Peak water

[Joe Hillshoist]

On a serious level tidal energy is gonna be as close to "free" energy as anything right now. It avoids the entropy problem cos as far as we're concerned its a limitless supply. Its derived from the movement of the sun, earth and moon as a system through space. It won't be a panacea, but it might be worth looking at if we want to give the developing world, countries live india and china primarily, a chance at reducing their dependence on pumping shit into the air to get electricity.

[alwyn]

Hey Slim

you seem to have lots of slogans and platitudes, but not much common sense or real world application. I've been living off the grid/solar since 1990, pump my own water with the sun, etc. etc. etc.

The solar panels are made from petroleum products. This takes energy, right now in the form of oil. The pump to drive the water takes energy, from the sun when it shines. From, you guessed it, oil in a diesel generator when it doesn't. (In my next life, I want to live downhill from a spring!) Water is a huge crisis. Our well goes dry now in November, and doesn't recharge til spring.It takes longer and longer each year to recharge. Seems like the water tables are dropping. We are lucky to get rainfall,and we have a huge cachement pond, but we still have to move that water somehow.

The only good thing I see about solar is, that after the initial energy conversion, it allows you to live a LITTLE more cleanly. Since most people who have gone solar refuse to give up their energy consumption lifestyle, (myself included, lately) not much energy is saved.

HOw much water do you use in a day, slim? Do you even know? Did you know that the average person uses more than 150 gallons a day for personal use? NOt counting agriculture? What do you use for detergents. Do you know where it goes when it goes down the drain? HOw many showers do you take a day. Do you have a car? Lawn? Garden?

Do you know how many solar panels it takes to pump water up 200 feet? 6, when the sun shines. Do you know how much a solar panel costs? $400-800 bucks apiece. Saying we should be using solar, and doing something about it are two different things, and it is out of reach for most people making what we so fondly term a living these days. I lived in a school bus for five years, with two panels on top, while we saved for more panels. NOt many people have that option.

Slogans are not solutions, and bandwagons are for the ignorant. Instead of taking us to task for our ignorance, why don't you do something about your own, and really look into, or perhaps LIVE what you're going on about.

You can take me to task for being stinky, and I probably am, because I've lived with water rationing for years. I guess the world is catching up to me.

[marmot]

I lived in a school bus for five years, with two panels on top, while we saved for more panels.

Fascinating lifestyle, there, alwyn. Sounds romantic.

[wintler2]

Fascinating lifestyle, there, alwyn. Sounds romantic.

Graffitti: 'your spectacle is my adventure'.

[alwyn]

I lived in a school bus for five years, with two panels on top, while we saved for more panels.

Fascinating lifestyle, there, alwyn. Sounds romantic.

It was, rather. I was working for a theater company, and we would travel seasonally. OUr home base was on some of the most expensive property in Marin County, and we had a million dollar view (back in the early nineties). There was a couple who lived in the mansions up the road walking down our dirt road by the bay (we lived on what we called fire watch, at the edge of an oak forest.) They looked at our bus disgustedly, and said "you couldn't get a view like that for a million dollars!" I laughed. It was great living there, albeit primitive, especially in the winter. The nearest shower was a mile away. We lost the land in the late nineties, and the company shortly after. Happily, we were able to buy the farm then. Still off the grid, but I have a nice little cabin now.

[marmot]

I lived in a school bus for five years, with two panels on top, while we saved for more panels.

Fascinating lifestyle, there, alwyn. Sounds romantic.

It was, rather. I was working for a theater company, and we would travel seasonally. OUr home base was on some of the most expensive property in Marin County, and we had a million dollar view (back in the early nineties). There was a couple who lived in the mansions up the road walking down our dirt road by the bay (we lived on what we called fire watch, at the edge of an oak forest.) They looked at our bus disgustedly, and said "you couldn't get a view like that for a million dollars!" I laughed. It was great living there, albeit primitive, especially in the winter. The nearest shower was a mile away. We lost the land in the late nineties, and the company shortly after. Happily, we were able to buy the farm then. Still off the grid, but I have a nice little cabin now.

i, personally, would love a nice little cabin not too far off the grid, near trees and water.

sounds wonderful, alwyn, sounds wonderful---except for that part about being a mile away from the nearest shower.

[alwyn]

Happily, we were able to buy the farm then. Still off the grid, but I have a nice little cabin now.

i, personally, would love a nice little cabin not too far off the grid, near trees and water.

sounds wonderful, alwyn, sounds wonderful---except for that part about being a mile away from the nearest shower.

that was then...crew showers were at crew central, it was a long walk, or drive.

We bought a different farm, and I now have indoor plumbing —thank God, I can't imagine having the baby without it, although we did run out of water after he was born. He was the only one that got a shower that summer, til the well filled again.

I've never forgotten being out of water, and tend to conserve as a matter of course. Dishes by hand, shower once a week whether I need it or not! We are still waiting for the well to recharge this year, (scary thoughts about the coming summer and 100' plus weather). So, water rationing all around.

I had a dream a couple of years ago that all the mountain
ran out of water, and the houses tumbled down. I kind of hope it was just a passing nightmare, and not prophecy. We'll see.

Living in the country is wonderful, but it's not cheap. We pay more for fuel, groceries, hardware, everything but real estate. It's that value added fuel tax, doncha know.

[beeline]

Alwyn, that's really cool. I wish I could live like that. I like my urban adventures too much though. Drinks at the bar with the regular crew, bantering with the homeless, commuting to work on the subway....who knows, if I get laid off, maybe I will...I could use a lifestyle change...

[marmot]

I've never forgotten being out of water, and tend to conserve as a matter of course. Dishes by hand, shower once a week whether I need it or not!

Not to be too weird on this, but I do like the way I and most of my friends smell after not bathing for awhile. Truly, body odor's awesome. Unless you smell like my friend Skunky, in which case I wouldn't want to be close enough to sniff ya.

I hope you don't think less of me when I tell you I often have two showers a day. I don't feel like I'm properly woken up until I have one, and after an especially sweaty day I like to take another shower before I slip into my cool, clean bed sheets.

What did humanity do before indoor plumbing. I think we moderns live better lives than ancient kings and queens. Although I do know of some old palaces that had showers and baths and toilets and such.

When I was younger, my family built us a house on top of a hill in SW Pennsylvania. This area is rarely without rain and water, except for one dry year that I remember. And the strange thing is we had a perched water table up there, and still had a fairly full well when our neighbors down below had wells that were drying up.

And, btw, our well water, imo, was some of the tastiest ever. It was slightly sweet and had a tinge of metallic to it, iron I believe. I now live in the city. We actually have good water here in Pittsburgh. ONly thing is I wish I could inexpensively filter out the Fluoride. My Brita doesn't do this.

[alwyn]

I hope you don't think less of me when I tell you I often have two showers a day.,<snip>. ONly thing is I wish I could inexpensively filter out the Fluoride. My Brita doesn't do this.

Me, I miss long hot baths in the evening.

If you have a costco near you (or maybe a hardware store) the pur water system can be had for fairly cheap, and, I believe, will filter flouride. You screw it on the end of your water faucet...

I got one for the house for when we have to run the pond water through the lines. Filters giardia and cryptosporidium too.

[marmot]

Thanks, alwyn, I'll look into it.

A couple years ago on the internet I came across a site bottling and selling very old water from the depths of Lake Baikal. located in Siberia, Lake Baikal is the deepest lake in the world and holds more water than all the Great Lakes combined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Baikal

[slimmouse]

Hey Slim

you seem to have lots of slogans and platitudes, but not much common sense or real world application.

OK, so the reason the world is running out of water and fossil fuels is due to my lack of common sense or application ?

Youve got to be kidding me right ?

Nothing to do with a bunch of Robber barons who know full well that in a world of plenty, their ivory towers would crumble, reducing them to ordinary ( but I have little doubt, happier )people ?

Or the fact that in order to avoid being reduced to such levels one of many weapons used by these ( clearly deranged ) people is perpetuating the myth that hydrocarbon fuel is the be all and end all

Call me lazy, but I seriously cant be bothered with even begginning to explain the complete and utter bullshit that this myth truly is.

Ive explained my wholly logical expose of this lie a few times already on this thread.

If you cant get your head around it, then no wonder the world is fucked.

[alwyn]

Slim, I'm afraid your relationship with shapeshifting aliens has affected your ability to maintain the context of a thread. Quit shifting the context. You have a regrettable tendency to attack based upon your interpretation of what was said, rather than what was actually said or referenced.

But cults can do that to you.

By the way, your tubular steel? How do you heat it when the sun don't shine? Kind'a makes it tought to use it to transport water in, say, the pac.northwest...

But since you know the scientific facts behind your clue, maybe you should lay it out for us?

[slimmouse]

Slim, I'm afraid your relationship with shapeshifting aliens has affected your ability to maintain the context of a thread. Quit shifting the context. You have a regrettable tendency to attack based upon your interpretation of what was said, rather than what was actually said or referenced.

But cults can do that to you.

By the way, your tubular steel? How do you heat it when the sun don't shine? Kind'a makes it tought to use it to transport water in, say, the pac.northwest...

But since you know the scientific facts behind your clue, maybe you should lay it out for us?

Once again Alwyn let me put to you a few simple facts, followed by a question.

We can program atoms to act like computers.

We can crack the genetic code.

We can (apparently) blow the world up ten thousand times over.

Yet we cant use 99.9 % of the (known) mass of the solar system, combined with 2/3rds of the Earths natural content to create sufficient fresh water for all ?

I'll have to leave you to do the logic Alwyn.

You see, common sense would according to you , not be one of my stronger points.

I appear to be all common sensed empty.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Yet we cant use 99.9 % of the (known) mass of the solar system, combined with 2/3rds of the Earths natural content to create sufficient fresh water for all ?

2 thirds of the earths natural content is actually magma slim.

But how we would we use nearly all of the mass of the known solar system to create free(or mega cheap) fresh water for all?

What can we build that would do that. How do we do it?

You reckon its possible, but do you have a plan, even one you could just outline and leave to some of us who would actually try and make it work?