How to Overthrow the Illuminati

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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:27 pm

minime » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:22 am wrote:You get repossessed.

Old Illuminati joke.


:P
should have seen that coming
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:34 pm

http://www.researchforprogress.us/rwpop/masons.html


The Illuminati / Freemason Conspiracy Theory

The Freemasons began as members of craft guilds who united into lodges in England in the early 1700's. They stressed religious tolerance, the equality of their male peers, and the themes of classic liberalism and the Enlightenment. Today they are a worldwide fraternal order that still educates its members about philosophical ideas, and engages in harmless rituals, but also offers networking for business and political leaders, and carries out charitable activities.

The idea of a widespread freemason conspiracy originated in the late 1700's and flourished in the US in the 1800's. Persons who embrace this theory often point to purported Masonic symbols such as the pyramid and the eye on the back of the dollar bill as evidence of the conspiracy. Allegations of a freemason conspiracy trace back to British author John Robison who wrote the 1798 book Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All the Religions and Governments of Europe, carried on in the secret meetings of Free Masons, Illuminati, and Reading Societies, collected from good authorities. Robison influenced French author Abbé Augustin Barruel, whose first two volumes of his eventual four volume study, Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism, beat Robison's book to the printer. Both Robison and Barruel discuss the attempt by Bavarian intellectual Adam Weishaupt to spread the ideas of the Enlightenment through his secretive society, the Order of the Illuminati.

Weishaupt was appointed a professor at the University of Ingolstadt in Germany around 1772 and elevated to the post of professor of Canon Law in 1773 or 1775 (sources conflict), the first secularist to hold that position previously held by clergy. Weishaupt began planning a group to challenge authoritarian Catholic actions in 1775, the group (under a different name) was announced on May 1, 1776. This group evolved into the Illuminati. The Enlightenment rationalist ideas of the Illuminati were, in fact, brought into Masonic lodges where they played a role in a factional fight against occultist philosophy. The Illuminati was suppressed in a series of edicts between 1784 and 1787, and Weishaupt himself was banished in 1785.

Weishaupt, his Illuminati society, the Freemasons, and other secret societies are portrayed by Robison and Barruel as bent on despotic world domination through a secret conspiracy using front groups to spread their influence.

Barruel claimed the conspirators "had sworn hatred to the altar and the throne, had sworn to crush the God of the Christians, and utterly to extirpate the Kings of the Earth." For Barruel the grand plot hinges on how Illuminati "adepts of revolutionary Equality and Liberty had buried themselves in the Lodges of Masonry" where they caused the French revolution, and then ordered "all the adepts in their public prints to cry up the revolution and its principles." Soon, every nation had its "apostle of Equality, Liberty, and Sovereignty of the People."

Robison, a professor of Natural Philosophy at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland, argued that the Illuminati evolved out of Freemasony, and called the Illuminati philosophy "Cosmo-politism." According to Robison:

Their first and immediate aim is to get the possession of riches, power, and influence, without industry; and, to accomplish this, they want to abolish Christianity; and then dissolute manners and universal profligacy will procure them the adherents of all the wicked, and enable them to overturn all the civil governments of Europe; after which they will think of farther conquests, and extend their operations to the other quarters of the globe, till they have reduced mankind to the state of one indistinguishable chaotic mass.


Robert Alan Goldberg, in his book Enemies Within, summarizes the basic themes of the books by Barruel and Robison:

Writing in the aftermath of the French Revolution, these monarchists had created a counterhistory in defense of the aristocracy. Winning the hearts and minds of present and future readers would assuage some of the pain of recent defeat and mobilize defenses. The Revolution, they argued, was not rooted in poverty and despotism. Rather than a rising of the masses, it was the work of Adam Weishaupt’s Illuminati, a secret society that plotted to destroy all civil and religious authority and abolish marriage, the family, and private property. It was the Illuminati who schemed to turn contented peasants 'from Religion to Atheism, from decency to dissoluteness, from loyalty to rebellion.'


The major immediate political effect of allegations of an Illuminati Freemason conspiracy in Europe was to mobilize support for national oligarchies traditionally supported by the Catholic Church hierarchy. Across Europe authoritarian governing elites were coming under attack by reformist and revolutionary movements demanding increased political rights under secular laws. The ideas of the Enlightenment were incorporated by the leaders of both the French and American revolutions, and in a sense, these Enlightenment notions were indeed subversive to the established social order, although they were hardly a secret conspiracy. The special status of the Catholic Church in European nation-states was actually threatened by the ideas being discussed by the Illuminati and the rationalist wing of the Freemasons.

Several common conspiracist themes emerge from these two books. The Enlightenment themes of equality and liberty are designed to destroy respect for property and the natural social hierarchy. Orthodox Christianity is to be destroyed and replaced with universalism, deism...or worse. Persons with a cosmopolitan outlook--encouraging free-thinking and international cooperation--are to be suspect as disloyal subversive traitors out to undermine national sovereignty and promote anarchy.

Shortly after the Barruel book was published, conspiracy theories about the Illuminati Freemasons were mixed with antisemitism in Europe. This confluence took place much later in the US.


Adapted from Berlet & Lyons, Right-Wing Populism in America: Too Close for Comfort.

Bibliography

Abbé Augustin Barruel, Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism, second edition revised and corrected, English translation by Robert Clifford, (originally published 1797-1798, reprinted in one volume, Fraser, MI: Real-View-Books, 1995).

John Robison, Proofs of a Conspiracy—against All the Religions and Governments of Europe, carried on in the secret meetings of Freemasons, Illuminati and Reading Societies, fourth edition with postscript, (originally published 1798, reprinted Boston: Western Islands, 1967)

Richard Hofstadter, “The Paranoid Style in American Politics,” in The Paranoid Style in American Politics and Other Essays (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1965).

Norman Cohn, Warrant for Genocide: The Myth of the Jewish World Conspiracy and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, (London: Serif, 1967 [1996].

George Johnson, Architects of Fear: Conspiracy Theories and Paranoia in American Politics, (Los Angeles: Tarcher/Houghton Mifflin, 1983).

Chip Berlet and Matthew N. Lyons, Right-Wing Populism in America: Too Close for Comfort, (New York: Guilford Publications, 2000)

Robert Alan Goldberg, Enemies Within: The Culture of Conspiracy in Modern America, (New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 2001).

Herm. Gruber, "Illuminati," The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VII, (New York, NY: Robert Appleton Company, 1910).
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:37 pm

Excerpted from: http://soupyone.wordpress.com/2012/02/0 ... telegraph/

The “Illuminati Factor”, Racism And The Palestine Telegraph
06/02/2012 ~ soupyone

[Apologies, by necessity this post has links to racist web sites, as a public record. Sorry.]

The Palestine Telegraph is fairly popular amongst Western supporters of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, even the odd liberal Peeress read it.

That’s not too surprising, as its published in the West and has very little connection to the daily lives of people in the Middle East, rather it is a vehicle for racism against Jews.

Its pages are filled with salacious stories, plain lies and tales of “Jewish conspiracies”.

Any literate person, without a racist inclination, would see the mixture of scurrilous rumours printed as facts and conspiracy theories for what they really are, a cover for racism.

Nevertheless, as my recent exchange with a PSC supporter showed some fairly intelligent people seem to like it.

So for the sake of the public record and before it vanishes, here is one of the Palestine Telegraph’s pieces from 2010 in full. Let us hope that the penny drops with a few PSC supporters before it is too late:

Whose world are we really living in?
Sunday, 14 February 2010 06:29
Hits: 426



World, February 14, 2010 (Pal Telegraph) – Our eyes it is said are the windows to our souls and in turn the gateway to our hearts and minds, determining what we see and feel, giving us a Conscience, which helps us to judge right from wrong, good from evil.

But just how many of us exercise this Human Sense, how many of us actually “see” and absorb what is real and what is unreal. Following from this, we must then have to ask a pertinent question- what is “reality”? Whose realities are we all living in and is it one that we, as moral members of the Human Race have willingly chosen to follow?

There are sadly far too many sleeping Consciences belonging to the thousands (if not millions) of people who choose to be Sheeple, as David Icke refers to them, totally oblivious of the “real world,” living in their own makeshift cocoon, their very own Matrix world, and unaware of the suffering and oppression that is being played out in those countries/States so far away from their shores. They perpetuate the sayings “not in my backyard”, “nothing to do with me”, “I am not interested and don’t want to get involved in politics or affairs that do not directly affect myself, my family or my way of life or my financial status!!

Is this acceptable in the 21st Century, which supposedly, has advanced mankind’s knowledge and understanding and tolerance of the Human Family.

How many of these self-centred righteous “me, me, me people” actually know or understand?? Do they not want to know that what affects their foreign neighbours will affect them sooner if not later, that time has a way to catch up, to do to them what they have done to others?

In the last century, we had quite a few devastating and hideous Wars that sacrificed the lives of millions upon millions of innocent people, but how many of the world’s community today understands the real reasons for these past atrocities- what on earth were they all for??

Both World Wars 1 and 2 affected not only the parties involved but had widespread repercussions that through time, brought unwelcome changes to some, and this in turn has caught up with us, avenging some of us savagely. In politics Time alas does not heal old wounds but festers and grows inside some of us, ticking away like a time bomb!!

At school, we all accepted the version of history that we were spoon-fed by the “Establishment”; after all, they knew better than us; they were our “experts, our intelligent academia”. They knew what they thought we needed to know!! But as events have slowly unfolded, some of us, “enlightened” ones, the Light workers, who are inquisitive, like exercising our minds independently and preferring to ask endless questions, do our own research, have found to our dismay that our “History” was and is a myth, a lie, full of deceit, and deliberate propaganda in order to sway our outlook and understanding and perceptions, enhancing and facilitating the agenda of a small group of Elite people in charge of “mind controlling” us!!

It turns out that WW1 and WW2 were planned in advance for the sake of a group following the dictates of Zionism, a non religious socio-political Ideology which puts their leaders at the top of a Pyramid, while the rest of mankind, their “servants” are piled in a heap right at the bottom, unaware of what is being instigated at the pinnacle of this structured pyramid!! It is not too dissimilar to a Social Class Ladder: the working class, that is the masses or, I prefer to use a stronger and more apt term, the Servants/Slaves; then we have the Middle class, the middle men who in turn receive their delegated orders from the higher echelons of society, their MASTERS, the Elite, Aristocracy, the “Illuminati Factor” in fact, the billionaires in Power, who are covertly controlling our world and our communities and lives, choosing methods that are abhorrent to a fair, just ethical moral Society.

These Masters, controlled by such luminaries as the Rothschild Dynasty, have been working in the wings establishing their Corporate Financial and Imperialist ,Colonialist Empire, getting richer by the day, their power increasing by the hour, while their servants, their minions, their puppets do all the hard work, shed blood sweat and tears, and physical and mental sacrifice.

“When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing more to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader….This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.” (- Plato )

Along with the increase of their personal wealth and power, their abuse and oppression has also been scaringly increasing at an abnormally fast and alarming rate, a level which has cost the lives of so many millions of innocent people, but then servants/slaves have always been expendable for these Imperial Tyrants who actually thrive on the death and destruction of the unsuspecting Masses under their thumb. We are the unwilling subjects for their sacrificial demonic pyre that is taking our lives to the depths of hell!!

What are we faced with now in the 21st Century?? Have our lives and peace of mind been placated?? Have we learnt from the past mistakes of Man’s History? Is our history inter-linked to our present and the possible outcome of our future??

The first few years of the new century has experienced far too much bloodshed. In the last years of the last century, we faced the Bosnian war and the first Gulf War in Iraq, killing thousands of innocent Iraqis, who then had to face the Sanctions, imposed by the bully and controller of the UNITED NATIONS, the Zionist controlled USA and its partner in crime Britain, whose past colonial practices are accountable for much of what has transpired in the hot bed of bloodshed in the Middle East, against the majority Muslim Arabs, the new CRUSADE of the 21st Century for our new Imperial Neo-Con Tyrants of the Illuminati/Skull/Bones/ Zionist variety. These inhuman sanctions, which the majority of the members of the U.N are shamefully guilty of and a party to, sentenced to death over one million Iraqis, 500,000 of whom were children (children whose death Madeleine Albright cruelly and insensitively proclaimed ” the price was worth it”) and also the Unborn who were deprived of their quality of life due to regular bombardment of Depleted Uranium, causing untold suffering and illnesses, some of which were carcinogenic, producing deformed offspring, tumours etc, even among the cannon fodder soldiers belonging to the Coalition Killers themselves from the USA and Britain, which their respective Governments, still to this day, deny any links with- pathetically and euphemistically called “Gulf war syndrome”, or as I would prefer to rename it – US OPERATION DEATH SYNDROME.
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Illuminati Showdown in Middle East

Postby Sounder » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:41 pm

One C&P deserves another.

Illuminati Showdown in Middle East

September 8, 2013 — Dean Henderson

This week’s US Congressional vote on Syrian missile strikes will prove a watershed event in the battle to wrest global control from the Illuminati banksters.

Russian warships continue to stream into the Eastern Mediteranean. Infowars.com reports that Chinese warships are doing the same. Hezbollah fighters cross the Syrian border with Lebanon en masse. Iran says it will target US embassies in the region if we attack Syria.

Last year, for the first time since the 1979 Iranian Revolution, two Iranian warships entered the Suez Canal bound for the Mediterranean. The frigate and supply ship conducted training exercises with the Syrian military.

Something’s got to give.

Since the 2011 Egyptian uprising, Western intelligence agencies have been busy backing al Qaeda thugs in Libya, Iran and Syria. They succeeded in Libya, where Qaddafi was brutally murdered and CIA Islamists put in charge.

Meanwhile, authentic people-power protests have commenced in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen and Algeria. Battle lines are being drawn in the region. The outcome may well define global geopolitics for the next century.

Ever since the Rockefeller/Rothschild petro-monopoly discovered oil in the region, there has been a resource war between regional nationalist leaders like Boumediene, Nasser and Mossadegh - who fought to retain oil profits for their people – and the Illuminati banking cartel, which has used oil to grease the wheels of its ever-expanding global capitalist enterprise.

Israel has served as Zionist enforcer in the region, using divide and conquer strategies to overcome popular Arab anti-colonial movements. AIPAC lobbyists will be descending on Congress this week in an attempt to draw the US into the Syrian quagmire.

History repeats itself today as the Illuminati corporate media tentacle attempts to equate the uprisings in Illuminati-controlled Bahrain, Yemen and Algeria with those in Iran, Syria and Egypt. The latter three countries have for now won their independence from the banksters. It’s why we are taught to hate them. Iran is demonized the most because it nationalized its oil sector following the overthrow of David Rockefeller’s good friend the Shah of Iran in 1979.

The Illuminati response to this seminal event would define Western intelligence strategy in the region for the next 30 years. As discussed in Chapter 1 of my Big Oil… book, the Iranian Revolution began in the oil-rich Khuzistan region and was spearheaded by left-wing nationalist oilfield workers belonging to the Tudeh and Feyadeen parties.
Executives at Texaco and Exxon were targeted for assassination. Their Iranian Consortium subsidiary had seized Iranian oilfields after the 1953 CIA/Mossad/MI6 overthrow of democratically-elected President Mohamed Mossadegh. The coup was coordinated by British Petroleum.

Once it became clear that the Shah and his brutal SAVAK secret police were about to fall, Western intelligence agencies began to back Ayatollah Khomeini. The banksters knew that the Islamist Khomeini would be easier to work with, and later to discredit, than the nationalists who led the Revolution. Later they provided Khomeini with a hit list of Tudeh and Feyadeen leaders while Israel coordinated arms sales to the Ayatollah for his coming war with Iraq. The Iran/Iraq War was designed to decimate both countries. Western arms flowed to both sides while oil infrastructure was targeted in both nations.

With the Shah gone, the Illuminati’s “Twin Pillars” policy in the Middle East - based on alliances with the Shah and the House of Saud - needed rethinking. President Reagan facilitated the formation of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). The GCC is comprised of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, United Arab Emirates and Qatar. These tiny monarchies line the southwest side of the Persian Gulf – an area that contains 42% of the world’s oil. These former British protectorates were slowly given independence on the condition that single-family monarchs would remain compliant to Illuminati oil interests. In exchange for their loyalty, these families received Western military protection, as much from their own populations as from foreign threats.

A decision was made early on to refine all Saudi crude on the island of Bahrain. Big Oil never trusted the Saudi people, worried that a people’s revolution might result in nationalization of their refineries. Quietly the US Fifth Fleet moved into Bahrain to protect these refineries, as well as the offices of Illuminati-controlled banks such as JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America, HSBC and Barclays. These banks run their offshore Middle East headquarters’ from Bahrain, where they recycle petrodollars and drug money into high-interest loans to the world’s developing nations.

Following the Iranian template, Western intelligence agencies encouraged Islamic extremism in the GCC nations. While the ruling families gamble and fornicate in Monaco, the people are encouraged to embrace Wahhabism to keep their gaze from the glaring class disparities that exist. It is the same strategy employed by the Illuminati in America via their boot-licking Republican Party and it’s Evangelical American Taliban extremist contingent.

In that same year of 1979, a Yemeni uprising resulted in that country splitting into two, with North Yemen - home to many Saudi oilfield workers – remaining loyal to Illuminati interests and South Yemen declaring itself a Marxist state in defiance of the international banksters. When South Yemen cast the lone “No” vote at the UN Security Council in 1991 regarding the Gulf War, they were targeted for destruction by the Illuminati. The nation became one again and it’s Western allied leaders encouraged Islamic fundamentalism.
Algeria was also in the bankster’s crosshairs for their opposition to the Gulf War. The CIA/Mossad/MI6 unleashed AIG (Armed Islamic Group) Islamic terrorists- many of whom later fought for these agencies in Bosnia- against the leftist Algerian government, which had kept its oil nationalized under the state-owned Sonatrech. The Illuminati toppled that government after a series of AIG massacres. Soon the Hydrocarbon Law was passed, AIG extremists loyal to the Illuminati took power and Algeria’s oil sector was handed over to the Rockefeller/Rothschild petro-monopoly.

The people of Algeria, Yemen and Bahrain rose up against these Islamic extremist Illuminati lapdog governments. Egyptians have booted the Muslim Brotherhood. Tunisians look set to do the same. If they succeed, nationalist governments that threaten the Illuminati oil barons will emerge.

In sharp contrast to these popular uprisings are the CIA/Mossad/MI6-fomented events in Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Libya. These countries have already fought revolutions to gain their freedom from the banksters.

Now, more than ever, it is important to know your Middle East history. Battle lines are being drawn between Islamist Western puppets and leftist nationalist movements that attempt to free their people from the Rockefeller/Rothschild oil axis. There may well be a bigger showdown between Iran and Israel.

The outcome will decide whether the world remains wrapped in the oil-addiction stranglehold of Illuminati bondage, or is able to progress beyond colonialism and its monopoly capitalist offspring.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:46 pm

Do you take your post as all literally true, mostly unfounded assertions, ridiculous stuff from the Internet posted for informational purposes, or what, Sounder?
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:08 pm

Sounder has every right to post what he/she wants and does not need your ridiculous condescending critique of his/her posts...quit trying to push people away from RI by trying to shame them or talking down to them.....I like Sounder and your attitude offends me
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby Sounder » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Sorry AD, lets just go back to talking right past each other.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:31 pm

American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:46 pm wrote:Do you take your post as all literally true, mostly unfounded assertions, ridiculous stuff from the Internet posted for informational purposes, or what, Sounder?


Not very cool.
Dean Henderson is a researcher and writer published at GlobalResearch.

Searcher's First Rule of R.I. CopyPasta
One paragraph of one's one own thoughts, however inelegantly expressed, is worth more than ten pages of CopyPasta.
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:48 pm

Sorry if I offended you, Sounder but the honest truth is I don't hold Dean Henderson in high regard and I didn't understand why you were posting him. If reading very quickly, I can notice what I consider to be "true facts" in his pieces. If I read a little more carefully, I'm bothered by many, many oe what I consider to be unfounded assertions.

Ultimately though, a close reading often leads me to believe that Dean Henderson is using a mix of "true facts" and unfounded assertions to support an overall frame that I consider to be unproven. You could call it "Illuminati Theory" or NWO ideas, academic detractors might call it conspiracism. It is too broad brush, too monolithic, too overstated for me. But that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of true facts in the mix!
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby Sounder » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:40 pm

No, no AD, I’m not offended. Why would I be bothered by a flyweight such as you?

I’m simply suggesting that you are useless to engage with because you do nothing but engage in conflation in order to avoid dealing with substantive issues.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby Sounder » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:50 pm

Sounder wrote...
I do not understand why you think I think, or why you think it’s appropriate to suggest that I do think that it ‘means it was all a conspiracy run by some external locus of control.’


To which you responded;
I didn't mean to suggest that you must think it's all one big conspiracy, as I really have no idea how you see it. I was responding more to what Illuminati Theory- in the broadest sense- might say.


But your reply leaves out your original reply that is speaking to me and what I wrote and not to your latest fetish.

As in;
As to American elites "like our ‘eastern establishment’ with its roots in piracy and the British East India Tea Company", ok but this does not mean it was all a conspiracy run by some external locus of control. As to Masons in the American Revolutionary War, yes I think this deserves lots of historical investigation but was it all a big game, run by Masons? I don't see great evidence of this, though I have no doubt that revolutionists did try to solicit support from lodges on the European Continent...

And is everyone that delves into sticky subjects justly discredited by having their observations conflated with "what Illuminati Theory- in the broadest sense- might say"?

Gee, it almost seems like your only relationship to rhetoric is one of wonder at its effectiveness as a social control devise.

My apologies if I seemed to be putting words in your mouth unfairly.


If you were to ever deal with the substance of what I write, rather than always dancing away on the tippy-toes of trivialities, I would have more faith in your sincerity and intentions.

So no, I do not accept your apology.

I agree with you strongly about no coercion, Sounder, as would David Graeber.


Your behavior does not lend credence to your words.

What is the stronger imperative to you; capitalism or coercion?

Communism is merely another variety of western exceptionalism.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:53 pm

American Dream » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:42 pm wrote:
Sounder » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:30 pm wrote:But the vanguard 'believes' in coercion also, otherwise there would no need for such strong imperatives.


Strongly agreed- some of my earliest bad experiences with such types include a political cult with a prison base that coerced innocent young women into complicity with bank robberies, as sex objects for the benefit of group objectives etc. Even if they were a government op- which I strongly suspect- they got away with as much as they did under the banner of a neo-Maoist vanguard.

Other leftist groups which merely infiltrate other meetings without being honest about their affiliation to the secret agenda of such a vanguard group will routinely use cries of "Redbaiting!" as cover, not unlike zionist hawks who are quick to cry "Anti-Semitsm!" when it suits their purposes.

I'm sick of all that shit, want little to nothing to do with such vanguard groups, as for example the Workers' World Party/Party for Socialism and Liberation- a bunch of left handed monkey wrenches who run many of the anti-War protests in the U.S....

I still ask though, how can we be at least somewhat organized- without all the bullshit that goes with these vanguard parties...



Sounder, this was my most recent communication to you before today's unpleasantness. I don't know why you keep trying to sass me off about "Communism" when I have made it clear so many times I am way more of an anarchist, nothing like a Stalinist or Maoist at all.

You came back today with a first post saying something about "Here's some copy and paste to match yours". Then you posted Dean Henderson, who drops some good names sometimes but ultimately seems to be pushing a slightly more polished version of Illuminati Theory, which is not particularly convincing to me at all.

I don't have a problem with you using someone else's article but I do think it's reasonable that I ask, "Why are you running this- do you agree with the author mostly? Some? Not at all?"

I also think it's ok in a thread on Illuminati Theory to ask whether you're proposing some sweeping scope of a conspiracy- this is not conflation- it's called asking a clarifying question, which means I'm actually trying to figure out what you think...
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:08 pm

American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:53 pm wrote:I don't know why you keep trying to sass me off about "Communism" when I have made it clear so many times I am way more of an anarchist, nothing like a Stalinist or Maoist at all.


Having made the same mistake with you several times, including recently - the catalyst is your sources.
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:17 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:08 pm wrote:
American Dream » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:53 pm wrote:I don't know why you keep trying to sass me off about "Communism" when I have made it clear so many times I am way more of an anarchist, nothing like a Stalinist or Maoist at all.


Having made the same mistake with you several times, including recently - the catalyst is your sources.


I don't know how many times I have to clarify that I am anti-Authoritarian, for participatory decision-making, not a believer in the State and its power so much at all.

Not unlike David Graeber, I think Marxian tools are useful for deciphering present social reality but that most Marxist-Leninists are not very useful at all in proposing a course of action.

Here is a brief autobiography of one of thar authors of the op:

About mamos206
I teach in a multi-racial working class community. I also organize to defend and transform public education, to end the school-to-prison pipeline, to fight against institutionalized racism in the schools, etc. I write about these struggles at the Creativity Not Control blog, which we update regularly with news analysis, reflections on life in the classroom, learning activities, creative writing, and strategic thinking about organizing. Our motto is "learning for life, not labor". I am also part of the Black Orchid Collective, a multi-gendered, multiracial revolutionary organization attempting to develop an effective relationship between theory and practice. We publish our reflection on the blog linked below. Finally I occasionally write poetry and theology on my Spiritual Desert blog. I'm slowly working on a book on religion, spirituality, and revolutionary politics. I am a catholic with a lowercase "c" (meaning universal solidarity), but the Catholic Church would consider me a heretic. I am a communist with a lowercase "c" (meaning I want to de-commodify land and labor so we can share everything equally, with no state over us). The Communist parties of the past would consider me a heretic because of my anti-statism and my openness to religious perspectives. I've been involved in a number of movements over the past 10 years: anti-war, Palestine solidarity, labor, anti-austerity/ anti-budget cuts, Occupy, anti-police brutality, anti-deportation, and the struggle against youth incarceration. Mamos is my pen name. Because public education is increasingly repressive, I write under this name so that it will be harder for the corporate education deformers to retaliate against me on the job
.

http://blackorchidcollective.wordpress. ... /mamos206/
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Re: How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Postby minime » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:54 pm

"I am a communist with a lowercase "c" (meaning I want to de-commodify land and labor so we can share everything equally, with no state over us)."

Can you walk me through that?
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