New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

[MacCruiskeen]

DYEW, apologies for throwing the thread off-topic - I should have started a new one. If we disagree on anything, it's only about emphasis. And just for the record: I too find the collapses suspicious, especially WTC7, and it was the eyewitness testimony, terrible treatment and conveniently sudden death of Barry Jennings that really convinced me there's been a serious cover-up there. Not one aspect of the Official Yarn looks honest or makes sense on closer examination, and that certainly includes the explanations given for the unprecedented collapses of all three buildings.

[nathan28]

My essential beef is that 9/11 is a contextualizing issue but it's not the issue. I meant to state more clearly that I think the flippant dismissal of the basic breach of good faith that 9/11/01's OCT is problematic, but it's not the issue.

Well, there's no such thing as "the issue" per se, nathan - unless the issue is a fundamental respect for the truth, which is the same thing as an orientation towards reality. I mean, how would you react if someone said, "Well, we could all unite and Fight the Power effectively if you tinfoil-hatters would only learn some history and accept the basic and undeniable premise that the Eskimos were responsible for WWII." - ?

I'd say: Nope, sorry, you're not on. Reality is not optional, least of all for those of us who aren't millionaires. And the point about 9/11 is that it's still going strong. I was neither joking nor exaggerating when I called it "the defining event of the 21st century". Both Blair and Obama have name-checked it for their own nefarious purposes in the last month alone. It's still doing sterling service, both as a universal casus belli and as an excuse for domestic repression and fiscal robbery.

And if any one thing is preventing the emergence of a strong grass-roots opposition, then it's the stubborn (indeed rabid) refusal of both* liberals and authoritarian leftists to address the reality of 9/11 with anything approaching honesty. Reality is not optional. You get punished if you try to ignore it. QED.

*Cockburn. Taibbi. Monbiot. Rushkoff. (Anyone who wants to can extend this list of prominent left/liberal opinion-leaders.)

I generally disagree that arguments over historical points are that effective, politically, in and of themselves, save as short-hand for something else; part of the problem I have is that 9/11 was really a continuation of the exact same problems that led to Iran-Contra & BCCI, which have never been resolved or even brought into public debate. And I do believe that pattern of willed, deliberate and motivated misinformation concealing extragovernmental (and legitimate) state action in service of a very discrete right-wing agenda which includes the methods of terror and drug prohibition is important to face.

But I won't disagree on the problem that duplicity by willed ignorance leads to difficulty. I don't see why these people on the authortarian left can't just spit out some boilerplate about why they're not interested, because, frankly, if you're after socialized welfare programs or worker control of production 9/11 is a tiny blip on the radar, so why do they get their panties in a knot over it?--or, I can, but my theory is simply the one you and Iroquois express, that they're too committed to state power in the abstract to acknowledge that in the particular it can be harmful.

[nathan28]

DYEW, apologies for throwing the thread off-topic - I should have started a new one. If we disagree on anything, it's only about emphasis. And just for the record: I too find the collapses suspicious, especially WTC7, and it was the eyewitness testimony, terrible treatment and conveniently sudden death of Barry Jennings that really convinced me there's been a serious cover-up there. Not one aspect of the Official Yarn looks honest or makes sense on closer examination, and that certainly includes the explanations given for the unprecedented collapses of all three buildings.

Yes, my apologies as well. Want to start a germane thread for our irrelevant our contentions? I, likewise, find the collapses suspicious, but I don't think there's an active cover-up, though, because all the evidence imploded on itself.

And on edit, at this point, the simple fact that the addicted-to-authority-and-legitimacy left doesn't give a damn about the freaking 9/11 paper trail indicates to me that any sort of look into what happened, be it CD or otherwise, is valid, in that regards.

[dbcooper41]

it looks like the fire line in the pic is the 90th floor fires.
has anyone seen mention of fires on the 22nd floor, other than what i posted yesterday?
"DoYouEverWonder", it looks like something was set off at 10:18("smoke jets") if i'm understanding your notes correctly. is that when they first occured, you first noticed them or is that the closest time on a photo time/date stamp.
perhaps a"smoke screen" was set up to obscure soon to occur events?

[dbcooper41]

this tidbit about the 22nd floor is also interesting to me.

http://ask.metafilter.com/36988/WTC-and-Choppers

Quote:
"But on the morning of September 11, a different scene lay below Semendinger’s helicopter. Through gaps in the thick smoke erupting from the ruptured tower, Semendinger saw no one on the roof. The reason why was brutally obvious: the doors leading to the roof were locked.

These doors were locked by order of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ), owner of the Trade Center. They were locked in part because of concerns about suicides, daredevil stunts and possible theft or vandalism of the millions of dollars worth of broadcasting equipment on the roof. Locking the doors also effectively barred any possibility of a rooftop rescue.
Authorization and the means to unlock those heavy steel doors came from a security center located on the 22nd floor. But the security center wasn’t able to help. Falling debris knocked it out almost as soon as the first airliner hit the tower.



? now how exactly did a plane hitting the top of the building "knock out" the security center on the 22nd floor?

according to this there was a security center on the 22nd floor. it is not listed on cnn's page of tennants.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/20880

Reiss took the lead in the response to the 1993 terrorist bombing at the WTC, and it was reported that -- “As Special Assistant to the Director, he managed the design and construction team that restored the World Trade Center’s infrastructure, allowing the Twin Towers to reopen within a month.” [25] At the time he was put in charge of reconstruction, “a job that required him to meet with top brass twice a day.” Reiss said about this period -- “there were so many innovations we made…. After the 1993 bombing, we implemented a ten-year redevelopment program. We were spending half a billion dollars on upgrades. It was an engineer’s dream.” [26]

Part of these upgrades involved constructing new command and control centers throughout the buildings. A new Security Command Center was built on the 22nd floor of the north tower (WTC 1), and a new Operations Control Center was constructed in the B1 level of the south tower (WTC2). [27] Additionally, NYC officials responded to the 1993 bombing by establishing The Office of Emergency Management (OEM), over a period of years, “to promote unified operations between and among the various city emergency responder departments.” The OEM was controversial, in that it was not appreciated by the NYPD, which already had an emergency center. But ultimately, “on September 11, 2001, the OEM center located at WTC 7 became ineffective as WTC 7 was evacuated.” [28] During Rudy Giuliani’s run for President, he and his former employee Jerome Hauer traded accusations about who made the choice of putting the OEM in WTC 7. [29]

so after the plane hit, and before the collapse began, " At 8:47 a.m., WTC security reported a fire on the 22nd floor.", a fire was reported 71 floors down from impact, in the same area as a security ccc(which had the keys to the roof hatch).
ok

[DoYouEverWonder]

DYEW, apologies for throwing the thread off-topic - I should have started a new one. If we disagree on anything, it's only about emphasis. And just for the record: I too find the collapses suspicious, especially WTC7, and it was the eyewitness testimony, terrible treatment and conveniently sudden death of Barry Jennings that really convinced me there's been a serious cover-up there. Not one aspect of the Official Yarn looks honest or makes sense on closer examination, and that certainly includes the explanations given for the unprecedented collapses of all three buildings.

Yes, my apologies as well. Want to start a germane thread for our irrelevant our contentions? I, likewise, find the collapses suspicious, but I don't think there's an active cover-up, though, because all the evidence imploded on itself.

And on edit, at this point, the simple fact that the addicted-to-authority-and-legitimacy left doesn't give a damn about the freaking 9/11 paper trail indicates to me that any sort of look into what happened, be it CD or otherwise, is valid, in that regards.

Thanks. I knew under the curmudgeon exteriors was a pair of gentlemen.

[DoYouEverWonder]

it looks like the fire line in the pic is the 90th floor fires.
has anyone seen mention of fires on the 22nd floor, other than what i posted yesterday?
"DoYouEverWonder", it looks like something was set off at 10:18("smoke jets") if i'm understanding your notes correctly. is that when they first occured, you first noticed them or is that the closest time on a photo time/date stamp.
perhaps a"smoke screen" was set up to obscure soon to occur events?

The times and locations came from first hand reports by members of FDNY. I did this work a long... time ago and I'd have to really dig to reconstruct it, if I even could anymore. Most of the reports that I used for references are no longer available, but I'm pretty sure I've got hard copies buried somewhere.

Edit to add link:

Here's one of the sources that I used -

One Stop Shop in Structural Fire Engineering, Professor Colin Bailey, University of Manchester.
World Trade Center Towers Collapse, New York

http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/projec ... Center.htm

[82_28]

Here is what I told people nearly a decade ago who asked me what I thought about 9-11.

1) Money was put up front by some entity to get a job done. Doesn't matter who -- it was laundered endlessly no doubt. The money was put up. The op was paid for.

2) It is impossible for all photos of said terrorists to be available 24 hours after the "attacks", but not have them 24 hours BEFORE the attacks. (this is an angle that I have not read elsewhere and I don't know why the mainstream never jumped on it or questioned the nil chance of this possibility. As I have said elsewhere, I have spoken with military people who become amazed by this point when I have brought it up.)

3) The plan was hatched before the cold war dinosaurs got caught in the largely open source snare known today as the Internet.

4) We know who did it. It was not Islamic radicals.

5) Now that said Internet exists they are blowing chaff up our asses in order to conceal their identity.

6) The great power of the Internet has already revealed the culprits. Opensource, distributed computing and intelligence.

7) We know who it is -- we already know the truth. Again -- chaff up our asses.

Had the Internet existed circa JFK assassination, the truth would have been known within a week.

9) They think they are smarter than us.

10) Yes, they are much more evil than anything many of us will ever fathom.

11) But we are here. Networked like never before.

And my addendum Feb 2010:

12) They are trying to triangulate the people who get it. PKD's Homoplasmate if you will.

# The Empire is the institution, the codification, of derangement; it is insane and imposes its insanity on us by violence, since its nature is a violent one.

# To fight the Empire is to be infected by its derangement. This is a paradox: whoever defeats a segment of the Empire becomes the Empire; it proliferates like a virus, imposing its form on its enemies. Thereby it becomes its enemies.

# Against the Empire is posed the living information, the plasmate or physician, which we know as the Holy Spirit or Christ discorporate. These are the two principles, the dark (the Empire) and the light (the plasmate). In the end, Mind will give victory to the latter. Each of us will die or survive according to which he aligns himself and his efforts with. Each of us contains a component of each. Eventually one or the other component will triumph in each human. Zoroaster knew this, because the Wise Mind informed him. He was the first savior. Four have lived in all. A fifth is about to be born, who will differ from the others: he will rule and he will judge us.

# Since the universe is actually composed of information, then it can be said that information will save us. This is the saving gnosis which the Gnostics sought. There is no other road to salvation. However, this information—or more precisely the ability to read and understand this information, the universe as information—can only be made available to us by the Holy Spirit. We cannot find it on our own. Thus it is said that we are saved by the grace of God and not by good works, that all salvation belongs to Christ, who, I say, is a physician.

# In seeing Christ in a vision I correctly said to him, "We need medical attention." In the vision there was an insane creator who destroyed what he created, without purpose; which is to say, irrationally. This is the deranged streak in the Mind; Christ is our only hope, since we cannot now call on Asklepios. Asklepios came before Christ and raised a man from the dead; for this act, Zeus had a Kyklopes slay him with a thunderbolt. Christ also was killed for what he had done: raising a man from the dead. Elijah brought a boy back to life and disappeared soon thereafter in a whirlwind. "The Empire never ended."

# The physician has come to us a number of times under a number of names. But we are not yet healed. The Empire identified him and ejected him. This time he will kill the Empire by phagocytosis.

http://deoxy.org/pkd_tcs.htm

[82_28]

Another thing.

Why was 911 universally agreed upon as the emergency number one calls in well, an emergency? This shit was hatched about the time of 911 universality. I really would like to read the history of everybody coming "online" with a single number everywhere that does the same thing.

The crime of 911 was at least a ten to twenty year old plan.

[MacCruiskeen]

Another thing.

Why was 911 universally agreed upon as the emergency number one calls in well, an emergency? This shit was hatched about the time of 911 universality. I really would like to read the history of everybody coming "online" with a single number everywhere that does the same thing.

The crime of 911 was at least a ten to twenty year old plan.

Good point. I'd also like to know exactly when, and by exactly whom, the attacks were first referred to as "nine-eleven". It wasn't inevitable that the day would acquire that name. ("Black Tuesday" or "WTC Day" would have done just as well, for instance.) Now, everyone in an emergency is reminded of the attacks every time they pick up the phone and dial.

In 1968, 9-1-1 was established as the national emergency number for the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-1-1

But I think it's much more likely that the attacks were designed to coincide with the emergency number than that the number was designed to coincide with the attacks (33 years later).

[psynapz]

12) They are trying to triangulate the people who get it. PKD's Homoplasmate if you will.

Then are we safe here?

[dbcooper41]

psynapz
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:02 am

Re: New aerial NYPD photos of 9/11 attack released

82_28 wrote:
12) They are trying to triangulate the people who get it. PKD's Homoplasmate if you will.



Then are we safe here?

12) They are trying to triangulate the people who get it. PKD's Homoplasmate if you will.

Then are we safe here?

no more so than where you were.

[jingofever]

I'd also like to know exactly when, and by exactly whom, the attacks were first referred to as "nine-eleven".

From this article:

Nov 7, 2001 - Based on recent news stories, the verdict appears to be in: The phrase of choice is the date alone -- "September 11" or "9/11," pronounced "nine eleven." (Many, including me, thought the pronunciation "nine-one-one," as in the emergency phone number, would prevail, but "nine eleven" is ...

That is as much as Google will show.

Harrisonburg Couple Sets Up 'Nine-Eleven Fund' from 19 September 2001.