Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

[The Bernician]

On reflection, I'm probably not so much taking it further as padding out something to which you'd already alluded. And of course there are also cheap - but no less accurate for that - points one can make about other parallels with religion, such as the rationality-free symbolism (masks, perspex screens, etc.), the unchallenged mantras, and the elevation of the high priests (didn't a certain someone say that if you attack him you attack the science? c.f. papal infallibility). As I say, cheap shots, but I think they work.

[Grizzly]

https://www.tiktok.com/@superchristianz/video/6988984433495903493?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6979794433895204358&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0
"If you try to force something on me, I'm not running anywhere. I'm going to kill you."



This sure doesn't bode well for the future ....
AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19

What if say in 18 to 24 months we lose 96% of Doctor's?

[PufPuf93]

https://www.tiktok.com/@superchristianz/video/6988984433495903493?sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6979794433895204358&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0
"If you try to force something on me, I'm not running anywhere. I'm going to kill you."

Do you support this?

[Grizzly]

Do you support this?

Why do you ask?

[PufPuf93]

Do you support this?

Why do you ask?

Folks at RI often post items for the interest factor that may or may not be their own reality.

So curious as would provide a lens to perceive your posts.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

https://runesoup.com/2021/07/a-world-en ... ven-story/

Excerpts:

...in a recent essay [by Charles Eisenstein] called Fascism and the Antifestival:

Today, the Western world and particularly the United States appears to be in the midst of a classic Girardian sacrificial crisis. Once-reliable social institutions crumble. The public loses trust in its authorities: political, financial, legal, and medical. The new generation is poorer and sicker than the last. Few of any political persuasion believe that society is working or that we are on the right track. Reason, markets, and technology have failed to redeem their utopian promise. The gods have failed us, and we glimpse monsters emerging from their shadows: ecological collapse, nuclear armageddon, the poisoning of our bodies, minds, and world. Simmering differences and rivalries, once subsumed under a general civic consensus, take on a new intensity as each side grows more militant. As confidence wanes in the state’s capacity to hold evil at bay, latent ritualistic instincts come back to life.

Philosopher Rene Girard argued that these ritualistic instincts derive from social upheavals in which runaway cycles of vengeance – the original social disease – were converted into unifying violence against scapegoated victims. Rituals, religions, festivals, and political institutions evolved to prevent similar outbreaks from recurring.

One such ritual pattern that Girard identifies is the “antifestival,” in which “The rites of sacrificial expulsion are not preceded by a period of frenzied anarchy, but by an extreme austerity and an increased rigor in the observance of all interdicts.” In modern times this takes an extended institutional form in totalitarianism. Both Soviet communism and Nazi fascism had a strong puritanical streak, as both were hostile to anything outside their own order. Fascism is essentially an extended antifestival, and it arises, as does the antifestival, in response to looming social breakdown, real or imagined. In many societies, the priestly caste takes every opportunity to impose these rigorous interdicts, taboos, and rituals, which after all increase their own power. The best opportunity is a crisis that can be attributed to people’s sinful ways. A crisis like an earthquake, a flood, or… a plague.

We seem today to be partially emerging from an extended series of antifestivals, otherwise known as “lockdowns.” They have accompanied totalitarian tendencies and a quasi-fascistic hostility to true festivals or indeed to anything resembling public fun. Moreover, many of our public health measures bear a distinct ritualistic cast, and share with both fascism and with numerous archaic antifestivals an obsession with “pollution.”
…
My point is not that Covid is nothing but a religious hysteria. My point is that, whatever else Covid is, it is also a religious hysteria; that this lens greatly illuminates our current condition and quite probably upcoming events. Our social responses to Covid bear so striking a resemblance to ritual practices and ideas (masks, potions, tabooed persons, sanctification, etc.) that we have to ask how much of our public health policy is really scientific, and how much is religion in disguise. It might even lead to a deeper question: how and whether science differs from (other) religions. (Before you start protesting, “Ridiculous. What about objectivity? The Scientific Method? Peer review?” please read this explanation. The idea cannot be dismissed on trivial grounds.)

I hesitate to call anything “just a ritual,” a dismissal that ignores the mysterious relationship between ritual and reality; however, the dubious efficacy of many of our public health practices invites the judgment that they are, indeed, “just rituals.” I will not attempt here to make a case that masks, lockdowns, distancing, and so forth are dubious. Ultimately the argument comes down to whether our systems of knowledge production (science and journalism) are sound, and whether our medical and political authorities are trustworthy. To doubt public health orthodoxy is to answer no, they are not sound, they are not trustworthy. However, anyone who tries to make this case must, by necessity, source evidence from outside official institutions – evidence which, for the true believers, is illegitimate by definition.

One is unlikely to prove the priests wrong using information sanctioned by the priests. If you try, you are exposed as a heretic.

https://charleseisenstein.org/essays/gi ... ifestival/

We are there now. “One is unlikely to prove the priests wrong using information sanctioned by the priests. If you try, you are exposed as a heretic.” This is what I mean when, for the last year or so, I’ve been saying there are no interventions left on any side that can make things better, only worse. The system cannot update itself with better information.

...

The systemic failure of explanationism is not met with an updating but a doubling down on the failed approach in the face of new data. And if you think I’m just referring to the ‘no masks, one mask, two masks, no mask, one mask’ shuffle in the US, try some Australian news, where the various health ‘experts’ at state level have suggested such things as ducking to avoid a football if it’s kicked into the crowd because you shouldn’t touch it in case someone from Melbourne has touched it, or that neighbours shouldn’t speak to each other, or that we’ll keep using PCR tests down here because they prove we have had no flu for the last year and a half, only Covid-19.

This is how you lose the mandate of heaven by definition. By doubling down on officially describing rather than meaning-making, and doing so with a framework that is less and less able to convey reality. And that doesn’t end well for the experts.

...

I said from the very beginning that if you think the official reality version of events is what’s happening, then you don’t think magic is real. These are not the actions that presage the arrival of some glorious, utopia. Your submission to authoritarianism will not get you back to brunch faster. These are the desperate, dying moves of a capitalist-materialist framework that has lost the mandate of heaven. But you need to Flatland up a dimension or two to see it, to see materialist-reductionism from above.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

I went out last night, and I talked to the natives. I am sad to report that the propaganda is working.

COVID-19 cases are on the rise in San Francisco, and people are now frightened that their small summer respite from lockdowns will soon evaporate and that the warden will once again place them in solitary confinement.

...

So if first you don't succeed, mask and jab some more. And hold everybody else down for a a double jab while you are at it since obviously the more the merrier regardless of previous vaccination status or COVID-19 exposure.

Normally, I can at least talk honestly about this with my friends. Last night was the first night I felt like a Jew at a Nazi party.

Tragic. In less than 2 yrs, this is where we are.

Yes, cases are up markedly in San Fran, where ~80% of the population is vaccinated.

Death counts remain flat to this point, however -- a key stat often, if not always, left out of news reporting over the last few weeks.

So what's the cause of the rise (per local news media)? The unvaccinated and 'delta', of course.

The larger issue is these shots were sold to the public as a 'cure'.

They never were going to be a 'cure'.

They also sold it as a means to 'get back to normal'. This is also wrong for several reasons, but in large part also because so many have been thoroughly brainwashed/conditioned to accept nothing but a 'zero covid' result --- for a god damn virus with over a 99.8% survival rate -- and Zero Covid will NEVER happen, regardless of any mitigation.

The stupidity/pervasiveness of these diseased mindsets is beyond any satire that could have been imagined prior to 2020. There is no easy way back now.

San Francisco pushes vaccines as infections see 10-fold increase amid Delta variant surge


Public health data shows a rapid rise in COVID-cases to 176 per day in the county compared to just 12 in early June. But even the current rate is less than half of the peak back in January.

Despite 77% of the city’s population considered fully vaccinated, the unvaccinated and highly contagious Delta Variant are being blamed on this fourth major surge.

"Vaccines remain our ticket out of this pandemic and they continue to work extremely well," San Francisco Health Director Dr. Grant Colfax said. "If you’re not vaccinated right now, this is not a good time to be in that situation."

The city is making a forceful push to encourage the unvaccinated to get shots immediately.

Colfax said up to 95% of COVID-related hospitalizations are preventable. There have been no deaths from the virus among the fully vaccinated.

Still, breakthrough cases are occurring. Dozens of medical workers are out sick at hospitals like San Francisco General after contracting COVID-19, causing a strain on the entire system.

Infections among vaccinated healthcare workers are occurring at places outside of medical facilities, Colfax said.

"We’re monitoring the situation carefully," he said. "They’re unlikely to experience serious disease but it reinforces the importance of vaccines to protect our healthcare system and our healthcare workers."

As a result, a countywide or potentially Bay Area wide indoor mask mandate is being considered. A decision is expected next week.

https://www.ktvu.com/news/san-francisco ... ssion=true

[Belligerent Savant]

Replying to
@HenryMrwfriot
and
@justin_hart

The point is that when you look at these numbers pre Covid they are about the same. So, are you advocating permanent lockdown to try to stop something happening that happens every year in every country? If it wasn’t Covid, it would have been something else.

https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/ ... 82496?s=20

[stickdog99]

.

I went out last night, and I talked to the natives. I am sad to report that the propaganda is working.

COVID-19 cases are on the rise in San Francisco, and people are now frightened that their small summer respite from lockdowns will soon evaporate and that the warden will once again place them in solitary confinement.

...

So if first you don't succeed, mask and jab some more. And hold everybody else down for a a double jab while you are at it since obviously the more the merrier regardless of previous vaccination status or COVID-19 exposure.

Normally, I can at least talk honestly about this with my friends. Last night was the first night I felt like a Jew at a Nazi party.

Tragic. In less than 2 yrs, this is where we are.

Yes, cases are up markedly in San Fran, where ~80% of the population is vaccinated.

Death counts remain flat to this point, however -- a key stat often, if not always, left out of news reporting over the last few weeks.

So what's the cause of the rise (per local news media)? The unvaccinated and 'delta', of course.

The larger issue is these shots were sold to the public as a 'cure'.

They never were going to be a 'cure'.

They also sold it as a means to 'get back to normal'. This is also wrong for several reasons, but in large part also because so many have been thoroughly brainwashed/conditioned to accept nothing but a 'zero covid' result --- for a god damn virus with over a 99.8% survival rate -- and Zero Covid will NEVER happen, regardless of any mitigation.

The stupidity/pervasiveness of these diseased mindsets is beyond any satire that could have been imagined prior to 2020. There is no easy way back now.

San Francisco pushes vaccines as infections see 10-fold increase amid Delta variant surge


Public health data shows a rapid rise in COVID-cases to 176 per day in the county compared to just 12 in early June. But even the current rate is less than half of the peak back in January.

Despite 77% of the city’s population considered fully vaccinated, the unvaccinated and highly contagious Delta Variant are being blamed on this fourth major surge.

"Vaccines remain our ticket out of this pandemic and they continue to work extremely well," San Francisco Health Director Dr. Grant Colfax said. "If you’re not vaccinated right now, this is not a good time to be in that situation."

The city is making a forceful push to encourage the unvaccinated to get shots immediately.

Colfax said up to 95% of COVID-related hospitalizations are preventable. There have been no deaths from the virus among the fully vaccinated.

What this unsourced statistic does not mention is that there were just 5 total COVID-19 associated deaths in May, 5 total COVID-19 associated deaths in June, and 5 total COVID-19 associated deaths in July in all of San Francisco.

Still, breakthrough cases are occurring. Dozens of medical workers are out sick at hospitals like San Francisco General after contracting COVID-19, causing a strain on the entire system.

Infections among vaccinated healthcare workers are occurring at places outside of medical facilities, Colfax said.

"We’re monitoring the situation carefully," he said. "They’re unlikely to experience serious disease but it reinforces the importance of vaccines to protect our healthcare system and our healthcare workers."

So the fact that these experimental vaccines don't work, of course, only reinforces their importance.

[drstrangelove]

On reflection, I'm probably not so much taking it further as padding out something to which you'd already alluded. And of course there are also cheap - but no less accurate for that - points one can make about other parallels with religion, such as the rationality-free symbolism (masks, perspex screens, etc.), the unchallenged mantras, and the elevation of the high priests (didn't a certain someone say that if you attack him you attack the science? c.f. papal infallibility). As I say, cheap shots, but I think they work.

its history repeating itself. and just like the church, these secular institutions will fail because people can always and will always, opt out. grassroots culture will circumvent by going underground. humanity will persist for as long as it takes for the 'new normal' to eat itself up from the inside. this is why they want CBDC(digital central bank currency). so they can monitor black market commerce and prevent people the ability to opt out. it's all good though. as people can just go back to direct exchange of goods if they must.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Surprisingly, a modicum of common sense in a mainstream paper.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... hesitancy/

Vaccine mandates will backfire. People will resist even more.

Persuading, not dictating, is how Biden can avoid a crisis of legitimacy.

In recent weeks, calls for vaccine mandates have increasingly been heard: In a column headlined “Stop pleading with anti-vaxxers and start mandating vaccinations,” The Washington Post’s Max Boot implored President Biden to “stop making reasonable appeals to those who will not listen to reason.” Former Health and Human Services secretary Kathleen Sebelius lamented that “we’re going to tiptoe around mandates,” and she’s “kind of over that.” A coalition of medical professional organizations, including the American Medical Association, has asked for “all health care and long-term care employers to require their employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19.”

Meanwhile, there’s a top-down push to get reluctant citizens vaccinated: The White House and the Department of Education partnered with colleges and universities on a “Covid-19 College Vaccine Challenge.” On Monday, the Department of Veterans Affairs became the first federal agency to mandate vaccinations for more than 100,000 of its employees. On Thursday, Biden announced that civilian federal workers must be vaccinated or submit to regular coronavirus testing.

But if this rhetoric and these efforts lead to a de facto national vaccine mandate, it will backfire: Americans from all walks of life resist being told what to put into their bodies, and many will resent any politician or institution that makes them get vaccinated, creating a crisis of legitimacy for any government, university or business that forces constituents, students or employees to get vaccinated. Indeed, the president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association has already said, “There will be a lot of pushback” from members of his organization against the federal employee mandate.

There’s been a lot of hand-wringing about partisan vaccine resistance — according to a recent Economist/YouGov poll, 29 percent of Republicans say they won’t get vaccinated, compared to 4 percent of Democrats — but that doesn’t tell the whole story. In mid-June, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, when parents of children ages 12 and older (the youngest group authorized for vaccination) were asked by Kaiser Family if they would get their children vaccinated, 18 percent said they would wait and see, 10 percent said they would if required and 25 percent said “definitely not.” As FiveThirtyEight’s Geoffrey Skelley explains, “Unvaccinated Americans tend to be younger” and “more likely to be a person of color. The situation we’re in is not just because of politics but also because of access to the vaccine and broader skepticism of the health care system.”

I got a breakthrough covid infection. The worst part is the conflicting advice.

As Maya Goldenberg, author of “Vaccine Hesitancy: Public Trust, Expertise, and the War on Science” argues in a recent blog post, many of the vaccine-hesitant are well-educated, work in the health-care industry and have questions about how effective the vaccines are at stopping transmission, whether they’re safe to take during pregnancy or if they impact fertility.

On Thursday, The Post reported on an internal document at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that cited concerns about the effectiveness of vaccines in preventing the contraction of the delta variant of the coronavirus. On Friday, The Post reported on an analysis of CDC data from Massachusetts finding “that three-quarters of the people who became infected were fully vaccinated.”

Not only won’t mandates resolve many citizens’ concerns on these issues, they could lead many to feel that their concerns are being overlooked.

Furthermore, researchers have found that in some cases, vaccine resistance can be an expression of what the New York Times described as an ingrained “moral preference for liberty and individual rights.” Take NFL player Cole Beasley, who defiantly tweeted:

https://twitter.com/Bease11/status/1405 ... 39172?s=20

And the more that government flexes its political muscles to urge or enforce vaccine compliance, the greater incentive there is for populist politicians to push back, reinforcing the idea that the fight over vaccines is a fight about individual liberty: Earlier this month, not long after Biden floated the idea of a door-to-door vaccination outreach effort, Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.) rallied the crowd at the Conservative Political Action Conference, saying: “Don’t come knocking on my door with your ‘Fauci ouchie.’ You leave us the hell alone” — referencing Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who has become, since last year, the public face of the nation’s vaccine response.

The debate is also about how much faith individual Americans have in the information they’re given. When Pfizer’s CEO announces that its coronavirus vaccine is 96 percent effective up to two months after a second dose, but only 84 percent effective four to six months after the second dose — on the heels of suggesting that a third “booster” shot may be needed — that raises alarm bells among skeptics. When the CDC goes back and forth on its mask-wearing guidance — loosening recommendations in May and tightening them again now — it invites the charge that public health officials are winging it, rather than making evidence-based calculations.

At a minimum, public health officials have to better educate the public about why the available vaccines are still being distributed with only an emergency-use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration, not full FDA approval. For a public accustomed to drug approval taking years, not months, the Trump administration’s fast-tracking of coronavirus vaccines, hailed by many — including (at least initially) former president Donald Trump — can raise suspicion among others.

Studies have found that mandates can provoke anger rather than encourage resisters to get vaccinated. The implementation of European-style incentives that make life more convenient for the vaccinated and less convenient for the unvaccinated could risk fostering greater resistance.

In December, Biden said he wouldn’t mandate vaccines but that he would “encourage people to do the right thing.” His position reflected an understanding of the nation he was preparing to lead: That persuading Americans — not dictating to them on how to respond to covid-19 — was both more politically tenable and would better serve his aim of bringing the pandemic under control. In June, Politico reported that the administration succeeded in increasing the vaccination rate for Hispanic Americans by relying on making vaccinations available through federally-backed community health centers. In April, Time magazine reported that the administration planned efforts to involve faith-based organizations and “organizations with ties to rural communities” in its vaccine outreach. That type of approach, with better messaging and less coercion, ought to be sustained and prioritized rather than slowly driving toward mandates.

The administration should go as far in the opposite direction as it can from those who deride vaccine skeptics, such as USA Today columnist Tom Nichols, who referred to vaccine resisters as “cynical and obstinate children” who should be shunned until they “grow up.”

Biden’s words have been measured and conciliatory, but his policies have steadily crept in the direction of the crowd that shows intolerance toward legitimate vaccine concerns.

A democracy must use democratic means — acknowledging unknowns, continuing outreach and avoiding stigmatization — even to combat something as serious and urgent as a pandemic. Making people get vaccinated, by contrast, will likely increase mistrust. Instead of “normalizing” the jab, it risks creating a permanent and hardened segment of our society, primed to oppose government efforts to deal with covid or other public health crises on the horizon.

Once the FDA approves these fucking shots in September things will tighten up right quick. All you closet fascists can relax. It'll get done, one way or another, your dystopic fevered dreams.

But there will remain a subset that will simply refuse. They'll "prefer not to", as previously alluded. Off to communes and Amish-like accommodations. I've no doubt it'll be a more robust life overall than what's in store for the rest.

[Grizzly]

Anagram



[/url]

Potentially a turning point for logic and reason here


Pray hard, Christians!

[Grizzly]

Serious TRIGGER WARNING

Berlin, this cop is hitting a little boy in the head for worrying about his mom
https://twitter.com/FiveTimesAugust/status/1421989627183910912



Do you Nazi a problem?

[PufPuf93]

Anagram



[/url]

Potentially a turning point for logic and reason here


Pray hard, Christians!

Is this your answer to my question?

Really ugly stuff Grizzly.

I posted this in the other thread.


An Evangelical Christian Perspective on January 6

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. Matthew 5:9, NRSV

One of the doctrinal tenets that Evangelical Christians hold in common is the belief that the Bible is a divinely inspired, written revelation of God to humanity. One of the best expressions of Evangelical belief regarding the sixty-six books of the Bible is found in the Baptist Faith and Message 2000:

The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of the Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is himself the focus of divine revelation.

You would not find much deviation among other conservative Evangelicals when it comes to this definition. You may find the terms "verbal, plenary inspiration" used in some statements, which means they are declaring their belief that the very words of scripture were inspired, and that the whole of scripture in the accepted canon, the sixty-six books of the Bible used by most Protestant Christians without the apocrypha,is inspired. For the sake of this discussion, this specific doctrinal statement will serve as a reference point.

The Trump Insurrection of January 6, 2021

Many of those who participated in the mob that attacked the Capitol on January 6 self-identified as Christians. Some carried banners or wore t-shirts or clothing indicating their beliefs. Many of Trump's core base of supporters are white, conservative Evangelical Christians along with several individuals considered to be leaders within various segments of the movement, though none of those individuals were present in Washington on January 6.

There is plenty of evidence to indicate that those who self-identified by using Christian symbols, banners and clothing participated in the violence against the police protecting the Capitol building. It's visible in most of the video footage shot outside and inside the Capitol. If you believe the Bible is "the supreme standard by which all human conduct should be tried" then where do you find support in scripture for such behavior? Where does the Bible provide justification for someone committing violence, attacking the civil government and those who are protecting it? Where is the Biblical justification of the cause of the violence that day?

There is no Biblical justification for any follower of Christ to participate in the kind of mob violence that was taking place on January 6th.

I am seeing, in some Evangelical contexts, attempts to re-interpret or re-apply specific scripture passages and turn them away from their intended context in order to serve as justification for those who participated in the January 6 Trump Insurrection. Doing so requires taking the passage out of its context without any evidence or justification to do so, something that many Evangelicals are prone to do if it helps make a point. That approach shows a bit of contempt for the intelligence of those to whom they are speaking. I've always been taught that interpreting the scripture requires discerning the intention of the original author by interpreting the words in their original language, understanding the context of the situation in which the words were being delivered and figuring out how to apply the content in the context of the church and the culture in which we now live. But a lot of the preaching and teaching I hear these days from many politically engaged Evangelical preachers goes backwards, attempting to take political themes and "worldviews" and find scripture to fit them. Proof-texting like that doesn't work with what two of the church's major apostles had to say on this issue.

Both Paul, in Romans 13:1-7 and Peter, in 1 Peter 2:13-17 make strong statements about the position of Christians in relation to the civil government and neither of those statements advocates insurrection against it, even though it was pagan and evil and would eventually persecute the church and make martyrs out of many of its leaders. The testimony of Christians who suffered through persecution was one of the main reasons why so many people turned to Christ during this period of time. And it was protecting that testimony that prompted the inspired words of these two Apostles.

For it is God's will that by doing right you should silence the ignorance of the foolish. I Peter 2:15

The issue for Peter here is character. It would be inconsistent to be seen as an insurrectionist, a rebel against the authorities, and at the same time be an example of Christian character. Christians were often maligned because of what they believed, but Peter encourages and instructs them to live the kind of life that sets an example of righteousness which makes it hard to prove accusations of wrongdoing.

Conduct yourselves honorably among the Gentiles so that, though they malign you as evildoers, they may see your honorable deeds and glorify God when he comes to judge. I Peter 2:12, NRSV

The words of Paul in Romans chapter 13 are set in a similar context. Paul is writing to Christians in Rome about the importance of character in the witness of their testimony to their faith in Christ. He wanted them to stand out as a group against the pagan culture in which they lived, not in an arrogant way, but to show the kind of life that faith in Christ produced in individual character as well as how a community of fellow believers behaved. They were not people who, because of their religious practices, should be feared by their neighbors, but welcomed by them because their presence was a blessing to the community.

If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Romans 12:18.

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:21

Paul certainly knew that it was not easy to live the kind of life expected of believers in Christ in the middle of the pagan Roman society. Many of those to whom he was writing in the church at Rome were not just converted Jews, but were from among the local population which was a diverse mix of people from just about everywhere, including those who had been born and raised in Rome. Christians needed to be trusted by those around them, not seen as insurrectionists and subversives. Romans 12, preceding what Paul wrote about the civil authorities, is a whole description of the marks of a Christian.

The Romans saw Christians as a subversive sect because their declaration that "Jesus is Lord" was in opposition to their belief that the emperor was a god. It was a conflation of religious belief and political principle. By living this kind of lifestyle, Christians demonstrated a behavior that countered the claims of subversion while standing firm in their faith. They were not rebels advocating for political change, their message was redemptive and spiritual. It didn't stop the persecution by the emperors, but it did show their testimony and message of redemption to the pagan culture around them.

That's what the two most prominent Apostles in the early Christian church believed and wrote, according to Evangelicals, by the complete inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The interpretation has not changed since those apostles wrote those words. Among Evangelical Christians, a branch of Protestant Christianity not gathered into a single church or denomination but made up of a cluster of denominations, fellowships, mission-support groups and thousands of non-denominational, independent churches, the local church is the most visible expression of the Christian gospel. So the church must be seen as a church, an "ecclesia," a spiritual body centered on Christ as the resolution of humanity's sin. It has been subverted if it is seen as a radical, revolutionary agent for political change. And the conversion it seeks is spiritual transformation, not political revolution.

The church is instructed to avoid divisive, controversial issues that don't pertain directly to the practice of the faith. "You are the salt of the earth; You are the light of the world", quotes from Jesus in the gospel of Matthew 5:13, 14 states that the church's purpose is to give glory to God through its visible good works. He compares the church losing the essence of its testimony and message to salt losing its taste. It becomes good for nothing, gets thrown out and trampled on.

America does not have a state church or a state endorsed religious belief. That's at the very core of the Constitution's principle of religious freedom. The church can have an influence on government through its visible good works and even through the involvement of its members. There's nothing wrong with that. But there can't be an expectation that the government, influenced by the church, will advance its mission and purpose. The gospel must be accepted individually, by conviction of the Holy Spirit. Righteousness cannot be legislated. It must be lived out of conviction and gratitude.

The images of individuals in Jesus T-shirts, carrying banners with crosses and displaying "Jesus saves" signs, attacking police, breaking out windows, busting down doors and invading the Capitol are not evidence of the church's "visible good works." The entire event was correctly labelled as an insurrection, a violent assault on the government of the United States, a rebellion with the intent to disrupt a constitutional duty, do harm to members of Congress who were carrying it out, a criminal act for which those who have been identified as participants up to this point have been charged. Christians who were there cannot distance themselves from the activities taking place that were a total violation of the scripture they claim is inerrant and infallible, and the antithesis of the expectations of God for his people through the words of the Apostles. It's clear they weren't "tourists" or passive observers. Video evidence shows most of them engaging as violently as any in the mob. And that kind of behavior is, according to scripture accepted by Evangelicals as inerrant and infallible, antithetical to followers of Jesus.

There is the additional problem of the fact that the whole seditious insurrection was based on a lie. By January 6, it was pretty clear that the election results were legitimate, there was no evidence of fraud and no indication at all that the election had been stolen.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Exodus 20:9, ESV

It is your responsibility to make sure that the words you speak are truthful, not your preferred media source's responsibility. Claiming that there was "massive voter fraud" and that the election had been "stolen" from Donald Trump is a lie. There is not a scrap of evidence--a ballot, a counting machine, an election observer who was a Trump supporter--proving that there was any fraud in the election. Believing and repeating a lie just makes you a liar. So the Christian response, in consideration of the inerrant, infallible scripture, would be silence if you choose to continue to believe what is not true, and taking responsibility to set the record straight with the facts if you paid attention to the Apostles' teaching on the subject.

Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that shall he also reap. Galatians 6:7 ESV

Grace and Truth to You

In a general Evangelical Christian "worldview," the primary problem of humanity is sin against God. The ultimate resolution of all of the problems of humanity is redemption from that sin through Christ. The confession list for those Christians who exposed the identify of their faith and then waded in to support an insurrection, including violence that led to the death of five people, and the venting of hatred and evil based on a lie, is going to be a long one.

Whoever says, "I know Him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. I John 2:4 ESV

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9, ESV

During one of the greatest persecutions ever brought against the church, which began just about the time Peter and Paul were writing those words we looked at previously, going on for more than 200 years under the successive rule of some of the most cruel, evil men ever to serve in ancient world government, the church never participated in an insurrection aimed at overthrowing the government or a rebellion aimed at fighting against it. It continued to pursue its mission and purpose, living righteously in the middle of a pagan culture. It was a position that caused people to take notice of them, putting them in a position to hear their testimony and come to redemption through the gospel of Christ. Instead of being wiped out by persecution, the church experienced revival, in terms of impact on the world, greater than any that has happened since. It succeeded in bringing about a change in the government, conquering by transformational and spiritual change, not by violence.

So put down your sword. You're not going to bring revival to the United States, or fulfill the purpose of the church to glorify God by overthrowing the government. It's not going to come about by making deals with a President who celebrates his immorality, uses it to enhance his personal fame and uses the benefit he gets from your support to do more of it. And no matter how you have personally evaluated the "worldview" of the other side, they're not stopping you from carrying out the mission and purpose of the church, which is glorifying God and testifying to his grace and truth through the redemptive message of the Gospel of Jesus.

Get away from the politics that makes you blame the other side, and stop using them as an excuse for why you're not doing what the scripture says you should be doing, and you might actually see a revival.

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2021/0 ... ve-on.html

[Elvis]

go back to direct exchange of goods if they must.