JackRiddler wrote:Hate rhetoric?
From the OP:
AlicetheKurious wrote:A conspiracy, in fact, something at which the zionists excel, with one innovation that makes this sort of conspiracy unique: much of it is carried out in plain sight. The zionists have a long record of stealing everything from culture to land to history to money to technology and claiming that it was their own all along, but this capacity to engage in egregious and extremely damaging conspiracies in the broad light of day while at the same time demanding the moral high ground against anyone who dares to point out the obvious, that's new.
(If not for that, I probably wouldn't be in this thread taking it "off topic.")
This is not hate speech, these are facts. Extremely well-documented facts. The zionists excel at conspiracies. The establishment of the zionist state was itself a conspiracy, indeed a transnational conspiracy. It involved all the classic elements of conspiracies: secret objectives, deception, underhanded negotiations, blackmail, bribery, collaboration with global organized crime to smuggle weapons and launder money, gross violations of the law, including mass murder and mass theft, a cover-up of the facts and bold-faced denial. Indeed, the British solemnly promised the Arabs that Palestine would be free both before and after they signed a secret agreement with zionist leaders to make Palestine into a "Jewish national home". Until nearly the last minute, the zionists continued to strenuously deny that they were even planning to establish a "Jewish state" in Palestine and swore that the rights of the Palestinian inhabitants would not be violated! The acquisition of nuclear bombs by the zionist entity was a conspiracy. Israel's massive and aggressive espionage activities in the US, and the capacity to ensure that very few perps are ever charged or tried, are clear evidence of a conspiracy. Getting the U.S. under Reagan to bomb Libya based on false information disguised by the Mossad as originating with Libyan intelligence, was a conspiracy. The massive invasion and occupation of Beirut, which was portrayed as a "response" to the attempted assassination of the Israeli ambassador to London by unidentified assailants, and the planning and logistics of the Sabra and Shatila Massacres comprised an elaborate conspiracy. The monolithic on-message role of the 'mainstream' media in uniformly promoting zionist propaganda, and systematically whitewashing or suppressing information about Israeli crimes, is a de facto conspiracy. These are very big conspiracies, and they are the ones whose details are well-known and documented.
As for stealing, that's what zionism is all about, and the zionists do have a long record of stealing everything, from culture to land to money to technology and claiming that it was their own all along. Culture: I hate to break it to you, but falafel is not an "Israeli" dish, neither is hommos. The very word "sabra", which Israelis use to describe Jews born in Palestine, is an appropriation of the Arabic word "saber", which refers to a kind of indigenous cactus with very deep roots that the Palestinians consider to be a symbol of their people because it literally cannot be eradicated, no matter how many times its body is cut down. Even the freaking keffiyeh, the popular symbol of Arab nationalism, they can't even leave that alone:
The Jewish “keffiyeh”
The story of this emblematic scarf is certainly not lacking in colour. Two years ago, two Israelis, industrial designer Moshe Harel and sculptor Gabriel Ben-Haim, created a new model: blue stars of David crisscrossing on a white background and the edge resembling the Israeli flag. The idea took time to come through but the “keffiyeh” is now available on the internet and in the Jewish district of Old Jerusalem. “We need to identify ourselves”, justifies Moshe Harel. To him, “if Jews and Arabs wear their scarf with their symbol, there’s no problem”.
Except for the Palestinians who feel dispossessed.
“I hate the idea” confesses Hasan Nusseibeh, 27, a teacher at Al-Quds University. “They stole our land I guess it’s normal that they steal our Keffiyeh too”, comments his little sister Sahar, a student. Their brother Munir reminds that this country dress is part of the culture of the region and that “Israelis are looking for new bonds with this ground”. He believes that the “keffiyeh” is only another “effort” they’re making in this sense. This young lawyer then enumerates the previous cases of cultural appropriation: traditional dress and embroidery, falafel and hummous. “Soon they’ll claim that the Konafa (Arabic pastry) is Jewish!” jokes Ma'moun M. Kassem, responsible for an Italian NGO, who accuses Israelis of being “arrogant” and “thieves”.
Moshe Harel obviously defends himself. A long time ago Jews wore the keffiyeh and that’s where the talit (the prayer shawl) comes from, he assures. The scarf was kept in “Arab society, because it is more conservative”. And Palestinians “shouldn’t resent the fact that we appreciate this element”. According to this businessman, “when you eat the same food, sing the same songs and wear the same clothes you grow closer. Maybe it could be a step towards peace”.
Ofer Neiman, an Israeli teacher, is actually closer to the Arabs, especially as to their opinion on this textile invention. “The keffiyeh symbolises the link of the Palestinians with their land”, states the 37 year old computer science teacher. “Zionists want to imitate” this aspect of Palestinian culture.
Sahar Nusseibeh, aged 20, fears that the bond to their earth may suffer the same fate that the earth itself. Years ago, “the country was named Palestine and everyone knew it was Palestine. Now, everyone calls it Israel”, asserts the young student. “I guess the same thing will happen with the keffiyeh. In a few years, everyone will say that’s it’s Israeli”. Link
As for the theft of land, is "Israel" based on anything else? Are you ignorant or shameless enough that you will deny this? As of 1953, although the Jewish settlers and the newly-established zionist state had already confiscated vast amounts of Palestinian property, they wanted to steal even more:
The juridical completion of the land-robbery was, however, not quite accomplished yet. One loose end had to be gathered up. There were still tracts of land that had been taken away from Arab peasants, during the war or right after it, whose robbery could still not be justified under any law, in spite of the wide-open character of the measures already passed. Besides, the whole operation could scarcely be considered cleaned up till a show had been made of offering some compensation.
The task was met handily by the Land Acquisition Law of March 1953. It did not bother with any niggling piecemeal pretexts for stealing land from Arabs. In one fell swoop it came out with a formula which automatically legalized any and all land-robberies that had already taken place.
The way this is done is surely a juridical curiosity. The heart of the law is in Paragraph 2: land “will become the property of the Development Authority …. free of any encumbrance” if the minister in charge certifies “by signed document” that it fulfills the following three provisions:
1. On April 1, 1952, was not in the possession of its owners;
2. Was used or earmarked within the period from May 4, 1948 to April 1, 1952, for purposes of essential development, settlement, or security;
3. Is still required for one of these purposes ... [45]
The crux is in point (1), which carefully applies the law to any land that “was not in the possession of its owners” for any reason whatsoever—the important reason being, of course, the simple fact that the owner had been illegally kicked off. Link
Not just land, though:
Theft of Palestinian property:
After the conquest [of Jaffa, a large Palestinian city], Irgun forces indulged in widespread looting. Reported Jon Kimche, former editor of the Jewish Observer and Middle East Review, the official organ of the Zionist Federation of Britain:
"For the first time in the still undeclared war, a Jewish force commenced to loot in wholesale fashion." 4 At first the young Irgunists pillaged only dresses, blouses and ornaments for their girl friends. But this discrimination was soon abandoned. Everything that was movable was carried from Jaffa-furniture, carpets, pictures, crockery and pottery, jewelry and cutlery.
The occupied parts of Jaffa were stripped, and yet another traditional military characteristic raised its ugly head. Historian Michael Palumbo wrote of Jaffa: "Not content with looting, the Irgun fighters smashed or destroyed everything which they could not carry off, including pianos, lamps and window-panes." Ben Gurion afterwards admitted that Jews of all classes poured into Jaffa from Tel Aviv to participate in what he called "a shameful and distressing spectacle."
When future Israeli Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion learned that Jaffa had fallen, he wrote in his diary: "Jaffa will be a Jewish city. War is war." To accomplish this, Israel set up a housing committee that was to allocate Palestinian homes and apartments to newly arrived Jewish families on certain dates. But Israelis ignored the dates and occupied the abandoned residences on a first-come, first possess basis. Israeli immigrant chief Giora Yoseftal reported: "Thus the populating of Jaffa was achieved by continuous invasions and counter invasions [of unauthorized immigrants." Within a short time some Jews had moved into abandoned Palestinian homes in Jaffa. Although no figures appear to be available for Jaffa, Palestinian bank accounts in Haifa containing 1.5 billion Palestinian pounds were seized by Israel.
There was also desecration of Christian churches. Father Deleque, a Catholic priest, reported:
"Jewish soldiers broke down the doors of my church and robbed many precious and sacred objects. Then they threw the statues of Christ down into a nearby garden." He added that Jewish leaders had reasssured him that religious buildings would be respected, "but their deeds do not correspond to their words."
Link
All men of military age were sent to camps. The residents of Lydda were promised that if they congregated in mosques and churches they would be safe. On July 12, a brief firefight broke out in Lydda between Zionist terrorists and a Jordanian reconnaissance team in which two Zionists were killed. The retaliation was terrible. The Zionist commander ordered his troops to kill anyone on the streets. The Zionist terrorists massacred 426 men, women, and children. Zionist terrorists then attacked the people sheltering in mosques and churches, killing 176 people in Dahmash mosque alone. This is important to remember. The massacre and ethnic cleansing of Lydda and Ramleh was not just racist, but also sectarian. Churches and mosques were desecrated, yet there has been a deafening silence on this issue from both Christian and Muslim leaders in the West.
The same day Ben Gurion ordered the expulsion of all Palestinians from the towns. The order said: 'The residents of Lydda must be expelled quickly without attention to age.' It was signed by Lieutenant-Colonel Yitzhak Rabin, operations chief of the Lydda-Ramleh attack and later Israeli military chief of staff and Prime Minister. A similar order was issued about Ramleh. Out of the 19,000 people who formerly lived in Lydda, only 1,052 were permitted to remain. Israeli historian Benny Morris reported:
'All the Israelis who witnessed the events agreed that the exodus, under a hot July sun, was an extended episode of suffering for the refugees, especially from Lydda. Some were stripped by soldiers of their valuables as they left town or at checkpoints along the way.... One Israeli soldier ... recorded vivid impressions of the thirst and hunger of the refugees on the roads, and of how 'children got lost' and of how a child fell into a well and drowned, ignored, as his fellow refugees fought each other to draw water. Another soldier described the spoor left by the slow-shuffling columns, 'to begin with [jettisoning] utensils and furniture and in the end, bodies of men, women and children, scattered along the way!' 'Quite a few refugees died-from exhaustion, dehydration and disease-along the roads eastwards, from Lydda and Ramleh, before reaching temporary rest near and in Ramallah. Nimr Khatib put the death toll among the Lydda refugees during the trek eastward at 335; Arab Legion commander John Glubb Pasha more carefully wrote that 'nobody will ever know how many children died.'
Just as Bosnians were looted and plundered by the Serbs, and Jews looted by the Nazis, the same happened to the Palestinians of Lydda and Ramleh. Zionist terrorists searched Arabs to steal their possessions and indiscriminately murdered many. The Economist reported: 'The Arab refugees were systematically stripped of all their belongings before they were sent on their trek to the frontier. Household belongings, stores, clothing, all had to be left behind.' One youthful Palestinian survivor recalled: 'Two of my friends were killed in cold blood. One was carrying a box presumed to have money and the other a pillow which was believed to contain valuables. A friend of mine resisted and was killed in front of me. He had 400 Palestinian pounds in his pocket.'
After the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, looting began in Lydda and Ramleh. Israeli historian Simha Flapan reported: 'With the population gone, the Israeli soldiers proceeded to loot the two towns in an outbreak of mass pillaging that the officers could neither prevent nor control .... Even the soldiers from the Palmach-most of whom came from or were preparing to join kibbutzim-took part, stealing mechanical and agricultural equipment. Israeli troops carted away 1,800 truck loads of Palestinian property, including a button factory, a sausage factory, a soft drinks plant, a macaroni factory, a textile mill, 7,000 retail shops, 1,000 warehouses and 500 workshops.' In the light of Jewish groups lobbying Swiss banks to restore Jewish property looted by the Nazis, should not the same happen in this case regarding Palestinian property?
...
350 people died of exhaustion and dehydration before reaching their final destination. Again, in echoes of Bosnia, the Zionist forces were guilty of rape against Palestinian women and girls. Aharon Cizling, Israeli Agriculture Minister, stated in July, 1948:
'...It's been said that there were cases of rape in Ramla. I can forgive rape, but I will not forgive other acts which seem to me much worse. When they enter a town and forcibly remove rings from the fingers and jewellery from someone's neck, that's a very grave matter... Many are guilty of it.'(Tom Segev, 1949, The First Israelis, p. 71-72)
It was clear that the massacre and ethnic cleansing was meant as a warning to other Arabs as to what would happen unless they fled. Yigal Allon stated in mid-July 1948 about the ethnic cleansing at Lydda and Ramleh:
'Moreover, the phenomenon of the flight of tens of thousands will no doubt cause demoralisation in every Arab area [the refugees] reach... This victory will yet have great effect on other sectors. '(Benny Morris, p. 211 Israel: A History, p. 218) Link
See also: Looting, Looting and More Looting
And, after a series of massacres that terrorized the Palestinian owners into fleeing their homes, sometimes just a few hundred metres away, the Israelis declared the properties "abandoned" and established the orwellian "Custodian of Absentees' Property", which was legally obligated to preserve the properties of the refugees until they could be returned to their legal owners, but which instead proceeded to hand them over to Jewish colonists:
The nascent State of Israel immediately began to reap the fruits of this property for its economic prosperity. The Custodian of Absentees’ Property held some 21,487 leasing contracts during the years 1948-1949 in the urban sector, which brought about 501,000 Israeli pounds into the new state’s coffers. During the years 1952-1953, some 60,504 properties were leased, yielding revenues of 3,583,543 Israeli pounds for the state. A total of 244,564 properties in the urban sector were leased during the years 1948-1953, producing revenues of 11,453,543 Israeli pounds.6 The state obtained these handsome sums from assets it plundered from the Palestinian refugees. These sums were gained in addition, of course, to the revenues from agricultural crops that the Palestinian refugees did not have time to reap. The Custodian of Absentees’ Property wrote to the prime minister on 24 March 1949:
“Moveable assets were collected in the cities and abandoned villages and brought to warehouses. After they were registered and assessed by experts, most were sold to the Israel Defense Force, government departments, the Jewish Agency and individuals.
[…]
Most of the industrial facilities and workshops (lathes, etc.) were transferred to the military industry – other types of various industrial facilities in the cities, flour mills and ice factories, etc., were operated by cooperative institutions and by individuals.
The lands are leased to agricultural settlements and farmers by the Ministry of Agriculture – some of the orchards are tended by this department and some are leased by the Ministry of Agriculture to agricultural settlements and to individuals.
This department tended broad expanses of olive orchards (50,000 dunams) and thus achieved several objectives:
A. We supplied 500 tons of oil to the state’s economy.
B. [We supplied] some of the product (150 tons) to the United States in exchange for a division.
C. We employed thousands of fellahim in this work, who earned a livelihood from harvesting the olives.
A. An important economic branch was conquered and integrated into the state’s economy.
[…] The Village Department coordinated the tractors. After first providing the army with what it needed, the rest were distributed to agricultural settlements as approved by the Ministry of Agriculture.
[…]
The revenues from liquidating the moveable assets, rents, and from the agricultural sector at the end of February add up to nearly 3 and ¾ million Israeli pounds.7
But the plunder did not stop here. In August 1951, in the framework of the Monetary Report for the Year Ending March 31, 1951, the Custodian of Absentees’ Property reported to the minister of finance that: “The large revenues in the section are collected at the expense of the absentees, with a total of 582,000 Israeli pounds withdrawn from the absentees’ deposits in Barclays Bank.”8
Link
* "The army had the first choice of any goods and materials it might require. Next were the government offices, the war disabled, the Jewish Agency, the local authorities and public bodies, such as Hadassah." The army also needed most of the workshop equipment such as cabinet-making shops, locksmiths-works, turneries, iron-works, tin-works and the like. Industrial plants which could be operated on their existing sites were leased out by contract, "whenever possible," according to Shafrir. Plants which no one wanted to lease were sold to the highest bidder. (1949, The First Israelis, p. 72-73)
* "With the intensification of immigration in the summer of 1948, the institutions which looked after the immigrants themselves began to demand that parts of the city which were still under occupation be made available to them. The property included warehouses and shops from which the merchandise had yet to be removed, as well as fully equipped workshops and plants. In Haifa the inspector's office began to issue apartments to the Absorption Department as early as July. The intention was to proceed through the city, quarter by quarter, allocating the apartments and business premises, after the goods had already been taken out of them. But the order was not followed. Hundreds of immigrant families were sent to take possession of apartments, and this caused confusion both in the collecting of goods and in the distribution of apartments. In Jaffa the situation was considerably worse. A certain part of the city was scheduled to be opened on September 10, and a particular allocation of houses was actually agreed upon-to be given to the Absorption Department, the army, the government officials who had been transferred from Jerusalem, and for the children of the settlements who had been evacuated during the war and who had been living in Tel Aviv schools, as well as to the soldiers' families. The Tel Aviv Absorption Department ignored this agreement and went ahead and organized a mass invasion of hundreds of families. ..before the date that was originally agreed upon for the opening of the city to civilians. The government appointed a committee to handle the distribution of apartments in Jaffa. The committee met and reached authoritative conclusions. But once again no heed was paid to the proper agreement. This time the social welfare officers sent hundreds of soldiers' families. Thus the populating of Jaffa was achieved by continuous invasions and counter-invasions [of unauthorized immigrants]." (1949, Tom Segev, The First Israelis, p. 75-76) Link
JackRidder wrote:From the past:
AlicetheKurious wrote:
That happens to be an apt symbolic representation of a phenomenon that is all too real: the US-Israeli web of violence and dispossession in which millions of vulnerable people and entire nations are preyed upon, from the Middle East to Africa to Latin America and beyond. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is inaccurate or "anti-semitic".
JackRidder wrote:"Zionazi"
The term describes zionists who, using identical justifications, deny people their basic human rights, and engage in acts of mass murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide against a population under their total control whose only "crime" is that they are the wrong religion. If you don't like the extremely apt comparison to nazis (one which, incidentally, was made early on by
Jeshaya Leibowitz, an Israeli Jewish thinker, and since then by many, many others, including the late Israel Shahak and Norman Finkelstein, and
British MP Gerald Kaufmann and of course, by the Palestinian victims themselves, who ought to know), you might take that up with the zionists who act like nazis, not with those who point it out. And tellingly, you continue to show very strange priorities for someone with your avowed views.
JackRiddler wrote:Theories of Jewish control, don't feel like looking all of it up. People can start here:
JackRiddler wrote:Our debates on the origins, history and interests involved in the Persian Gulf wars of 1990-2009+, the Bush regime, US imperialism, Kissinger, oil, the Carter Doctrine, your theories of "Zionist" drivers behind the JFK assassination and the US invasions of Vietnam and Afghanistan, your defense of the term "Zionazi," and many other matters related to your reductionist world-view and de facto apologia for the "US interests" undermined by exclusively "Zionist" treachery, have already been enacted in great detail on many prior threads. In retrospect, too bad it wasn't all in one.
.
Quoting
yourself? How pathetic. How predictable. I asked for ONE quote FROM ME to back up each of your defamatory allegations. Just one. Instead, you quote yourself, or send readers on a wild goose chase.
Just to remind you, those allegations were that I:
A. post "
hate rhetoric";
B. "
invent additional crimes of the zionists", and
C. present any "theory of global
Jewish control"
In case you are confused, here are some helpful definitions:
Hate speech is, outside the law, any communication which disparages a person or a group on the basis of some characteristic such as race or sexual orientation.
in·vent
/ɪnˈvɛnt/ Show Spelled[in-vent] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.to originate or create as a product of one's own ingenuity, experimentation, or contrivance: to invent the telegraph.
2.to produce or create with the imagination: to invent a story.
3.to make up or fabricate (something fictitious or false): to invent excuses.
As for C, you have yet to provide one shred of evidence that I have anything against Jews "per se" as you put it, or that I bear or encourage any hostility at all against the Jewish faith or cultural identities, or that I, unlike you, cannot or will not distinguish between being Jewish and being a zionist. I have provided ample proof that zionism is a racist, dehumanizing, destructive ideology and that its adherents consistently violate laws and basic standards of human decency in pursuit of their illegitimate and criminal objectives; that it is a very real scourge to countless innocent lives, and seriously threatens the lives of countless more.
It's really very straightforward, I don't see how it could be put more simply. If you, 17breezes and nathan don't get it, that is your problem. Solve your mental issues elsewhere, because no way am I willing to push the victims of zionism under a bus by failing to point out the FACTS just to satisfy your neuroses.
Threads typical of those I post at Democratic Underground about Israel:
Greek TV news on Israeli exercise and plans to hit Iran soon. (Jan 2008)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 124x215962Editorial in Wall Street Journal says: "Israel Is Committing War Crimes" (Jan 2009)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 124x243461Recognizing Israel's right to massacre police cadets during their graduation ceremony?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... _id=231284I don't feel like fishing every single one out for you.
I would be posting a lot of what you post here, but a) you're usually faster and b) I don't care to be associated with you. (
You prefer to occasionally channel Abe Foxman and be associated with the likes of 17breezes -- chacun son gout -- Alice). You've monopolized (and distorted) the issue here with your brand of invective, and you mark off your territory very jealously. Typical of fanatics is that they're going to reserve their worst, not for those who disagree with them about everything, but for those who agree with them on many things, but not on ALL things.
You're not only delusional and paranoid, but a hypocrite: I don't "reserve my worst" for the likes of you -- this very thread is a case in point. It is invariably
you who attack
me with 'your brand of invective', making stuff up, putting words in my mouth, then copping out when I demand that you support your nasty insinuations and your crazy accusations with real evidence. Apparently even this modest demand is too much for you to handle. Instead, you keep making baseless defamatory accusations and posting personal insults. As I indicated earlier, enough said.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
by JackRiddler » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:00 pm 
