Richard Clarke calls for "closed Internet"

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Postby FourthBase » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:47 pm

Whatever 11:11, you're clearly an asshole. My advice to you and others: Don't violently resist. If you violently resist, the cops have a right to subdue you. You do not have the right to violently resist. They aren't required to tackle you, because that puts themselves at unnecessary risk. A taser is quite reasonable in that situation. Note: A taser is NOT reasonable when you're already subdued.

Anyway, this thread has gone way off topic.
Thank 11:11 for derailing it.

What was the original topic?
Oh yeah, anonymity.
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the Internet can absorb energy

Postby slow_dazzle » Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:07 am

and it might stop people from actually doing something rather than only talking about stuff. I listened to Dreams End on a very recent radio interview yesterday and that point was put across by either DE or the interviewer. However, the Internet was not dismissed as a useful tool by either of them and I also believe it has great potential.

Equally, it has a downside and one that serves the same purpose as teevee, mass spectator sports and other distractions; it serves to deflect energy towards activities that don't actually get us any further forward. The Internet is also a very good way of sowing disinfo. A good example is the skewing of the 9/11 debate to the pointless, circular question of CD.

Another benefit of the Internet to the PTB is it provides huge amounts of information about what people are actually thinking on any given issue. Tin foil hat time but bugger it, I'm going to say this anyway and be damned.

I have long suspected at least two of the big liberal boards were deliberately set up to maintain the myth of an alternative to the Republican Party. It is no accident that at least one of these boards insists on support for Democrats (I think that's correct) as a condition of membership. So right from the start the parameters of the debate are constrained. I think that might be deliberate and it might serve the purpose of absorbing debate within those parameters rather than allowing it to spill out into activities/debate that is not in the interests of the Democratic Party (for which read the status quo...) It also provides enormous amounts of intelligence, and that's what it is, on how people are responding to whatever policy initiative is being proposed or tested. Damned useful to know what people think on any given issue, isn't it? Nice to know if the bait has been taken...and if people still cling on to the notion that the Dems will kick ass if only they get into power.

Both boards reek of Tavistock Institute-type "Civilised disagreement provided one doesn't go out of the liberal tent" and the sort of outright challenge to the status quo that is needed is firmly discouraged. For example, support for a third party. It is no accident that debates on 9/11 are relegated to a fire pit on one of the boards. It's not difficult to see why debate on the massive anomalies surrounding 9/11, on a board that has direct links to the Democratic Party, would be discouraged.

Another biggish board has allowed the "no planes" debate to become a central plank in their ongoing debate on 9/11. So there is a focus on technical discussions that are going to lead nowhere. Whether the skewing of the debate towards the "no planes" concept is deliberate isn't all that relevant per se. The fact that such a debate is ongoing serves to confirm the point that the Internet can be both useful as well as being a source of distraction from the real issues.

And the PTB would have to take control of the entire www: Usenet and e-mail, as well as the 'net although the person proposing a closed Internet (such as Internet2) probably means the whole system.

I think it is in the interests of the PTB to keep the incessant babble going so energy is dissipated into a myriad of unconnected debates. True, some of the debate is starting to coalsesce around the central theme of the system is rotten. For the most part the 'net (and the Newsgroups) is a dazzling array of distractions, a sewer of porn (not erotica coz that's something entirely different to scummy prOn) and a great way to sow disinformation where it both gets to the maximum number of people and has the greatest potential for taking root.

The www is both useful to the PTB and a threat. Maybe it has now reached the point where the threat posed by the free flow of information is starting to outweigh the benefits of being able to sow disinformation and gather intelligence on what people are thinking. (Mind you, it would be stretching it a bit to regard some of the babble that goes on as "intelligence" :roll: )

If there is a move towards a closed Internet it is reasonable to infer that the boot is coming down. So watch the debate closely folks.
On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.

John Perry Barlow - A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace
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Postby orz » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:08 am

water wrote:
Nothing anonymous can change the world, can it?


awesome question

It can change the internets:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Anonymous
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Postby alloneword » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:58 pm

water wrote:...eehhhhm...

You mean nuclear plants are online hackable? Thats crazy. Is that true? I would have thought critical systems like that werent part of the internet to begin with, why even put them online?


As a technical aside: Yes, it's true.

The problem is that since many SCADA (Supervisory, Control And Data Acquisition) systems were designed before the internet, their designers didn't consider the possibility of 'outside' threats, since they were originally 'stand alone' systems.

Here's a couple of links that offer an insight to the scale of the problem:

http://www.forbes.com/home/security/200 ... 2hack.html

http://www.digitalbond.com/index.php/20 ... defcon-15/

http://www.dc414.org/download/confs/def ... arajan.pdf


I personally feel that this firmly embedded notion that the internet was, is, or ever will be anything other than a tool of panopticon surveillance with which those who participate in it's use basically add themselves to the 'list' with their seditious utterances is one of the triumphs of the psy-ops world.

I mean, short of painting the word 'dissident' on the front of your house and a big stripy target on your head, could their be a more efficient way of identifying potential 'troublemakers'?
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Postby theeKultleeder » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:55 pm

alloneword wrote:I personally feel that this firmly embedded notion that the internet was, is, or ever will be anything other than a tool of panopticon surveillance with which those who participate in it's use basically add themselves to the 'list' with their seditious utterances is one of the triumphs of the psy-ops world.

I mean, short of painting the word 'dissident' on the front of your house and a big stripy target on your head, could their be a more efficient way of identifying potential 'troublemakers'?


Agreed. But "we" have a space here, our foot is in the door. Just get louder, and LOUDER...

From university basements, to porn dealers, to corporations, to bloggers of every type, to "don't hate the media, become the media."
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Postby 5E6A » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:50 am

judasdisney wrote:...my only Internet access is WiFi via random and disparate wireless signals, I'm off-the-grid, and there is zero chain-of-evidence linking me to any Internet use.


Can you spoof a MAC address? Do you every time you access the Internet? No? Then the letter agency of choice has you correlated to a physical location the second your DHCP negotiation is finished. Sleep tight.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:49 am

theeKultleeder wrote:
alloneword wrote:I personally feel that this firmly embedded notion that the internet was, is, or ever will be anything other than a tool of panopticon surveillance with which those who participate in it's use basically add themselves to the 'list' with their seditious utterances is one of the triumphs of the psy-ops world.

I mean, short of painting the word 'dissident' on the front of your house and a big stripy target on your head, could their be a more efficient way of identifying potential 'troublemakers'?


Agreed. But "we" have a space here, our foot is in the door. Just get louder, and LOUDER...

From university basements, to porn dealers, to corporations, to bloggers of every type, to "don't hate the media, become the media."


Yeah, fuck em, the best way to defend freedom is to act like are free.

Hiding away cos you're scared your opinion will get you targeted guarantees the bastards win.
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