The Death Star is ready-DU BrownShirtSociety

[FourthBase]

Here's video of the scene last night:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5182

so i ask you? what was so wrong with the disruptive tactic of some guy yelling, "hey bill, what happened to building seven?"

how else are they (or we)---who ever they (or we) are and whatever they (or we) believe---to get our issues out there, exept on a live forum that gets pumped out to the world?

the controls are everywhere. even where this video was uploaded, TPTB can take it down... how do you get your message out there?

you all who are critical of these tactics... suggest something more effective?

bill reminded the audience that they were passive listeners... that they did not get a voice... the issues are framed and balanced up on stage...

I believe I started a thread about that a long time ago.
I'll try to find it and bump it, but we could also just start a new thread.

"Suggestions for More Effective Protesting" or something like that.

[FourthBase]

I have to agree. The biggest distinction between the keyboard-speaker/advocates and actual activists like Sheehan and Code Pink are the latter's face-to-face interactions, networking and impact -- the dynamism of which can't be overemphasized as a vital, real communication, especially when contrasted with the tendency for the 'message' of the written word to get lost in the signal's background noise and trivialized or displaced. That's not to say it's an either-or issue (which seems the basis of Sepka's critique) -- just that the put-down marginization and disparaging criticism of participatory activism by stay-at-home forum-writers is incredibly perverse. As is the tendency cited by EiAE re: DU community becoming the very Brownshirt instruments they claim to despise. There's a noteable lack of rigorous analysis, suspician and awareness of how liberals and progressives are targetted audiences, manipulated and exploited by well-organized interests. Probably one of the most vital, important 'lessons' here at RI is learning how to question the context of our understanding and to look behind the facade of media-constructed impressions, to better analyze what's REALLY going on and why. 'Course, sometimes that leaves you questioning EVERYTHING.

The problem is that we're letting the Pink Shirters be the ones who get the attention, and yes their face-to-face interactions are more dynamic...but as face-to-face interactions on live TV they are also the ones who risk humiliation/discrediting of their/our own cause. Meaning, if the choice is between sitting at home and waiting until you have an effective idea for protesting vs. running out to face the perps with an ineffective/counter-productive approach, I'll choose the former. That said, I'm tired of waiting. So I'm going to start a new thread, and I'm going to take suggestions for how to effectively and peacefully "disrupt" a TV show or Q&A, and the next time I see an opportunity for that in Boston I'll be "that guy". Hopefully I won't get tased.

[Doodad]

Hopefully I won't get tased.

Oh yeah,and give up the ONE chance that some mutant thing will happen because of your body chemistry and you could become the next superhero...even bigger that Spidey.

Way to go.

[marmot]

Good One Dood!!!

[jingofever]

I don't see any reason to assume Maher was in on it just because the protesters were behaving exactly as everyone expects them to. If there was a puppetmaster it was Alex Jones and he will probably be interviewing these people on Monday.

[jingofever]

So I'm going to start a new thread, and I'm going to take suggestions for how to effectively and peacefully "disrupt" a TV show or Q&A, and the next time I see an opportunity for that in Boston I'll be "that guy".

There are only two ways: streaking or painting "soy bomb" on your chest.

[FourthBase]

So I'm going to start a new thread, and I'm going to take suggestions for how to effectively and peacefully "disrupt" a TV show or Q&A, and the next time I see an opportunity for that in Boston I'll be "that guy".

There are only two ways: streaking or painting "soy bomb" on your chest.

You do NOT want to see me streak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJwcxUVz6zc

[StarmanSkye]

Fourthbase wrote:
"The problem is that we're letting the Pink Shirters be the ones who get the attention, and yes their face-to-face interactions are more dynamic...but as face-to-face interactions on live TV they are also the ones who risk humiliation/discrediting of their/our own cause. Meaning, if the choice is between sitting at home and waiting until you have an effective idea for protesting vs. running out to face the perps with an ineffective/counter-productive approach, I'll choose the former."

Good point -- It made me recall when I saw the Code Pink activists at the Petreus talk (via PBS), that I was more embarrassed than revitalized, provoked, intrigued or inspired, presumably the intent FOR such public spectacles of outspoken public-protest activism. Some of the Code Pink protesters (one woman in particular) seemed so unsure of herself, unwilling to push the boundary, and compliant to 'authority' to the point of surrendering even before challenged, that it undermined and made a mockery of the disruption, making a VERY confused and ineffective, compromised statement.

So -- Your suggestion about brainstorming activist options is a damn good one -- thanks for making it (and the thread).

But that also reminds me of a pet peeve -- Why in HELL can't 'we' --progressives, radicals, proto-liberals, leftists, social democrats, 'the' opposition, free-thinkers, neo-anarchists, anti-rightists, etc. --
create, fund, subscribe, operate, run a viable REAL News & Programming Nationwide Alternative TV channel, not beholden to the status quo political and corporate mass media culture? That is, beyond the limited reach of local cable-channel venues?

[theeKultleeder]

You KNOW exactly what I mean.

Horowitz style "vast left-wing conspiracy" liberal agenda?

Kult, it's no secret the political backgrounds of many professors drives their "professing."

thinkers have to do to be critical thinkers; suspend belief, step back, observe ALL the evidence, not just some, and conclude, knowing that ones conclusions have as much chance of being wrong as right.

Short answer, if the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when you are being led somewhere you're in trouble. If they don't you may still be in trouble. History proves this truth.

So, ALL professors are bad? You made the "profs" remark in the context of anti-war protesters role-modeling their parents. My conclusion was that you were attacking "progressive" professors. What about the "not-progressive" professors? With the little media attention they get, it's hard to remember the university system is full of them.


Maybe Graduate level work is where students start to specialize underneath a particular authority or school of thought, but the core curriculum in the university system does provide a balanced perspective. You might get a lefty history or literature teacher, but you're also probably going to get a right-wing economics or political science teacher. And then math. You know how political those mathematics professors are.


I don't know Gramsci, but I do know that the Horowitz-paranoia is a strawman set up to demonize an entire movement in the wider intellectual stream of Professorship. It dovetails with the anti-intellectualism right-wing intellectuals pander to their bases with.


If you don't like civil rights heroes, or even minor characters teaching history, you can always go to Liberty University or Pat Robertson's University.


Oh, and if the hairs stand up, maybe you are learning something.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

et in Arcadia ego--

PLEASE change the thread title so we know what it's about. This is important and I nearly missed it.

DemocraticUnderground is loaded with fascist shills whipping up fascist consent by dissing activists. You should've felt the blows they delivered to anyone who brought up General Wesley Clark's war criminal problem as a fake Dem candidate in 2004.

Our airwaves are hijacked by spooks to keep people who tell the truth invisible.

Bill Maher is friends with Ann Coulter. And an ignorant lying fascist shill, too.
He went LAPD on those truthers to save his job again. Scumbag.

[Et in Arcadia ego]

et in Arcadia ego--

PLEASE change the thread title so we know what it's about. This is important and I nearly missed it.

Done deal, hugh; sorry 'bout that, I was hustling out the door this morning when I made this thread and a good name eluded me at the time.

Cheers,
A

[Doodad]

You KNOW exactly what I mean.

Horowitz style "vast left-wing conspiracy" liberal agenda?

Kult, it's no secret the political backgrounds of many professors drives their "professing."

thinkers have to do to be critical thinkers; suspend belief, step back, observe ALL the evidence, not just some, and conclude, knowing that ones conclusions have as much chance of being wrong as right.

Short answer, if the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when you are being led somewhere you're in trouble. If they don't you may still be in trouble. History proves this truth.

So, ALL professors are bad? You made the "profs" remark in the context of anti-war protesters role-modeling their parents. My conclusion was that you were attacking "progressive" professors. What about the "not-progressive" professors? With the little media attention they get, it's hard to remember the university system is full of them.


Maybe Graduate level work is where students start to specialize underneath a particular authority or school of thought, but the core curriculum in the university system does provide a balanced perspective. You might get a lefty history or literature teacher, but you're also probably going to get a right-wing economics or political science teacher. And then math. You know how political those mathematics professors are.


I don't know Gramsci, but I do know that the Horowitz-paranoia is a strawman set up to demonize an entire movement in the wider intellectual stream of Professorship. It dovetails with the anti-intellectualism right-wing intellectuals pander to their bases with.


If you don't like civil rights heroes, or even minor characters teaching history, you can always go to Liberty University or Pat Robertson's University.


Oh, and if the hairs stand up, maybe you are learning something.

Learn about Gramsci; it will be to your benefit.

[theeKultleeder]

Oh, and if the hairs stand up, maybe you are learning something.

Learn about Gramsci; it will be to your benefit.

I still don't see the evil leftist conspiracy that Horowitz does. My review of the Wiki entry on Gramsci indicates that I already agree with him on the issue of "intelligentsia," except I'm not a Marxist.

Now, here you are pushing a guy who called "for a kind of education that could develop working-class intellectuals, who would not simply introduce Marxist ideology from without the proletariat, but rather renovate and make critical of the status quo the already existing intellectual activity of the masses." But let's review this thread:

Post subject: Re: So typical of the Yale mindset...

vigilant wrote:
Quote from article:

"most Americans believe they're more than entitled to their own opinions; they believe that they are entitled to their own facts. Obviously, this complicates public policy debates. "

So typical of the Yale mindset. "Don't you sheeple try to think, you might hurt yourselves, and we all know that hurting you, is OUR job here at Yale...

theeKultleeder
Good spot! I had missed that, but when you put yourself in a Yale lecture hall, the language unpacks into a whole new shade of meaning.

Doodad
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:17 am Post subject:
LOL

You guys slay me. A close look at the articles in that site reveal....ta da!!!!! many which support the views espoused by many here. So,despite being balanced to some extent,it is evil and nasty and bla bla bla bla.

This elitist mindset is so often at work on this board and the hypocrisy is seldom noticed despite my many attempts to point it out.


But go ahead, paint yourselves into an exclusive little corner of self-satisfied legitimization by ignoring all else. THAT'S definitely going to help you find the "truth."

I know your own view on this issue is probably very nuanced, but I fail to see the consistency here.



BTW: Sorry for being off-topic!


******URLs referenced**********

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... light=yale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci

[Doodad]

Oh, and if the hairs stand up, maybe you are learning something.

Learn about Gramsci; it will be to your benefit.

I still don't see the evil leftist conspiracy that Horowitz does. My review of the Wiki entry on Gramsci indicates that I already agree with him on the issue of "intelligentsia," except I'm not a Marxist.

Now, here you are pushing a guy who called "for a kind of education that could develop working-class intellectuals, who would not simply introduce Marxist ideology from without the proletariat, but rather renovate and make critical of the status quo the already existing intellectual activity of the masses." But let's review this thread:

Post subject: Re: So typical of the Yale mindset...

vigilant wrote:
Quote from article:

"most Americans believe they're more than entitled to their own opinions; they believe that they are entitled to their own facts. Obviously, this complicates public policy debates. "

So typical of the Yale mindset. "Don't you sheeple try to think, you might hurt yourselves, and we all know that hurting you, is OUR job here at Yale...

theeKultleeder
Good spot! I had missed that, but when you put yourself in a Yale lecture hall, the language unpacks into a whole new shade of meaning.

Doodad
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:17 am Post subject:
LOL

You guys slay me. A close look at the articles in that site reveal....ta da!!!!! many which support the views espoused by many here. So,despite being balanced to some extent,it is evil and nasty and bla bla bla bla.

This elitist mindset is so often at work on this board and the hypocrisy is seldom noticed despite my many attempts to point it out.


But go ahead, paint yourselves into an exclusive little corner of self-satisfied legitimization by ignoring all else. THAT'S definitely going to help you find the "truth."

I know your own view on this issue is probably very nuanced, but I fail to see the consistency here.



BTW: Sorry for being off-topic!


******URLs referenced**********

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... light=yale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci

I'm afraid I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to education; a mind exists to be opened, not led down a path. That kind of education for me is occupational education, no matter its good intentions, which of course, often pave the road to Hell. And I don't trust "intellectuals," as far as I can throw them because so few seek much beyond indoctrination.

Now, there is nothing wrong with occupational education but it shouldn't try and pose as something else. A guy like Gramsci comes along with a good idea,not a new one of course, but a good one and it gets woven into tapestry of ideology for which it was never meant. They did the same thing with Fanon. And, it pisses me off.

[jingofever]

And then math. You know how political those mathematics professors are.

I've found them to be as political an any other professor.