The Emergence of Conspirituality

[Sounder]

Alas, Sounder, I fear there are many arrows still to be drawn.

You are right dodger, there is plenty more to be thrown at us.

Damn, this discrimination thing is difficult.

But on the upside, we have a lot of material to practice on.

[American Dream]

Well, I read carefully what you said and have a few things to say which I hope are taken with goodwill, because that is my intention. My perception of R.I. is that there are very few physical activists of the type that are out in the street, traditional union stuff, social justice campaigns - and my understanding is that that is the sea in which you swim. I remember years ago you asking about activism here and there was a pause on the board and... tumbleweeds blew in from the desert... and I realised that your perspective was probably informed by that - in a way that many of us here were not.

I looked over our conversations going back years and we have been reenacting variations on the same conversation - an insolvable conversational 'knot'.

Your values are truth and consequences (to self and others and organisations)
"Is this thing Icke says true? If it is NOT true, why defend Icke? Why do you not see the negative consequences of defending someone you know is speaking untruths?!! Would you defend Nazis by saying I dont believe what they say?"

When you say
How can you believe this Icke nonsense about shape shifting reptiles?!
My first thought is
Firstly, why are you mocking Southern African shamanic tradition?
Secondly, I dont believe it or disbelieve it. I regard it as an interesting idea - I think many shamanic traditions are a mix of literal and metaphorical.
Third I wonder where the idea leads to... and I think of reptilian brain people and the whole area of Ponerology / leadership by psychopaths.


My values are - does it lead to changes in perception, personal growth and challenging orthodoxy-
"Does this provoke my thinking and lead me to do worthwhile investigation and ultimately to be a more effective, kind and loving person day to day, empower people by my actions?"

Your TIDS thread exactly fits my values - it led me to changes in perception, seeing others in patterns I had been in and actually set me off down the Adam Curtis path, whose work changed my perceptions, reframed personal growth and above all challenged orthodoxy.

You said you are most interested in ideas for social change - for me that means you are most interested in what will produce good ideas and what will help their implementation - is that accurate?

If it is, well that is one of my abiding passions too - maybe we can focus on what empowers each other...

I hope this landed with the goodwill and peace with which it was sent.

Yes- I do have one foot in the world of activism- the working for concrete changes in our social relations. I hope to get radical ("to the roots") and not simply work on adjusting the machine a bit with that...

Part of me is also here with RI but some of the stuff I see shocks me because I really and truly believe we can do much, much better.

As to shape-shifting reptiles, I do not believe this to be literally true but my main point is that these are unproven allegations, not that such a thing is beyond consideration.

And yes, I understand the rationale for personal exploration and growth but feel that it is most meaningful when connected to a organized, collective effort for material changes in the system(s) we sustain...

And yes, with the TIDS thread and in general, I have an abiding hope that peoples' innate intelligence and moral aspirations will lead them to good conclusions that are complementary to my own. Often, I am very, very disappointed in alternative cultures in this regard but I never give up hope that we can do better.

Thanks for the goodwill expressed- surely felt, and reciprocated.