroft was furious about it.

Could it be that they found records of what had been done to me as a child, and decided to try to sideline me as a threat by, essentially, assaulting me in the night in an effort to drive me insane, which nearly happened?

I think that this is a real possibility. However, I also think that the same thing happened that used to happen when I was a child. I ended up in the hands of the visitors, and instead of being driven mad, received the extraordinary personal illumination that has come to define my life ever since.

But the dark side won, too, because my advocacy of my experiences has completed discredited me in intellectual and political circles. I have been effectively marginalized.

I still don't know who this blogger is or what he is doing, though. I am very wary, I have to tell you, because, while this appears to be a sincere effort he is making, one must ask, why has he gone down this particularly obscure rabbit hole? Is it out of personal curiosity, a desire to right a terrible wrong that the United States has done to thousands of helpless children, or does he have a hidden official agenda himself?

and later on:

A little more to say. My concern that the blogger might have some sort of an official agenda stems from the fact that he seems to be concentrating on two possibilities: that I was the victim of a mind control experiment or that I am a hoaxer, with the greatest likelihood that I was the victim of some sort of experiment.

The reason this suggests an official agenda to me is that such an explanation is skillfully dismissive. It is an excellent way of diminishing the importance of the government operation, and also of mooting the notion that contact was involved.

In fact, the government operation was and, I think, is, large and ongoing. The last time it surfaced in the public eye was during the Finders controversy in 1985. Investigation was squelched by the CIA, and I think, for that reason, we can assume that it still goes on.

So, it is no 'experiment.' It is something much larger. And it DOES lead to contact, and whoever is behind this assault on children knows this, and is, I believe, intentionally putting people in harms way by methodically shattering their grip on reality when they are children, then monitoring them and learning from the contact experiences they then have.

http://www.unknowncountry.com/board/mes ... 1171148896

By the way, Cosmic/Jonah...how do you square your contention that mind control has nothing to do with alien abductions with Strieber's own statements above. He says they were running a BLUEBIRD type program on him when he was a kid. I also tracked radiation experiments to the very hospital he was taken to when his immune system collapsed.

Cannon aside...and I never rely on anyone else to make my case for me...I'd say my case looks pretty plausible.

Oh, but man....I'm just getting started...wait till you see what's coming.