Polish President Lech Kaczynski killed in plane crash.

[JackRiddler]

Very interesting - decapitation of the government, military command and leading party, leaving only one man. Of course that's going to raise suspicions. Of course, planes crash all the time. Among frequent flyers, I can't think of one case where a major pro sports team was killed, but so many when it happened to political leaders and politically inconvenient people.

[IanEye]

Athletes, teams who have died in plane crashes

[JackRiddler]

IanEye! I certainly hope you, your wife and your baby are all doing better.

Athletes, teams who have died in plane crashes

Ha! Teach me a lesson.

I parsed it carefully, though:

"a major pro sports team was killed"

- not lone athletes, or non-pro teams (too many). Major pro teams do fly constantly as groups, and my thumb says it's a group comparable in size to "politicians." (Major would be like the four main sports here, or football anywhere. NASCAR's major, but it's not a sport.) Looking over the list, there were a few. I never knew about Torino and Man United, or the US figure skaters!

[IanEye]

IanEye! I certainly hope you, your wife and your baby are all doing better.

Yes, Jack. Thank you.

to be honest, i remember that list from 8bit. i am pretty sure he linked to it because of that baseball player who died on 10-11-06 because upside down it looks like 09-11-01.

so, i just thought i would throw it out there....

[Sweejak]

Athletes, teams who have died in plane crashes

Let me please introduce myself (whoo whoo)
I'm a man of wealth and taste (whoo whoo)
And I laid traps for troubadours (whoo whoo)
Who get killed before they reached Bombay (whoo whoo, whoo whoo)

I seem to recall an air crash that involved a plane load of Spanish matadors and I left it at that, but googling it up it may have been referring to Paul McCartney.

[Sweejak]

I don't know, I get suspicious when so much MSM gets agreeable, like the sinking of the S. Korean ship, but there seems to be a genuine desire for reconciliation. Reconciliation and peace breaking out on the other hand is a definite threat to some.

RUSSIAN RESPONSE WINS POLES' HEARTS by Gregory White, Wall Street Journal

Russian state television, which had relegated a hard-hitting Polish-made film about Katyn to a little-watched channel a few weeks ago, decided Sunday to re-air it in prime time on the main national network. "We hadn't planned to show it since it's a controversial film," said a spokeswoman for the network Sunday. "But we're showing it out of respect for the Poles' tragedy."

http://www.russiaotherpointsofview.com/ ... arts-.html

It is something of a paradox that this latest tragedy to befall the Polish nation may actually prove to help the process of reconciliation between the two nations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8615945.stm

Language barrier and a president determined to land – theories swirl over Polish air disaster
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ap ... r-disaster

Eyewitness accounts of Polish plane crash
http://en.rian.ru/video/20100412/158542562.html

[seemslikeadream]

7616 days ...

s this the end of the Third Republic?

In the article "Fate" I wrote about porażających analogies related to the tragic disaster at Smolensk, all the time reflecting on their meaning and importance. Correctly by my favorite columnist, Rafal Ziemkiewicz in a column for the newspaper that the atheists is easier, because everything can explain the coincidence, as Raphael Ziemkiewicz can not in themselves atheists skrzesać naive faith that is so full of symbols of death has no meaning . Therefore, reflecting on the symbolism of the event, I discovered yet another analogy, which frankly knocked me off my feet.
Reflecting on the Polish history in recent years, namely the period of the Second Republic, which ran out less than 2 months to 21 years duration, I noticed with astonishment that, in less than 2 months and III of the Republic will celebrate its 21 anniversary. When I counted the days carefully, taking into account leap years, and keeping strictly to the rules got a result that shocked me.
7616 Second Republic lasted exactly as much as it's been since June 4, 1989, until the tragedy of Smolensk, about 10 April 2010. Neither half of the difference, which in such a large scale, numbering one thousand days, zakrawa the mockery of the theory of probability:
CALCULATION
Second republic from 11/11/1918 to 17/09/1939

20 full years - 20 * 365 + 5 days = 7305 days leap
1918 - 51 days (from 11.11 inclusive)
1939 - 260 days (to 17.09 inclusive)

TOTAL: 7616 DAYS

III Commonwealth from 4.06.1989 to 10.04.2010

20 full years - 20 * 365 + 5 days = 7305 days leap
1989 - 211 days (to 04.06 inclusive)
2010 - 100 days (to 10.04 inclusive)

TOTAL: 7616 DAYS

Interesting? Probably, but the scale of its improbability, in combination with previous analogies even paralyzing. What does it mean? I do not know. However, I have the impression that the April 10, proves to be just symbolic but not immediately apparent breakthrough, which closes the period of the Third Republic and the launch, what to Lech Kaczynski was a dream, a political program and now has become a political testament - the construction of the IV Republic, state strong, free from corruption, system, "Matuszewskis and kolesiostwa.

[elfismiles]

'Russia engineered air crash that killed President Kaczynski,' claims Polish MP
By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 8:09 AM on 13th April 2010
Comments (91) Add to My Stories The Russian government prevented the Polish president's plane from landing four times to divert him from a ceremony to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, according to an MP.

Artur Gorski said the Russians 'came up with some dubious reasons' that the aircraft couldn't land because they feared President Leck Kaczynski's presence would overshadow a similar event hosted by the Russian prime minister a few days before.
And their alleged plan ended in disaster when the Polish pilots made one final and disastrous attempt to land, killing Mr Kaczynski, his wife, and 94 others on board the plane.

Memorial: The coffin of Polish president Lech Kaczynski is laid out at the Presidential Palace chapel in Warsaw, Poland
'One version of events says that the plane approached the airport four times, because every time the Russians refused it permission to land - they wanted to send the plane with the president to an airport in Moscow or Minsk,' Mr Gorski claimed in an interview published in the newspaper Nasz Dziennik.

'They came up with some dubious reasons: that there was fog over the airport, and that the navigation system didn't work as it was under renovation, and that airport had a short landing strip.'
Enlarge Scene: This satellite image provided by DigitalGlobe shows the site, lower right, of a Tu-154 plane crash outside of Smolensk, Russia
The pilot: Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk was flying the Polish presidential plane that crashed near Smolensk airport
The claims were made as shocking new details emerged of the final minutes of the flight before it crashed into a Russian forest on Saturday morning.
One of the Russian air traffic controllers involved in the tragedy said he believes the Polish air force pilot Arkadiusz Protasiuk, 36, was under severe pressure 'to land at any cost' so that the president would not miss the commemoration of the death of 22,000 Poles slaughtered by Stalin.

But he claims there were also serious language problems between the control tower at the military airport near Smolensk and the crew as the aircraft began its descent, and final approach, 'without our permission'.
The crew failed to report to the ground their altitude readings, said Colonel Anatoly Muraviev, a former pilot.
He believes the captain 'was desperate to land because of the high ranking passengers he was carrying. It killed both the crew and the passengers.'

Mark of respect: NATO members' state flags fly at half-mast during an extraordinary meeting in Brussels to express its condolences to Poland
It was known that Mr Kaczynski once fired a flight crew when they refused to land at Tbilisi - and flew to another airport, he said.

'Now try to imagine yourself in chief pilot's shoes. Fear, false shame, thinking that going to another airport is a disgrace - all this led to the fact that the crew died and killed all the others. I am a former pilot myself, I understand all this very well.'
The tapes of the conversations with the flight crew have not been released - so it is unclear if there is specific evidence of an order to the captain from either the president or the military top brass on board.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown adds his name to the book of condolence, accompanied by his wife Sarah
Polish investigators said they will probe whether there were 'any suggestions made to the pilots' from other people aboard the plane.

Colonel Muraviev claimed there were a number of specific causes of the crash - 'weather conditions, maybe a mistake of the pilot who did not watch his altitude, and also the pilot's wish to land at any cost'.

He said the controllers and flight crew stumbled in Russian and broken English to understand each other in the final decisive seconds of the flight.

Col Muraviev claimed that the fog 'was worsening' as the Polish president's plane came into land. One flight had landed earlier but another had been redirected to Moscow.
Poignant: A minute's silence is observed during the NATO meeting for the 96 killed in the plane crash
Of Kaczynski's flight, he said: 'At first it was descending OK, according to the rules, no problems. Soon our air traffic controllers began to worry. The head of our group three times ordered the pilots to stop this attempt to land, and try one more time, while also preparing to fly to another airport because of bad visibility.

'The crew did not listen to him. So the traffic control warned them about bad visibility and the necessity to fly to another airport.
'The crew did not obey, so the controllers had only one thing to do - to carry on leading in the plane and see what happens. There was only one attempt to land and the plane crashed.'
Because it was a civilian flight, they did not have the authority to order them to another airport, he said.

He said 'mainly we spoke Russian to the crew, partly bad English. Understanding was hard.'

The Polish pilots 'began to land without our permission' and 'did not report to us with their altitude data', he added.
Another controller Pavel Plyusnin confirmed the understanding was '50-50' as the plane approached its tragic end.

'It was hard to guess here if the pilot understood us properly,' said Col Muraviev. 'The language barrier did not help of course. I think it could have affected the result of this flight along with other circumstances.'
The Polish air force yesterday defended father-of-two Captain Protasiuk, saying he 'often flew with the president and other VIPs'.

A spokesman said it was 'ruled out' that the president could have forced the pilot to land at Smolensk.

The body of Poland's first lady Maria Kaczynska was identified yesterday by her wedding ring - with her husband's name inscribed on the inside - and the colour of her finger nails. Many of the bodies are so badly mangled they will require DNA matching.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z0l0R5As3h

[Sweejak]

Well, here is a possibility, Kaczynsky wasn't invited, Tusk was, Kaczynsky and Tusk were political opponents in the last election. Now I haven't been able to reconstruct the actual protocol involved with Kaczynsky's flight, whether in the end they were welcomed, if it is a fact that he was not invited because I read it was Tusk who invited Putin etc.

There are good reasons (political ones) for the Russians to not invite Kaczynsky. Kaczinsky had a record of being anti-Soviet and Anti-Russian. Lunatic Saakashvilli gives him a great deal of praise, but I'm thinking of the support Kaczynsky gave to Saakashvilli over the silly "The Russians are shooting at me" incident at the border during the war. In the end he stopped well short short of confirming events.
To wit:
Georgia Blames Russia in Reported Shooting at Saakashvili Motorcade
http://news.antiwar.com/2008/11/23/geor ... motorcade/

But,

Polish motorcade shoot was 'Georgia stunt'
... it has now emerged that an alleged shooting incident a week before the Brussels NATO meeting, which involved the motorcade of the Georgian and Polish presidents, was a staged "stunt".

Special services in Warsaw say the alleged attack near the South Ossetian border was a provocation staged by the Georgians. A report by Poland's Internal Security Agency - the Agencja Bezpieczenstwa Wewnetrznego (ABW), published by the Dziennik newspaper, claims Georgia staged the incident for propaganda purposes.

... Initially, Warsaw blamed Russia for the incident. But now Polish security forces say it was staged by Tbilisi.

The Polish document points out that Saakashvili kept on smiling after the first shots and his bodyguards didn't react.

So that and other things like that would probably be cause to not invite Kaczynsky. A very shortsighted policy if you ask me. What could do more to add credibility to a reconcilliation, even one done for political reasons, than to have a person with Kaczynsky's cred be present. Maybe the Russians thought it would detract to have both of them there I don't know. Maybe Kaczynsky would grandstand, I don't know.

Anyway, the theory goes that the Russians still didn't want him to come so they would want to delay things, make excuses as to why he shouldn't land and shuttle him off to another airport, a long drive away. Kaczynski will have none of it and given his record of flying adventures they decide to just go thru with the landing and then have an accident.

Well, that's the best conspiracy theory I can come up with. Since we have a reasonably open investigation with both Poles and Russians having access to Black Boxes and the like I think there is a good chance to actually one day, not to far from today, find out what happened.

I don't rule out the idea that the Russians were using the Katyn memory as a means of flooding Poland with controversy and splitting Russophobes from more moderate Poles or some other calculations along those lines, but let's not forget the Poles are maneuvering within their own political culture too.

[Sweejak]

Delete double post again. What' with the forum software?

[seemslikeadream]

Poland's Role in WW III?
I'll depart from my usual review of general, albeit economics-related news this morning because there's something I want to zoom-in on with you: I've got good news for you - and bad.

Talked to my friend and predictive linguistics guru Cliff on Tuesday and the way things are lining up it is starting to look like the really really BIG tipping point in the linguistics November 8-14 of this year (remembering our last big tipping point was 9/11 which set off the current round of warring and the rise of the national security state) is shaping more toward WW III than anything else. Oh - and my own research into the Shape of Things to Come report's references to an old-time socialist may be rhyming with Jean Jaurès, for reasons that should become apparent in a moment. But, instead of starting in the middle of the story, let's click back to the here & now and read up the latest dispatch from our correspondent in Poland:
"Hello George

You might wonder, how many things can happen in 24 hours,and I'll answer you-more than you can imagine, especially if we're talking about these hours in a beheaded country.

Just few notes today:

Flight procedures are strong and shall be taken seriously when it's about Air Force One, d'oh?

Only people whose names are on the checklist shall be allowed to enter the plane...than how come there are two bodies in a wreck which are identified but were not on the list and nobody knows who are these people?

(Link to Polish source)

The peaceful mourning is over from the moment when it was announced that bodies of our first pair will be buried in a national sanctuary in Wawel, Cracow-what is more intriguing in the same crypt where Pilsudzki lies-and I think I mentioned this guy somewhere earlier.

Anyway, some people are strongly opposed to this idea and are organising protests-calling for a revolt if they won't succeed:

(Another source translation page)

Some say they're not patriots:

(And another source cite)

[Pay attention here! Things get even weirder about here - G]

Do you hear the gunshots on this amateur movie recorded right after the crash?

(Link to what may be Poland's Grassy Knoll footage)

The Bible Code asked about the crash is quite...well...

(Polish speculation about events as Bible Code attack)

Yeah, everything is just fine here.
Well, let's see here, what large roughly 100-year-ago events would come close to the potential of this one to set off a world war?

Are we the only ones that remember World War I? So let's see how well history rhymes in the coming months rhyme with the events leading into WW I.

If the Polish presidential plane crash (which took out their central bank president, who was no friend of the West's "easy money and we'll own you' policies from what I've read) is analogous to the tragedy of the April 10 crash.

Our first temporal marker to be looking for might be a rhyme on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Jaurès the assassination of a leading socialist Jean Jaurès[which occurred on July 31 1914 just 25 days after the Archduke Ferdinand was killed, which is you dozed off in that class was June 28, 1914.

While the linguistics point to a Frenchman and a Wild Colleen in the coming period, I'm not so sure it couldn't turn out to be something like a rhyme on the French socialist leader getting popped which was 25-days after the Archduke was capped.

And then there's the problem of historical rhymes: They are never exact. So as I was reading up on how Jean Jaurès was a left/socialist and therefore a labor leader and also anti-militarist, a rhyme today could go completely the opposite -- to a pro-militarist, hardliner, of the right, who's a corporatist too...25-days after Poland's plane crash. Place your bets?

I've circled the May 5/6 timeframe for that and know what the scary part of that is? That's when (coincidentally I sure hope!) our linguistic "building tension values" go nearly vertical.



Most people won't remember enough history to see how closely aligned Polish interests are with Austrian interests, and although smaller in size today, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (1569-1795) was a hugely power part of central Europe.

And how does all this fit in with modern-day events? Aha! For some reason, the ancient Polish empire included lands from which legends of things like vampires and such came from. The reason these figure into our tale is that vampires were large, powerful, came out only at night and had an appetite for human blood.

Now, if you read your L. Austine Waddell books about the Aryan types (and related chalky skin, undergrounds, sunlight averse superhumans who are reputed to be going off planet about how) we could take a real turn out into the vast fields of woo woo and get totally lost. So, instead, we will click back to looking at what could come next, if the Polish plane crash sets off a larger sequence of events to come...
---
So the next date after the Archduke's death of major consequence on the road to Total War, comes on August 1, 1914 - 34 days after the murder and close enough to 33 to be worth noticing on the way by. This is the date that Germany declares war on Russia.

What might a modern analog be? Oh, maybe some declaration of war between countries (your guess is as good as mine since we're so far off into the speculative weeds at this point) would be a day or two either side of May 13, 2010.
---
Penciling out a little more of this potential rhyme we can look at the date of the Polish plane crash (4/10/2010) and look at the period from 11/8/2010 to 11/14/2010 which is the date of the major release language and tipping point in the predictive linguistics for this fall.

The low end of the date range would be 212 days from the plane crash date while the high end would be 218 days.

So we go back to the assassination of the Archduke and the declaration of war by Germany. We know that we've got this huge - bigger than anything we have seen before in modelspace in the predictive linguistics coming up November 8-14 of this year, so where do we go in rhyme-seeking mode? The calculations, please?

Archduke death + 212 days 1/26/1915
Archduke death + 218 days 2/1/1915

German War declar. +212 3/1/1915
German War declar. +218 3/7/1915

Lots of dates and ways to arrange things, but the only really safe generalization is that in this period is when the German U-Boat campaign against shipping was being escalated in intensity.

About now, you're possibly asking yourself, what would the modern analog be in terms of public fears? If the U-Boats were the weapon of public fear then, what is our modern analog? My guess? ICBM's

[Sweejak]

Pretty weird, high weird.
In the film I do hear pops, maybe gunshots. I think at worst it may be ammo cooking off. What else would it be, assassins lurking at just the right place to knock off survivors. No flag for me.

There is something mystical to it, but I believe perhaps there are rational reasons to it in which the investigation has to find..."
-- Medvedev

http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-04-14/medve ... ad-rt.html

Re History, does anyone recall that Poland colluded with Nazi Germany about how to divide Russia? "Just sayin'" because I don't make much of it but I do want to point out that none of this is simple, even without the high weirdness.

[Sweejak]

So now I am thinking, T- that’s it, you’re watching far too much RT. You need to stop loading up on delicious propaganda carbs and consume your media more responsibly. “Healthfully” as they like to say. So I flipped off RT and the local news (which I assumed had some unwritten mourning protocol before launching into the political aspects of the tragedy, out of respect for the dead. Who were Polish. A very important ally of America. A very important demographic in our town.) Like any good blogger I, though paralyzed with the immensity of the tragedy and hating myself for what I was about to do, proceeded to google for the red meat. Which I guess makes me even more heartless than Vladimir fucking Vladimirovich.

And here’s what I found:

http://poemless.wordpress.com/2010/04/1 ... rom-katyn/

[tazmic]

http://theflucase.com/ has gone, earlier thread links broken. Odd timing.

[Sweejak]

Just a couple of oddities, the pattern of wreckage seems to have little relation to the runway. But one report on Pravda cited "someone close to the investigation" who said the pilots turned on the afterburners to gain altitude when the landing seemed like a bad idea and simultaneously made a turn, this action brought the wings in contact with the trees and then it was all over. Does that plane even have afterburners? No time to check. It's almost all scuttlebutt right now anyway.

See the image here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sh-MP.html