There's probably no God...

[JackRiddler]

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Au contraire. When people pray to flies and bottletops, they do the same thing they've always done: idolatry; synechdochic self-delusion. Or is it just a way to find a center, find peace with the awe-inspiring universe? I'll get back to you.

Meanwhile, Dawkins has a god he hawks -- a reduction of evolutionary theory that leaves nothing but genes and memes in a zero-sum elimination battle -- and, like most public atheists, a preferred god to attack: the anthropomorphic sky-predator of the Old Testament desert religions. Come to think of it, that's the one I also have the big problem with. He has most definitely received a deserving kill-shot, though it's taking a few centuries to bleed out.

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[Penguin]

Dawkins is also a repulsive dogmatist. Just look up what came of supposed dialogue with Dawkins and Sheldrake - Dawkins hadnt even read the peer reviewed articled Sheldrake had sent him, but instead was planning on doing a character assassination debunking hatchet job. When confronted on why he didnt read the studies, real science, he was like "wtf noob, your a PARAhuman!"

Psychology of the sceptic:

http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormal ... eptic.html

As to god? I wont worship any, besides All. Which, of course, Im a part. "Im the son of god", as it were. I consider myself solely responsible for what I do, thou. I dont pray to any personal entity, but I do send wishes for peoples well being to the planetary synchronism center occasionally, and it works. Sometimes you are called upon to do a favor for someone else by the Central, thats the spirit of the game. Materialist I am not - not since 8 years ago I met the universe face to face.

Theres no god, but there is consciousness and connection.Which some people might call god, and still talk about the same thing. Which is fine with me as long as its fine with them for me to say it this way

[AhabsOtherLeg]

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Au contraire. When people pray to flies and bottletops, they do the same thing they've always done: idolatry; synechdochic self-delusion. Or is it just a way to find a center, find peace with the awe-inspiring universe? I'll get back to you.

It's both, but also neither, from what I've seen. A lot of people don't really seem to notice the awe-inspiring universe. I rarely do. But if their Dad worshipped flies rather than bottletops, and there are real social advantages to worshipping bottletops rather than flies (in terms of jobs, housing, etc.), the boy will tend to stick with the flies, to his own social detriment - because bottletops are the oppressors. And vice versa.

.

Meanwhile, Dawkins has a god he hawks -- a reduction of evolutionary theory that leaves nothing but genes and memes in a zero-sum elimination battle -- and, like most public atheists, a preferred god to attack: the anthropomorphic sky-predator of the Old Testament desert religions. Come to think of it, that's the one I also have the big problem with. He has most definitely received a deserving kill-shot, though it's taking a few centuries to bleed out.

People forget about "The Selfish Gene." They shouldn't. In a way, it was Dawkins' autobiography. He basically stated, early in the game, that he was going to behave like an arsehole, because he believes that everyone else is. He has lived up to that early promise.

And God is certainly taking his time on the dying front. So is religion. We shouldn't be relaxed about it - the death convulsions of real belief are going to be more violent and lengthy than even it's raucous youth and adolescence were.

Buckle up.

[JackRiddler]

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Meanwhile, there's Hitchens, really not so far removed (though he is more famously an asshole than Dawkins, I think Dawkins is equivalent in asshole-substance). Hitchens presents an atheism for neocons, one that singles out Muslims for extra abuse as an internationale of walking bombs, and one he grotesquely ties to support for the Terror War as a necessary move against fundamentalism, although it overthrew a secular Iraqi regime and was presided by a moron who thought he was given a mission from God.

One of my more twisted listening experiences recently was of the Hitchens-Hedges debate, in which it was never clear whether they were contending over the existence of Sky-God and value of organized religion (in which a knife-wielding Hitchens cut the sonorously pontificating Hedges into cutlets in logical terms) or the Iraq war (in which the atheist supported the modern repeat of the Christian crusades and the Jesus guy seemed to agree that the invasion was essentially godless). Goddess help us indeed, if this Bizarroland conflation is indicative of an actual trend.

Christopher Hitchens and Chris Hedges debate the most contentious issue of our time - religion.
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=21538

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[JackRiddler]

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And God is certainly taking his time on the dying front. So is religion. We shouldn't be relaxed about it - the death convulsions of real belief are going to be more violent and lengthy than even it's raucous youth and adolescence were.

I'm a bit more optimistic. The violence, I'm not so sure about. Could be nuclear, right? The length, however, not as extended. (Um, could be nuclear, right?)

No, seriously, I think the next 20 years could as easily bring an international popular cultural consensus to treat each other as though we were all the same species with the same basic natures and desires in life as the more apocalyptic expectations. At the very least, we all seem to share the same single economic crisis and the same fucked up system causing it, no?

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[AhabsOtherLeg]

Well, ok, maybe not more lengthy.

But it's already plenty violent, perhaps more violent than it's ever been, in Africa particularly. I wonder why Dawkins never goes over there to warn them about the dangers of evangelical Christianity, and the fact that God probably doesn't exist. If it's a war against credulousness that he's fighting, he should get to the front lines, or shut up.

No, sorry, he shouldn't shut up. No one should. But touring British and American college campuses selling atheism is like touring army barracks selling weed. They'll buy anything you bring - there's no thought involved. Dawkins is old enough to know better.

And I'm not all apocalyptic or nothing. Honest I'm not. But I fail to see how the oncoming shortages of money, fuel, food, housing, employment, etc. will bring about the longed-for and needed brotherhood of man.

If we give it twenty years, and twenty years are there to be had, you might be right. But it;s going to be a pisser in the meantime.

[8bitagent]

To be honest, 8bit, it is worrying me as well. My beliefs, for what they're worth, are getting dangerously close to those of the Process Church of the Final Judgement - whereby God and Satan and Jehovah are all on the same team, and the service of one is good for the other. Thereby doing the will of Satan - ie. pleasing yourself at others' expense - would be good for God, because it would hasten his inevitable return, or his inevitable sending of Christ (again) to sort the whole mess out. It's the Luciferian thing - as Lenin put it, in political terms, "the worse the better."

EndTime belief, basically. But I don't really buy it.

The Catholic Church is a sucessful fraud, and the Process was a bust - I like to back the winner, so I'm sticking where I am, for the time being.

I must say, if most Christians believe in what I believe in, then they are
not Christians. But I still am. And that's that.

Well we have to go back and think, just going purely from a theological perspective on the early times of Christ and what followed.
From the story of Christ, he's standing up to the elite rulers, money changers, the Devil. If the story is true, Christ is fighting the "new world order elite" at the time, while preaching peace, tolerance, helping people.
I think its also clear there's been a conspiracy to poo poo Magdeline's role with the apostles.

Theologicans and historians have found the ossuaries of everyone from Simon to others described in the road to Golgotha, the 12 stations and elsewhere in Jesus' story. The time period fits, Harod/Pilate/ect.

If THIS is the Christ people want to worship and put as a higher power, then I cannot see this as a negative thing.

It's just when I see what Christianity along with Islam, Judaism, and sadly even now Hinduism has become...I begin to wonder if the whole religious structure is just mind control.

I just myself, can't accept a God that asks for people to sacrifice their sons, or has Job "tested" in the most gruesome of way. That sort of God sounds very "Satanic".

But the ruse is this: It almost seems like even the Lucerferian elite believe in the good vs bad construct. We see writings how "within the elite, us Luceferians see God as the bad guy, the Devil 'lightbringer' as the good guy". Almost seems thats like saying Bush is the bad guy, and Osama is the good guy. Theyre all bad guys.

Btw, wasnt the process church linked to serial killers and government ops?

[8bitagent]

And God is certainly taking his time on the dying front. So is religion. We shouldn't be relaxed about it - the death convulsions of real belief are going to be more violent and lengthy than even it's raucous youth and adolescence were.

Buckle up.

I fear people becoming more zealous in their religious beliefs, and not in a positive light...but in a manipulated "my side is right" bloody clash of civilization..."end times are coming, so bring it on" sort of agenda

.

Au contraire. When people pray to flies and bottletops, they do the same thing they've always done: idolatry; synechdochic self-delusion. Or is it just a way to find a center, find peace with the awe-inspiring universe? I'll get back to you.

Meanwhile, Dawkins has a god he hawks -- a reduction of evolutionary theory that leaves nothing but genes and memes in a zero-sum elimination battle -- and, like most public atheists, a preferred god to attack: the anthropomorphic sky-predator of the Old Testament desert religions. Come to think of it, that's the one I also have the big problem with. He has most definitely received a deserving kill-shot, though it's taking a few centuries to bleed out.

.

As much as I can't stand Christianity(as seen on tv!), creationism,
I also reject the atheistic Darwin is God, we're all just random protons and chaos agenda. The most inflamatory thing you can bring up with so many young liberals(of which I guess I'd be one too) is questioning Darwin as the be all end all. "What are you, a creationist?"
I say straight up I believe in intelligent design. I can't say if its from a single God, pantheon of Gods, aliens, a Gaia like force or what...but I think evolution has to naturally spring from this deliberate and wonderful design.

.

Meanwhile, there's Hitchens, really not so far removed (though he is more famously an asshole than Dawkins, I think Dawkins is equivalent in asshole-substance). Hitchens presents an atheism for neocons, one that singles out Muslims for extra abuse as an internationale of walking bombs, and one he grotesquely ties to support for the Terror War as a necessary move against fundamentalism, although it overthrew a secular Iraqi regime and was presided by a moron who thought he was given a mission from God.

One of my more twisted listening experiences recently was of the Hitchens-Hedges debate, in which it was never clear whether they were contending over the existence of Sky-God and value of organized religion (in which a knife-wielding Hitchens cut the sonorously pontificating Hedges into cutlets in logical terms) or the Iraq war (in which the atheist supported the modern repeat of the Christian crusades and the Jesus guy seemed to agree that the invasion was essentially godless). Goddess help us indeed, if this Bizarroland conflation is indicative of an actual trend.

Christopher Hitchens and Chris Hedges debate the most contentious issue of our time - religion.
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=21538

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What the hell?

It's HILARIOUS when people poo poo a bearded mythical man in a sky who watches us all, yet support the fable of a bearded mythical man in a cave who can strike us at any time.

Bearded lie in the sky or a cave, people need to hold on tight to their beliefs.

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I think the next 20 years could as easily bring an international popular cultural consensus to treat each other as though we were all the same species with the same basic natures and desires in life

That'd be wonderful, if only there's wasn't such a ubiquitous poverty of consciences going on.

[orz]

THERE IS NO DAMN GOD -
ONEism IS A DEATH TRAP
for Mom and Dad Opposites.
You're Educated ONE Nitwits,
I possess Math & Science Proof.
A Queer as God = Queer HIV.
Every Creation is of Opposites,
Not a human or planet is One.
Seek Wisdom of Cubic Life
Intelligence - or you die evil.

[norton ash]

Wacky people, talkin' bout God. No wonder the big kahuna hides.

[Penguin]

As much as I can't stand Christianity(as seen on tv!), creationism,
I also reject the atheistic Darwin is God, we're all just random protons and chaos agenda. The most inflamatory thing you can bring up with so many young liberals(of which I guess I'd be one too) is questioning Darwin as the be all end all. "What are you, a creationist?"
I say straight up I believe in intelligent design. I can't say if its from a single God, pantheon of Gods, aliens, a Gaia like force or what...but I think evolution has to naturally spring from this deliberate and wonderful design.

How interesting that now we have proof coming up that DNA guides its own mutations, to fit the environment, and that we have stable regions in our mammal DNA. Both flying in the face of "blind darwinism" in its most simple form. Maybe the lamarckists will still have their day, thou not in the exact form Opposites reconciled, some truth found midway?

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/v ... +evolution

http://io9.com/5083673/princeton-scient ... -evolution
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/arch ... topstories

[8bitagent]

As much as I can't stand Christianity(as seen on tv!), creationism,
I also reject the atheistic Darwin is God, we're all just random protons and chaos agenda. The most inflamatory thing you can bring up with so many young liberals(of which I guess I'd be one too) is questioning Darwin as the be all end all. "What are you, a creationist?"
I say straight up I believe in intelligent design. I can't say if its from a single God, pantheon of Gods, aliens, a Gaia like force or what...but I think evolution has to naturally spring from this deliberate and wonderful design.

How interesting that now we have proof coming up that DNA guides its own mutations, to fit the environment, and that we have stable regions in our mammal DNA. Both flying in the face of "blind darwinism" in its most simple form. Maybe the lamarckists will still have their day, thou not in the exact form Opposites reconciled, some truth found midway?

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/v ... +evolution

http://io9.com/5083673/princeton-scient ... -evolution
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/arch ... topstories

It's so awesome, DNA adaption.

I mean, twig insects...my goodness, how they look *exactly* like branches, twigs, ect to the smallest detail.

He's so cute too:



It's definitely exciting all the things coming out about the true nature of DNA.

[barracuda]

I also reject the atheistic Darwin is God, we're all just random protons and chaos agenda.
...

I mean, twig insects...my goodness, how they look *exactly* like branches, twigs, ect to the smallest detail.

This is kind of a bad example to use in the rejection of natural selection in favor of intelligent design, though. I mean, these characteristics were obviously chosen over generations for survival quality because the more this insect happened to resemble a stick, the less likely it was that a bird would eat it off a tree. So there's a beautiful element of randomness present here.

[Penguin]

This is kind of a bad example to use in the rejection of natural selection in favor of intelligent design, though. I mean, these characteristics were obviously chosen over generations for survival quality because the more this insect happened to resemble a stick, the less likely it was that a bird would eat it off a tree. So there's a beautiful element of randomness present here.

I kind of see it like barracuda...A yin/yang of randomness and cybernetic control?

[Code Unknown]

I was never happy with God's treatment of Job. To be honest, I've yet to hear of anyone that God treated well. But that's his style, I suppose.
Jesus loves You - God just wants to Put Some Money On Your Pitbulls.

God got on okay with Noah, I suppose. They were both obsessives who hated it whenever anyone else enjoyed themselves, and got drunk whenever they could. Well, Noah did. I can't speak for God.

Satan, however, challenges Job's integrity, arguing that Job serves God simply because of the "hedge" with which God protects him. God progressively removes that protection, allowing Satan to take his wealth, his children, and his physical health. Job remains loyal throughout, and does not curse God. The main portion of the text consists of the discourse of Job and his three friends concerning why Job was so punished, after which God steps in to answer Job and his friends. The Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning and he lived 140 years (Job 42:10,17).

It's almost like 9/11. America intentionally stands down its guard, so the new world order can carry out its planes into building mission.

What the hell kind of God, who is suppose to be "the devil's main adversary", makes this kind of bizarre deal?

Very interesting analogy, 8bit, loose use of your favorite term ("new world order") aside. Call it "GLIHOP."

And why would Job, knowing God has made this almost Faustian pact with the Devil, grovel back to God? "Oh thank you God...you killed my family and ruined my life, but you're so awesome"

Good cop, bad cop. What if it's all a Satanic plan? Christianity, Islam, Judaism...what if it's all a trick? Even the Sumerians believed that the creators were wicked.

Had me...

Of course, that wouldnt explain why most of us are innately born to be good.

...then you lost me.

Zimbabwe, with the rigged elections? Since I was little, I always asked that if people are allowed to have free will...why be punished for it?

Indeed. Deep thought at any age.

America, with the rigged....? Hehehe.

I once asked if people were allowed to do anything wrong in Heaven.
I was told they're not allowed to, even if they want to, and in fact they cannot even want to because it's Heaven.

So it seems the reward for doing everything right in life, in spite of the Devil's temptations, is to be made to do everything right again for all eternity, except without the choice of doing otherwise.

Very good point too, now that you mention it, Ahab.

Over time, people find ways of loosening the constraints of newly organized social groupings. This becomes the rebellious angel, or the God of the Gnostics. Both impulses can be good in their place, but the representation of either one as being uncreated source of existence is idolatry.

Gnosticism is "idolatry"? WTF?

Well we have to go back and think, just going purely from a theological perspective on the early times of Christ and what followed.
From the story of Christ, he's standing up to the elite rulers, money changers, the Devil. If the story is true, Christ is fighting the "new world order elite" at the time, while preaching peace, tolerance, helping people.

Riiight.