Top Climate Scientist: Copenhagen Must Fail, Slams CapnTrade

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Postby barracuda » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:23 am

23 wrote:I strongly doubt that... if the examples of intelligent guests that I cited thought that AJ was a fascist... they would come on his show for any reason.

But I suspect that they don't. Nor have I read or heard them mention any semblance of an opinion that he is.

I trust their judgement before I would someone who views him as a fascist.


Doesn't fascism come in many shades, graduating shades of grey included? Even colors that might match the skin tones of some of your guests if the lighting was right? You are sounding a bit intolerant of ambiguity. Good on you.
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Postby 23 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:51 am

barracuda wrote:
23 wrote:I strongly doubt that... if the examples of intelligent guests that I cited thought that AJ was a fascist... they would come on his show for any reason.

But I suspect that they don't. Nor have I read or heard them mention any semblance of an opinion that he is.

I trust their judgement before I would someone who views him as a fascist.


Doesn't fascism come in many shades, graduating shades of grey included? Even colors that might match the skin tones of some of your guests if the lighting was right? You are sounding a bit intolerant of ambiguity. Good on you.


I stand by my opinion.

If any of the guests that I cited believed that AJ was a fascist... of any shade or hue... I don't believe that they would've wanted to participate on his show.

Plus, the record is glaringly absent of any pronouncements of theirs that Al is a fascist.. of any shade or hue.

I'm also not a fan of tolerance. It's an insufficient mindset, compared to acceptance. You can be a tolerator and still view yourself as possessing more value than the thing or person that you're tolerating. Acceptance, on the other hand, puts you more on an equal footing.

Which is a good segue for me to also say... good on you, as well, for sharing your spin on the subject too.
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Postby lightningBugout » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:15 am

He is quoted right there speculating that gays and lesbians are plotting to steal children (that whole "wicked" "head-hunters" bit) and you're essentially saying, "well I'm going to have to defer to Cindy Sheehan on this one."
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Postby 8bitagent » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:22 am

Jeff wrote:
8bitagent wrote:Strange to see an alliance of sorts between the left wing anti government activist types(Naomi Klein), the right wing anti government activists(Alex Jones) and then the Fox News/Beck/Rush/climate deniers.


But it's only the vaguest impression of an alliance - the difference between saying the diagnosis is a sham and the remedy is a fraud - though that's never stopped Jones from misrepresenting wisdom in support of his foolishness.

Also, I wouldn't call Klein anti-government. She's anti-capitalist, and governments can, on rare occasion and in far away places, be very helpful to that end.


I think I better understand now. The scientist in the OP as well as Klein are saying the "solution" to climate change has been hijacked, while
WMD/AJ/Beck/Fox types are saying "Copenhagen is fueled by an elite agenda, therefore global warming is a hoax"

Ok. Well...that makes sense. How hard is it going to be, IF it indeed turns out this is what "Copenhagen" is really about; to then tell people "Copenhagen is a power grab by an elite agenda...but global warming and climate change is real".

To me it's like 9/11. Either way, its a setup. With global warming, if its real(which I do believe) then its the elite's polluting factories and corporations that helped make it what it is today. It's not "manmade" global warming, it would then be "PTB industry made" global warming.
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Postby 8bitagent » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:26 am

barracuda wrote:
23 wrote:Either they're blind to AJ's fascism or they're supporters of it.


There's no third way? Perhaps they recognise that his audience share their concerns to some degree, and have chosen to attempt to voice their message through a flawed mechanism rather than none at all. Or for some other entirely different reason.


There is much parallel between the leftist activists(the Noam Chomsky, Seattle 1999 anti WTO/globalization, Save Darfur, end the wars) side
and the "Devil Worshipping NWO elites are staging terror to bring about a one world government and take away our guns" side.
You could say both sides are "anti NWO" or "anti PTB" in their own way.

It's just, the leftists HATE "conspiracy theorists" and see it all as right wing paranoia.

Not sure where Glenn Beck fits in, as he's pro war, hates 9/11 truthers, and shills for birther bullshit on Fox.
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Postby 8bitagent » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:34 am

lightningBugout wrote:Alex Jones On Homosexuals, for example.....

Alex Jones wrote:"I don't like that your culture doesn't produce children, so you gotta come rob ours. See you're like, oh, just let me have my rights, and do what I want in my own bedroom. Go ahead, I'm not obsessed with that, I'm not hung up on that, like all the fake Republican leaders who are all constantly caught in bathrooms and trying to bugger children. I'm not obsessed and hung up on it.

"But I do know that almost every family court judge I've studied in the country that seizes kids is a lesbian or a gay man, and they feed the kids to the child protection system that then give them to gay and lesbian families, and I'm telling you, your headhunting of children is bad news and very very wicked, and you know what? You're committing a crime and you need to face up to the fact that you don't reproduce, so decide that you're not going to have children."


Dude wtf?

Alex Jones said that? Man. Was that in his late 90's phase, or more recent?

One BIG reason I was originally turned off to AJ besides his bombastic WWF wrestler style was because he ALWAYS featured "Christians" saying hate crime laws were Orwellian and would stop them from campaigning against gays.

I strongly believe in my heart that the anti gay agenda IS by the "Satanic NWO" or whatever(PTB/THEY/etc) I think the elite have tried VERY hard
from Jamaica to Sudan/Uganda/Somalia/all over Africa to Egypt/Saudi Arabia to America to make life utterly fucking miserable for homosexuals.

They push this "all gays are snippy rich flamboyant AIDS spreads who'll dazzle you with lispy entertainment then rape your kids" fear meme
that sadly many African Americans in America buy(Majority of black voters in California voted from the Jim Crow like Prop 8 bullshit)

Actually, shit..now I remember around November last year Prisonplanet posted a bunch of articles attacking gay rights and prop 8, calling Schwarzenegger a "shill for the NWO" for supporting gay marriage.


AND THEN we've seen Alex Jones spend countless breaths ATTACKING MEXICANS, calling them pieces of filth and trash.

So...

between Alex Jones anti gay, anti Mexican/immigrant bullshit
and NOW his full blown jihad shilling for CLIMATE DENIAL,
I just can't in good conscience recommend any of his movies or stuff.

I dont get it, he claims to be fighting against hate, racism and against the nwo...but his anti gay/mexican crap is EXACTLY what the NWO propaganda wants!
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Postby lightningBugout » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:41 am

It is interesting though that there have been some alliances forged as a result of 9/11 Truth.

The Cathy O'Brien talk I went to in June was sponsored by some variant of We are Change and seemed to boast alot of very credulous former Lefties who were not yet familiar with the strengths or the weaknesses of the Patriot set. IE a lot of gasping at every single O'Brien "revelation" of this or that alleged perp (who collectively pretty much make up the vast majority of politicians in DC, almost literally, if you believe she's legitimate, which I don't exactly).

A dangerous confluence if it goes the wrong way, I think. Something very interesting if it goes the right way.

There is a talk, somewhere on Youtube, from 2008 between Naomi Wolf and AJ that is very interesting as it pertains to this merger. Mostly him pushing her to see that the problems with the deep state are equally (if distinctly) expressed in the Clinton and Bush regimes.

I think she is far smarter than AJ (as well as better educated and less reactionary) and so am very curious to see how her thinking evolves over the next few years.

ps. 8bit - that quote? June 30, 2009
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Postby 8bitagent » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:50 am

lightningBugout wrote:It is interesting though that there have been some alliances forged as a result of 9/11 Truth.

The Cathy O'Brien talk I went to in June was sponsored by some variant of We are Change and seemed to boast alot of very credulous former Lefties who were not yet familiar with the strengths or the weaknesses of the Patriot set. IE a lot of gasping at every single O'Brien "revelation" of this or that alleged perp (who collectively pretty much make up the vast majority of politicians in DC, almost literally, if you believe she's legitimate, which I don't exactly).

A dangerous confluence if it goes the wrong way, I think. Something very interesting if it goes the right way.

There is a talk, somewhere on Youtube, from 2008 between Naomi Wolf and AJ that is very interesting as it pertains to this merger. Mostly him pushing her to see that the problems with the deep state are equally (if distinctly) expressed in the Clinton and Bush regimes.

I think she is far smarter than AJ (as well as better educated and less reactionary) and so am very curious to see how her thinking evolves over the next few years.

ps. 8bit - that quote? June 30, 2009


That whole "Satanic child kidnapping illuminati CIA agenda/mind control/monarch" crowd I have to admit is a bit...off.

I remember attending a dinner with some of Gundersen's pals at a conference, and it was right out of a Texe Marr/Cutting Edge/WND
"Disney Illuminati mind control" article. Oy vei.

I do believe there is stuff out there as Jeff has written extensively in his blog, however the way its presented and the meme it fits into...just rubs me the wrong way.

Ok, maybe some of these people were raped by succubi-cum-political shapeshifters or put into elite CIA satanic mind control sex slave programs. I dont know..I believe some out there stuff.

But something...just feels off with some of these folks. I dont doubt O'brien has been through some extremely ugly stuff.
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Postby Gouda » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:53 am

Blythe Masters, one of the people responsible for inventing credit derivatives (credit default swaps, etc) is now one of the key architects of carbon derivatives at the heart of Cap and Trade. She works for JP Morgan. They and their banking brethren are 'moving in' on climate, ready to 'mediate' the trade:

From the Bloomberg article, link above:

Carbon Capitalists Warming to Climate Market Using Derivatives

(...)

These two worlds came together in the offices of Blythe Masters at JPMorgan Chase & Co. Masters, 40, oversees the New York bank’s environmental businesses as the firm’s global head of commodities. JPMorgan brokered a deal in 2007 for Land Rover to buy carbon credits from ClimateCare, an Oxford, England-based group that develops energy-efficiency projects around the world. Land Rover, now owned by Mumbai-based Tata Motors Ltd., is using the credits to offset some of the CO2 emissions produced by its vehicles.

For Wall Street, these kinds of voluntary carbon deals are just a dress rehearsal for the day when the U.S. develops a mandatory trading program for greenhouse gas emissions. JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley will be watching closely as 192 nations gather in Copenhagen next week to try to forge a new climate-change treaty that would, for the first time, include the U.S. and China.

(...)

Estimates of the potential size of the U.S. cap-and-trade market range from $300 billion to $2 trillion.

Banks Moving In

Banks intend to become the intermediaries in this fledgling market. Although U.S. carbon legislation may not pass for a year or more, Wall Street has already spent hundreds of millions of dollars hiring lobbyists and making deals with companies that can supply them with “carbon offsets” to sell to clients.

JPMorgan, for instance, purchased ClimateCare in early 2008 for an undisclosed sum. This month, it paid $210 million for Eco-Securities Group Plc, the biggest developer of projects used to generate credits offsetting government-regulated carbon emissions. Financial institutions have also been investing in alternative energy, such as wind and solar power, and lending to clean-technology entrepreneurs.

The banks are preparing to do with carbon what they’ve done before: design and market derivatives contracts that will help client companies hedge their price risk over the long term. They’re also ready to sell carbon-related financial products to outside investors.

Masters says banks must be allowed to lead the way if a mandatory carbon-trading system is going to help save the planet at the lowest possible cost. And derivatives related to carbon must be part of the mix, she says. Derivatives are securities whose value is derived from the value of an underlying commodity -- in this case, CO2 and other greenhouse gases.

‘Heavy Involvement’

“This requires a massive redirection of capital,” Masters says. “You can’t have a successful climate policy without the heavy, heavy involvement of financial institutions.”

As a young London banker in the early 1990s, Masters was part of JPMorgan’s team developing ideas for transferring risk to third parties. She went on to manage credit risk for JPMorgan’s investment bank.

Among the credit derivatives that grew from the bank’s early efforts was the credit-default swap. A CDS is a contract that functions like insurance by protecting debt holders against default. In 2008, after U.S. home prices plunged, the cost of protection against subprime-mortgage bond defaults jumped. Insurer American International Group Inc., which had sold billions in CDSs, was forced into government ownership, roiling markets and helping trigger the worst global recession since the 1930s.

(...)
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Postby American Dream » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:12 am

Why We Left Our Farms to Come to Copenhagen

Speech of Henry Saragih, general coordinator of Via Campesina at the opening session of Klimaforum
by La Via Campesina
Copenhagen, 7th December 2009


Tonight is a very special night for us to get together here for the opening of the assembly of the social movements and civil society at the Klimaforum. We, the international peasant movement La Via Campesina, are coming to Copenhagen from all five corners of the world, leaving our farmland, our animals, our forest, and also our families in the hamlets and villages to join you all.

Why is it so important for us to come this far? There are a number of reasons for that. Firstly, we would like to tell you that climate change is already seriously impacting us. It brings floods, droughts and the outbreak of pests that are all causing harvest failures. I must point out that these harvest failures are something that the farmers did not create. Instead, it is the polluters who caused the emissions who destroy the natural cycles. So, we small scale farmers came here to say that we will not pay for their mistakes. And we are asking the emitters to face up to their responsibilities.

Secondly, I would like to share with you some facts about who the emitters of green house gases in agriculture really are: new data that has come out clearly shows that industrial agriculture and the globalized food system are responsible of between 44 and 57% of total global greenhouse gas emissions. This figure can be broken down as follows (i) Agricultural activities are responsible for 11 to 15%, (ii) Land clearing and deforestation cause an additional 15 to 18%, (iii) Food processing, packing and transportation cause 15 to 20%, and (iv) Decomposition of organic waste causes another 3 to 4%. It means that our current food system is a major polluter.

The question we have to answer now is: how do we solve the climate chaos, hunger and assure a better livelihood for farmers, when the agricultural sector itself is contributing more than half of the total emissions? We believe that it is the industrial and agribusiness model of agriculture that is at the root of the problem, because those percentages that I mentioned earlier come from the deforestation and the conversion of natural forests into monoculture plantations, all of which is being carried out by Agribusiness Corporations. Not by familly farmers. Such large emissions of methane by agriculture are also due to the use of urea as a petrochemical fertilizer through the green revolution, very much supported by the World Bank. At the same time, agricultural trade liberalization promoted by free trade agreements (FTA) and by the World Trade Organization (WTO) is contributing to the greenhouse gases emissions due to food processing and food transportation around the world.

If we genuinely want to tackle the climate change crisis, the only way we have to go forward is to stop industrial agriculture. Agribusiness has not only highly contributed to the climate crisis, it has also massacred the small farmers of the world. Millions of farmers , men and women from around the world, have been kicked off their land. Millions of others suffer violence every year because of land conflicts in Africa, Asia and Latin America. Small farmers and landless farmers make up the majority of the more than 1 billion hungry people in the world. And because of free trade, many small farmers commit suicide in South Asia. So putting an end to industrial agriculture is the only way we can go.

Will the current climate negotiations, that are relying on carbon trade mechanisms, bring solutions to climate change? To this we say that carbon trade mechanisms will only serve polluting countries and companies, and bring disaster to small farmers and indigenous peoples in developing countries. The REDD initiative (Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Degradation) has already kicked off their land many indigenous peoples and small farmers in developing countries. And more and more agricultural land is being converted into tree plantations in order to attract carbon credits.

At COP 13 in Bali 2007, La Via Campesina proposed the landless farmers' and small farmers' solution to climate change, which is: "small scale sustainable farmers are cooling down the earth". And here, at COP 15, again we bring that proposal, backing it with the figures that prove that it could reduce more than half of the global greenhouse gas emissions. This figure comes from: (I) Recuperating organic matter in the soil would reduce emissions by 20 to 35%. (ii) Reversing the concentration of meat production in factory farms and reintegrating joint animal and crop production would reduce them by 5 to 9% (iii) Putting local markets and fresh food back at the center of the food system would reduce a further 10 to 12%. (iv) Halting land clearing and deforestation would stop 15 to 18% of emissions. In short, by taking agriculture away from the big agribusiness corporations and putting it back into the hands of small farmers, we can reduce half of the global emissions of greenhouse gases. This is what we propose, and we call it Food Sovereignty.

And to achieve that we need social movements to work together and struggle together to put an end to the current false solutions that are today on the table at the climate negotiations. This is a must, otherwise we will face an even bigger tragedy worldwide. We, as social movements, have to bring our own agenda onto the table, because we are the first climate victims and climate refugees and therefore climate justice is in our hands.

At the FAO Food Summit in 1996, governments committed themselves to reduce hunger by half by 2015. The reality is that the number of hungry people has recently increased dramatically. We do not want the same thing to happen with the climate talks and see the emissions increase even further regardless of what the governments negotiate within the UNFCCC.

We invite all the movements present in Copenhagen to join together to bring climate justice to the table. Climate justice will only be achieved through solidarity and social justice.



URL to article: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/08-2
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Postby Gouda » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:59 am

Blythe Masters, JP Morgan derivatives priestess, paraphrased by Bloomberg sez:
...banks must be allowed to lead the way if a mandatory carbon-trading system is going to help save the planet at the lowest possible cost. And derivatives related to carbon must be part of the mix.


The US House of Representatives, Wall Street's Blackwater, sez:
A bipartisan coalition in the House voted late Thursday to make it easier for corporations to engage in complex derivatives trades without government restrictions, eroding the reach of proposed regulations to govern Wall Street.


Gotta keep that derivatives market limber for the coming carbon bubble.

*Burp*
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Postby American Dream » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:30 pm

www.ruckus.org

Greetings Ruckus readers -

Canada is one of many governments who have sent "delegates" to Copenhagen to derail the UN climate conference...but Prime Minister Harper and his delegation no longer have stealth on their side. They are leaving a trail of oily Tar Sands wherever they go.

This Monday (Dec. 14) young indigenous organizers from Tar Sands impacted First Nations will lead thousands of allies in an action that is sure to electrify Copenhagen and the world.

They are calling for people of conscience across the Earth to stand with them. Solidarity actions are already planned for: Edmonton, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, and London (with other cities to be added).

We've made it easy for anyone to take a unified stance against the Tar Sands. Click here to download your very own Oily Tar Sands Footprint stencils. Then get together with your friends this Monday and take ACTION.

There are SO many banks, oil companies, and elected officials conspiring to commit the world's greatest climate crime. But here's a quick list of the dirtiest:

Banks: Canada - RBC, CIBC, BMO. USA - BoA, CitiBank Eupore - HSBC, RBS, Barclays
Oil Companies: Shell, Exxon, BP, Total, Chevron, Esso, Conoco, Enbridge, Syncrude, Suncor
Your local MP's Office: If the government is your thing.

So pick your favorite bad guy and leave a trail of footprints around their building.

Take Action!!

Yours,

Sharon and the IP3 delegation to Copenhagen!

(This action is sponsored by - Indigenous Environmental Network (IEN), Rainforest Action Network (RAN), Council of Canadians, The Ruckus Society, and the Indigenous Peoples' Power Project (IP3))


The Ruckus Society

P.O. Box 28741, Oakland, CA 94604 510.931.6339

www.ruckus.org / www.facebook.com/ruckussociety / www.twitter.com/ruckusociety
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Postby Gouda » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:44 am

Johann Hari: Leaders of the rich world are enacting a giant fraud

The Independent

Corporate lobbyists can pressure or bribe governments to rig the system in their favour

Every delegate to the Copenhagen summit is being greeted by the sight of a vast fake planet dominating the city's central square. This swirling globe is covered with corporate logos – the Coke brand is stamped over Africa, while Carlsberg appears to own Asia, and McDonald's announces "I'm loving it!" in great red letters above. "Welcome to Hopenhagen!" it cries. It is kept in the sky by endless blasts of hot air.

This plastic planet is the perfect symbol for this summit. The world is being told that this is an emergency meeting to solve the climate crisis – but here inside the Bela Centre where our leaders are gathering, you can find only a corrupt shuffling of words, designed to allow countries to wriggle out of the bare minimum necessary to prevent the unravelling of the biosphere.

Staggering across the fringes of the summit are the people who will see their countries live or die on the basis of its deliberations. Leah Wickham, a young woman from Fiji, broke down as she told the conference she will see her homeland disappear beneath the waves if we do not act now. "All the hopes of my generation rest on Copenhagen," she pleaded. Dazed Chinese and Indian NGOs explain how the Himalayan ice is rapidly vanishing and will be gone by 2035 – so the great rivers of Asia that are born there will shrivel and cease. They provide water for a quarter of humanity.

Mohamed Nasheed, the President of the drowning Maldives, said simply: "The last generation of humans went to the moon. This generation of humans needs to decide if it wants to stay alive on planet Earth."

We know what has to happen to give us a fighting chance of avoiding catastrophe. We need carbon emissions in rich countries to be 40 per cent lower than they were in 1990 – by 2020. We can haggle with each other over how to get there but we can't haggle with atmospheric physics over the end-goal: the Earth's atmosphere has put this limit on what it can absorb, and we can respect it, or suffer.

Yet the first week of this summit is being dominated by the representatives of the rich countries trying to lace the deal with Enron-style accounting tricks that will give the impression of cuts, without the reality. It's essential to understand these shenanigans this week, so we can understand the reality of the deal that will be announced with great razzmatazz next week.

Most of the tricks centre around a quirk in the system: a rich country can "cut" its emissions without actually releasing fewer greenhouse gases. How? It can simply pay a poor country to emit less than it otherwise would have. In theory it sounds okay: we all have the same atmosphere, so who cares where the cuts come from?

But a system where emissions cuts can be sold among countries introduces extreme complexity into the system. It quickly (and deliberately) becomes so technical that nobody can follow it – no concerned citizen, no journalist, and barely even full-time environmental groups. You can see if your government is building more coal power stations, or airports, or motorways. You can't see if the cuts they have "bought" halfway round the world are happening – especially when they are based on projections of increases that would have happened, in theory, if your government hadn't stumped up the cash.

A study by the University of Stanford found that most of the projects that are being funded as "cuts" either don't exist, don't work, or would have happened anyway. Yet this isn't a small side-dish to the deal: it's the main course. For example, under proposals from the US, the country with by far the highest per capita emissions in the world wouldn't need to cut its own gas by a single exhaust pipe until 2026, insisting it'll simply pay for these shadow-projects instead.

It gets worse still. A highly complex system operating in the dark is a gift to corporate lobbyists, who can pressure or bribe governments into rigging the system in their favour, rather than the atmosphere's. It's worth going through some of the scams that are bleeding the system of any meaning. They may sound dull or technical, but they are life or death to countries like Leah's.

Trick one: hot air. The nations of the world were allocated permits to release greenhouse gases back in 1990, when the Soviet Union was still a vast industrial power – so it was given a huge allocation. But the following year, it collapsed, and its industrial base went into freefall – along with its carbon emissions. It was never going to release those gases after all. But Russia and the eastern European countries have held on to them in all negotiations as "theirs". Now, they are selling them to rich countries who want to purchase "cuts". Under the current system, the US can buy them from Romania and say they have cut emissions – even though they are nothing but a legal fiction.

We aren't talking about climatic small change. This hot air represents 10 gigatonnes of CO2. By comparison, if the entire developed world cuts its emissions by 40 per cent by 2020, that will only take six gigatonnes out of the atmosphere.

Trick two: double-counting. This is best understood through an example. If Britain pays China to abandon a coal power station and construct a hydro-electric dam instead, Britain pockets the reduction in carbon emissions as part of our overall national cuts. In return, we are allowed to keep a coal power station open at home. But at the same time, China also counts this change as part of its overall cuts. So one tonne of carbon cuts is counted twice. This means the whole system is riddled with exaggeration – and the figure for overall global cuts is a con.

Trick three: the fake forests – or what the process opaquely dubs "LULUCF". Forests soak up warming gases and store them away from the atmosphere – so, perfectly sensibly, countries get credit under the new system for preserving them. It is an essential measure to stop global warming. But the Canadian, Swedish and Finnish logging companies have successfully pressured their governments into inserting an absurd clause into the rules. The new rules say you can, in the name of "sustainable forest management", cut down almost all the trees – without losing credits. It's Kafkaesque: a felled forest doesn't increase your official emissions... even though it increases your actual emissions.

There are dozens more examples like this, but you and I would lapse into a coma if I listed them. This is deliberate. This system has been made incomprehensible because if we understood, ordinary citizens would be outraged. If these were good faith negotiations, such loopholes would be dismissed in seconds. And the rich countries are flatly refusing to make even these enfeebled, leaky cuts legally binding. You can toss them in the bin the moment you leave the conference centre, and nobody will have any comeback. On the most important issue in the world – the stability of our biosphere – we are being scammed.

Our leaders are aren't giving us Hopenhagen – they're giving us Cokenhagen, a sugary feelgood hit filled with sickly additives and no nutrition. Their behaviour here – where the bare minimum described as safe by scientists isn't even being considered – indicates they are more scared of the corporate lobbyists that fund their campaigns, or the denialist streak in their own country, than of rising seas and falling civilisations.

But there is one reason why I am still – despite everything – defiantly hopeful. Converging on this city now are thousands of ordinary citizens who aren't going to take it any more. They aren't going to watch passively while our ecosystems are vandalised. They are demanding only what the cold, hard science demands – real and rapid cuts, enforced by a global environmental court that will punish any nation that endangers us all. This movement will not go away. Copenhagen has soured into a con – but from the wreckage, there could arise a stronger demand for a true solution.

If we don't raise the political temperature very fast, the physical temperature will rise – and we can say goodbye to Leah, and to the only safe climate we have ever known.
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Postby Gouda » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:42 am

James Hansen may be get Copenhagen failure after all...

Link 1

Link 2

Walkout heightens failure fears over climate summit

Richard Ingham, AFP

The United Nations climate summit hit major turbulence on Monday when developing nations walked out of key negotiations and China accused the West of trickery, as the spectre of failure loomed heavily over Copenhagen.

As campaigners warned that negotiators had five days to avert climate chaos, ministers acknowledged they had to start making progress before the arrival of 120 heads of state for the summit's climax on Friday.

Sources said the developing countries walked out of working groups at the start of the second week of negotiations here, angered that the conference was weakening in support for the Kyoto Protocol, the core emissions-curbing treaty.

"They have walked out, I am advised, of the working groups," one Western minister told Agence France-Presse on condition of anonymity.

"This is salvageable. It depends if people want to be constructive."

The move was unleashed by African countries, with the support of the G77 group of developing countries.

They refused to continue negotiations unless talks on a second commitment period to the Kyoto Protocol were given priority over broader discussions on a "long-term vision" for cooperative action on climate change.

The Kyoto Protocol ties the rich countries -- but not developing countries -- that have ratified it to binding emissions curbs.

It does not include the US, which says the protocol is unfair as the binding targets do not apply to developing giants that are already huge emitters of greenhouse gases.

"Africa has pulled the emergency cord to avoid a train crash at the end of the week," said Jeremy Hobbs, executive director of Oxfam International.

The walkout delivered another blow to the summit which has already been marred by spats between China and the United States.

A top Western negotiator, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a round-table session of about 50 environment ministers on Sunday had been soured by "growing tensions between the Americans and Chinese," saying delegates had merely repeated their previous stances rather than giving ground.

"At the back of everyone's mind is the fear of a repeat of the awful scenario in The Hague," she told Agence France-Presse, referring to a climate conference in 2000 on completing the rulebook for the Kyoto Protocol that broke up angrily without agreement.

In an apparent concession, China said it might not take a share of any Western funding for emerging nations to fight climate change.

But in a pointer to the tensions backstage, Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei said China would not be the fall guy if there were a fiasco.

"I know people will say if there is no deal that China is to blame. This is a trick played by the developed countries. They have to look at their own position and can't use China as an excuse," he told the Financial Times.

Britain's climate minister, Ed Miliband, urged negotiators to work faster to break the deadlock.

"Leaders are practically on their way ... Leaders always have a very important role in this. But frankly it's also up to negotiators and ministers not to leave everything up to the leaders, but to get our act together," he said.

Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, whose country is the industrialised world's biggest per-capita polluter, fretted at the possibility of failure without compromise all round.

"There's a big risk that we will have conflicting views between developed and developing countries," Rudd said in Australia. "And there is always a risk of failure here."

Campaigners were even blunter, with Greenpeace saying the summit had five days "to avert climate chaos" and that emissions targets so far offered by Western leaders such as US President Barack Obama amounted to "peanuts".

The gathering's daunting goal is to tame greenhouse gases -- the invisible by-product derived mainly from the burning of coal, oil and gas that traps the sun's heat and warms the atmosphere.

Scientists say that without dramatic action within the next decade, Earth will be on course for warming that will inflict drought, flood, storms and rising sea levels, translating into hunger and misery for many millions.

The stakes were underlined when a new UN report said that about 58-million people have been affected by 245 natural calamities so far this year, more than 90% of them weather events amplified by climate change.

And a study from the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN), an intergovernmental group, said climate change threatens the survival of dozens of animal species from the emperor penguin to Australian koalas.

If all goes well, the conference will agree an outline deal of national pledges to curb carbon emissions and set up a mechanism to provide billions of dollars in help for poor countries in the firing line of climate change. -- AFP
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Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:26 pm

From Hari's article:

Dazed Chinese and Indian NGOs explain how the Himalayan ice is rapidly vanishing and will be gone by 2035 – so the great rivers of Asia that are born there will shrivel and cease. They provide water for a quarter of humanity.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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