Nuclear Meltdown Watch

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby eyeno » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:43 pm

Nuclear Plant Operator: Water in Pool Storing Spent Nuclear Fuel Rods May Be Boiling, an Ominous Sign for Release of Radioactivity
Kyodo News reports:

A nuclear crisis at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant deepened Tuesday as fresh explosions occurred at the site and its operator said water in a pool storing spent nuclear fuel rods may be boiling, an ominous sign for the release of high-level radioactive materials from the fuel.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said the water level in the pool storing the spent fuel rods at its Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant's No. 4 reactor may have dropped, exposing the rods.





more at link

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/03/ ... er-in.html
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:47 pm

WakeUpAndLive wrote:
23 wrote:Perhaps the heavy cultural motivator of saving face is playing a role.

Cultural influences can be very powerful prompters for (in)action.


This was my thought exactly....Toyota quickly comes to mind with actions similar in nature.


8bit, I felt exactly the same way. It is unreal...I really can't put into words how appreciative and hopeful I am that those people are still safe.


Well we all know of areas of the world where people are forced all day with no pay to do hazardous or harsh labor.
Yet there is something about the role of people whose job is to "secure the future" in a kamikaze sort of way...like in a film when one of them says "yiu guys get out of here, i'll fight off the monsters as long as I can" and then as the rest of the survivors run for it you hear "take that you...awwwwwwWWWW! crunch"

Who knows what is really going on with that situation though. Some sites make it sound like it's Chernobyl on steroids, some media coverage makes it sound minimal.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:51 pm

hava1 wrote:Israel absorbed quite a number of Chenobyl victims, those who qualified. They have their own lobby group for medical needs and subsidies etc. ("Chernobyl project"). Some of them have cancer others just lost their entire hair, but did not (yet) get sick, which means
that we dont know a whole lot about those effects. Didnt hear about birth defects in the media, which just means that I didnt, not that the problem doesnt exist but its probably not huge.
(I would say, coming myself partly from Belarus, that even without radiation, the genetics is not great :) maybe some mutation will do the trick...sorry for cynicism, but really the culture there is, kind of deadly even without pollution.

but seriously, it might be possible for a rather quick adjustment of the human system to elevated levels of radioactive radiation and perhaps the next generation will be far more immune to this kind of new pollution.



8bitagent wrote:I felt sadness reading about "the 50" at the plants, working in the dark with little protection as a "last line of defense". Knowing they could very well die, and most likely will get very sick. It's like out of a movie, people making sacrifices. Virtually all of the people who worked to contain Chernobyl on the ground and by air ended up dying and or becoming unbelievably stricken. If the situation becomes worse, one has to wonder how much of Japan could be affected with toxic clouds.

I haven't read newer statistics, but I wonder how many people ended up dying and or suffering horrible illnesses(as well as offspring born with birth defects) in Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, etc from the Chernobyl fallout


Well Israel knows all about the horrors of radiation(what was it, tens of thousands of Moroccan children given mass amounts of radiation by US Army funded doctors in the 1950's)
I have heard that the genetics in Russia, Ukraine, etc has been dramatically plagued by all sorts of problems. I wonder if some of that is from nuclear energy exposure or other forms of environmental poisoning.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:16 pm

Nuclear Waste is the Achille's Heal...
Nuclear Waste is the Achille's Heal...
Submitted by louisehartmann on 16. March 2011 - 11:43
Live Blog Thom's Blog
You need to know this. As the death toll soars from last Friday’s 9.0 earthquake and tsunami – 50 Japanese nuclear plant workers are putting their lives on the line to prevent another catastrophe in Japan – nuclear meltdown. All 6 GE Mark I reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant are dangerously close to melting down – but that’s not even the worst of it. Sitting on top of each reactors are pools of nuclear waste that contain larger amounts of harmful radiation than the reactors themselves.

And there are reports that those pools of waste are overheating – catching fire – and spewing that highly toxic radioactive waste into the atmosphere. It’s like a massive dirty bomb being constantly detonated over the plant. Late last night – the remaining workers at the plant were evacuated due to extreme levels of radiation detected when pressure was relieved from one of the reactors. Those workers returned shorty after the radiation subsided.

While their heroics should be recognized – it’s starting to look like they’re playing a losing game of whack-a-mole. As they desperately try to cool one reactor with seawater – the other reactors start to overheat – and so on. We should be taking note here in the United States. We have 104 operational nuclear power plants dotting the country – and many of them use the very same Mark 1 reactor design that is now under criticism in Japan.

A reactor that was designed by General Electric - that prompted 3 GE workers to resign 35 years ago in protest because they argued the design was flawed and the reactor would be unable to contain nuclear material should a cooling system malfunction occur. And it turns out today - these guys were right. Japan is not some third world nation – their power grid is just as advanced as ours – if not more so – so to believe that what’s happening there couldn’t happen here is naïve.

But...wait! There's more....

While the rest of the world reconsiders nuclear power – Americans could get screwed by elected representatives who are snugly in the pocket of the nuclear energy lobby. Switzerland, Germany, and even Hugo Chavez’s Venezuela have all put a hold on nuclear power pending a full review. But in America – where money and politics are fused together – it’s unlikely the same sort of precautions will be taken here.

Politico notes that last year – the nuclear power lobby spent tens of millions of dollars in campaign contributions and lobbying efforts to ensure a future spot in America’s energy portfolio. And like the big oil lobby – these guys don’t even blink at the future risks posed by their industry.

Let’s hope it doesn’t take a catastrophe like what’s happening in Japan – to happen here – before our elected representatives wake up to the dangers of nuclear power.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:37 pm

eyeno wrote:
justdrew wrote:FYI - the entire mainstream media newscycle is about 24 hours behind reality on this.


How far are you from Fukushima? Luv ya buddy, stay safe...

.


oh, I'm here in the pacific northwest of the US, just following closely, worried about being on the receiving end of plutonium dust. I've had no chance to look into it since this morning.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby ninakat » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:48 pm



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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 82_28 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:02 pm

On the toob just now, US government is advising all to stay away from the plant by at least 50 miles, "much larger area than Japanese authorities suggest".
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby eyeno » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:05 pm

justdrew wrote:
eyeno wrote:
justdrew wrote:FYI - the entire mainstream media newscycle is about 24 hours behind reality on this.


How far are you from Fukushima? Luv ya buddy, stay safe...

.


oh, I'm here in the pacific northwest of the US, just following closely, worried about being on the receiving end of plutonium dust. I've had no chance to look into it since this morning.


Good news. Thought you were in Japan.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:11 pm

eyeno wrote:
justdrew wrote:
eyeno wrote:
justdrew wrote:FYI - the entire mainstream media newscycle is about 24 hours behind reality on this.


How far are you from Fukushima? Luv ya buddy, stay safe...

.


oh, I'm here in the pacific northwest of the US, just following closely, worried about being on the receiving end of plutonium dust. I've had no chance to look into it since this morning.


Good news. Thought you were in Japan.


I wish :)
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby crikkett » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:17 pm

eyeno wrote:
justdrew wrote:FYI - the entire mainstream media newscycle is about 24 hours behind reality on this.


How far are you from Fukushima? Luv ya buddy, stay safe...

:angelwings: {{{{{{{justdrew}}}}}}} :angelwings:

.

oh, I'm here in the pacific northwest of the US, just following closely, worried about being on the receiving end of plutonium dust. I've had no chance to look into it since this morning.


Good news. Thought you were in Japan.

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:26 pm

:oops: aww thanks :)

I don't know, right now things seem fine, nothing to worry about. we'll see though...

Apparently #4 was shut down for for maintenance, so all the activity from #4 is due to the spent fuel pools. Which were likely over-full.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Plutonia » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:55 pm

2600 2600 Magazine
Off The Hook is live from Japan tonight at 1900 ET. http:/www.2600.com/offthehook or 99.5FM in the NYC metro area.
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
[the British] government always kept a kind of standing army of news writers who without any regard to truth, or to what should be like truth, invented & put into the papers whatever might serve the minister

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:07 pm

Plutonia wrote:
2600 2600 Magazine
Off The Hook is live from Japan tonight at 1900 ET. http:/www.2600.com/offthehook or 99.5FM in the NYC metro area.
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply



Thanks I'm gonna listen

http://wbai.org/index.php?option=com_co ... Itemid=142
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Plutonia » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:30 pm

Y'welcome.

I'm going to check this out too:

vozbot‎ <schock> For rapid info sharing re: #fukushima join irc://freenode/#fukushima (... channel ##fukushima)
freenode Web IRC (qwebirc)‎ - freenode.net

Twitter - 2 hours ago
[the British] government always kept a kind of standing army of news writers who without any regard to truth, or to what should be like truth, invented & put into the papers whatever might serve the minister

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:39 pm

From Stan Goff's blog (comments thread):

#
DeAnander:

[...]

I watch the unfolding disaster in Japan with a kind of dull horror, unable really to grasp the losses involved if the situation deteriorates further. Even the losses incurred thus far are staggering. Almost 200K people evacuated. To be evacuated — kicked out of your home on short notice, taking only what you can carry or cram into the car. Not knowing if — like Chernobyl residents — you will ever be allowed back. Leaving behind so much of the material substrate of your life, your memories — your *home*.

And since everyone is lying — the engineers, the government [why is it everyone involved with nuclear power seems to end up lying like the deluded wife of a violent alcoholic, always promising that he's really reformed this time and he'll be safe in future?] — not knowing how much radiation you and your family have already been exposed to?

How comforting is it to hear that your government will be passing out potassium iodide pills to reduce your risk of thyroid cancer?

And this is the future that the international fraternity of nuke engineers want replicated on a mass scale with a crash building programme — fast-tracked for even *more* secrecy and cover-up and slipshod engineering and cut corners? This is “our only hope” for surviving climate change and peak oil? Doesn’t look like hope to me, looks like desperation: as in the desperate, increasingly bizarre and violent risks taken by an addict in full-on withdrawal.

I wrote passionately several years ago at European Tribune that I felt Big Centralised Nuclear Power was the perfectly wrong solution to peak oil and climate change — that it

* was not even climate-neutral,
* was insanely costly (has any nuke plant ever turned a profit or failed to hit up the taxpayer for enormous cleanup costs after its short useful lifetime?),
* had a short resource future (uranium supplies are also limited, folks),
* encouraged the dangerous resurgence of the Security State, and
* represented the first or second prize in technomanagerial arrogance and hubristic risk-taking with public (indeed, biospheric) health.

I wrote that nuclear plants were not and *could not be* case-hardened enough to withstand the unusual rigours that a destabilised climate would subject them to — that declining snowpack would threaten the river levels needed to cool inland plants, that storms of unprecedented force would threaten the high-tech grids and support systems on which these fragile monsters utterly depend, even that diesel fuel for their backup generators might become difficult to obtain reliably in future. They are not a technology for hard times. They are a luxury toy for a civilisation rolling in wealth, with real estate to burn (literally), with an adolescent appetite for spectacular risk-taking and machismo. They are, in terms of human survival and resilience, a super-expensive frivolity, a Neronic ego-monument as crazy as the last moai or an obscenely overcompensated CEO’s third private jet.

How many of them have to fold up under even moderately severe climate/weather/geo events before we get it? This is Oz technology — terribly clever and impressive, but still just the work of a little cowering primate behind a curtain, pulling levers and praying that the damn thing keeps working ‘cos he has no idea how to fix the mess if it doesn’t.

[There is a terrible irony about our condition. Industrial civilisation has promoted the explosion of human populations (while also promoting an expanded scale of death and suffering along the way); and meanwhile industrial civilisation -- poisonous to the core in all its crude, violent, anti-biotic processes -- is busily undermining the ability of the biosphere to feed us, the hectarage of land we can inhabit, the friendliness and suitability of the planet for our own and other life forms. Each time we poison another few hundred square miles for several tens of thousands of years to come, we are like a family in a small and crowded house chopping yet another square foot or two out of the floor so there is less and less room to stand in. Japan is a small country with a high population density -- can they afford to write off thousands of acres of inhabitable space? Is that a fair price to pay for "cheap" electricity? If told that this would be the price, would the voters and consumers have said "Yes, fine, sign us up?" Are the people now being evacuated from their homes saying to themselves, "Well, it's all right really, I had a decade or two of cheap reliable power and my wide screen TV was really fun to watch, so losing everything and having to start over as a refugee is a fair deal." ???]

Words fail me. Birthright? Mess of pottage? Staten Island, beads? The price exacted for what industrialism “gives” us has been deferred (for some, only for some) but it is coming due with a vengeance. Was it worth it?

Maybe it won’t come to that. Maybe they’ll cool F-1 down with sea water — their last best hope — and all those innocent people will be allowed to return to their homes, facing nothing worse than enormous, ever-escalating costs to replace the power they were obtaining from the old plant. Maybe “only” a few hundred cleanup workers will be irradiated enough to die untimely and unpleasant deaths from cancer. Maybe we will squeak by again, dodging the bullet, skating along until the next near-meltdown and the next coverup and the next evacuation [or failure to evacuate -- having seen what a bloody hash the US govt made of the NOLA storm and flood, do we like the idea of the same gang handling a Chernobyl-class event in the States?]. I hope so, I sincerely hope so. But I wish that “just squeaking by” wasn’t enough to lull everyone back into a happy childlike trust in the benevolent and wise nuclear authorities (and their endless welfare scam).

OK, I’m ranting. But honestly, how many fables and parables and contes have we generated over the centuries about genies out of bottles and false promises of absolute power — and we still don’t get the moral? When we accept the Genie’s offer — the GEnie in this case — we set ourselves on a path that seldom ends well.

I think I need to take a deep breath, get offline, and do something life-affirming :-)

PS why “first or second prize”? because I’m still not sure whether GMO releases will prove to be even more stupidly undermining of civilisational longevity than nuclear power. the jury is out. so far, both technologies have only one guaranteed result: they leave our descendants an impoverished, diminished and shrunken world in which to realise their happiness and their possibilities. we should call them not High Technology, but Selfish Technology. to steal the future from our posterity has to be one of the meanest thefts of all.

13 March 2011, 11:18 pm



#
DeAnander:

Michelle Chen on the connections between US and Japan:

The politically influential U.S. nuclear industry isn’t known for its foresight nor its hindsight, particularly where speculative profits are concerned. But now, a single massive natural calamity has set in motion a man-made disaster with a ripple effect that reaches straight into America’s backyard. On the eve of the crisis in Japan, the federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission blessed the rickety Vermont Yankee power plant with a license renewal, over the opposition of state legislators. The facility was built on the same model as the Fukushima plant, GE Mark 1.

In fact, 23 Fukushima dopplegangers are scattered across the country, and have racked up complaints about design flaws and safety problems dating back to the 1970s.

Nevertheless Energy Secretary Steven Chu has skirted the question of whether it’s time for the U.S. to reassess its interest in expanding nuclear energy production as an “alternative” to fossil fuels. It seems that in both war and peace, amidst mounting evidence of unconscionable risks, the political establishment’s faith in the mythology of nuclear power remains unshakeable.


She refers to nuclear plants as “managed destruction” and I think this is a very powerful phrase, encapsulating the thrill-seeking we were referring to above, the buzz of being (barely) in control of a vast and dangerous force. A healthy version of this thrill might be riding a spirited horse, or sailing a weatherly boat in brisk conditions, the sense of “riding the wind”, of harnessing energies much greater than our own and dancing with them in a kind of harmony and balance, the exhilaration of risk and skill. But this is an extreme, perverse version: the risk and lethal power are grotesque.

Somehow I have to connect this to the extreme varieties of sexual titillation/stimulation that spin off into the grotesque and brutal (even lethal). The rush of erotic intimacy (a kind of risk and dancing with great cosmic powers) perverted into an obsession with control and destruction. It’s as if our naturally erotic (in the broad spiritual sense), thrilling relationship with the physical world — our joy in risk and skill and engagement — has been perverted on all levels to an intensifying addiction-spiral of More, Faster, Bigger, Meaner — a desperate chase by jaded senses for bigger thrills. I am groping for a thread here that connects so much of the mental illness of our culture, the insatiability and the taste for grotesque extrema: the same madness that spawns mutilations and other atrocities in combat, the party atmosphere at a lynching (I count gang rape as a kind of lynching)… a tendency to go OTT and seek intensities of experience (thrill, that is) beyond the reasonable, permissible or even survivable.

Our warrior/patriarch/accumulator culture seems programmed to play Russian Roulette, on every front. Ever-elevating risks giving ever-bigger thrills to ever-crazier dweebs who fantasise that they’re in perfect control, yet get off on the magnitude of the risks involved. “I am become Shiva, Destroyer of Worlds,” said Oppenheimer. I think he was gloating, not reflecting in horror. Power not only corrupts, it renders us insane.

16 March 2011, 3:26 pm


http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index. ... land-line/

I think she's spot-on about a lot of things - not least about that Oppenheimer quote, which always appalled me.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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