Cliven Bundy Ranch

[slimmouse]

If Snopes says it aint true, then that is even more grounds for suspicion.

Just my own opinion of snoops .

or is that spooks? or is that snopes?

[Rory]

If Snopes says it aint true, then that is even more grounds for suspicion.

Just my own opinion of snoops .

or is that spooks? or is that snopes?

What do you think of the other website - moralmatters.org?

[slimmouse]

If Snopes says it aint true, then that is even more grounds for suspicion.

Just my own opinion of snoops .

or is that spooks? or is that snopes?

What do you think of the other website - moralmatters.org?

I never saw that link. It all went to snopes. Or is that snoops, or is that spooks?

Snopes. The kind of place where 9/11 conspiracy theorists are confirmed by the great Snopes "truth or lie" fact game

All the "falses" you ever need to convince you that 9/11 was indeed performed as scripted by the Control system.

Same here at the Bunden Ranch.

It probably is all about turtles, or is that tourtoises, rather than agenda 21.

Do Snopes have any true or false about "agenda 21"?

Finally I should add that if I were looking for the kinds of areas where the Billions of taxpayer funds are being invested in the "internet war", then Snopes would be one site I might be looking at.

[brainpanhandler]

What do you think of the other website - moralmatters.org?

Holy crap. What a cesspit of misinformation, paranoia, hatred, bigotry, propaganda and outright falsehoods. God. I need a shower.

[DrEvil]

Agenda 21? That horrible, non-binding and voluntary plan for sustainable development? One part of it even involves protecting turtles!

Protip: The Glenn Beck version of Agenda 21 is bs.

[Sounder]

Still more evidence that if there is a choice between dealing with issues of substance and crap, crap wins the day.

I just visited snopes, nothing about Agenda 21, when asked 'What is Agenda 21 about?' and 'Agenda 21 -United Nations'.

Feces futures might be a good bet.

[Iamwhomiam]

Not that it really matters, but do you happen to have a link to substantiate any of your claims below?

Im taking this perspective from recent information, where you can get Govnt people armed to the teeth invading peoples personal property for coming off the fucking grid, or collecting water, or selling vegetables for fucks sake.

This is happening, and its very very real

Or perhaps you've found some document proving the property Bundy's occupying is actually his "personal property"?

I really want to support this guy, but without sound legal rationale, I cannot.

Edited to add, they are tortoises, not turtles!

Say slimmouse, you going to answer a question asked of you directly?

You have anything at all to prove your remarks quoted above, now for the 2nd time, are anything more than pure fantasy on your part? What you relay, is it very, very real? Have you found some document establishing Bundy's legal right to possess the land he clearly does not own?

[Iamwhomiam]

You know, you're right Iamwhomiam, I am a shithead sometimes, I apologize and will work to improve my behavior.

This thing, to me is about clearing rural folk off the land so that corporate methodologies can be imposed on a still wider percentage of the population.

Yes Agenda 21, the final institutional step to assert as being normative, the right of the corp/state partnership to define the 'proper' expression of Being for every citizen.

Functionally speaking, it cannot work anyway simply because that is not how consciousness works.

As happened with the Soviets, things fall apart when there is all take and very little give.

Fuck i fell off the wagon already, I tried, but the devil insisted.

I feel like pointing out a difference in our outlooks Iamwhomiam. You seem to let ideology do your thinking for you. For my part, I don’t give a rats ass for Harry Reid, Chinese solar power ambitions, Cowboys or this drama. You seem to see one ‘side’ as being bad, so the other must be ‘good’, or at least worth defending. I see both as having potential good but mostly, realized bad because both ‘sides’ are caught up in dichotomous thinking.

The effect of that kind of thinking is to become easy pickings to be manipulated.

Its going to be hard when you find out how thoroughly supportive your underlying ideology is for the purposes of slave makers, but hey maybe that’s some dissonance to be dealt with later.

Others however may generate the fortitude to grapple with this most unpleasant truth.

If you are one of those folk, please get to cracking, the future of humanity depends on YOU.

Well, one thing in your favor, Sounder, is that you're consistent.

There is a vast difference in our thinking, obviously. I have a very simple moral code that's quite liberal. I do believe in right and wrong and in the power and rule of law. But I have not once alluded to, even in the most vague of terms, any support for the governments actions. Not one word!

All I've asked for is some proof to demonstrate Bundy has legal standing to occupy land he does not own, yet none has been produced. He is a thief, admittedly so, having not paid his grazing fees over the past 21 years, which now total millions of dollars.

How long would you wait to bring a legal action against a client who refused to pay the agreed upon price once you finished your work for them?

How long do you think a landlord would tolerate a a non-rent paying squatter before seeking legal redress in a court of law, the only right our constitution truly guarantees?

Another question I asked that went unanswered was:

Has anyone considered Bundy an asset, a provocateur now making news to draw out our more radical patriots?

Now to more directly address the remainder of your remarks, I will quote those I'm addressing.

This thing, to me is about clearing rural folk off the land so that corporate methodologies can be imposed on a still wider percentage of the population.

Um, Sounder, you might want to take a refresher on US history, if you think this is something new. After all, the land Bundy's occupying was once the property of Indians who had it stolen from them and not peacefully taken.

Yeah, can't wait for agenda 21 to arrive. I'll be long dead. Stupid shit keeps you distracted looking for what's to come fearfully, rather than doing anything more than complain about the world on a blog. Some of us put into action our beliefs, and my beliefs I've made know here and should be quite clear to all who have read my words over the past eight years.

I've been on the front lines seeking justice from power for 40 years and I'm a well known activist who doesn't hide behind a pseudonym, like you do. Some of us observe and criticize while others take the hard knocks, fighting for the ignorant observer's human rights.

This is just plain old insulting and ignorant, Sounder:

Its going to be hard when you find out how thoroughly supportive your underlying ideology is for the purposes of slave makers, but hey maybe that’s some dissonance to be dealt with later.

The rest of that commentary is just as unnecessarily rude, ignorant, and unworthy of further comment.

However, there's this, too:

The corp/gov state would like to thank all diligent commenters for their efforts in support of the state.

Well, they would like to thank you, but that would sort of give away the game.

Please produce anyone's comment in support of the government; I've not read one.

Oh, and thanks once again for your rigorous intuition demonstration. That Snopes article puts you into a whole new light.

By the way, how's your work going in taking down agenda 21?

But you know, Sounder, you're right about one thing.

You're still a shithead.

[Sounder]

Ah, you are good for a laugh, Iamwhomiam.

Look, I state my opinions, they run along the lines that AGW, as was the 'war on cancer', the 'green revolution', the 'war on drugs' and most other government do-gooder projects are in truth windfalls for 'leveraged players', with an added 'benefit' of scrambling peoples heads up by divorcing form from function.

That is, there was never any high level care or even desire to 'cure' the great illness at hand.

How can people think there was any real care for a 'cure' when those same folk rain DU ammunition all over the mid-east, or ignore a full nuclear meltdown, or compromise everyone's immune systems with glyphosate and GMO laden food?

But yeah, you are right Iamwhomiam, I am a shithead so pay no mind to what I just wrote.

But I have not once alluded to, even in the most vague of terms, any support for the governments actions. Not one word!

This was the funny part. Now I have no care to get into the particulars of this, but the following language seems fairly supportive of 'government actions'. Maybe that's just me though.

All I've asked for is some proof to demonstrate Bundy has legal standing to occupy land he does not own, yet none has been produced. He is a thief, admittedly so, having not paid his grazing fees over the past 21 years, which now total millions of dollars.

How long would you wait to bring a legal action against a client who refused to pay the agreed upon price once you finished your work for them?

How long do you think a landlord would tolerate a a non-rent paying squatter before seeking legal redress in a court of law, the only right our constitution truly guarantees?

[Iamwhomiam]

Didn't think you'd offer anything of importance to verify your statements or answer any questions put directly to you. Nice to lay allegations on another's doorstep without any substantiation only to "have no care to get into the particulars of this " when asked to.

I did find most amusing the fake Reid's "office's" response. Thank you for your rigor in investigating Reid's involvement in the claims you've made.

But now you really go far afield.

That is, there was never any high level care or even desire to 'cure' the great illness at hand.

No, of course there wasn't. But I wasn't looking for a cure for all of society's ills, nor have I ever been so naive as to think that possible.

Just little things, like creating law that allows senior citizens to own a pet in public housing anywhere in the USA. Or creating law to provide funds for our elderly to make emergency repairs on their home. Nothing of course you'd care about. Creating precedent in case law that future cases will depend upon and be strengthened by.

But this is not about me. I certainly don't need your support or approval.

It's become more about you making false and unsubstantial claims about me, about Reid, about the Chinese solar project without any factual basis for doing so.

So let's hear about all the wonderful things you've done to better society, Sounder. I mean maybe there's at least one thing you can share publicly, like maybe the time you got the kid's kitten out of the tree.

[Sounder]

You are funny, Iamwhomiam.

As it happens, getting a cat out of a tree was an important event in my life.

I am scared of heights but the fire dept. wouldn't do it after the cat, not my cat, was very high up for two days.

So I climbed that tree and had a bit of adventure pulling claws off the limbs to move the cat a foot or so down the tree with each move.

Anyway, the cat, Ghee by name, had a wonderful personality, and was the only cat I ever knew who would stay right with me when I would go out for a walk.

God I loved that cat, thanks for the reminder.

So let's hear about all the wonderful things you've done to better society, Sounder.

I'd rather not toot my own horn Iamwhomiam, but thanks for the offer.

[slimmouse]

@ IamwhoIam. The examples Ive mentioned are found in any number of headlines from the Icke news website that appear over the course of any given month.

It does happen and it is very real and ongoing. This, from a couple of days ago is only semi related, but it gives you a general flavour. I will post more appropriate stuff here as it becomes reported on. ( I was looking for a themed thread to post them on previously, but never started one, so never bothered)

April 13, 2014 |
Angela Kirking, a 46-year-old face paint artist, woke up at 5am to four U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents and five cops with guns pointed, ransacking her home one morning last October. Their reasoning for the intrusion? Kirking purchased organic fertilizer from a gardening store. Kirking claims she bought fertilizer for her hibiscus plant

Link ; http://www.alternet.org/drugs/how-buyin ... -your-door


Meanwhile, I wonder what Snopes has to say about this....?

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), who was exposed last Friday as the mastermind behind the Bureau of Land Management’s persecution of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, can be seen in this March 2014 photo breaking ground for a new solar farm near the Bundy Ranch, emphasizing that the senator’s plan for solar projects in Nevada wasn’t just limited to the shelved solar farm near Laughlin.

More at link. http://www.infowars.com/flashback-sen-r ... ndy-ranch/

[Peachtree Pam]

This blogger, while asking for sympathy towards Bundy, believes that Bundy doesn't have a leg to stand on legally and explains why. He also explains what he sees as the situation with the tortoises.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2 ... -bundy.php

[Sounder]

Iamwhomiam wrote...

No, of course there wasn't. But I wasn't looking for a cure for all of society's ills, nor have I ever been so naive as to think that possible.

But I did not speak of or refer to YOU ‘looking for a cure for all of societies ills’. I was referring to high level operators and their methods for turning the general population into virtual if not actual slaves. You dance away from the substance of the assertions by turning the subject to you. (It’s not about you) It is an internal contradiction to say ‘But this is not about me’, when YOU turned the subject to you, along the way throwing in an outrageous slander that these things are; ‘Nothing of course you’d care about’.
At any rate Iamwhomiam, of course I support, approve, endorse, and appreciate your personal activism. (Not that you do or even should care.) Thank-you, as I consider personal activism much more likely to be useful than corp/gov prescriptions that tend to put people to sleep rather than waking them up.

It’s interesting that the ‘answer’ you give is in response to the following; where is the connection?

Look, I state my opinions, they run along the lines that AGW, as was the 'war on cancer', the 'green revolution', the 'war on drugs' and most other government do-gooder projects are in truth windfalls for 'leveraged players', with an added 'benefit' of scrambling peoples heads up by divorcing form from function.

That is, there was never any high level care or even desire to 'cure' the great illness at hand.

How can people think there was any real care for a 'cure' when those same folk rain DU ammunition all over the mid-east, or ignore a full nuclear meltdown, or compromise everyone's immune systems with glyphosate and GMO laden food?

Iamwhomiam wrote....

Just little things, like creating law that allows senior citizens to own a pet in public housing anywhere in the USA. Or creating law to provide funds for our elderly to make emergency repairs on their home. Nothing of course you'd care about. Creating precedent in case law that future cases will depend upon and be strengthened by.

But this is not about me. I certainly don't need your support or approval.

It's become more about you making false and unsubstantial claims about me, about Reid, about the Chinese solar project without any factual basis for doing so.

I am fairly consistent in claiming that we are all manipulated through our pretenses. I claimed nothing about the Chinese solar project, or Reid. I said I didn’t care and that this business is a data mining operation and distraction from more relevant Ukraine issues.

The Reid bit was to show that people love crap, I suppose because substance scares them shitless and they see crap so much that they grow to love it.

[Sounder]

Thanks for that John Hinderaker article Peachtree Pam.

He builds useful perspective for this situation, although his conservative bent will probably discount the observations in some folks eyes.

It pretty much affirms my original statement that this business is about driving rural folk off the land and driving all of us into greater dependency on corp/gov agendas.

The water rights component and pay to play no doubt play a greater role than the material that most commenters give their time and focus to.