'Illuminati' as 'deviant adepts'

[streeb]

The Illuminati run the rug trade.

I got a beautiful rug. Really ties the room together.

[teamdaemon]

And if there is no intermediation (priestly or otherwise?), then who does the neophyte obey?

Initiation rites are all about finding illumination and truth within one's SELF, as opposed to priestly intermediation between the Mystery and the masses.

Think for yourself, question authority...

My only beef is when everyone wants to "contemplate their navel" while on hallucinogens and ignores social problems like hunger and homelessness.

Agreed. Contemplating one's navel is is considered very lame and juvenile within the modern gnostic community. I don't hate the homeless. If I did then why would I bother talking to you people? I am not selling you any mysteries. If you're looking for any good shit then look no further than your nearest burning man regional. Or a hippy festival. For a lesson in universal love and oneness then a rainbow gathering would be the place to go. Don't get scared away by the drunk camp, they're there to keep the rednecks out.

[8bitagent]

True, but you're better off being socially managed than you are being initiated into the enlightened and consecrated to the Great Goddess.

I am afraid you are terribly confused. The ruling elite are not matrist. They do not worship a goddess. The feminine element of Christianity has been the target of persecution and extermination for 2000 years.

It's the illuminated ones who are in trouble. People going along themselves might be blind, but people illuminated by an outside force are laying themselves open to being hijacked for the forces of evil.

It sounds like you are a bit paranoid. Being "highjacked" by an ideology of universal love and oneness isn't as bad as you make it sound. Reading the texts is one way. If you really want to feel it I would suggest that you try one of various plant sacraments that are increasingly available, especially if you live in England. I mean cannabis, psilocybin, peyote/san pedro, or ayahuasca. If you are really that worried about being possessed by evil spirits then find a native-born guide to help you through the experience.

Um what? The globalist elite LOVE Goddess worship, and male/female duality. It's all throughout their structures, temples, and staged events.

Again, not to say Goddess worship is bad, on the contrary.

The "Satanic" elite who control the world are a hodgepodge mix of
ancient Egyptian beliefs, Lesser Solomonic rites, Astrology, ancient Hindu beliefs, Hebrew Qabbalism, etc.

Does this mean these are bad, not at all. We know the illuminati controlled Nazis were OBSESSED with Tibet, by way of their Theosopic Thule obsessions.

[8bitagent]

In short, the ancient seers of the Mysteries in Europe and the Levant seem to have accomplished 2000 years ago what many of us have been attempting to do since 1947: figure out who the ETs are, where they originate, how they relate to us, and most important of all, how we ought to relate to them.

...

I contend that it's very possible the entire ET/UFO/etc phenomenon is all part of a millennia long psyops program by clearly non human intelligence whose puppeteered kingdoms and governments for quite awhile. It's all just to fuck with people, in much the same way the CIA or Tavistock has messed with people.

I think there's too much of a connection between ancient Hindu texts, Tibetan mysticism, ancient Egyptian/Sumer beliefs, Theology, etc as well as lesser Solomon/occult/etc beliefs, crop circles, UFO's, contactees/abductees, ley lines and all of that to all be somehow disconnected.

I know it sounds comforting to take a "Disclosure Project" take on it all...oh hey, theyre just curious "space bretheren" from a different planet looking out for us!

When in reality its more likely these beings work through government leaders, dictators, and world elites and arent from some terrestrial planet.

Child kidnapping/sacrifices, events like 9/11 and massive destruction, etc
is all just mere offerings to them I suspect, as well as "spiritual street cred"...esoteric symbolism(like twin towers, pentagon, obelisks, occult corporate sigils) is the gang signs, yo.

[8bitagent]

Exactly--It's the same old baloney: "We're here to help you. We just need to take away your freedom first." Hillary, Rockefeller, Dick Cheney, Charles Manson, some sort of creepy non-humans and 4000-year-old "adepts"...they're all exactly the same to me-- they have a busybody philosophy that involves poking their noses into affairs that are none of their business, i.e. my life. It's the immoral concept of...controlling the lives of other people.

EXACTLY. It doesnt matter if its Bush, Napoleon, Hitler, Mao, Kim Jong Il, Putin, Cheney, Blair, Osama bin Laden, Rockefeller, Kissinger, or the Devil himself...it's all about divide and control.

It's about creating and using Abrahamic faiths as control, its about mass human sacrifices and oppression of the population.

Be it bearded dwarves abducting dogs in pink saucers, or young
East Timor 8 year olds being abducted into world sex slavery for the new world order...the earth itself and the people is merely the petri dish for decadent elites thousands of years strong.

Sounds cliche, but it's all right there. Because I dont care if they come in a tank or a freaking blue spacecraft, humanity doesnt deserve to be blown up in staged terror, sexually experimented on, abducted, shot, raped,
or oppressed. Humanity yearns to be free

People talk about secret occult orders behind government officials, as well as transnational corporate interests. Lest ye be called David Icke or an evengelical, very FEW dare ponder whats ABOVE...at the top of the pyramid.

Call em the Nine, call it Egyptian Gods, call it the Devil...but clearly mere mortal men are not calling the shots in the world. And no, Im not a Christian or of any religion...I just feel that people deserve to be free from oppression.

[8bitagent]

If it were all as PPan says it is...just a personal quest for spiritual awakening (or something), I'm all for the freedom to do such. But I'm seeing all of this stuff in a grand 'cosmic' context, where many powerful entities with ugly agendas have every reason in the world to try to 'snow' people with a bunch of deceptions. I'm certainly on the lookout for that sort of thing. I guess I would echo Morgan's (and Nemo's) concerns-- If they're "benevolent", then why is everything so secretive?

You got it. And too say such things, people accuse you of "oh youre just a close minded Christian".

People really want to hold onto their "were all one big cosmic space bretheren Alice Bailey ascended master flowers and roses fiesta oneness"
new age deception so bad, and think any counter to that is "right wing Christian propaganda".

Its funny how David Icke knows whats going on, yet so much of his base are people...good people too, but they are into all this new age stuff.
And thats fine I suppose, but people should know the origins of these things.

One has to wonder, why were the Nazis and Blavatsky so obsessed with Tibet?

Valle explores the spiritual control component of ET actions on earth in great depth in his book Dimensions. from my reading of the book, i wouldn't take away that he is proposing a system exactly the same as the one supposed to be laid out by the gnostics. for one thing, in certain cases people have been healed and their lives greatly improved through alien contact. also, religions which have come to be accepted worldwide have been started and or propagated through contact which fits the same pattern as alien (he explores joseph smith's visions and the virgin of guadalupe from this perspective). he concentrates on the stories and images or ideas that come out of alien contact, and how these are spread and interpreted in the larger culture. i would recommend this book highly to anyone interested in the topic.

Im not sure how countless thousands of people paralyzed by fear from abductee/contactee experiences is "positive", as much as I will say that
Im sure there's some positive supra-intelligence out there. Just, a lot of times the oceanic onslaught of mostly negative history paints an ugly picture.

Anyways, Valle is right I feel. A lot of religions, and I wont name which ones...which start when a "prophet" channels or comes in contact with "something else"...yeah I dont know if I would say thats a positive start.
Many of the worlds religions seem to have similar origins, and to me it stinks of less than positive intensions.

Btw, for people who think UFOs are "aliens" from another planet, how do folks explain the Mothman era?

[Eldritch]

I've enjoyed Not In His Image also—and very, very much.

Among many other things, I have appreciated Lash's deep insight into predatory, "salvationist" religion and how it has deviated us from the earth and from ourselves.

The idea that suffering is somehow salvific has penetrated this civilization through its false religious beliefs, and is an inherently dangerous concept, in my opinion.

John Lash's discussion about the Archons, and how they have aided predatory religion in deviating us is a critical concept. And, in my view, an essential one in these times.

[rothbardian]

Eldritch--

I have a few thoughts on your comments about "predatory religion". (Hint: I agree with you.) But it would seem to obscure the topic of this particular thread so...see the new thread I have just started, if interested.

I also had a few comments for 8bitagent and John Nemo over there.

Thread title: "The secretive insertion of occultism into Christian culture."

[teamdaemon]

I contend that it's very possible the entire ET/UFO/etc phenomenon is all part of a millennia long psyops program by clearly non human intelligence whose puppeteered kingdoms and governments for quite awhile.

I understand what you're saying and I do get that same feeling about the utter alien-ness and inhumanity of nazis. I guess I just look at them as a bizarre alternative species of human being instead of ETs. I don't really see any reason to suspect ETs. All of the "aliens" I've ever met have been very friendly and colorful.

[Uncle $cam]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the ET/UFO/etc phenomenon as real. At least not at this time. I'm open to the ideal, but that is all it seems to be from where I sit; merely an idea. I'm reminded what Bob Wilson said, in that these matters very well may be but, they seem more to be archetypes within our own minds. Having sd that, I not closed to seeing it different. But at this time, I guess I'm a cold fish.

Has anyone here read the book 'Paradigm Wars': Worldviews for a New Age?

http://tinyurl.com/2vcyqj

Mark Woodhouse is a Ph.D., former Associate Professor of Philosophy Emeritus at Georgia State University in Atlanta and has written an outstanding book, one that even now is years ahead of it's time, and I read it what seems like a decade ago.
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/18 ... ewpoints=1
And he had me hook, line and sinker, up until the very end of this thought provoking and (at the time) ground breaking book. His discussion of systems holism, Thomas Kuhn, science, and other areas including ideals on addiction/recovery/feminism are just cutting edge final frontier stuff on how we have already integrated the new age into our worldviews without ever really realizing it. New age ideals have been enculturared into our linguistics, language and culture. His understanding of exopolitics, the Relativity Theory and Quantum Mechanics on one hand and the Perennialist Philosophy he calls “Energy Monism” on the other hand make a highly integrated and logical as well as spiritually coherent argument, linking mind, spirit, and body (and other levels in the Great Chain of Being) as well as a way to integrate science and spirituality.

But, again, his last chapter, on Earth’s role in the galactic community, where he discusses the evidence on alien presence on Earth, sacred geometry, alien cultures, and motivations etc, sadly, lost me. Which was very disappointing and unfortunate as up until that point I was blown away with his synthesis. And not to say that I have thrown his work out with the bathwater, I haven't. But just don't resonate with the last chapter.

And I have yet to meet anyone who has read this book, I was hoping some RIers had. Sorry if this is off topic, but it seems to fit to me.

[Stephen Morgan]

teamdaemon: I am afraid you are terribly confused. The ruling elite are not matrist. They do not worship a goddess. The feminine element of Christianity has been the target of persecution and extermination for 2000 years.

You tell me that I'm confused
Well I tell you that we're all used
-- "I have no Answers", the Levellers

Used as a food source in the case of poor earth-bound humanity.

If you are really that worried about being possessed by evil spirits then find a native-born guide to help you through the experience.

Being native born myself (in Nottingham as it happens), I think I qualify. If that's not mystical enough for you I'm half-Welsh too. Beat that, boyo.

But if I was to suppress my ego then being overtaken by someoneelse's would be the only possible outcome.

That's what the Mothman Prophecies posits, that it's all hallucinatory, the odd experiences only happen to keep the minds of the percipients busy while their bodies are elsewhere doing other things. That, however, is only a temporary displacement of the ego, the goal of illumination is total suppression and therefore mindslavery.

Jeff: For one thing, Gnostics taught that these entities envy us and feed on our fear.

I'm normally inclined to dismiss the ravings of self-obsessed Gnostics out of hand, but this much is right. The fear of the unilluminated, the adoration of the others.

rothbardian: Proposing a philosophy of elitist control?? Come on. What in the world are some of you folks thinking about??

My thoughts exactly. I don't doubt the abilities of our overlords. I merely doubt their good intent. No system that demands my mental suicide is ever going to gain my willing acceptance.

"They have taken the hearts and minds of our leaders. They have recruited the rich and the powerful and they have blinded us to the Truth, .. Outside the limit of our sight, feeding off us, perched on top of us, from birth to death, are our owners! Our owners! They have us. They control us! They are our masters! Wake up! They're all about you! All around you! "

I love that film.

That's what's going on. There's no binary ruling elite, with a secretive group of sociological priests in combat behind the scenes with a gang of initiatory adepts who only want... what is it exactly that these nice illuminists are meant to be after? Not revealing the truth, or why the secrecy?

nemo: Funny how these losers will sell you this "Super-Galactic_Cosmic-Oneness" pipe dream of enlightenement, yet, for 4,000 years haven't beeen able to produce ONE "enlightened" individual

Reminds me of the part of Bare Faced Messiah, the book about Hubbard, where he brings out his first Dianetic "clear", and the crowd are expecting a psychic, spychokinetic superman free of all impediments. It was just the man behind the curtain. He wasn't impressive.

teamdaemon: They are hiding from the war on drugs. Use your imagination.

I wouldn't need to use my imagination if there was a gang of benevolent adepts working for the betterment of the minds of men.

I guess some people just love being miserable.

I suppose that's why they turn to mystical illumination in stead of activism. Change nothing, merely adapt to your slavery.

8bitagent: The globalist elite LOVE Goddess worship

Have I split the gimbutasites from the Fairhallites?

We know the illuminati controlled Nazis were OBSESSED with Tibet

There was an article in the last Nexus about the evil of the "Dalai Lama", if you're interested. Of course he's a CIA puppet (not Parenti) and his followers with those of Chiang Kai Shek started the Burmese drug trade/CIA link.

Don't think either that searching for illumination within yourself doesn't open you up to outside forces. Yeah, the iniates just want to free you from priestly domination! Just follow this ritual exactly, take this pill and pass on the chain letter and it'll all be fine. There's a reason the left hand pass is "the god within".

Enough for now.

[Joe Hillshoist]

The point Lash wants to make is to distinguish archaic initiatory tradition from priestly social engineering. It's the latter that's a project of "elitist control," not the former.

Exactly. Initiation rites are all about finding illumination and truth within one's SELF, as opposed to priestly intermediation between the Mystery and the masses.

Pan, if what you say is true, how do you account for the blood oaths?

And if there is no intermediation (priestly or otherwise?), then who does the neophyte obey?

Initiation in indigenous communities worldwide has one specific aspect.

Crossing the border between life and death to the afterlife/world of the dead, and meeting ancestors. It has nothing to do with swearing blood oaths to any organisation or system of power. That is a corruption of an inate human process.

In those communities the neophyte's obey their elders, well they respect their alders so they are more likely to listen to what they say.

Those communities are small tho. Ultimately everyone has to look everyone else in the eye. That probably is a difficult thing to apply in a society with as many people in it as ours.

Morgana said:

But if I was to suppress my ego then being overtaken by someoneelse's would be the only possible outcome.

Just shows how little you know what you are talking about. Its not about surpressing your ego, so someone else can control it, but controlling it yourself. Understanding how it works and knowing the difference between indugling it and using it.


John E:

Funny how these losers will sell you this "Super-Galactic_Cosmic-Oneness" pipe dream of enlightenement, yet, for 4,000 years haven't beeen able to produce ONE "enlightened" individual.

Morgana:

This being the work of "deviant" adepts, yes? The "abuse" of iniatory knowledge? So where are all thse straight adepts?

Probably avoiding abusive aggro knuckleheads, and you Morgs.

John E, just cos you haven't met any enlightened individuals doesn't mean there are none. Have you assessed every individual on the planet in the last 4000 years?

What makes you so sure you would understand their motivations anyway? Or for that matter how do you even define enlightenment?

Listening to people who claim to have achieved enlightenmen is a sure way to listen to someone who is full of shit anyway.

I have met a couple of people I would define as enlightened, and they were active as in the activist sense, and they were compassionate and cared about the state of their fellow humans.

They came from old traditions tho, never have met a New Ager who was within several thousand light years of enlightenment.

[teamdaemon]

Initiation in indigenous communities worldwide has one specific aspect.

Crossing the border between life and death to the afterlife/world of the dead, and meeting ancestors.

This isn't necessarily the same as gnosticism. Indigenous cultures didn't have a monster ruling elite persecuting them. The secretive behavior (occultism) is a defense against this threat. That is my view at least. That is my current experience. Elitism is necessary to keep narcs out.

I wouldn't need to use my imagination if there was a gang of benevolent adepts working for the betterment of the minds of men.

Benevolent Adepts: http://www.maps.org

I agree that anybody claiming to be enlightened is probably trying to sell you something. Or screw you.

[Joe Hillshoist]

The technology of indigenous initiations that I've come across seems to be (IMO) the blueprint for gnostic and other occult practices.

[Stephen Morgan]

John E, just cos you haven't met any enlightened individuals doesn't mean there are none. Have you assessed every individual on the planet in the last 4000 years?

I notice a distinct lack of examples.