"The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby guruilla » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:54 pm

New comment at blog:
I think he was capable of anything…He was supposed to be an advocate at the time for child rights……but there are photographs of his own child smoking ……presumably they also had the “rights” to take drugs and engage in sex with adults too.

Didn’t one of his children die at his “Abbey”? …supposedly of some illness.

This last sounds familiar but I have not been able to confirm it as yet.

"Child rights" of course rings the usual bells.
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby guruilla » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:16 pm

From Wikipedia:

Two women, Hirsig and Shumway (her magical name was Sister Cypris after Aphrodite), both became pregnant by Crowley at the Abbey. Hirsig had a miscarriage, but Shumway gave birth to a daughter (11/12/20), Astarte Lulu Panthea. From 1931, Astarte was raised in the US by Helene Fraux. Astarte would grow up to have four children of her own, including jazz pianist Eric Muhler. On arrival in Sicily, Hirsig had a two-year-old son named Hansi and Shumway had a three-year-old son named Howard; they were not Crowley's sons but he nicknamed them Dionysus and Hermes respectively. At some point, Hirsig suspected Shumway of magical foul play, and Crowley found supporting evidence of it in Shumway's magical diary (everybody had to keep one while at the abbey for reasons explained in Liber E). Appalled, Crowley banished Shumway from the abbey, however, she soon returned to take care of her children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_of_Thelema


From The Wonders of Sicily website:

In 1921 Leah Hirsig writes in her diary:

"I dedicate myself wholly to the great work. I will work for wickedness. I will kill my heart. I will be shameless before all men. I will freely prostitue my body to all creatures."

In January 1920, Crowley moved to Paris with Leah Hirsig; they were soon joined in a ménage à trois by Ninette Shumway, and also by Leah's newborn daughter Anne "Poupée" Leah.

Crowley offered a libertine education for the children, allowing them to play all day and witness acts of sex magic. He occasionally travelled to Palermo to visit rent boys and buy supplies, including drugs; his heroin addiction came to dominate his life, and cocaine began to erode his nasal cavity.
...
Subsequently, a young Thelemite named Raoul Loveday moved to the Abbey with his wife Betty May; while Loveday was devoted to Crowley, May detested him and life at the commune. She later claimed that Loveday was made to drink the blood of a sacrificed cat, and that they were required to cut themselves with razors every time they used the pronoun "I". Raoul drank from a local polluted stream, soon developing a liver infection resulting in his death in February 1923. Returning to London, May told her story to the press. John Bull proclaimed Crowley "the wickedest man in the world" and "a man we'd like to hang", making various slanderous accusations against him, but he was unable to afford the legal fees to sue them. As a result, John Bull continued its attack, with the stories also being picked up by newspapers in North America and throughout Europe. The Fascist government of Benito Mussolini learned of Crowley's activities and in April 1923 he was given a deportation notice forcing him to leave Italy; without him, the Abbey closed.
http://www.wondersofsicily.com/cefalu-a ... helema.htm
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby semper occultus » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:28 pm

......well there's the alleged experience of the self-styled witch Alex Sanders who tbh isn't regarded as a very credible source...

At ten, she took him to London to meet Aleister Crowley, whom she knew.

'She left me with Crowley for the night and he carried out some of his sex magic with me,’ said Alex. 'It wasn't a very nice experience. To me, as a young boy, he was just a horrible, smelly, old man. Before I left he tattooed his “mark of the beast” on my hand. It's still there. It hardly turned me off sex though.


http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=426101&postcount=1

..and as a bisexual adventurer his work The Scented Garden of Abdullah the Satirist of Shiraz....Crowley's exultant take on homo-erotic Persian poetry...

...The Scented Garden deals entirely with pederasty of which the author saw much evidence in India" Crowley wrote of his book....

..its not totally clear what exactly he means by paederasty although it seems difficult to think he is referring exclusively to adult homosexuality as opposed to the accepted definition of inter-generational relations between adolescents and adults

"Why, in short, (quoth Mr. Moses Monometallist) loving women as you do, sir, do you go to boys and men? Is it only for variety? If not, in what does the charm consist?"

Hindus claim that advanced Yogis can always recognize at sight those who have ever attained this condition, just as the Freemasonry of Paederasts makes the formality of introduction superfluous among free companions of the Craft.

In treating of this matter I must first premise that by paederasty I mean actual sodomy as defined by British law {fn1} immisio penis in corpus vivum.
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby guruilla » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:42 pm

this just in (TRIGGER ALERT):

In the writings of Betty May who visited the Abbey with husband/poet Raoul Loveday (who also died there!) about life at the Abbey and the five year old son of Leah Hirsig (Crowley's "Scarlet Woman") called Hansi .

"The children were allowed to run free,even being allowed to witness the sexual relations of the residents.Crowley believed this would alleviate any "repression" the children could develop.
The children received almost no discipline and problems soon arose,the Scarlet womans child Hansi contracted the cigarette habit at the age of five and was such a "fiend" you never saw him without one in his mouth .........."

And this is also of great interest from his diaries about the Scarlet woman...........

August 12th 1920 - "Her breasts itch with lust of Incest. She hath given Her two-year bastard boy to Her lewd lover's whim of sodomy, hath taught him speech and act, things infinitely abhorred, with Her own beastly carcass. She hath tongued Her five-month girl, and asked its father to deflower it."


This quote from Crowley's diaries seems to imply that both Crowley and Leah Hirsig not only molested her son Hansi Carter aka ‘Dionysus’ [whose father was Edward Carter] but that Crowley also ‘deflowered’ his own daughter who was only five months old. The daughter Anne Leah, nicknamed Poupee, had been born in late February 1920. Of course, if this molestation is true then Crowley might have been directly responsible for causing her death less than two months later on October 14th.... We also know that Poupee’s death was so traumatic to Hirsig that six days later she, who was three months pregnant with another child by Crowley, miscarried and lost this child too...
https://auticulture.wordpress.com/2015/ ... mment-6333
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby tapitsbo » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:32 pm

At this point I'm pretty convinced that Crowley was both a homicidal child molester AND an exaggerator of his exploits in that department.
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby guruilla » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:12 pm

During his visit to the Sicilian temple, Kinsey registered no ethical, moral, or humane objection to the practices and paintings of satanic sex magic evident at Crowley’s “Unnatural Abbey.” The images covering the walls garishly depict children and adults in real-life, ritual sado-sexual ceremonies. (KINSEY: Crimes & Consequences(PDF), by Judith Reisman, citing Bill Landis, Anger, The Unauthorized Biography of Kenneth Anger, Harper Collins, New York, 1995.)

Nothing much showing up on google images. May be untrue...
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby semper occultus » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:36 pm

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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:42 pm

guruilla » Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:12 pm wrote:
During his visit to the Sicilian temple, Kinsey registered no ethical, moral, or humane objection to the practices and paintings of satanic sex magic evident at Crowley’s “Unnatural Abbey.” The images covering the walls garishly depict children and adults in real-life, ritual sado-sexual ceremonies. (KINSEY: Crimes & Consequences(PDF), by Judith Reisman, citing Bill Landis, Anger, The Unauthorized Biography of Kenneth Anger, Harper Collins, New York, 1995.)

Nothing much showing up on google images. May be untrue...


Crowley likely did murder a man in India and also practiced child abuse and neglect of his own children and other children at Cefalu.

I know of no instances of ritual murder or ritual sex magic with children. I expect there were instances of sex magick with individuals that were adolescents and who would now be considered under-aged and illegal sexual partners as he was a consumer of prostitutes.

There are roles for adolescents of both sexes in the Gnostic Mass as designed by Crowley.

IMHO there is much unsavory about Crowley. Crowley made a practice of using people emotionally, materially, and physically. Crowley was into S and M as well as a heroin addiction that owned him until his death. His philosophy was libertine but also racist and rightwing; Crowley was a man of the colonial British Empire.

Crowley was an attention whore and wallowed in his reputation as the "Evilest Man in the World". Betty May was the partner of a man named Loveday that died in Italy. This event and her tales were what set off the infamous trial in England. Betty May likely exaggerated events. I have never read her book.

With rare exceptions IMHO, his poetry sucks. Exceptions are Aha! and Ode to Pan. He climbed mountains, played chess, wrote novels, painted, used illegal drugs, and was an irregular Freemason (not accepted by the Grand Lodge of England). He had some (not as much as he thought) originality in the practice of ceremonial magic and mysticism. He impacted a variety of present day systems (wicca, Rosicrucian, ceremonial magic, tarot, astrology, and so on). Crowley did not consider himself a Satanist but was more than willing to be called a Satanist by the public.

I am glad that Crowley existed. He was a multiple talented and a genius with a huge body of work. Still to me Crowley was an unsavory character and not a good role model, just a highly flawed and self-centered man who lived a life of interest because of his talents, opportunities, and ambitions.

Crowley was a British agent. The fact is documented in this book published in 2014. The Amazon description leaves out that Churton had previously unavailable records from British archives regarding Crowley's service as an agent of the Crown while in Weimar Germany.

http://www.amazon.com/Aleister-Crowley- ... many+Agent

Aleister Crowley: The Beast in Berlin: Art, Sex, and Magick in the Weimar Republic Hardcover – June 26, 2014

by Tobias Churton


A biographical history of Aleister Crowley’s activities in Berlin from 1930 to 1932 as Hitler was rising to power

• Examines Crowley’s focus on his art, his work as a spy for British Intelligence, his colorful love life and sex magick exploits, and his contacts with magical orders

• Explores Crowley’s relationships with Berlin’s artists, filmmakers, writers, and performers such as Christopher Isherwood, Jean Ross, and Aldous Huxley

• Recounts the fates of Crowley’s friends and colleagues under the Nazis as well as what happened to Crowley’s lost art exhibition

Gnostic poet, painter, writer, and magician Aleister Crowley arrived in Berlin on April 18, 1930. As prophet of his syncretic religion “Thelema,” he wanted to be among the leaders of art and thought, and Berlin, the liberated future-gazing metropolis, wanted him. There he would live, until his hurried departure on June 22, 1932, as Hitler was rapidly rising to power and the black curtain of intolerance came down upon the city.

Known to his friends affectionately as “The Beast,” Crowley saw the closing lights of Berlin’s artistic renaissance of the Weimar period when Berlin played host to many of the world’s most outstanding artists, writers, filmmakers, performers, composers, architects, philosophers, and scientists, including Albert Einstein, Bertolt Brecht, Ethel Mannin, Otto Dix, Aldous Huxley, Jean Ross, Christopher Isherwood, and many other luminaries of a glittering world soon to be trampled into the mud by the global bloodbath of World War II.

Drawing on previously unpublished letters and diary material by Crowley, Tobias Churton examines Crowley’s years in Berlin and his intense focus on his art, his work as a spy for British Intelligence, his colorful love life and sex magick exploits, and his contacts with German Theosophy, Freemasonry, and magical orders. He recounts the fates of Crowley’s colleagues under the Nazis as well as what happened to Crowley’s lost art exhibition--six crates of paintings left behind in Germany as the Gestapo was closing in. Revealing the real Crowley long hidden from the historical record, Churton presents “the Beast” anew in all his ambiguous and, for some, terrifying glory, at a blazing, seminal moment in the history of the world.

The link below tries to debunk the exaggerated evil rumors about Crowley in one place. More than religious fundies still like to make Crowley more depraved than his wildest reputation.

http://saff.nfshost.com/crowley.htm

Crowley Bollocks - The Once-and-for-all Antidote To The Lying, Cheating, Wicked and Pathetic Accusations of Human Sacrifice, Murder and Criminal Activity Which The Fundies Want To Pin on an Innocent Man

PS. I am not saying one should put Crowley on a pedestal nor use him as a role model. I don't and would not recommend that path to others.
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby guruilla » Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:55 pm

PufPuf93 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:42 pm wrote:Crowley likely did murder a man in India and also practiced child abuse and neglect of his own children and other children at Cefalu.

I know of no instances of ritual murder or ritual sex magic with children. I expect there were instances of sex magick with individuals that were adolescents and who would now be considered under-aged and illegal sexual partners as he was a consumer of prostitutes.

....

I am glad that Crowley existed. He was a multiple talented and a genius with a huge body of work.

So unlike Jimmy Savile, the body of work makes up for the crimes?

Actually, we could make a case for being glad that JS exited too, since his influence on pop culture was immense and we might not have rock n' roll as it is without him.

This is not a case I am ever likely to make.

The possibility that AC was involved to whatever degree in the sexual abuse of children, just after one day's digging, now seems to be a lot more than a possibility. (I don't see any clear line between child abuse and sex with children, either, at least in terms of the harm inflicted.)

Three things that are now on the table:

1) Crowley participated in countless destructive activities including almost certainly sexual abuse if not murder of children
2) Crowley was not an iconoclast or an outsider (any more than my brother was) but an agent of the ruling class who was used for the spreading of specific ideologies and memes, for the purposes of social engineering. In other words, his appearance of being a countercultural pioneer and rebel was just that, an appearance.
3) There are countless individuals (inc. myself) who have been influenced by his work, in ways both direct and indirect, subtle and extreme, and who have become conscious and unconscious "carriers" of his "current," within which, inevitably, is embedded the hidden pathology (psychological trauma) that gave rise to it. Hence the desire for people to defend Crowley, rebuke all suggestions of any truly nefarious behaviors, and failing that, to separate the works from the man.

(I am guessing the 93 in PufPuf93 = a ref to current 93?)

I am not glad Crowley existed. Or at least no more glad than that Hitler or Savile existed. It is all grist for the mill and not really relevant what I think about anyone's existence. If Crowley was a genius then it's a good argument for the insanity of our culture that separates creative talent from wisdom, compassion, or kindness, and values the one above all the others.

What's relevant to me is how much I've been colonized by beliefs, values, symbols, and principals, via individuals' special "genius," values that do not represent anything which I truly value at a deeper level. Crowley pretty much fits into this category for me ~ even if I am still talking about him!
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby PufPuf93 » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:11 pm

guruilla » Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:55 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:42 pm wrote:Crowley likely did murder a man in India and also practiced child abuse and neglect of his own children and other children at Cefalu.

I know of no instances of ritual murder or ritual sex magic with children. I expect there were instances of sex magick with individuals that were adolescents and who would now be considered under-aged and illegal sexual partners as he was a consumer of prostitutes.

....

I am glad that Crowley existed. He was a multiple talented and a genius with a huge body of work.

So unlike Jimmy Savile, the body of work makes up for the crimes?

Actually, we could make a case for being glad that JS exited too, since his influence on pop culture was immense and we might not have rock n' roll as it is without him.

This is not a case I am ever likely to make.

The possibility that AC was involved to whatever degree in the sexual abuse of children, just after one day's digging, now seems to be a lot more than a possibility. (I don't see any clear line between child abuse and sex with children, either, at least in terms of the harm inflicted.)

Three things that are now on the table:

1) Crowley participated in countless destructive activities including almost certainly sexual abuse if not murder of children
2) Crowley was not an iconoclast or an outsider (any more than my brother was) but an agent of the ruling class who was used for the spreading of specific ideologies and memes, for the purposes of social engineering. In other words, his appearance of being a countercultural pioneer and rebel was just that, an appearance.
3) There are countless individuals (inc. myself) who have been influenced by his work, in ways both direct and indirect, subtle and extreme, and who have become conscious and unconscious "carriers" of his "current," within which, inevitably, is embedded the hidden pathology (psychological trauma) that gave rise to it. Hence the desire for people to defend Crowley, rebuke all suggestions of any truly nefarious behaviors, and failing that, to separate the works from the man.

(I am guessing the 93 in PufPuf93 = a ref to current 93?)

I am not glad Crowley existed. Or at least no more glad than that Hitler or Savile existed. It is all grist for the mill and not really relevant what I think about anyone's existence. If Crowley was a genius then it's a good argument for the insanity of our culture that separates creative talent from wisdom, compassion, or kindness, and values the one above all the others.

What's relevant to me is how much I've been colonized by beliefs, values, symbols, and principals, via individuals' special "genius," values that do not represent anything which I truly value at a deeper level. Crowley pretty much fits into this category for me ~ even if I am still talking about him!


You did some cherry picking of my post(s). I hesitated to post for the very reason that I do not want to be put in the position of being a Crowley follower because I am not and never have been; and, as a Crowley defender, I am weak sauce compared with the what has been said about the man (and his own penchant for building and enjoying his own dark mythology).

I made a post on the first page of this OP and in this OP I have been careful to stress that I am not and never have been a follower of Crowley aside from finding him an unsavory but interesting person; I am a book collectorthat found himself in time, space, and social order to have crossed paths repeatedly with people that are followers or otherwise interested in Crowley. The fact that I am a book collector is a reason I found RI and how come I find so much of interest at this forum. I have noted elsewhere at RI a collection of PKD and that my interests in books about ceremonial magic / mysticism / hermeticism / etc. go far beyond Crowley. Part of my interest in this area is because of the relation with the history of science. I have other specific subsets of a book collection including Jim Thompson, John Steinbeck, the Beats, the 60s, American Indian anthropology of three specific Tribes, north coast California local history, historical gold and other pioneering mining in California, forestry, and natural science. Plus many biographies (six Crowley, I like the Sutin and Kaczynski best) and travel books. Also I am not above being entertained or speculating upon David Icke, Graham Hancock, Sitchin, and the like. I had a major theft of American Indian anthropology and local historical records -- not artifacts which I do not possess -- in Fall 2013; items that were rare or unique and had been destined for Humboldt State or the Humboldt Historical Society on my death.

I do differentiate between Crowley and Savile in that the banal evil of Savile was specifically as a pedophile while Crowley may have most certainly was involved in child neglect / abuse and sex with adolescents but probably not in a ritual sense and most certainly not the mass quantities of ritual infanticide regards the "Crowley Joke".
In real life my general impression if that there is far more rape, incest, child abuse, violence, nasty drugs (meth, heroin, crack, alcoholism) and the like among rural poor and American Indians of my childhood and now old age than among the on average more worldly and educated Crowley followers of the San Francisco Bay area or Portland, OR. Savile was much more ingrained and protected than was Crowley by the ruling class.

I agree with you on point (1) but not to degree. Much waste of opportunities.

I agree with you on point (2) that Crowley was a product of the ruling class and believed in and carried on the memes of British colonialism and racism but did seed or revive much counterculture and became ever more the social pariah as he aged and died in an abject condition.

If one is a child of the countercultures of the 60s and 70s, one has been touched by Crowley even if unaware. Point (3) is correct but over extends into a purity pledge. I don't particularly like Crowley as a person nor many of his actions so will not defend.

I explained the 93 on page one of this thread; it is a Crowley troll, I am not thrilled for other reasons about the PufPuf (an immortal in a creation myth) either now.

Crowley worked really hard to have generated the body or work and experience.

Our society and species is insane and not at all kind, fair, or just. All one can do is walk their life and try to be positive and harmless to others and the planet.
Last edited by PufPuf93 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby guruilla » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:27 pm

Sorry, I forgot about your first post; hard to keep track of who posts what without going back over a newly bumped thread.

PufPuf93 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:44 pm wrote:
The "93" on my screen name is a Thelema troll. I have intermittently posted on the internet since 1994 and often incorporated "93" in my handle to see who would bite.

That said I was an associate (non-initiated but dues paying) member of the Caliphate OTO from 1993 to 2003 to get access to books, minds, and entertainment. I became acquainted with OTO people in Berkeley, Portland, and San Jose/Santa Cruz. My library is awesome (note PKD list in another recent thread), evidence of obsession, and varies in narrow topics from natural science to anthropology to history to literature to culture, serious works to those in the specific grooves. I have maybe 70 Crowley works including a 1st Edition of Magick in Theory and Practice and book #13 of the original OTO edition of The Book of Thoth. Between 2000 and 2003 I attended a number of OTO events, closed such as Rites of Mercury and open Gnostic Masses, largely because of a GF (from 2000 to 2003, funny that) who was too young and too wild for me. She perused my books and I directed her to specific works and she concluded, "You actually know some of these people? I want to see more". Sex magick. We first went to a closed Gnostic Mass performed by Lon Milo DuQuette for a dying RAW, I thought cool to meet RAW as RAW, Leary and PKD are what lead me to this path of entertainment and book collecting, not practice nor belief but influence on an evolving world view.

Edit to add:

"For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim."

This phrase is considered an insider jape by practitioners and scholars of Thelema. IMO it was a typical attention getting device by Crowley who also IMO is not a particularly savory role model but was a brilliant man of many interests. The line refers to masturbation. Crowley added to his enduring infamy and saddled future occultists with this catch by critics and fearmongers.

I think it's as or more likely that Crowley made deliberate "jokes" about depravities he was not committing as a way to muddy the waters regarding other crimes he was involved with. The human mind tends to have a hard time with ambiguity, hence you have those (often Christian) who see AC as a satanist who performed child sacrifices on regular occasions and indulged in every human depravity, on the one side, and those who say he was just stirring things up and being a blackly comic iconoclast.

Based on your testimony, you may have internalized AC's influence less than I did, hence feel less of an allergic reaction to it now. Maybe the only way to identify a poison is to fully ingest it?
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:33 pm

guruilla » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:27 pm wrote:Sorry, I forgot about your first post; hard to keep track of who posts what without going back over a newly bumped thread.

PufPuf93 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:44 pm wrote:
The "93" on my screen name is a Thelema troll. I have intermittently posted on the internet since 1994 and often incorporated "93" in my handle to see who would bite.

That said I was an associate (non-initiated but dues paying) member of the Caliphate OTO from 1993 to 2003 to get access to books, minds, and entertainment. I became acquainted with OTO people in Berkeley, Portland, and San Jose/Santa Cruz. My library is awesome (note PKD list in another recent thread), evidence of obsession, and varies in narrow topics from natural science to anthropology to history to literature to culture, serious works to those in the specific grooves. I have maybe 70 Crowley works including a 1st Edition of Magick in Theory and Practice and book #13 of the original OTO edition of The Book of Thoth. Between 2000 and 2003 I attended a number of OTO events, closed such as Rites of Mercury and open Gnostic Masses, largely because of a GF (from 2000 to 2003, funny that) who was too young and too wild for me. She perused my books and I directed her to specific works and she concluded, "You actually know some of these people? I want to see more". Sex magick. We first went to a closed Gnostic Mass performed by Lon Milo DuQuette for a dying RAW, I thought cool to meet RAW as RAW, Leary and PKD are what lead me to this path of entertainment and book collecting, not practice nor belief but influence on an evolving world view.

Edit to add:

"For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim."

This phrase is considered an insider jape by practitioners and scholars of Thelema. IMO it was a typical attention getting device by Crowley who also IMO is not a particularly savory role model but was a brilliant man of many interests. The line refers to masturbation. Crowley added to his enduring infamy and saddled future occultists with this catch by critics and fearmongers.

I think it's as or more likely that Crowley made deliberate "jokes" about depravities he was not committing as a way to muddy the waters regarding other crimes he was involved with. The human mind tends to have a hard time with ambiguity, hence you have those (often Christian) who see AC as a satanist who performed child sacrifices on regular occasions and indulged in every human depravity, on the one side, and those who say he was just stirring things up and being a blackly comic iconoclast.

Based on your testimony, you may have internalized AC's influence less than I did, hence feel less of an allergic reaction to it now. Maybe the only way to identify a poison is to fully ingest it?



Your speculation that Crowley made "jokes" about depravity he did not do to cover for his actual crimes may be part but not the entire parcel.

Crowley was man of privilege and selfishness that placed himself above the common law and social norms of the time; often he was operating beyond the geographic reach of then modern society and also was a self-define "Prophet". Crowley was a dark comic or satirist as the technique is common in his writings. The impact of the "child sacrifice", albeit through masturbation, is not as shocking nor weighty when one has read more of the body of Crowley's written work.

Crowley is dead and gone but influenced and influences many people. You may well have a very good point about the reaction by not internalizing Crowley. I read (and collected) Crowley because of the high weirdness and fringe personalities and thoughts associated with his works and never looked at Crowley as defining a spiritual path nor way to live. That is not to say that Crowley was not the starting place to other more studies taken more seriously but Crowley is more the burr under the saddle than a meal. I find a good portion of Crowley's actions repulsive and some of his writing poor, aged, or uninteresting.

The practicing Thelemites I met did not appear particularly evil, lawless, or unwholesome; meth heads and the like are much worse.
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby Elvis » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:27 pm

Posting these scans, mentioned in the Possible Interest thread, from Anger: The Unauthorized Biography of Kenneth Anger by Bill Landis.

There's much more about Crowley, but I saw no real smoking guns when I checked some pertinent index entries. In any event I scanned some extra pages of 'possible interest.' Looks like I can only upload three files in one post, so will continue in subsequent posts.

UB Kenneth Anger 001.jpg


UB Kenneth Anger 002.jpg


UB Kenneth Anger 003.jpg



(continued)
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“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby Elvis » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:33 pm

(...continued from above)


UB Kenneth Anger 004.jpg



Since this thread is about a Crowley "joke," I scanned this too:

UB Kenneth Anger 011.jpg




Here's one of the illustration pages:

UB Kenneth Anger 006.jpg
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“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: "The Crowley 'Joke' & My Allergic Reaction to Occultism"

Postby Elvis » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:41 pm

More scans from Anger: The Unauthorized Biography of Kenneth Anger by Bill Landis:

Relationships between Ken Anger and Jimmy Page, and others in the rock music world, are covered, the following four pages are part of that:


UB Kenneth Anger 007.jpg


UB Kenneth Anger 008.jpg


UB Kenneth Anger 009.jpg




(continued next post)
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“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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