Active Shooter San Bernardino

[SonicG]

[quote="stickdog99 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:22 am"

The shooters were able to leave the scene and drive miles away to some house in Redlands and it was only after an anonymous tip that the cops went to the house and then decided to follow the SUV for no real apparent reason. They then went back to an area close to where the SWAT drill had been taking place only to stop on the street, again for no apparent reason, and engage a million cops in a gun battle.[/quote]

There might be varying versions of exactly how the SUV was spotted:

As officers approach the residence to watch it, a vehicle fitting the same profile of the suspects' SUV leaves, and the officers begin a pursuit.
--
Police get a tip and go to Farook and Malik’s Redlands townhouse. While there, they see a black SUV speed by and chase it back to San Bernardino.

Either way, I agree that the pursuit and gun battle seem very sketchy. They just happened to leave when the cops showed up? They saw the cops coming and had time to get into their car and get away? They didn't approach the house from both ends of the street to block escape? AFAIK the tip apparently was someone telling the cops that Farook had acted strange and abruptly left the party.

Oh and Marquez? Interesting details:

Marquez lived next door to Farook on Tomlinson Avenue in Riverside for many years. Neighbors said they were good friends who often worked on old cars together. He also cemented his connection to his next-door neighbor by marrying the sister of Farook's sister-in-law last year, according to county records.
-----
Marquez never spoke of Farook, according to Ramirez. He talked most often about his desire to enlist in the U.S. Navy. He was intensely focused on that goal and physical fitness, choosing to ride his bicycle to and from work, she said.

But Marquez's ambition was accompanied by occasional admissions of sadness or loneliness, according to Ramirez. He would sometimes publish melancholy or depressing posts on Facebook, Ramirez said, even though his page was otherwise littered with pictures of Marquez smiling or making clownish faces while wearing a bicycle helmet.

On one of the few occasions that he opened up about his personal life, Ramirez remembers Marquez confessing that he and his new wife were "not clicking."

Marquez married Mariya Chernykh in November 2014, according to county records. The marriage added another connection to the Farook family; Chernykh's sister was married to Syed Raheel Farook, the shooter's older brother.

The sisters are from Russia, according to marriage records. Raheel and his wife were both witnesses at Marquez's wedding, records show. Raheel and Chernykh's sister, Tatiana Gigliotti, were married in 2011.

The women came to the United States separately on J-1 visas, which allow foreign individuals to enter for work-study cultural exchange programs, according to the federal official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Marquez's marriage could strike some people as odd, although Ramirez did not find it unusual. Marquez did not live with his wife, she said, and he never explained his living arrangements.

“He never really talked about the friends he had. He wouldn’t bring anybody up," Ramirez said. "He was more of an in-the-moment person.”

Brittani Adams, a neighbor of Syed Raheel Farook, said she had seen Marquez and Chernykh around the family home but the two looked like anything but a married couple.

"He would never leave with her, come with her, not hug her," Adams, 24, said. "None of them seemed like they were married. It was very weird."

A Wal-Mart spokesman said Wednesday that Marquez had worked for the retail giant since May but that the company has made the decision to fire him. He did not elaborate.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

ETA: Oh the Russian wife he didn't click with? Visa marriages...

Chernykh shared an address not with Marquez, but with another man, Oscar Romero, according to public records. Chernykh and Romero posed frequently in photos together with a baby girl, whom they refer to as their daughter, until just two months before Chernykh’s marriage to Marquez when all mention of Oscar Romero disappears from Chernykh’s page. Chernykh took Romero’s name, calling herself Maria Romero on Russian social media sites, even after the marriage. And Romero referred to her as his wife on one of his social media accounts.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/san ... d=35674749

[justdrew]

well, you know, there's another real possibility no one's mentioned, it could be: there are actual terror squads loose in the country and apparently fairly good at evading. Presumably it is considered imperative that this fact not "get out" - and indeed, the mass hysteria such a revelation would engender would probably lead to more deaths than the terrorists would be able to commit. To say nothing of the political ramifications. Possibly it'll leak out about May and go mainstream in June, just before the election, and it'll make the bengazi shenanigans look like a tupperware party.

Anyone remember the scare stories about "saddam's death squads" coming to America from the early 90s? (which may have been an echo of an earlier narrative form the 80s, the details of which escape me completely)

[SonicG]

There's a flashback ~ Saddam's Death Squads...But, then again, why hit such a personalized target? How is this striking any sort of blow to the great Babilon of Amerika? As has been rehashed a bunch, why not just drive an hour into downtown Hollywood and slaughter some obese mid-west tourists at Hollywood and Highland? But yeah, if there is anything remotely like "terror squads", you can probably expect Trump to win...

[justdrew]

There's a flashback ~ Saddam's Death Squads...But, then again, why hit such a personalized target? How is this striking any sort of blow to the great Babilon of Amerika? As has been rehashed a bunch, why not just drive an hour into downtown Hollywood and slaughter some obese mid-west tourists at Hollywood and Highland? But yeah, if there is anything remotely like "terror squads", you can probably expect Trump to win...

everyone seems to think so. even if "isis" is "real" - so could they, and a buffoon like trump they would love to help get elected.

[Elvis]

Anyone remember the scare stories about "saddam's death squads" coming to America from the early 90s? (which may have been an echo of an earlier narrative form the 80s, the details of which escape me completely)

Forgot about that! but in the context of the SB events, that is very suggestive if not telling.

why hit such a personalized target?

Maybe to get the idea across, "the next terrorist could be your neighbor or co-worker!"

[backtoiam]

The video is damning as hell. This guy shows you their tactical manual with dates and where they hired the crew. This one may not stay on youtube long.

[AlicetheKurious]

The video is damning as hell. This guy shows you their tactical manual with dates and where they hired the crew. This one may not stay on youtube long.

That was scary, and convincing, as hell. After watching it, my first impulse was to get on the phone, wake up my sister who lives in the US and tell her to get the hell out of that crazy country. NOW. But then I saw how the conversation would go, and she'd be telling me not to blow things out of proportion, she's fine, etc. She wouldn't leave, she loves her life there. I bet Farook and his wife did, too. Boiling frogs.

[Harvey]

Arlington Road?

[Elvis]

The video is damning as hell. This guy shows you their tactical manual with dates and where they hired the crew. This one may not stay on youtube long.

That was scary, and convincing, as hell.

So even the Inland Regional Center Christmas party was fake? -- a staged "event" enacted by fake victims and crisis actor witnesses? That's what the video is saying. He seems to be saying there were no actual shootings, period. It gets complicated from there: is Inland Regional Center a real things or is that made up too? How do we explain IRC Facebook page? Was the whole mass murder story cooked up by Karl Rove's Hollywood scenarists and acted out by crisis actors hired off a Craigslist call board (edit: as claimed in the video)?


I know I'm becoming an old crank, but that video is 'convincing as hell'? srsly?

[conniption]

counter punch

December 9, 2015
When Were They Radicalized? That’s Not the Right Question!

by Rev. Graylan Scott Hagler




The big question these days dominating the airwaves is when was Syed Farook and Tasheen Malik radicalized; or who radicalized them; and how were they radicalized? This question is a perplexing one because it assumes that without outside influence everything would be all right and that there are no valid grievances, or anger, and no desire for revenge or justice no matter how misguided those desires might be manifested.

This is a strange line of query because it presupposes that without external forces radicalization would be impossible. This line of questioning illustrates a blind patriotism of empire proportion that believes that anyone upset and acting out is either demented or have fallen under the influences of a political/religious ideology that exploits the weak minded or the mentally deranged. To even ask the question is to make the assumption that everything is ok around us and in our world and would be regarded as such if it were not for outside influences. But this perspective has a tendency to ignore the realities of what so many people live under and have to endure daily. It is often from personal experiences, relationships with those impacted by what most of us don’t see or care about are the radicalizing factors. The present queries act as if there are no valid grievances, no real anger, and as if there is innocence on the part of the powerful, the US and others. But this is not the way that peoples of the Middle East, North Africa and Asia see the US or the West.

The US and its partners have been at war for more than 14 years in Afghanistan. The US began an unprovoked and preemptive war in Iraq in 2003 and virtually destroyed the country where today ISIL is filling part of the vacuum created by that war, and the President of Afghanistan literally is presiding over nothing but the capital city of that country, Kabul. The US under the cry of removing President Bashar Hafez al-Assad in Syria by helping to orchestrate and sustain a civil war has created a displacement crisis of epic proportion and caused the deaths of more than 250,000 people. Conditions in many countries have worsened under the wars and the remaking of the Middle East and North Africa in the West’s image. Our continual military support of Israel against Palestinians challenges the view that everything is ok without the influences of “outside agitators” radicalizing people and calling them to arms. According to Ha’aretz, an Israeli newspaper, in an August 2014 report it states concerning military aid to Israel,

“Since it began in 1962, American military aid to Israel has amounted to nearly $100 billion. For the past decades The United States has been regularly transferring aid of about $3 billion annually. In recent years, the aid has been solely for defense purposes. Additionally, The US has been giving Israel generous military aid for projects important both to it and Israel.”

Even in light of Israel’s continued human rights violation Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in November 2015 traveled to Washington, DC to request an increase to the amount of aid his country receives from the US.

Then there is also the US drone program designed to make killing more antiseptic and distant. However in a 2013 speech before the National Defense University President Obama said, “It is a hard fact that US strikes have resulted in civilian casualties.”

He did not go on to cite numbers or further details, yet Micah Zenko, a scholar at the Council on Foreign Relations and lead author of a 2013 study of drones, is quoted in an April 23, 2015 New York Times article on drone strikes, in reference to the President’s 2013 comments, “Most individuals killed are not on a kill list, and the government does not know their names.”

The program has not been as clean as government leaders would have liked for us to think. Or lastly among many examples, a November 2014 article in the Guardian cites:

“A new analysis of the data available to the public about drone strikes, conducted by the human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people…”

The assumption that “radicalization” is not based in some reality is an empire or White supremacist notion where everything is ok save for those rabble-rousers, outside agitators, and purveyors of hatred. Again I am reminded every time I hear some newsperson or some pundit drone on (excuse the pun) about when, how and who did the radicalization about J. Edgar Hoover, former Director of the FBI during the Civil Rights era and the status-quo politicians of the time looking under every rock for communist agitators from Moscow who had inflamed and radicalized the Black folks to march, demonstrate and rebel! It is an empire and White supremacist notion to believe that all is fine save for outside influences. The assumption is ‘who would not be happy with our way of life, our agendas, or ways we see the world.’

Keep in mind that I am not condoning acts of violence by any side or carried out in any name of God or nationalistic identifications. I am simply pointing out that it is real conditions and experiences that have given credence to the so-called “radicalization” process. There are agents recruiting and organizing people to join their cause, but it is recruitment based on some stalk and harsh realities produced by war, greed, and attempting to fashion entire regions in the United States’ political image.

Therefore it stands to reason that to combat so-called radicalization the US and its partners need to ethically evaluate it motives and initiatives and stand to be judged in a world court where warranted. The US and its allies need to allow countries and regions to develop without interference, manipulation or control. The mechanisms of radicalization would be muted and impotent if the US and its partners addressed human rights violations carried out around the world by itself, its partners and its allies. There would be no fertile ground to recruit from if people felt the processes were fair and just rather than exploited by a few nations and corporations at the expense of everyone else. This is a part of what needs to happen to thwart radicalization. The US and its allies must right the wrongs they have done and attempt to restore regions and people to govern their own selves no matter how those structures might look in the end.

As far as who, when and how Syed Farook and Tasheen Malik and the countless others were radicalized? The answer to this question is found in a world that has been ravished by war and greed; in the conditions of despair that has been created; in the powerless feeling pushed around by the powerful; and it is there in refugee camps and at funerals from drone strikes that we will find the agents of anger that breeds radicalization that we claim we do not understand.

[elfismiles]

One of the repeatedly posed questions here makes me want to find out if there are any studies done that investigate:

"Can friends recognize friends who are in full-body costumes?"

For several years now it's surprised me how I seem to be able to identify (in some cases from nearly 100 yards away) people I've not seen in years. Often these are people I see walking on the sidewalk a ways away as I am driving and they aren't even facing me. I'm not sure what search terms one would use to find studies of this: biometric recognition of friends at a distance?

These questions about how people might or might not have recognized their coworker while wearing head-to-toe military garb and ski-mask, whether one could tell such costumed characters were male or female, all while under the duress of loud gunfire and fearing for one's like ... there has to be some research on this stuff somewhere.

"Sally Abdelmageed works at the Inland Regional Center and saw the attackers enter the building."

Also, re: 3-shooter witness Sally Abdelmageed ... does anyone know WHERE she was when she witnessed this? She's said to have seen them enter the building, so that implies to me that she was in an adjacent building? But she also mentions seeing a victim shot and hitting the floor. Was this seen through the windows of the Conference Center? Or perhaps she was within the conference center and its layout allowed her to see both the perps approach and enter as well as once they were within the building... or perhaps the victim was outside and when she says "floor" she meant "ground."

Also wondering where in the complex, which building, Nurse Dorothy Vong who took the cellphone footage, was located within - what direction she was filming.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

[elfismiles]

As reported by the Daily Mail, another video seen below from the YouTube account of Timmy Hilliard shows cops surrounding the “IRC” as the man in the video calls it. He was in building 2, but the shooting occurred in building 3, says the man in the video. He talks about more people and dead bodies in the massive San Bernardino shooting.

Warning: The below video of the San Bernardino shooting victims taken from inside the Inland Regional Center might be disturbing to some viewers.

In the video, a woman’s voice can be heard talking on the phone, warning people against going near the area of the shooting in the San Bernardino office. The various voices can be heard counting out bodies — some of the San Bernardino shooting victims are seen in the video being dragged out, dead. Others in the San Bernardino shooting video were deemed to be in critical condition.

“We heard everything and I see bodies. Just tell everybody to stay away, because we don’t know where the shooter is.”

Continually throughout the video, the people in the conference room can be heard worriedly calling their loved ones and watching out the window as police try and contain the damage in the San Bernardino shooting. One woman advises the person she’s speaking with not to tell her dad about the San Bernardino shooting, saying he’ll have a heart attack. The IRC workers ask one another if they know who the San Bernardino shooter or shooters are, and at that point, they don’t know. A female voice bemoans being trapped in the conference room while others say that the police were on their way to their building.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2606863/san-be ... ic-videos/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxpCF3-DLMQ

[Rory]

The video is damning as hell. This guy shows you their tactical manual with dates and where they hired the crew. This one may not stay on youtube long.

That was scary, and convincing, as hell.

So even the Inland Regional Center Christmas party was fake? -- a staged "event" enacted by fake victims and crisis actor witnesses? That's what the video is saying. He seems to be saying there were no actual shootings, period. It gets complicated from there: is Inland Regional Center a real things or is that made up too? How do we explain IRC Facebook page? Was the whole mass murder story cooked up by Karl Rove's Hollywood scenarists and acted out by crisis actors hired off a Craigslist call board?


I know I'm becoming an old crank, but that video is 'convincing as hell'? srsly?

San Bernardino doesn't even exist IRL. It's put on maps to mess with people. It's one great big movie set in the desert

[elfismiles]

San Bernardino doesn't even exist IRL. It's put on maps to mess with people. It's one great big movie set in the desert

Yeah, and God buried dinosaur bones to test our faith. He's a prankster god.

https://youtu.be/PNobvBZZSHs?t=3m26s


https://youtu.be/E-8-n2_rW6o?t=1m49s

[AlicetheKurious]

The video is damning as hell. This guy shows you their tactical manual with dates and where they hired the crew. This one may not stay on youtube long.

That was scary, and convincing, as hell.

So even the Inland Regional Center Christmas party was fake? -- a staged "event" enacted by fake victims and crisis actor witnesses? That's what the video is saying. He seems to be saying there were no actual shootings, period. It gets complicated from there: is Inland Regional Center a real things or is that made up too? How do we explain IRC Facebook page? Was the whole mass murder story cooked up by Karl Rove's Hollywood scenarists and acted out by crisis actors hired off a Craigslist call board?


I know I'm becoming an old crank, but that video is 'convincing as hell'? srsly?

I was referring to the part about the guns and the SUV supposedly used by Farook and his wife being standard government-issue for those who just happened to have been mobilized in advance to respond first (including the ATF), about the eyewitnesses' accounts of three tall, "athletic" men, the drills and the run-up to the event, including the mysterious ad for actors who must sign confidentiality agreements for a job that would take place on December 2, 2015, and the fact that the contact number in that ad had been disconnected for a long time before, and after, the run-up to the event. The part about that Vickers guy really creeped me out, as well. Just the logistical details that seemed to be concentrated in the exact locations where the drama unfolded, for this supposedly out-of-the-blue shooting.