Mass Shooting in California

[elfismiles]

Again, from this initial news report from the first post of the first page of this thread:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dCGHJZt9g#t=14m14s

I believe it is Sierra Swartz that is the female witness who seems to have most accurately described, as told to us through this reporter, that she was approached by a black BMW with 2 people inside beginning at around the 14 minute mark.

SEE ALSO the reporters statements about 2 witnesses, one saying driver was shooter and another says passenger was shooter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dCGHJZt9g#t=16m11s

Here is a follow-up interview with her that I've not watched yet...

Shooting Survivor Sierra Swartz Shares Story
18-Year-Old City College Student Encountered Elliot Rodger Friday
Victoria Sanchez, KEYT - KCOY - KKFX Anchor/Reporter, victoriasanchez@keyt.com
POSTED: 07:37 PM PDT May 26, 2014 UPDATED: 09:36 PM PDT May 26, 2014
http://www.keyt.com/news/shooting-survi ... y/26179452


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBiPPeCr1tU

EDIT:

The night of the shooting, Swartz was walking down the street back to her house which was just a block away. That's when she saw the black BMW drive up beside her with Rodger in the driver seat.

"He did it so nonchalantly. He was just driving, he smiled at me, said something and then lifted up like this and just started shooting," she said.

[LolaB]

Here is a fb post from a local:
"So I went to Elementary school with the Santa Barbara shooter. I've known this kid since I was 6 years old. The worst part about this whole thing is that he was so OBVIOUSLY identifiable as a sociopath, posting deranged and frankly terrifying status's spewing hatred against humanity. So much so that many times I would joke with my friends, this kid is gunna snap! We must learn to take these signs SERIOUSLY! It is amazing to me that this individual was left to his own devices. Absolutely sickening. My heart goes out to all who were effected by this horror and I'm ENRAGED that those close to this sad twisted person sat idly and let this tragedy occur (Although I'm not laying blame.) Let us be sure to NEVER take red flags trivially so we can get these people help before it's too late."

[Luther Blissett]

PUAhate temporary tinychat after the shuttering of their forum. There's a lot of praise of Rodger and references to "going Rodger."

Lessons From a Day Spent With the UCSB Shooter's Awful Friends

Erin Gloria Ryan

Tuesday morning, I logged into a chat room full of refugees of the since shuttered PUAHate forum once frequented by University of California-Santa Barbara shooter Elliott Rodger. And I stayed there, silently watching them, for 8 hours. Here's what I learned.

PUAHate, as other outlets have discussed, is an offshoot of the Pick Up Artist community populated by men (and, allegedly, women) who believe Pick Up Artistry to be a sham waste of money not because women are more than "targets" and "prey," but because women are fucking hopeless cunts who can't be convinced to give nice guys a chance. Women, argue PUAHaters, will only go out with good looking alpha males and would never look twice at anyone who isn't a musclebound dreamboat with a six-figure income, and most men will never be those things, and so the world is against them and life is unfair. From an observer's perspective, PUAHate is a group of self-pitying babies who believe they're entitled to women who are much more attractive than they are.

The forum that the group is using as a stopgap between the original PUAHate forum where Elliot Rodger posted and whatever new forum will house them. Participants are able to participate by writing text or by joining in with audio or video. It looks like this:



Over the course of the day, the number of participants in the tinychat ranged from around 10 in the early morning to dozens in the mid-afternoon. And because of character limits on the chat software, the transcript of the day's chat is confusing. In order to make it less so, in the excerpts you'll see below, I've consolidated sentence fragments written by individuals in succession and added punctuation for clarity. Otherwise, the text is as-written.

8:20 AM

I enter the room and into the middle of a conversation that seems like it's about head circumference and jaw surgery. One of the forum members is convinced that if only he goes under the knife to fix his crossbite will any of those contemptible bitches choose to love him.

9:16 am

Members of the forum start giddily reflecting on Rodger's fame and begin encouraging each other to write manifestos. After one PUAhater shared an image of an average-looking woman and told the room that she gets to have as much sex as she wants, one man with an Australian accent and an obviously electronically modified-sounding voice, intoned,

Are you trying to inspire me to shoot up a super market? What are you trying to do? There's only one solution. I'm going to make a bomb. It's going to be a pretty good gig in Australia soon. Thanks ... for showing me the light.
One user, who was contributing via audio, suggested to the members that they should all begin drafting their own manifestos, explaining,

When you post a video on Youtube it doesn't matter what the police say you've got your version of events on youtube before they have their say.
The Australian, seemingly unaware of the other Englishman's audio, added,

I do believe I have the knowledge to kill 100 people. I believe I have the knowledge to kill the entire school. I know that's pretty pathetic, I think.

Go back to my old school, past assembly, 9:00. Chain every single door. Shoot everybody in the assembly hall.
No one responded. Meanwhile, in the text section of the forum,

[9:17 AM]: they say we shount be entitled, hen everyones sex is all on display. isn't that unfair. that they say we dont deserve it then they SHOW US WHAT THEY ARE DOING SEXUALLY. it is like they want this to happen day to day

[9:17 AM]: elliot is an hero
9:24 AM

The conversation is now on Elliot Rodger, the UCSB shooter, and whether or not he was justified in his rampage. What Elliot Rodger felt is stuff that all men secretly feel, the members agree.

I've removed their names because, honestly, fuck these guys and what they want. You'll understand more about why as the day goes on.

[9:24 AM]: 99% of men relate if they are honest

[9:24 AM]: yeah ive noticed the comment sections on this story people arent that vicious towards him. part of it is because he looked okay

[9:24 AM]: who wouldnt want to live in a socially constructed sexual utopia? imo people are waking up

[9:24 AM]: but the other part is men relate to hating women

[9:24 AM]: the socially constructionist view of reality is fundamentally flawed. guys who see this think... oooh wait...i get it now. his reaction was unique but the causes were no different. most men go through what he went through but most react differently. some die, some ignore society, some enslave themselves to society and wife
For a group of people engaged in an unending circle jerk over how hopeless and special and victimized they are, they sure seem to think their victimhood is universal.

9:27 am

This weekend, I made the enlightening mistake of participating in the #YesAllWomen hashtag. I call it a mistake because a depressing number of responses I got for my sub-140 character contribution to the conversation centered around the fact that ELLIOT RODGER DIDN'T HATE WOMEN HE WAS MENTALLY ILL AND BESIDES HE KILLED MORE MEN THAN WOMEN! which is an excuse that it seems gets made a lot whenever the guy (because it's almost always a guy) holding the gun (because it's almost always a gun) is white-looking rather than brown or black-looking. Mental illness. Not terrorism or misogyny or a metastacized perversion of mildly fucked up aspects of American masculinity culture that become massively fucked up aspects when they collide with mental illness or personality disorders. Rodger said he did it because he hates women.

So do the other forum participants.

[9:27 AM]: media doesnt aknolwedge the majroity of males' discontentment with current sexual distopia

[9:27 AM]: its all about HATING WOMEN
How many times do they have to tell us before we believe them?

9:28 AM

The forum members are alternately shaken and giddy over Rodger's fame. Most of them seem a little giddy that an "incel" — and "involuntarily celibate" man — went out in such a blaze of glory. Others will follow, promises one member.

[9:28 AM]: he would have had a boring incel life then died of cancer without reference to "this". without ever leaving a mark or a wikipeda and go on just like it had in the past.he is famous 4 ever now.

guys i bet you this will happen more times in 2014. others will do it. promise
9:37 AM

More self-aggrandizing manifesto talk.

[9:37 AM]: you NEED a manifesto or video or it's worthless

[9:37 AM]: this time there was major manifesto. old killers didnt do much in that regard. police censor and withhold killer motivations to avoidf public panic. its good that the reality is coming out to society in a very raw way
10:02 AM

Some forum members think the UCSB shooter was out of line. Others can totally see why he did it. After all, his sister was having sex.

[10:02 AM]: the most chilling part is eliots comments about his sister being fucked. too real. pussy envy. his lack of sex paled in comparison to wanting what others had paraded around.
Simply existing = "parading around."

10:05 AM

First reference to "going Elliot."

[10:05 AM]: if you are here after 31, consider going elliot. day 31 of may. thats the deadline

[10:05 AM]: guys. manifestos are currently being drafted by men out there

[10:06 AM]: if you are here in june, just off it

[10:06 AM]: dont think this is the the last. men realize they have nothing to lose

[10:07 AM]: i dont know why divorced men dont go on rampages

[10:07 AM]: that blonde was a total bitch but father claims she is a nice girl

[10:07 AM]: because older men get called old pervs, like george sodini

[10:07 AM]: *started a YouTube-video: Elvis Presley - It's Over..*
George Sodini is a cowardly fuck who, in 2009, killed 3 women and injured at least ten others when he opened fire on a gym in Pennsylvania.


Gunman Murders Gym-Going Women; Misogynists App...
Read more
He was mentioned — with praise — seventeen times by the PUAHate participants during the time I lurked.

11:04 AM

For much of the day when they're not talking about writing manifestos or debating the "aspie"-ness of Elliot Rodger, they're rating pictures of women who they feel don't deserve the sexual attention they get or swapping pictures of what they refer to as their "oneitis," or the girls they have crushes on above all those other ugly bitches who don't deserve to be fucked.

[11:04 AM]: she doesnt weigh that much but shes only 5.3"

[11:04 AM]: women under 5'5 shouldnt be above 100. i fucked an escort who was 5'5 120 and i thought she was fat. i realized women withotu clothes are much uglier than with clothes

[11:04 AM]: yeah

[11:04 AM]: legit

[11:04 AM]: i see most women as some skinnyfat dude with a pussy. they are just subhumans acting liek they are the shit

[11:05 AM]: thats why cfnm porn is so legit

[11:05 AM]: lol
At one point, the ponder the merits of sleeping with "black chicks." Because they're "easy."

11:24 AM

The members of PUAHate start to Get Serious about whether or not it was okay that Elliot Rodger murdered those people.

[11:26 AM]: thats why one could argue that what he did was commendable

[11:26 AM]: No you cant argue that

[11:26 AM]: That's a ridiculous argument

[11:26 AM]: only an aspie would

[11:26 AM]: what he did didnt benefit him

[11:26 AM]: His suffering was voluntary to a degree. He did not suffer physically

[11:26 AM]: its not commendable lol, losing a daughter is worse than being incel wtf

[11:26 AM]: nobody wants to suffer. he didnt choose to suffer

[11:27 AM]: OBJECTIVELY WHO HAD A BETTER LIFE ELLIOT RODGER OR THE GIRLS HE KILLED. THE ANSWER IS THE GIRLS. SO WHY SHOULD SOCIETY NOT FEEL WORSE FOR ELLIOT

[11:27 AM]: There are many arguments but the best ones are that 1) His actions did not ease his suffering 2) His actions were not aimed at those that made hmi suffer

[11:27 AM]: if elliot had grown up as a good looking guy, he wouldnt have gone insane in the first place

[11:29 AM]: If he killed some girls who rejected him in a totally harsh way and made him feel miserable maybe I could begin to understand

[11:29 AM]: SORORITY GIRLS ARE NOT 'RANDOM' WHEN U JOIN A SORORITY U ENTER INTO OPPRESSION OF INCELS
12:04 PM

On virgins:

[12:04 PM]: never get emotionally attached to women who aren't virgins

[12:04 PM]: the thing is where do you meet virgins. if you're out of high school social circle, finding a fit virgin is impossible
12:24 PM

One forum poster posts a link to screencaps of some of Rodger's first posts to PUAHate, explaining that he thinks Rodger was trying to enlist forum members to join in his massacre.


12:39 PM

The men discuss how to attain the affection of the girls of their dreams.

[12:39 PM]: i just want my oneitis to fucking gobble on my dick like the little slut she is

[12:39 PM]: rape her

[12:39 PM]: I know this guy who got rejected for not having a 90° gonial angle.

[12:39 PM]: rape is low inhibition, DOM and alpha. its the ultimate DOM move

[12:40 PM]: what's your rape count

[12:40 PM]: rape is pretty beta

[12:40 PM]: if ur havent raped someone by age 22, ur prob a truecel [celibate] for life

[12:40 PM]: not rape rape, but date rape

[12:40 PM]: Not DOM enough

[12:40 PM]: date rape is the behavior of masculine blacks, and very alpha

[12:41 PM]: who is gonna be the next elliot rodger on this chat? i nominate greg
12:42 PM

I am in a hotel in Washington, DC, and my boyfriend is taking a bath, reading. I barge in, demanding to know if all men are terrible, eyes blazing. He tries to calm me down, but I am upset.

I leave the bathroom in a huff.

1:00 PM

[1:00 PM]: why can't i fuck a virgin 16-18 year old. i am entitled to this or else i will go rodger

[1:00 PM]: yeah women peak before they becom elegal

[1:01 PM]: girls peak at 16-21. after 21 it's all downhill
1:21 PM

It's a strange feeling, being simultaneously afraid and annoyed and enraged. But that's how I felt for most of yesterday, because of frequent stretches like this:

[1:21 PM]: how many of you here ever thought about committing mass murder?

[1:21 PM]: yeah. just dont have access to guns in the uk. even the police just carry batons

[1:22 PM]: if i tried pulling off a massacre, my kill count would be lower than elliots
2:37 PM

The gang discusses rejection by sluts, and how sleeping with one man means that women should be sexually available to all men. It's only fair.

[2:37 PM]: rejection makes me angry cause this girls a slut for other guys

[2:37 PM]: just play it off like u dont care

[2:37 PM]: rejection use to make me angry to but i got over it

[2:38 PM]: if insults make you angry, you're narcissistic and insecure and yes you can be both
3:27 PM

The boys reminisce fondly about George Sodini.

[3:27 PM]: remember goerge sodini? what if elliot met george sodini

[3:27 PM]: the great sodini
Throughout the day, PUAHate refugees — and I hesitate to call them that, because a sense of alienation that conflicts with their respective realities is central to their identity and by agreeing that they're outcasts, I'm somehow reinforcing their insistent victimhood mentality, but fuck it; I'm tired — referred admiringly to mass killers and rapists with the sort of admiration that functional members of society reserve for professional athletes or pop stars. Sodini, Lanza, the Boston marathon bombers, Richard Ramirez. They constantly contradict themselves. On one hand, no one understands them and they are social outcasts. On the other, mass shootings are just the story, told over and over again, of One Brave Man who dares do what every other man is thinking but dares not try. They obsessively swapped numbers that were made up and didn't matter — Height, "lay ratios," rating scales for other humans, skull circumference measurements, millimeters of chin recession, neck circumference, number of women slept with, number of virgins slept with, angle at which the erect penis meets the groin. I was actually surprised that it took until 1:49 PM before they started comparing dick length and girth.

It sort of boggles my mind, at this point, that most women go through life simply hoping to have control over their own bodies, and that these fuckers feel entitled to not only themselves, but to other people. To an audience. To a platform. They exist, therefore we must all pay attention to them, like screaming infants.

But despite the fact that many of the PUAHate forum participants could probably benefit from some therapy, Elliot Rodger and company aren't the mentally ill outliers that the media (and the NRA) depicts them as. They're much more common than we want them to be. They're capable of being functional members of society — hell, Elliot Rodger was able to talk his way out of a property search that would have thwarted his mass murder plans before they even began to play out. Part of being a woman is the slow realization that some men, for no discernible reason, are always going to hate you. And you have no way of knowing who they are until they open their mouths, or open fire. Or sit as a fly on a wall in a chat room, invisible, female, and hated.

[elfismiles]

Elliot Rodger's Ex-Roommate Reveals What It Was Like to Live With the Troubled Man
By ABC NEWS | Good Morning America – Thu, May 29, 2014 5:53 PM EDT



The former roommate of Santa Barbara killer Elliot Rodger said today he had a "bad feeling" while living with Rodger and should have taken the "opportunity to help" his troubled roommate.

"I felt that this was someone who needed help and he had put himself in a position where he couldn't help himself and that puts it on the community to help those who can’t help each other," Chris Rugg, a junior who is a film major at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told ABC News.

"I had my opportunity living him when I knew things were up that I could have called in and it was my opportunity to help and I didn't," Rugg said.

Rugg said he moved out of the apartment he shared with Rodger and another male student last June because he was "getting really uncomfortable living there."

Looking back at Rodger's deadly rampage, Rugg said he saw all of the warning signs that something wasn't right. Even still, "I just didn't want to put myself out there when it mattered," he said.

Among the six people that Rodger killed were his two current roommates and a guest who was visiting them.

Rugg said his roommate informed him that he believed Rodger had a firearm because he could hear a gun "clicking."

"I didn't hear the clicks, but he said that he would click the gun over and over and the way the room is set up you could see the silhouette of everything that's going on there."

In his manifesto, Rodger referred to Rugg and another roommate, Jon, as "nerds" who were "friendly and pleasant" to live with.

Rugg said the trio were matched as roommates at their apartment complex after filling out a worksheet about their personalities.

"I guess we were the quiet apartment," he said.

Rodger took them up on social invites for meals or gym time but after the fourth or fifth time, he stopped, Rugg said.

While his roommate was a man of few words and seemed to be eager to avoid conversation, Rugg said he heard him having what he presumed to be telephone conversations from his bedroom that got "angrier and louder."

"There was a lot of just frustration for how he was not having a good time at school and how no one seemed to want to hang out with him, and it just got more and more serious," Rugg said.

Elliot Rodger's Previous Attacks on Women, Couples

When Rodger wasn't in his bedroom, Rugg said he would occasionally go out for the weekend.

"Everything that he dreamed of, this was when it was going to happen," Rugg said. "The Isla Vista culture is very much focused on going out, having a party and taking a girl home with you and stuff like that, so I can understand it hurting and making him feel lonely if it doesn't work out, but not quite to the extreme that it was taken."

When Rugg found out his former roommate was behind the Santa Barbara carnage, he said he sadly wasn't surprised, and hopes others can learn from his experience.

"I realized that if I am not surprised that this is something he would have done then why did I not say anything?" Rugg said.

"For situations like this, it’s a community’s responsibility to help these people before something like this happens," he said. "And in Elliot’s case I guess we failed, but if we take from this and move forward, hopefully we can identify these people before anything happens in the future."

http://gma.yahoo.com/former-roommate-sa ... ories.html

[justdrew]

I'm not clear on who Rugg would have said something to.

before he was 18 his parents could have sent him "somewhere where he could get the help that he needs" (and he needed more than a pepsi). but as an adult, the only option would have been law enforcement sending him to a psych ward for a 3 day hold. but he could behave himself when needed, so it probably wouldn't have done much, maybe it could have lead to longer term counseling, but that seems a slim hope.

[Searcher08]

I think there are a couple of trends worth mentioning.
One is that there were many people who had seen very clear 'warning signs'. There were sets of people like school mates, roommates etc who could have said something but didnt. Then there were other people (like parents and therapist(s0 who DID communicate to authorities.
The other is that the system for dealing with potential mass murderers in California seems to be much more lax than in the UK, with a very short committal / observation time and that there is no connection between one's mental state and the right to buy weaponry.

[jlaw172364]

Eh, with regard to warning signs, ER was clever enough to keep much of his negative emotions to himself. Plus, lots of people are sexually frustrated and say angry, vitriolic things, but they don't actually act on them. To me, the years of playing video-games uninterrupted was way more damaging; he never really developed any social skills. And people considered immersion in a virtual world with no human interaction "normal" enough to not have interventions. Social interactions with members of the opposite sex isn't analogous to a video-game where you push a few buttons to get your way.

[Iamwhomiam]

jlaw, much of what you write I not only disagree with but leads me to believing I really don't like you. Perhaps if we met in person I could feel differently, but this will most likely never happen.

You project your own feelings into what you suppose of others far too often, I mean, for a lawyer.

FIrst, we know next to nothing about ER's so called mental illness aside his father's admission that he was at some time in his early childhood diagnosed with Asperger's, and we all know there are many aspects to this affliction. I tend to believe the label "Asperger's" was used rather than "sociopath," as the latter would not be as socially acceptable.

Eh, with regard to warning signs, ER was clever enough to keep much of his negative emotions to himself. Plus, lots of people are sexually frustrated and say angry, vitriolic things, but they don't actually act on them. To me, the years of playing video-games uninterrupted was way more damaging; he never really developed any social skills. And people considered immersion in a virtual world with no human interaction "normal" enough to not have interventions. Social interactions with members of the opposite sex isn't analogous to a video-game where you push a few buttons to get your way.

Playing video games spared him from social interaction, yes, that's true, as it would anyone seeking such interactions. But he never sought such interactions; he just bemoaned the pain of his fantasy being unfulfilled. He lived a one-sided life, the one he either chose or the one his illness or his psychopathy created, just like any video game allows most to experience momentarily.

Regardless, his writings show most clearly his incapability of perceiving the emotions of others, a clear sign of sociopath behavior.

His misogyny also fits his being a sociopath, once again being all one-sided.

edited once:

removed redundant word from last sentence

And to add this:

Someone who is incapable of social interactions due to the profound or subtle effects they suffer from having a mental illness can never develop any, regardless the environment, no matter how wonderfully they've been parented.

[Nordic]

I think that fps video games are a common theme in these mass shooters. Also psych meds.

Having just watched my son literally get addicted to a first person shooter game, I have concluded that developing male minds should not be exposed to these things.

That shooter in Norway had that same issue. The Rodgers shooting reminds me a lot of Brevik.

Boys everywhere are getting addicted to first person shooter games. And I mean literally addicted. These games utterly take over their lives and they lose all interest in all other activities. Just like drugs. They grow more aggressive. And when (or if, in most cases because most parents just let them keep going) they scream like banshees and go through withdrawals.

It's fucked up.

If you're an adult and your mind is basically done developing, do what you want. But kids need to be ripped away from these things and get rehabbed. I'm not joking or exaggerating.

[Zombie Glenn Beck]

Im going to make a snap judgement and say that your kids arent going to grow up to be mass murderers.

[jlaw172364]

@Iamwhoiam

You don't like me? Lol. Why would you even bother writing something like that? I see that as nothing more than yet another manipulative attempt to get me to rein in what I write.

[Iamwhomiam]

I care about fairness and truthfulness. You seem to ignore his mental illness limiting his ability to interact with most others, men and women.

Besides that, your reading comprehension is deplorable for one whose profession demands proficiency in interpreting the spoken and written word.

Ignoring the rest of my comment serves to stifle discussion jlaw, wouldn't you agree?

I have no desire to stop you from sharing your views, why do you not continue the discussion by addressing points I raised about your conclusions about ER?

I find much of what you write amusing, though that's surely not your purpose for sharing your thoughts.

edited once to add third word to 1st sentence.

[82_28]

@Iamwhoiam

You don't like me? Lol. Why would you even bother writing something like that? I see that as nothing more than yet another manipulative attempt to get me to rein in what I write.

Write what you want. Iam is an actual victim and he is explaining his standpoint. It is a full on personal and gut wrenching issue for him. Write what you want but he is writing from the opposite side of the prism.

[Searcher08]

A couple of years ago I dated a woman with teenage children. They were pretty good kids - fun, quirky and very observant. Their Mum banned them from social media, but allowed them occasional fps games (I was amazed at how expensive they were... and how utterly incessant the boys were about HAVING to have not just the game but the 3-DVD extra Special Edition = a weeks wages for their Mum. When they spoke it was as though their very identity was threatened if they did not have it)

The effect? During the period they played this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9fSkcAYyZ8
consistently, for several hours after it, they became withdrawn, monosyllabic. The worst thing was their eyes - they went from their normal sparky/cheeky to a cold sullen 'lights on but no one is home'. During this period, their only interactions with each other seemed on the verge of instant violence.
Their 'energy' was vile - I didn't want to go within ten feet of them.

I think that fps video games are a common theme in these mass shooters. Also psych meds.

Having just watched my son literally get addicted to a first person shooter game, I have concluded that developing male minds should not be exposed to these things.

That shooter in Norway had that same issue. The Rodgers shooting reminds me a lot of Brevik.

Boys everywhere are getting addicted to first person shooter games. And I mean literally addicted. These games utterly take over their lives and they lose all interest in all other activities. Just like drugs. They grow more aggressive. And when (or if, in most cases because most parents just let them keep going) they scream like banshees and go through withdrawals.

It's fucked up.

If you're an adult and your mind is basically done developing, do what you want. But kids need to be ripped away from these things and get rehabbed. I'm not joking or exaggerating.

[jlaw172364]

"You seem to ignore his mental illness limiting his ability to interact with most others, men and women.

No, actually I didn't "ignore it." But you know what, plenty of people with mental illness manage some level of interaction, and work on improving on it. This guy was in therapy for years. Guess those therapists couldn't detect anything about where he was headed?

"Besides that, your reading comprehension is deplorable for one whose profession demands proficiency in interpreting the spoken and written word."

Again, another batch of insults. One thing you'll notice, I tend to not bother with making personal attacks. Tell me how my reading comprehension is terrible. Because I didn't draw the same conclusions as you?

@82_28

"writing from the opposite side of the prism."

Opposite side? What on Earth are you talking about? Iam is a "victim" and I'm somehow an oppressor? Lol.

"Ignoring the rest of my comment serves to stifle discussion jlaw, wouldn't you agree?"

No, actually I wouldn't. There's no rule that says I have to write a response to everything some stranger writes on the internet; nobody responds to 90% of what I say in case, so I don't see why I should be held to some artificial standard that nobody else holds themselves to.