Conspiracy Against the Human Race by Thomas Ligotti

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Re: Conspiracy Against the Human Race by Thomas Ligotti

Postby elfismiles » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:58 am

Public humiliation and vitriol aside ... I hear ya FourthBase.

But as usual, I don't think the "dialog" must descend into side choosing. There is room enough for both visions of the world ...

And while the basic gist of True Detectives / King in Yellow ... is the mind-contagion Werther Blues inducing insanity and depression that perhaps fuels the Copycat effect and the worst human behaviors, I think the discussion of how one sees the world - positively or pessimistically - is valuable.

Having not read deeply of Ligotti nor seen all of True Detectives yet (thanks for the spoiler alerts y'all) I can only relate these kinds of discussions to my earliest angst of pondering the UFO phenomenon and the possibility of human's being the only like-consciousness in the Universe. The potential tragedy of us being alone in all that void (aside from the bounty and beauty of life with us here on spaceship earth) felt like (still sometimes feels like) cruel and unusual punishment.

Dukkha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha

Dukkha (Pāli; Sanskrit: duḥkha; Tibetan sdug bsngal) is a Buddhist term commonly translated as "suffering", "anxiety", "stress", or "unsatisfactoriness".[a] The principle of dukkha is one of the most important concepts in the Buddhist tradition. The Buddha is reputed to have said: "I have taught one thing and one thing only, dukkha and the cessation of dukkha." The classic formulation of these teachings on dukkha is the doctrine of the Four Noble Truths, in which the Truth of Dukkha (Pali: dukkha saccã; Sanskrit: duḥkha-satya) is identified as the first of the four truths.

Dukkha is commonly explained according to three different categories:

The obvious physical and mental suffering associated with birth, growing old, illness and dying.
The anxiety or stress of trying to hold onto things that are constantly changing.
A basic unsatisfactoriness pervading all forms of existence, because all forms of life are changing, impermanent and without any inner core or substance.

The Buddhist tradition emphasizes the importance of developing insight into the nature of dukkha, the conditions that cause it, and how it can be overcome. This process is formulated in the teachings on the Four Noble Truths.



Common Buddhist Misunderstandings - BuddhaNet
www.buddhanet.net/cbp1_f6.htm

1. Misunderstanding that arises from the teachings.

The theory of the Buddha’s teaching is very profound. Some people do not understand its meanings and may only know it superficially. After listening to a few phrases, they may start to explain to the others in their own way. As a result, some explanations people tell, may not be accurate teachings of the Buddha. The most common misunderstandings are about the teachings: "life is suffering", "out-worldly" and "emptiness". So now lets discuss these terminologies separately:

a) Life is suffering

The Buddha told us that "Life is Suffering". One who does not understand the Truth of this may think that life is meaningless and become negative and pessimistic. Actually, this theory is commonly misunderstood. People in society and even some Buddhists are trapped in this wrong and gloomy view.

When we encounter phenomena, and have a feeling of dislike, worry or pain, we say that there is "suffering". This should not be generalised to "all life is suffering", because there is also a lot of happiness in life! Noises are disturbing but nice melodies bring happiness. When one is sick, poor, separated from loved ones, one has suffering. But when one is healthy, wealthy, together with one’s family, one is very happy. Suffering and happiness exist in all phenomena. Actually where there is happiness, there will be suffering. They are in contrast with each other. If’ we only say that life is suffering when things do not go according to our wish we are rather foolish.

The Buddha says, "Life is suffering". What does "suffering" mean? The sutras say: "Impermanence therefore suffering". Everything is impermanent and changeable. The Buddha says that life is suffering because it is impermanent and ever-changing. For example, a healthy body cannot last forever. It will gradually become weak, old. sick and die. One who is wealthy cannot maintain one’s wealth forever. Sometimes one may become poor. Power and status do not last as well, one will lose them finally. From this condition of changing and instability, although there is happiness and joy, they are not ever lasting and ultimate. When changes come, suffering arises.

Thus, the Buddha says life is suffering. Suffering means dissatisfaction, impermanence and imperfection. If a practising Buddhist does not understand the real meaning of "suffering" and think that life is not perfect and ultimate, they become negative and pessimistic in their view of life. Those who really understand the teaching of the Buddha will have a totally different view. We should know that the theory of "Life is suffering" taught by the Buddha is to remind us that life is not ultimate and lasting, and hence we should strive towards Buddhahood — a permanent and perfect life.

This is similar to one who is sick. One must know that one is sick before wanting to seek the doctor’s treatment. Only then can the sickness be cured. Why is life not ultimate and permanent and full of suffering? There must be a cause for the suffering. Once one knows the cause of suffering, one will try one’s best to be rid of the causes, and hence end the suffering and attain ultimate peacefulness and happiness.

A practising Buddhist should practice according to the Buddha’s instruction, and change this imperfect and non-ultimate life to a ultimate and perfect one. Then would come a state of permanent joy, personality, and purity.

Permanent means ever-lasting, joy means peacefulness and happiness, personality means freedom and non-attachment, purity means cleanliness. This highest aim of Buddhism is not only to break through the suffering of life but to transform this suffering life into a life that has permanent peacefulness, joy, freedom and purity. The Buddha told us the cause of suffering and instructed us to strive towards the goal. The stage of permanent, joy, personality and purity is an ultimate ideal phenomena. It is full of brightness and hope. It is a stage that is attainable by all of us. How can we say that Buddhism is negative and pessimistic?

Although not all practising Buddhists are able to attain this highest point of practice, there is still boundless benefit in knowing this theory. Most people know that they have to strive to do good when they are poor, but once they become rich, they forget about everything, and only think about their own enjoyment and hence walk towards the wrong path foolishly.

A practising Buddhist should remember to strive not only when one is poor and in difficulties, but should also be mindful when one is enjoying, because happiness is not permanent. If one does not strive towards the good, they will degenerate and fall very quickly. The teaching of "Life is suffering" reminds us not to look forward for enjoyment only and go the wrong way. This is the important implication in the teaching of "Life is suffering", taught by the Buddha.
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Re: Conspiracy Against the Human Race by Thomas Ligotti

Postby brekin » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:23 pm

This doesn't make sense.
a) Life is suffering
The Buddha told us that "Life is Suffering". One who does not understand the Truth of this may think that life is meaningless and become negative and pessimistic. Actually, this theory is commonly misunderstood. People in society and even some Buddhists are trapped in this wrong and gloomy view.
When we encounter phenomena, and have a feeling of dislike, worry or pain, we say that there is "suffering". This should not be generalised to "all life is suffering", because there is also a lot of happiness in life!


Didn't the Buddha just say "Life is Suffering"? That seems pretty definitive. I don't think that means "Life is suffering, well not all life, because there is a lot of happiness in life!"

Noises are disturbing but nice melodies bring happiness. When one is sick, poor, separated from loved ones, one has suffering. But when one is healthy, wealthy, together with one’s family, one is very happy. Suffering and happiness exist in all phenomena. Actually where there is happiness, there will be suffering. They are in contrast with each other. If’ we only say that life is suffering when things do not go according to our wish we are rather foolish.


I can see the seeds of suffering existing in our happiness, possibly, but they can't be happening at the same time. Even people who are bipolar seem to have pretty definitive binary experiences of suffering and happiness. Even a situation or person that triggers conflicting, contrasting, emotions still are experienced in alternating waves. Stretching that out, some people you can say have had lives of overall happiness or overall suffering. Some of that sure can be of their own choosing. But someone with a chronic pain ailment for most of their life could probably say that life is suffering, as well as someone whose life did not go according to their wishes overall.

The Buddha says, "Life is suffering". What does "suffering" mean?


According to Merriam Webster suffering means:
1: the state or experience of one that suffers
2: pain


The sutras say: "Impermanence therefore suffering". Everything is impermanent and changeable. The Buddha says that life is suffering because it is impermanent and ever-changing. For example, a healthy body cannot last forever. It will gradually become weak, old. sick and die. One who is wealthy cannot maintain one’s wealth forever. Sometimes one may become poor. Power and status do not last as well, one will lose them finally. From this condition of changing and instability, although there is happiness and joy, they are not ever lasting and ultimate. When changes come, suffering arises.


One could also say we suffer because things don't change. We grow old and die and are ever changing. But the fact that we cannot escape that fact is unchanging. Most people live "lives of quiet desperation" because they feel stuck in a permanent rut and things in the world and for them never change.

Thus, the Buddha says life is suffering. Suffering means dissatisfaction, impermanence and imperfection.


But doesn't suffering meaning pain cut more to the quick? There are those who are dissatisfied and there are those in pain. The first are frustrated, the second are suffering.

If a practising Buddhist does not understand the real meaning of "suffering" and think that life is not perfect and ultimate, they become negative and pessimistic in their view of life. Those who really understand the teaching of the Buddha will have a totally different view. We should know that the theory of "Life is suffering" taught by the Buddha is to remind us that life is not ultimate and lasting, and hence we should strive towards Buddhahood — a permanent and perfect life.


Isn't this faulty and a contradiction though? If life is not ultimate and lasting then it is impermanent and imperfect. How do you strive towards a permanent and perfect life then? Isn't the solution to the problem actually a restatement of the problem? If something is broken completely and unrepairable, then it can't be repaired. If you only have one life, and it is finite and imperfect then it can never be infinite and perfect. If you believe in reincarnation then, that is a different story, but that is the big metaphysical pillar holding up the Buddhism tent that the writer is not acknowledging.

This is similar to one who is sick. One must know that one is sick before wanting to seek the doctor’s treatment. Only then can the sickness be cured. Why is life not ultimate and permanent and full of suffering? There must be a cause for the suffering. Once one knows the cause of suffering, one will try one’s best to be rid of the causes, and hence end the suffering and attain ultimate peacefulness and happiness.


But the sickness can't be cured if life is finite and imperfect. That is why as Kierkegaard said life is the sickness unto death. We all know the causes of suffering, life is imperfect and we don't have complete control over it. That is why people seek greater control over life to try and control how much suffering they will have to face. Getting rid of the causes of suffering is the same as getting rid of the causes of happiness then. That is why the Buddha was really selling detachment from life, from both suffering and happiness. We are wired to try and perfect the imperfect, to strive and at most be model patients in our fight against a sickness unto death. Detaching from that endeavor is cashing in your emotions and vitality

A practising Buddhist should practice according to the Buddha’s instruction, and change this imperfect and non-ultimate life to a ultimate and perfect one. Then would come a state of permanent joy, personality, and purity.


Again, if life is impermanent, imperfect and non-ultimate it can never be ultimate and perfect. A permanent state of joy, personality and purity is then impossible, unless one considers someone frozen in one positive, unchanging mental state forever irregardless of outward circumstances as the goal. Which also, incidentally, seems to be the goal of big pharma.

Permanent means ever-lasting, joy means peacefulness and happiness, personality means freedom and non-attachment, purity means cleanliness. This highest aim of Buddhism is not only to break through the suffering of life but to transform this suffering life into a life that has permanent peacefulness, joy, freedom and purity. The Buddha told us the cause of suffering and instructed us to strive towards the goal. The stage of permanent, joy, personality and purity is an ultimate ideal phenomena. It is full of brightness and hope. It is a stage that is attainable by all of us. How can we say that Buddhism is negative and pessimistic?


Life is either impermanent or permanent. If you suffer because life is impermanent, but your goal is to alleviate your suffering by making life permanent, aren't you increasing your suffering by multiple factors?
Although not all practising Buddhists are able to attain this highest point of practice, there is still boundless benefit in knowing this theory. Most people know that they have to strive to do good when they are poor, but once they become rich, they forget about everything, and only think about their own enjoyment and hence walk towards the wrong path foolishly.


I'd like to meet the practicing Buddhist who has escaped the wheel of life and has made their impermanent life permanent.

A practising Buddhist should remember to strive not only when one is poor and in difficulties, but should also be mindful when one is enjoying, because happiness is not permanent. If one does not strive towards the good, they will degenerate and fall very quickly. The teaching of "Life is suffering" reminds us not to look forward for enjoyment only and go the wrong way. This is the important implication in the teaching of "Life is suffering", taught by the Buddha.


Be young, have fun, drink pepsi, work on your Buddhahood.

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If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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