What's With Homophobia In Conspiracy Culture?

[Luther Blissett]

At the risk of sounding a bit philosophical - but WHY do we enage in this?
Why are people like you and me spending time doing this?
Is it a... hobby?
Is it to find a clearer picture of the world? For what purpose?
Is it to be just a researcher, an information collector and navigator? If so, WHY? So What?
What results has it produced in your life - in your self-expression? in your abundance? in your connections with people and the Earth? in your happiness? in all other areas of your life?

I mean, when she said before the break that the Feds play into the hands of the white supremacists and radical Islamists, I thought, good, at least she's acknowledging that. But in the second piece she kept repeating that she was "mystified" as to why they wouldn't be more transparent regarding clearing up their having killed the guy they were questioning.

There you have it. Rachel Maddow is mystified at law enforcement's less than forthcoming nature. Because, you know, that just doesn't make sense.

Overall, the effect Maddow has is to re-emphasize that some modes of belief are absurd. But she doesn't differentiate. She just makes some topics off limits in polite, intelligent discussion. A net negative, in my opinion.

You have summed up my feelings about Maddow perfectly. Well, I would probably go a little further to speculate about why, but searching her name on this forum would probably provide the necessary biographical information to reach the same conclusion.

[Wombaticus Rex]

At the risk of sounding a bit philosophical - but WHY do we enage in this?

Was talking to a LEO buddy about this less than an hour ago at yon cafe where I tend to hold court for breakfast. He was trying to startle me with the radical notion that I was fascinated by tracing covert power structures because I have so little power in my own life. I chuckled and nodded: that was an insight I accepted when my high school girlfriend made that point to me in 1998.

There are no millionaires here.

Still, it's about style. My father doesn't accept being born a serf, either, but he copes by watching Fox News and fantasizing about lining liberals against a wall and shooting them all for ruining his country. Hopefully I can avoid the same fate when I reach his age.

[Wombaticus Rex]

As to why I'm here in particular, that comes down to about 20 people who consistently contribute valuable information.

I don't expect any solutions to emerge from RI and have no problems with the stark possibility of another decade of connecting dots and tracing scars while the world burns.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

...


But the folk who think they have their hands on the levers of power aren't really the one(s) who have their hands on the true levers of power.

They are subject to the higher laws, whether they believe it or not.

The day of the Controllers though, has already ended.

They just don't know it yet.

That reminded me of something I wrote three years ago titled The Primal Forces of Nature vs. The Real Primal Forces of Nature. All about how the hubris of powerful interests will come back to bite them in the ass, more on a physical basis than a spiritual one, though I do believe there will be a spiritual reckoning, not in a Book of Revelations way, but in some way beyond our comprehension.

[Hammer of Los]

...

Youse guys are smart and funny.

I worry bout 'da Wombat dough.

What is it you seek to understand?

Do you seek to understand the mind of God?

That might not be such a wise course of action.

On the other hand.

It's kind of a you dont want to go there thing combined with kind of a its a dirty job but someone's gotta do it thing.

Well, it is fer me.

Solutions;

Learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Follow simple lifestyle and urge others to do the same.

Eat simple raw unprocessed foods.

Avoid chemicals, additives, flouride and so on.

Attend to your physical and mental health each day.

Make your life a constant learning experience.

Seek to harm none.

Ask enough for love but not for greed.

Disinvest and divorce yourself from vested interests and corrupt corporations.

Buy from small local businesses.

Buy organic locally grown produce.

Keep your energy needs to a minimum.

Always recycle.

Give up your petrol driven vehicles.

Fly less often or not at all.

Create and help manage and support local self sustaining communities.

Encourage democratic action at the local level.

Begin the true revolution from within.

Tidy up after yourself.

Tidy up a little after others too!

And so on.

Spread the word.

Plus dat Book of Revelations stuff?

No comment.

Ha ha ha.

...

[Wombaticus Rex]

...

Youse guys are smart and funny.

I worry bout 'da Wombat dough.

...

Not interested in the psychology of fictional characters, so...perhaps you have nothing to worry about?

[stillrobertpaulsen]

...

Youse guys are smart and funny.
...

Hey 8bit, I know this is somewhat off-topic, but in light of your earlier comment regarding the logical dissonance over the perception of 9/11 Truthers that are also jihadists, I thought this might be appreciated.

Truther Jihadist Wishes Al-Qaeda Had Committed 9/11 Attacks
News in Brief • terrorism • World • News • ISSUE 49•32 • Aug 8, 2013



DHAMAR, YEMEN—Calling the attacks on the World Trade Center “a missed opportunity for al-Qaeda,” 9/11 truther and militant jihadist Fahad al-Mouqrin reportedly expressed his deep disappointment Thursday that the September 11 attacks were in fact not carried out by the terror organization. “It would have been perfect if al-Qaeda did deliver such a devastating blow to the American infidels, but unfortunately, it was all planned and executed by the Bush administration to justify the Iraq War,” said the militant Islamic fundamentalist and conspiracy theorist, noting that it “really kills [him]” to think of the widespread carnage and chaos at Ground Zero, knowing deep down that it was not truly the work of his fellow mujahideen. “I wish we had destroyed those two buildings in the name of Allah, instead of the controlled demolitions at the base of the World Trade Center that actually caused both towers to collapse. But the whole thing was an inside job by the U.S. government and then covered up by the mainstream American media. Unfortunately.” Al-Mouqrin added that he is at least relieved al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is still alive and currently planning imminent attacks on several major U.S. cities.

[8bitagent]

I was crying pretty hard last night watching this documentary


These shit bag homophobic people who claim to be "fighting the towers that be" have NO FUCKING CLUE about LGBT people, individuals or the gay community.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there can be no allowance, no grey period. Attacks on gays are no different than attacks on Blacks, Arabs, etc.
You cannot call yourself anti war, anti fascism, yet somehow think gay people are lesser than.

Hitler himself was a conspiracy theorist monger who tried to wipe out gays, so that shows you what company gay bashers are in league with, Godwin be damned.
Sorry, it's just the homophobic nature of a lot of conspiracy retards does not get brought up enough. I can deal with the gun nut bullshit, the belief that abortion=eugenics
(even tho Ive become convinced that abortion no longer represents a eugenic elite plan as it did in the beginning) but I cant handle anti gay remarks NOR bashing Mexican people.

Some of the most wonderful people Ive met and been around have been "undocumented" Mexicans, as well as LGBT people and it makes me piping mad when so called "Anti NWO"
people go on screeds against these people. How the FUCK is it any different than bashing on Muslims, Middle Easterners or Blacks?

[American Dream]

I cant handle anti gay remarks NOR bashing Mexican people.

Some of the most wonderful people Ive met and been around have been "undocumented" Mexicans, as well as LGBT people and it makes me piping mad when so called "Anti NWO"
people go on screeds against these people. How the FUCK is it any different than bashing on Muslims, Middle Easterners or Blacks?

http://juliosalgado83.tumblr.com/page/6

[8bitagent]

Yeah it's hard for me to even feel the muster to defend "CT" to people. When the "Hoaxer" angle to every tragedy came out, I was already feeling long detatched.
I still have my old radio streams of spitfire, 4aCloserLook, and *some* C2C. I got into "conspiracy" online culture more from the post 2000 WTO/IMF protest
crowd than the "Masons NWO End the Fed" crowd. The conspiracy crowd has just gotten so insular, nasty and truly batshit insane that it makes one's head spin.

I feel very similar - your comment about 4acloserlook - Michael Corbin what a loss that was; I wonder though if part of the nastyness you see is a more general cultural vibe in the air at the moment rather than purely paraculture related - for example innumerable Youtube comment sections about the most innocuous subject videos
Vid "Here's my cat Tiddles playing" will degenerate into skeptic atheist vs fundie Xtian bunfights
'Cats prove God doesnt exist'
'You are evil and will burn in Hell'
...

Rinse Wash Repeat

Like with the recent Lee Rigby case, people just saying "FAKE! HOAX!" and inserting a reason as justification for that like "There was an old woman shopping who walked past the 'killer' on the video. If I was there I would have run for the hills, so it's a HOAX".
This to me is just another side of the 'debunking' mentality, where any idea or concept is used as machine gun target practice in the name of 'Truth'(tm) and the behaviour is excused on the grounds that it is being 'rigorous' or doing critical thinking'. Looking at the comments section of prisonplanet for one side or look at huffington post for another..

Two sides of the same coin.

It was years since I last watched a 9/11 related video - by chance saw one called "9/11 finally solved, names named etc " On the one hand, I thought - "Wow, much more information discovered especially about the deep state aspects - YAY!" then I realised that even if Indira Singh herself came out of hiding with an annotated documented video guide to who did what when - what would happen? what *could* happen?

At the risk of sounding a bit philosophical - but WHY do we enage in this?
Why are people like you and me spending time doing this?
Is it a... hobby?
Is it to find a clearer picture of the world? For what purpose?
Is it to be just a researcher, an information collector and navigator? If so, WHY? So What?
What results has it produced in your life - in your self-expression? in your abundance? in your connections with people and the Earth? in your happiness? in all other areas of your life?

It's a pretty awkward, difficult series of questions to think about (at least I have found them that way for myself) The amount of outcomes-related thinking done in paraculture seems very very small... hmm..perhaps that is one of the reasons Donald Rumsfeld appears before Jon Stewart rather than the International Criminal Court.

Maybe you could do a Youtube documentary on R.I. Get Kickstarter funding Call it
"Why We Click"

I kind of came to the conclusion, in my mind, that a lot of the popular 9/11 truth claims were...well erroneous at best. I think only Core Of Corruption, Press For Truth and yes, Fox News 2011 "Secrets of 9/11" come closest
to matching research I've independently done.

As to why we follow conspiracies? Well, to be honest it may not be that different than a college geek in the 1950's and 60's reading UFO underground publications or people in the 70's reading Vallee and PK Dick.
Yes, it is part hobby...or more grey area. I've greatly distanced and pulled myself from "research" in the last few years. I mean, I can see why Jeff stopped his blogs. It's too disturbing.
What is the point anyways? I rather focus on self centered happiness like working on art, going out with friends and trying to better my health in mind. However RI is probably my only
"conspiracy" outlet, because truth be told since I was little I've always had this nagging quench for figuring things out and mystery.

However, it is also tied to my strong sense of political/social justice activism. I mean I don't know...why could I feel I could hold my head up high when I was loudly marching in gay rights, anti war, free palestine marches BUT NOT when I was at 9/11 Truth rallies? Is it because deep down I never really believed 9/11 inside job theories? To this day I am convinced in my heart that al Qaeda was being secretly controlled and guided/used in 9/11 and not literally behind the idea...however I also know I cant prove that to people. Yelling "Saudi Arabia had a hand in 9/11" would just confuse people. (And I think Saudi is only one factor) But I can be self assured in and proud in yelling "US Out of Afghanistan and Iraq", "Stop Drones", "Manning IS A Hero". Its not that I dont believe in conspiracies...Ive "Wasted" a large part of over a decade arguing such things. Its just I know the margins to which to voice in a public setting.

YES...online culture BECAUSE or partly because of the 2008 election cycle now has gotten VERY nasty. This left(atheist) vs right(christian, anti democrat, pro war) mindset. And its erupted into pure hate.
Look at any comments to news articles and its the worst of humanity. Sadly theres very few "smart" truthers/parathinkers online, and I gladly count RI as one of the few.

[8bitagent]

I still have my old radio streams of spitfire, 4aCloserLook, and *some* C2C. I got into "conspiracy" online culture more from the post 2000 WTO/IMF protest
crowd than the "Masons NWO End the Fed" crowd. The conspiracy crowd has just gotten so insular, nasty and truly batshit insane that it makes one's head spin.

...Dave Emory's pretty nasty.....and did you ever heaer Corbin's interview with William Blum...

If there is spurious or questionable views held by aforementioned or more moderate conspiracy talk show/writers, I guess then nothing is surprising.

[8bitagent]

...

Youse guys are smart and funny.
...

Hey 8bit, I know this is somewhat off-topic, but in light of your earlier comment regarding the logical dissonance over the perception of 9/11 Truthers that are also jihadists, I thought this might be appreciated.

Truther Jihadist Wishes Al-Qaeda Had Committed 9/11 Attacks
News in Brief • terrorism • World • News • ISSUE 49•32 • Aug 8, 2013



DHAMAR, YEMEN—Calling the attacks on the World Trade Center “a missed opportunity for al-Qaeda,” 9/11 truther and militant jihadist Fahad al-Mouqrin reportedly expressed his deep disappointment Thursday that the September 11 attacks were in fact not carried out by the terror organization. “It would have been perfect if al-Qaeda did deliver such a devastating blow to the American infidels, but unfortunately, it was all planned and executed by the Bush administration to justify the Iraq War,” said the militant Islamic fundamentalist and conspiracy theorist, noting that it “really kills [him]” to think of the widespread carnage and chaos at Ground Zero, knowing deep down that it was not truly the work of his fellow mujahideen. “I wish we had destroyed those two buildings in the name of Allah, instead of the controlled demolitions at the base of the World Trade Center that actually caused both towers to collapse. But the whole thing was an inside job by the U.S. government and then covered up by the mainstream American media. Unfortunately.” Al-Mouqrin added that he is at least relieved al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is still alive and currently planning imminent attacks on several major U.S. cities.

The Onion's ONN youtube show has for years made a number of al Qaeda/truther parody vids. One has a CNN like show where an al Qaeda cleric tries to debate with a Truther.

Whats funny is Ayman al Zawahiri made this big deal online a few years ago about how al Qaeda hates 9/11 Truther conspiracies, and that they are all just hogwash. He said that claiming US or Israel did 9/11
is blasphemy to the "martyrs of the holy tuesday operation" and that it must be "Iranian propaganda". Which is funny, because Iran sure as heck didnt protest all the times bin Laden snuck into Iranian territory from Baluchistan province for falcon hunting. Its all smoke and mirrors.

I do believe al Qaeda truly does believe they think they did 9/11 alone:)

[KeenInsight]

I wasn't aware that homophobia is apart of 'conspiracy' culture. People unfortunately come to the table with their own set of beliefs, which only divides people more instead of unifying.

And furthermore, are those that are inclined simply to question things considered to be part of a 'culture' as if it is has some sort of negative meaning. I despite that is a "thing" especially when "conspiracy theory" is like a joke "meme" when there are actually real conspiracies.

...

Youse guys are smart and funny.
...

The Onion's ONN youtube show has for years made a number of al Qaeda/truther parody vids. One has a CNN like show where an al Qaeda cleric tries to debate with a Truther.

Whats funny is Ayman al Zawahiri made this big deal online a few years ago about how al Qaeda hates 9/11 Truther conspiracies, and that they are all just hogwash. He said that claiming US or Israel did 9/11
is blasphemy to the "martyrs of the holy tuesday operation" and that it must be "Iranian propaganda". Which is funny, because Iran sure as heck didnt protest all the times bin Laden snuck into Iranian territory from Baluchistan province for falcon hunting. Its all smoke and mirrors.

I do believe al Qaeda truly does believe they think they did 9/11 alone:)

Unless you mean "al-Qaeda" as in possibly some of the uneducated foot soldiers trained into a proxy force, then probably. Many Afghanistan militants still believe they are fighting against Soviets. At the same time, radicalization of their beliefs is linked back through U.S. funding programs and other such things, and thus was encouraged as a "means to an end" (purposely ensuring sectarian violence to destabilize a region).

Another thing, if Osama bin Laden was considered truly the organizational lead, then it goes contrary to his own words before he probably died in late 2001 or 2002 from kidney failure. He simply stated he had nothing to do with 9/11 and people were using his name for their own agenda and purposes. Words straight from the supposed "boogey" man, who was a CIA asset. And all the years since the government feeds its useful propaganda for the accused "boogey" man to keep the myth alive. The FBI never even listed bin Laden as responsible for 9/11, because they literally had 0 proof that al-Qaeda had anything to do with 9/11, which was also stated by some whistleblowers.

The full quote is: "After the recent attacks, which the U.S. has witnessed, the U.S. government ventured to point fingers at me, accuse me of involvement. The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for behind every occasion its enemies attack it. I would like the assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons. As for me, I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leader's rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations." - Osama bin Laden

The horrible irony in all of this is that the government uses its double standard to declare people like Bradley Manning to be "treasonous" when in fact it is our leaders that commit treason for EVERY occasion when wars of aggression are planned. Back in the day I can't imagine what it was like for people during the Vietnam war when they spoke out telling people the government was lying, etc. and then years later it is known to be 100% fact that the war started based on a LIE. And for each future war, the lie simply gets bigger and bolder.

[JackRiddler]

I wasn't aware that homophobia is apart of 'conspiracy' culture. People unfortunately come to the table with their own set of beliefs, which only divides people more instead of unifying.

And furthermore, are those that are inclined simply to question things considered to be part of a 'culture' as if it is has some sort of negative meaning. I despite that is a "thing" especially when "conspiracy theory" is like a joke "meme" when there are actually real conspiracies.

Well distinctions need to be made and the thread's question fails to make them. First of all, what's with homophobia, period. Because it's not found with everyone, but it's still everywhere, including within most any group we might care to define.

Second, insofar as there is a "conspiracy culture" (a group who tend to label themselves CTs and listen to a particular set of sources who have set themselves up as niche marketers, all of which I find unfortunate for the same reasons you imply), there is also an element within it that weaves homophobic tropes into the narrative. As in, Hollywood or the Jews or whoever are promoting a homosexual agenda for the purpose of weakening America, destroying the traditional family, further atomizing the culture, etc. etc. As you will actually hear from certain right-wing or Christianist precincts.

EDIT: I guess in some unfortunate way we're on the perennial subject of why do Alex Jones et al. talk so much wrong and hateful trash and why does anyone still listen to it?

[KeenInsight]

I wasn't aware that homophobia is apart of 'conspiracy' culture. People unfortunately come to the table with their own set of beliefs, which only divides people more instead of unifying.

And furthermore, are those that are inclined simply to question things considered to be part of a 'culture' as if it is has some sort of negative meaning. I despite that is a "thing" especially when "conspiracy theory" is like a joke "meme" when there are actually real conspiracies.

Well distinctions need to be made and the thread's question fails to make them. First of all, what's with homophobia, period. Because it's not found with everyone, but it's still everywhere, including within most any group we might care to define.

Second, insofar as there is a "conspiracy culture" (a group who tend to label themselves CTs and listen to a particular set of sources who have set themselves up as niche marketers, all of which I find unfortunate for the same reasons you imply), there is also an element within it that weaves homophobic tropes into the narrative. As in, Hollywood or the Jews or whoever are promoting a homosexual agenda for the purpose of weakening America, destroying the traditional family, further atomizing the culture, etc. etc. As you will actually hear from certain right-wing or Christianist precincts.

EDIT: I guess in some unfortunate way we're on the perennial subject of why do Alex Jones et al. talk so much wrong and hateful trash and why does anyone still listen to it?

I have no idea, but it is my assumption that homophobia is a thing due to learned cultural and/or religious beliefs. That's as much as it can be boiled down to and is completely dependent on someone's upbringing, which starts with the family pushing a specific belief on a child, whereby when the child is of age where their brain can start to think for themselves, they can either choose to question that ordained belief or embrace it. And thus it is a "meme" that is simply learned through cultural upbringing. I hate to blame religion, but people use religion in shameful ways that go against their original 'teachings' when religion itself is written by humans with their own set of beliefs.

Taking modern examples like the The Big 3, Christianity, Judaism, and Muslim, which are all basically cut from the same story, there are groups of each of those major religions that are most definitely not radical and are much less hateful.