"They have vacated the world of reason"

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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Nordic » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:21 am

SonicG » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:57 pm wrote:
Nordic » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:43 am wrote:Brekin.

I was horrified by Reagans election in 1980. So were all my friends. It was shocking.

But were we "literally shaking"? Did we CRY? Fuck no.

Did we wail and bemoan the voting process itself and scream and yell in the streets that he's "not my president"?

No. Of course not.

Did we all wish that anyone, no matter how evil they may be, overthrow Reagan? No we did not.


My friends formed bands and screamed and yelled about a slow slide into fascism :yay


Hysterical! Shocking! :partydance:

You didn't want Reagan and his gang of criminals investigated and frog-marched out of the White House for the October Surprise or Iran-Contra, or just for supporting the murderous fascists in Central America?



That came later. Felt the same way about Bush and Obama. Criminals all. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

This makes me think of an interesting point (to me anyway). The converse of the Trump hysteria was the hypnosis everyone seemed to be under with War criminal and friend-of-the-banksters and Trojan Horse Obama.

It makes me actually think they've figured out how to literally hypnotize us. Most of us. I'm apparently immune as are a small percentage of others, but I'd say 90% of the population seems to be hypnotized the same way they hypnotized Sirhan Sirhan. Either to let e wry crime be utterly ignored while we smiled sleepily at Obama, or turned into a frothing mob with Trump.

How do they do it?

It's always been their goal. We know that. Maybe they've succeeded at it.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Elvis » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:44 am

Very good "Velvet Rocket" page here—definitely worth scrolling through:

The Romanian Revolution Tour

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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby stefano » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:34 am

Nordic » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:21 am wrote:The converse of the Trump hysteria was the hypnosis everyone seemed to be under with War criminal and friend-of-the-banksters and Trojan Horse Obama.

It makes me actually think they've figured out how to literally hypnotize us. Most of us. I'm apparently immune as are a small percentage of others, but I'd say 90% of the population seems to be hypnotized the same way they hypnotized Sirhan Sirhan. Either to let e wry crime be utterly ignored while we smiled sleepily at Obama, or turned into a frothing mob with Trump.

How do they do it?

It's always been their goal. We know that. Maybe they've succeeded at it.


Everyone? 90% of the population? Really? Dude, I'm far away and I've seen plenty of bullshit calling Obama the 'worst president ever', some sort of sleeper Muslim Brother, socialist, hater of the white man and what not. And the same people who swallowed that (and still do - lots of people think Obama's personally trying to undermine Trump) will back Trump no matter what he does to their medical aid or how stupid he makes himself look.

Politics is more about identification than policy. Now a slight majority of Americans - 65.8m to 63.0m - identify more with the (actor playing the) smooth-talking wonkish lawyer than with the (actor playing the) brash, ballsy defender of the common man, and policies and actions don't matter. The media is solidly anti-Trump, though, that may be why you think 'everyone' feels that way.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:01 pm

Rory » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:04 pm wrote:https://thebaffler.com/salvos/from-russia-with-panic-levine

Comprehensively puts paid to the farcical hysteria that 'Russia hacked the election'. Worth reading in full - actual journalism rather than warmongering propaganda by professional liars, spoonfed to their MSM shills


Damn Rory that's some good stuff.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:30 pm

While I'm surrounded with plenty of neoliberals and liberals my age and older who are acting exactly as is described in this thread (it's obvious Willow and I have similar social circles), I'm thankful to be organizing with people further on the left - they keep me sane, and best of all, when we work against Trump, we barely even have to utter his name. The mode of operation here is building and constructing a better world — whining and shaking and crying ain't gonna do it — and it really has little to do with the administration.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Project Willow » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:12 pm

^ I take solace in visiting various online Bernie groups, the ones who haven't forgotten what happened last year. Sometimes their postings resemble conspiracy forums more than strictly political ones. It such a relief.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby brekin » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:55 pm

Well, with no clear conception of the past and present (reality) things are only going to get more unhinged.
People who continually say "it could have been worst if Clinton won" I would like to know how, because I'm just not seeing the headlines happening everyday being the ones she would have created. (Not to even mention tweets).

I think we are entering a new narcissistic cultural phase where if it isn't exactly the way you want it, then people just opt out.
With politics there is nothing but compromise between reality and ideals.
Somehow people are expecting the ideal. And a boolean operation happens where if they don't see it they think "they can wait until next time" to pick their "dream candidate".
This is a perfect example. A "progressive activist" didn't vote for Clinton and now blames everyone else for Trump's election.
It is the old maid adage of unreal expectations, "no one who wooed me was good enough to marry".
Good night, sweet prince of reason.

Why Bernie Sanders Voters Like Me Stayed Home
Guest post written by
Anthony Parisi
Mr. Parisi is a progressive activist from Long Island, New York. Twitter: @anthony_parisii.

President-Elect Donald Trump. Doesn’t that just make your skin crawl? Well that is the reality that is America in 2016.

Early in the morning on November 9, Americans everywhere were slowly hearing the news “Hillary Clinton calls Donald Trump to concede the presidency.” As a progressive, my heart dropped. Of course, like any political nerd, I had been watching the whole night, suffering through Wolf Blitzer freaking out about a few percentage points and the stupid way they called the race by projections on the Empire State Building. But after sitting through all of that, hearing the reporting that Hillary was conceding couldn’t be real; this had to be a nightmare. Unfortunately it was not.

It didn’t have to be this way--if everyone on the Democratic side did their job, under any normal election (not rigged by the Clinton team and the DNC, but we’ll get there). I use the term Clinton “team” because it is so hard to differentiate between the foundation and the campaign.

Hillary Clinton was always going to be at the head of the Democrat ticket in 2016. This was decided by the party leaders in 2008. She would drop out, if everyone got out of her way in 2016. The only serious primary challenge she faced was from outside the Democrat party, independent Bernie Sanders. The DNC saw that the momentum was with Sanders and killed it; they saw the beginnings of an actual political movement that the Clinton campaign could not compete with.

The 2016 presidential race should have been the fight between two outsiders, Donald Trump v. Bernie Sanders. If the heads of the DNC would have seen the signs, that were all there, they would have switched their allegiance to Senator Sanders. I believe this for a number of reasons:

1. Rust Belt. Where was this election won and lost? In the “Rust Belt.” The Midwestern former industrial area of the country was struck hardest recently with the loss of factory jobs. Trump won Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania and Michigan. Hard to believe that Sanders could do worse than this (also remember that Sanders beat Hillary in Michigan and Wisconsin during the primary season).

2. Enthusiasm. Every reporter out there has claimed recently that Clinton rallies had no enthusiasm and actually were boring, small and didn’t seem like that in the final stretch of a winning campaign. Sanders' campaign had an enthusiasm that only matches Trump and President Obama’s coalition in 2008. Millenials also came out in large numbers for Sanders; they did not come out for Clinton in the numbers she needed.

3. Anyone who was alive during this campaign could tell that it was a “change year.” Putting all your eggs in the Clinton basket just didn’t make any sense. She is the opposite of change and fooled no one when she tried to prove she could be.

4. Finally, Clinton’s unfavorable ratings should have scared everyone off. Secretary Clinton has been a public figure for decades; there was going to be people who don’t like her. But her numbers on trust should have scared away anyone at the DNC. Maybe they thought they could slip her past us because of Trump’s extreme unfavorable numbers, but why even risk it when our democracy hangs in the balance?

Clinton was just the wrong candidate for 2016, and anyone who ever took PoliSci101 could have seen that. Clinton had such major setbacks that no one should have gone near her this election cycle. These are some of the things that turned off voters:

1. Clinton Foundation. The Clinton Foundation has been an issue for years, and no one on team Clinton had a good enough answer to the questions. The Clintons took money from some of the worst governments in the world, millions of dollars for a 15-minute talk. The Justice Department might need to prove you're guilty of a crime to go after you, but the voters don’t.

2. Bill. Bill Clinton was a very good president. We had ridiculous growth in our economy, we used our military effectively in the Balkans, and everyone seemed to forgive the impeachment in time. Then President Clinton started going on the campaign trail and bashing Obamacare, and getting into arguments with Black Lives Matter protesters over a law from 20 years ago (it seemed that the former president was trying to defend himself first, over trying to campaign for his wife). Who can forget about his infamous meeting with Loretta Lynch? It’s a shame we have to see such a man who most Democrats used to adore throwing his wife’s campaign under the bus.

3. Team Clinton. The final major issue with Clinton is the team she surrounded herself with. Robby Mook, her Campaign Director ran a terrible campaign. (Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner's marriage problems--need I say anymore?) She didn’t get the big name she wanted, David Axelrod, who helped Obama win the White House. I can’t emphasize enough how horrendously bad the campaign run by Mook was. Losing Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Iowa and Michigan is one of the worst showings in a national election of all time. The Clinton Campaign never went to Wisconsin during the general election and too late realized how close Michigan was, and they also thought Florida was a sure thing. It was not.

4. Change. Hillary Clinton was not going to change anything. She told the American people she would, and they just took that as another lie. No one had any confidence in her because she was part of the problem they wanted to get rid of.

In my eyes, the DNC is as much to blame as Team Clinton. The straight-up corruption in the DNC/Clinton Team is mind blowing. Here's a quick look at all of the ways the DNC was working for the Clinton Campaign the whole time:

1. Scheduling the debates on Friday and Saturday nights, knowing no one would watch and Clinton would win by default, purely our of name recognition.
2. The DNC, under the leadership of Debbie Wasserman Schultz had looked into many different ways of discrediting opponent Senator Sanders, even calling into question his religion.
3. After Wasserman Schultz was forced out of her DNC position, she was immediately brought onto the Clinton team as a campaign chairperson. Showing the Clinton Campaign's lack of respect for the Sanders' progressives.
4. Donna Brazile was named Wasserman Schultz’s successor at the DNC. After leaving CNN for her new DNC position, it was found that Brazile was giving questions from the debates she received from CNN (CNN still claims they did not give Brazile the questions). Not only was she obviously biased in favor of Hillary Clinton, she destroyed any credibility she had as a journalist and dragged CNN through the mud as well (something CNN has no problem doing on its own).

If you can point the finger at anyone on the Democratic side for a Trump presidency, there are three fingers to point: Hillary Clinton (obviously), Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Donna Brazile. (Brazile not only lost to this horrible Republican candidate, she also was the campaign manager for Al Gore’s presidential run.) Those three should just be the beginning of what the entire Democratic party must do as an over haul. I am hoping for many firings coming from the DNC. We were expecting the Republicans to have to do an autopsy again after this race, but now it's the Democrats who must cut open this cadaver and, to quote our future president, “Figure out what the hell is going on.”

The DNC and Team Clinton expected a coronation; they felt it was her turn. They forgot that no one is going to give you a turn; it's a fight for every vote.
Looking into the future (because I still can’t bear to live in the present), what does this mean next?


Democrats should see that the centrist way of life is no longer a viable option. Democrats must become more progressive (look towards Senators Sanders and Warren). They must fight hard on all issues important to liberals. Issues like the environment, student loan debt, Black Lives Matter, food safety and, most importantly, the economy.

Democrats must force the move forward; they cannot get stuck up on the present and look to the future. They must stop the attacks on James Comey (he did Clinton no favors, but it was her flaws the lost the race). They cannot stay in the center and hope for “Reagan Democrats” and Paul Ryan-types of Republicans; they won't vote for them ever. If centrist Republicans didn’t vote Democrat now, they never will. The Democratic Party also can’t become more polarized and only focus on minorities and those in the inner cities. That would only anger the Trump supporters and continue to divide the nation even more.

I believe that if the entire Democrat party doesn’t move to the left, we will begin to see a three-party system. The Left (Sanders, Warren), the Center (Bush family and Clinton family) and the Right (Trump, Alt Right Movement).

As I earlier said in the article, many, many people need to be fired. The only positive about a Trump presidency is that maybe he really will “clean out the swamp." But once that swamp is drained, we need to send progressive, forward-thinking Americans to Washington, no longer career politicians. This is not the time to run; its’s the time to stand strong, fight. We have a President Trump coming into power in January; all progressives out there better be ready for the four-year fight of their lives.

I would most certainly consider myself a liberal, progressive and feminist. For me and my fellow “Bernie bros” to spend the primary fighting off claims of sexism is one of the most absurd claims I’ve ever heard. This is the type of political correctness that is ruining this nation. Because you called all the Bernie Progressives sexists, so by the time a true sexist came up against you, no one listened. Democrats in power, something needs to be done to ensure such an embarrassing loss never happens again. As a progressive, feminist and Bernie Bro, I am going to say something I never wanted to say but trust me it hurts me more than it hurts you: We told you so.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2 ... e2ac0f539f
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I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Cordelia » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:32 pm

Nordic » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:43 am wrote:Brekin.

I was horrified by Reagans election in 1980. So were all my friends. It was shocking.

But were we "literally shaking"? Did we CRY? Fuck no.

Did we wail and bemoan the voting process itself and scream and yell in the streets that he's "not my president"?

No. Of course not.

Did we all wish that anyone, no matter how evil they may be, overthrow Reagan? No we did not.

Everybody is acting like Donald Trump is Hitler.

And if you think people were "stupid" for voting for Trump, a valid argument could be made that voting for Clinton was even more stupid.

It's pretty clear what is going on as far as the spook media and the neocons, the Dems, everything else. It's the hysteria which surprises me. And the ease with which the media gets the public to follow their laser-pointer. The US populace has turned into a herd of cats.

That's what surprises me.


Reagan's election really shook up Washington and the climate changed dramatically after November 4, 1980.

Don't forget the attempted coup, less than three months after the inauguration, most likely from inside the Regime. (If I were Trump, I think I'd go into hiding between March 15th and 31st).

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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Rory » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:48 pm

It was a successful coup, no? GHW was president for 12 years
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Nordic » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:26 pm

stefano » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:34 am wrote:
Nordic » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:21 am wrote:The converse of the Trump hysteria was the hypnosis everyone seemed to be under with War criminal and friend-of-the-banksters and Trojan Horse Obama.

It makes me actually think they've figured out how to literally hypnotize us. Most of us. I'm apparently immune as are a small percentage of others, but I'd say 90% of the population seems to be hypnotized the same way they hypnotized Sirhan Sirhan. Either to let e wry crime be utterly ignored while we smiled sleepily at Obama, or turned into a frothing mob with Trump.

How do they do it?

It's always been their goal. We know that. Maybe they've succeeded at it.


Everyone? 90% of the population? Really? Dude, I'm far away and I've seen plenty of bullshit calling Obama the 'worst president ever', some sort of sleeper Muslim Brother, socialist, hater of the white man and what not. And the same people who swallowed that (and still do - lots of people think Obama's personally trying to undermine Trump) will back Trump no matter what he does to their medical aid or how stupid he makes himself look.

Politics is more about identification than policy. Now a slight majority of Americans - 65.8m to 63.0m - identify more with the (actor playing the) smooth-talking wonkish lawyer than with the (actor playing the) brash, ballsy defender of the common man, and policies and actions don't matter. The media is solidly anti-Trump, though, that may be why you think 'everyone' feels that way.


You bring up a good point. Fact is, I live in California and we basically gave Clinton her "popular vote" margin. Worse, I live in Los Angeles and in the entertainment industry. So yeah I am right in the epicenter of what is very likely Ground Zero of Hysteria. It's extremely unbalanced (in more ways than one).
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby SonicG » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:36 pm

So you would be for the secession of California if it wasn't a commie front? I keed I keed - in the words of Triumph the Insult Dog...
But, yeah, Burn Hollywood Burn...La-La Land indeed...Thank Buddha that whitesplaining jazz was edged out for Best Picture...White guilt finally hit the old white men of the Academy I guess. Such a shitshow...The hypocrisy of the Hollywood 1% has reached unbearable proportions but hopefully some of their illicit loot (thank you China!) can be purposed to slow the cresting wave of the Heritage Foundation takeover...

"The media is solidly anti-Trump"...except, of course, for Fox News and the cottage industry of right-wing conspiracy fanatics - from Rense to Infowars to WND, and now they have a voice and actual positions in the administration. With a sizable, not a majority of course, but a solid 60+ million who can also be said to have vacated the world of reason for xenophobia, racism, sexism...

To wit:
Meet the Hundreds of Officials Trump Has Quietly Installed Across the Government
We have obtained a list of more than 400 Trump administration hires, including dozens of lobbyists and some from far-right media.

A Trump campaign aide who argues that Democrats committed “ethnic cleansing” in a plot to “liquidate” the white working class. A former reality show contestant whose study of societal collapse inspired him to invent a bow-and-arrow-cum-survivalist multi-tool. A pair of healthcare industry lobbyists. A lobbyist for defense contractors. An “evangelist” and lobbyist for Palantir, the Silicon Valley company with close ties to intelligence agencies. And a New Hampshire Trump supporter who has only recently graduated from high school.

...
Curtis Ellis was a columnist for WorldNetDaily, a website best known for its enthusiastic embrace of the false notion that President Obama was born outside the United States. A column headlined the “The Radical Left’s Ethnic Cleansing of America” won Ellis an admiring interview with Steve Bannon, now Trump’s top aide. He is a longtime critic of trade deals such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Ellis was hired Jan. 20 as a special assistant to the secretary at the Labor Department. Asked about his role in a brief phone interview Tuesday, he said: “Nothing I can tell you.”

Jon Perdue, a self-described guerrilla warfare expert and fellow at a little-known security think tank, wrote a book called “The War of All the People: The Nexus of Latin American Radicalism and Middle Eastern Terrorism.” He is also a onetime contributor to Breitbart.

Perdue was featured on CNBC’s reality series “Make Me a Millionaire Inventor” for his invention, the Packbow, which Perdue came up with while studying “collapsed societies, and what people who lived in those societies came up with to either defend themselves or to survive.” It’s a bow and arrow that doubles as a compass, tent pole, walking stick, spearfishing rig, and water purification tablet receptacle.

Perdue was hired as a special assistant at the Treasury Department. The agency didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

https://www.propublica.org/article/meet ... government


World Net fucking Daily...Fair enough, Obama staffed positions with people from Counterpunch, Z Magazine...
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Cordelia » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:32 am

Rory » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:48 pm wrote:It was a successful coup, no? GHW was president for 12 years


No, because Reagan lived; he may have been a de facto president during Reagan's eight years, but the assassination attempt failed to earn him the titleship.
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We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby American Dream » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:43 am

Recall though that the Iran Contra operation was more centered on the VP's office in an operational sense: Donald Gregg (GHWB's boy) really ran the guns for drugs scam that North, Secord et al, implemented. So when Reagan said he didn't know/didn't remember that may have been true to a good degree. Thus, after the shooting I have to wonder who really was "the President"....
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby kool maudit » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:17 am

Concerning the OP, the Russia-hacked-the-election narrative comes from the release of the DNC/Podesta/Clinton emails by Wikileaks.

This, of course, was a public service whatever its motivations. Full stop.
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Re: "They have vacated the world of reason"

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:26 pm

American Dream » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:43 am wrote:Recall though that the Iran Contra operation was more centered on the VP's office in an operational sense: Donald Gregg (GHWB's boy) really ran the guns for drugs scam that North, Secord et al, implemented. So when Reagan said he didn't know/didn't remember that may have been true to a good degree. Thus, after the shooting I have to wonder who really was "the President"....


An excellent point. Lawrence E. Walsh's "Firewall" really laid out the mechanics of that; a dry, boring but remarkable work.

Definitely, my big takeaway from that tome was that foreign & domestic policy was all being routed through Bush and his shadow cabinet. Walsh had no shortage of documentation, although thanks to plausible deniability and active interference from alphabet soup Bush allies, never enough to make a dang case...
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