Alien Abductions and the Monarch Project

[11:11]

I don't think the banning is fair. I've read lots of posts/threads on this board that are very anti zionist - just as much as OSR. She may be abrasive, but she hasn't said anything that hasn't been said by others.

[philipacentaur]

Thanks for the elucidation, DE.

[LilyPatToo]

Dream's End, I'm disappointed by this:

LPT, you help discredit survivors by backing OSR. All that Jew bashing...that's not even some new insight...that's simply the same crap that's been put out since Hitler.

I do not and never have "backed" Onesmartrat's politics--they are her own. But I DO back *her*. The both of us are damaged goods and some of our sociopathic abusers were probably buddies--they certainly shared an identical world view that told them that little girls were prey. And that we could be made to do amazing things with the right techniques and a little time and effort.

OSR is who she is, but she got that way by surviving things that I thought you of all people had a handle on. She and I are broken in some of the same ways and also in some very different ways. We definitely do NOT agree on many, many things, but she is my sister in a way that my blood sister will never be. OSR did her level best to help me to deprogram to a point where I could see what was happening to me and begin to finally get a grasp on what the hell had happened to my life.

She and I both have a ways to go, but as kristinerosemary said, sometimes people act out in ways that may seem impenetrable to anyone not on the same path or acting from the same script. Several times now, Onesmartrat has made a kamikazi (sp?) dive into a board, pissed off legions of folks and gotten everyone's attention in a way that my posts could never do. And then I've gone on talking when she's been banned and ended up with huge threads that are full of her colorful information and my own much more pedestrian detective work about the MC programs.

So I don't agree with you that I "discredit survivors" by backing someone who backed me. I don't have to admire everything about another survivor in order to respect and care for them. And I think that my attitude is a credit to survivors, not a demerit, since for us, trusting anyone or even sticking up for ourselves are skills we didn't learn as early as the rest of you.

LilyPat

[Joe Hillshoist]

OSR certainly gets attention and stirs up debate. Whatever you think of her claims.

But i don't find her anti israel views any nastier than several other posters on this board.

I dunno about that male in his 20s thing either. Thats the sort of claim I would like to see real, serious, evidence for. If its true its deplorable, but if it isn't then the claim she is a he is infinitely worse - its walking a very dodgy path toward denying people - the history of Western legal judgements is chock full of the denial of sexual assault victims claims, basically through ridicule and bullying. Usually its the blokes who do the ridiculing, bullying and lying too. And the victims, who are most often female, get victimised a second time.

OSR is who she is, but she got that way by surviving things that I thought you of all people had a handle on.

Have to second this too. I know alot of female abuse survivors with a very nasty turn of phrase and who are very aggrssive in defending their POV, thats totally understandable too. Even if it makes them hard to relate to. I dunno perhaps people would prefer them to be meek and submissive about their experiences?

[LilyPatToo]

"Male in his 20's"? I must have missed that--is it in this thread somewhere? It's the same total bullshit that one of the big-mouthed bullies on the Bleak Vault was trying to push about Onesmartrat. I've met her and spent around 7 hours sitting across a table from her talking one day when she was in San Francisco. She is female and a decade or so younger than I am....so if that's who you're referring to, she's a she.

LilyPat

[Joe Hillshoist]

There was the claim onb the BV thread linked a couple of pages back, and this:

Jeff Posted: 17 Mar 2007 18:31 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FYI, I've banned onesmartrat. He can get his hate-on elsewhere.

I seem to remember you posting that you had met her, either way back on this thread or somewhere else, after someone accused you and her of being the same person.

Thats why I brought it up.

but if it isn't then the claim she is a he is infinitely worse - its walking a very dodgy path toward denying people - the history of Western legal judgements is chock full of the denial of sexual assault victims claims, basically through ridicule and bullying.

I would hatew to see this board follow that particular path to hell.

[Dreams End]

LPT...I'm sorry. It is entirely possible that OSR's "style" is a result of programming. But if it is, it's programming meant to discredit or worse. I happen to think Whitley Strieber is a victim...in fact, I know a lot more about him than about OSR. But that doesn't mean I won't protest his "love your abuser" message, or his former practice of bringing truth seekers to his cabin so they could be raped by "aliens" while he provides "reassurance." (Did people know he did this...creepiest thing ever.)

Yet you supported my "outing" of Strieber. Don't you support him as a victim? But you don't see his statements about what the aliens are as being his "politics." You see them as part of a screen memory.

But OSR's statements about Jews are not her "politics" either. They are part of the story she is telling about her actual experiences. She's not saying "I was abused...I vote Democrat by the way" she was saying:

"I was abused by an evil cabal that is, at heart, a grand Jewish conspiracy." (Jews from Mars...sure, but Jews)

This is not a theory she is testing out. She is passing this information along in exactly the same way that she is passing on information about other aspects of her abuse. Whether it is a screen memory or whatever, it's important not to let it stand unchallenged.

When I was more politically active, someone who comes in and immediately gets everyone riled up and taking sides was called a provocateur. It's done to divide and discredit. I've seen it rip real live groups apart (as in, not just online). I know it when I see it.

Yeah, she's "gotten everyone's attention in a way that (your) posts could never do." Everybody is drawn into the fight and many people who would find themselves open to the prospect of MKULTRA, etc, are completely turned off and decide that it's really just some John Birch fantasy. It is this exact same kind of stuff that:

1. Kept me from buying that ANY of it was true for so long (If I'd never heard of the Finders I might still be thinking that way) and

2. Frustrates the hell out of me when I'm trying to find some reliable information.

I don't know what she has survived. I don't know a thing about her. Except what she said on this thread. And what she said, as you can see, was not well received. This is not value neutral. It is harmful to the cause.

She was talking about how she was going to get banned almost from the beginning and she has, likely not for the first time, gotten you caught up in the drama.

I think it is perfectly possible to say, as I have publicly and privately, that OSR has put out some good information (not here, unfortunately, but the little bit I read at UC). As I mentioned, her information on John Mack was a goldmine. He was dirty as hell and she nailed him. I hadn't seen anyone do that before. I was hoping to be the first, actually. But in THAT post she had all kinds of data and links and reasoned analysis. ANYONE who read that post would have found it challenging to disagree.

But you are putting your own credibility on the line by not making your own distinctions about OSR absolutely crystal clear. tough love, maybe. But the population OSR speaks to has many people whose personal boundaries are in absolute tatters. Those who have regained those boundaries or never lost them in the first place are obligated to draw some protective lines.

I have my own theories about OSR. If she is a victim...and I know very little about her to say...I can't help but wonder if part of her programming was to make her feel she was a "chosen one". Strieber talks about having been told this by the aliens...

I'm fairly certain that getting people to believe this about themselves was one of the games the MKULTRA types were playing. In fact, that's exactly what Andrija Puharich was doing with his "Geller Kid" program in the seventies. He was programming those little kids to believe that they were actually aliens who had come to earth to spread an important message. Yeah...they were also called "Space Kids". Sound familiar? (referring to the "star child" discussion earlier. )

But in dealing with someone like OSR decisions have to be made. There's an issue of boundaries and safety. She scared the shit out of at least one poster over there at UC in the threads I read. Pronounced this long involved "diagnosis" of who in the other poster's family was abducted and programmed and why. Based on very scant info. Did the same thing to someone here...someone who seems to have some stability so it didn't do much harm in this case. But that shit is dangerous. Whatever the truth was, you don't just go telling people things like that. If it's not true you are creating needless trauma. And if she did happen to hit the truth...that is NOT the way you go about introducing the idea. It's retraumatizing and triggering. I'm glad you got some good insight from her, but she's dangerous, in my view.

Meanwhile, anyone who comes along sees that thread, and in addition to her questionable "politics" as you call it, they now have proof that these "fantasies" are simply a matter of mentally unstable people reinforcing each others' delusions. "Look, that guy said he had headaches and OSR said he obviously had an implant." Let's leave that to the X-rays next time. Imagine someone already frightened they may be a victim trying to sleep tonight with THAT little factoid having been dumped in his lap.

So, she is divisive, and given her almost gleeful prophecies of imminent banning, intentionally so. She is spreading disinformation that discredits legitimate stories. And, with her instant diagnoses, she's becoming an FMSF poster child.

I'm sorry if I've ticked you off, LPT, but when victims cross the line to abuser (even if only verbally so) I think it's important to stay firm. PW was far more polite than I was...but nobody noticed her post. I didn't mean to wait till she was banned but I guess she broke her own record this time.

[kristinerosemary]

I hate to post what is essentially a finger-waving comment here, but I can't resist any longer.

I don't believe anyone can be diagnosed via internet chat board. It's legitimate to speak to one's own experiences, to share them in respectful ways with part of the intention being to enlighten others who might eventually follow a similar path. But adapting a position of superior and absolute knowledge will not win any converts, and casts a bad light on others who might share your beliefs.

maybe a provo seeks no converts.

[Evutch]

i've been reading some of this thread, and others for a bit. always wanted to jump in, but never got the time or nerve..
this can be a hard place, albeit a little more cerebral, and the insults more creative than what i'm used to at a Vault near here...
as usual, i come throgh the front door, to find dust just beginning to settle from OSRs exit...
and so many different reactions to HER leaving, as to make me wonder who the hell the the good, bad, or just ugly are here..., although i have some good ideas..
( sorry about these emoticon crap, i will try not to use them..they seem so purile..)
ANYWAYS, i like OSR, even though, if i had to sit next to her in the park, i'd sit way WAY to one end of the bench, so as to stay out of splash range when the snipers zero'd in..
her stories, and first person accounts, are very valuable, and some of her explanations are mind jarring, which can be good..
i'm just gonna relate my own odd stories now and then..i hope it doesn't bore lilypat, who i know from a strange land and a strange time far away...and who was a key earlier this year in helping me find and shed one very powerful mind control key and lock that has controlled me for over fifty years..( thanks again kid..) we are kindred, in a way, as i know alot of the same ( usual) suspects, in the same woods she experienced..i just saw a different angle, and different bodies...she wrangled and dodged mind fucks..and i dodged bullits..along with the aliens, and agents, and bumpity bump things in the night..and i see from a few of you, you've seen a TON of strange stuff too! i love strange...put enough of those pieces together, and we will piss off something, or somebody..and that's fun..or liberating, or empowering...i don't mind the dissagreements...
i see alot of time wasting arguements here between intelligent people, who not only disagree, but want others to think the same way...
piss on that.
if i can just kinda understand what you are trying to say, that's enough...
i disagree with lilypat and OSR on a lot of things..but try and understand it, and i never called them control whores..and they never called me shit for spelling brainless..
so, i like this place...i'll be back..and share..
i just hate it when i decide to finally show, and the loudist party guest has left...and i really like her...in a scarey out of knife blade distance is that my blood sorta way...

[Attack Ships on Fire]

I don't think the banning is fair. I've read lots of posts/threads on this board that are very anti zionist - just as much as OSR. She may be abrasive, but she hasn't said anything that hasn't been said by others.

If someone is going to be consistently rude to another person on here because they dared ask for clarification to a cryptic answer, then I will tend to dismiss whatever that person has to say. OSR was doing just that. There is no need to be rude to others on here when we're all groping in the dark searching for any illumination, and to claim that the information you possess is the absolute truth and that some of us are too dense or stupid to understand it, and thus not worth the bother, is counterproductive to the nature of this forum.

I've seen near-flame war debates on here with Hugh Manatee Wins, even participated in a couple. I haven't seen Hugh step over the line and be insulting to his opponents. Furthermore, I also think that Hugh has earned the respect of many of his critics, myself included. We should be able to disagree with someone on here, even backpedal and withdraw claims of information or theory with no further reason given, but I don't think anyone should have the right to belittle, put down or insult others on here for their own amusement, such as I saw from OSR laughing it off after issuing a put down or two to those that dared call him/her on his/her behavior or suppositions.

OSR may have their own internal demons for acting the way that they do, but that same leniency was not being extended to others by OSR. The golden rule: treat others as you would like to be treated and all that.

Just my thoughts on it.

[kristinerosemary]

why was she banned by the way

[11:11]

DE, you wrote something like: Freemasons>Theosophy>Nazis>Scientology>Strieber. What came before Freemasons? Templars? And who and what were the Templars interested in? Where does all of this ancient cult crap come from? Egypt, Babylon? Who was Moses? I'm not asking these questions rhetorically, but to point out that OSR, in her search for the roots of THE CULT, has looked far back in history. I think that she has concluded that this cult continued through the tribe of Judah. An ancient, blood sacrifice cult, based upon sun worship. If these cult beliefs were appropriated by Freemasons or Nazis, or a dozen other groups, it's the same cult. You know, from your own research, that there are occult underpinnings to modern mind control. Have you looked THAT far back? The Nazis were obsessed with bloodlines. Well, who else is??? Who are the chosen people? Who is a Jew? It's bloodline, isn't it? Matralineal (sp). MDNA. British Isrealism is also obsessed with this, tracing their roots back to the Jews. This bloodline/DNA bullshit permeates ALL of these occult groups, disparate though they may seem. I think it's possible that there are dots you haven't yet connected. I'm not saying it's fact - I don't know. The subject is deeper than my interest or inclination to research it. What I am saying is that this is where OSR is coming from, and it's based upon her research, as well as her experiences with the people who hurt her. IF occult Judaism plays a role in this, then it is what it is. Fucking A, the Bible is the biggest load of occult horsehit that ever was. Racist, secret knowledge, blood sacrifice - it's all there. These crazy beliefs continue with Christians and Muslims, which have their roots in the same stuff. It's one big BAD SEED, out of which has sprung many other cults, that even seem at odds with each other. Perhaps they really are not.

I don't know a whole lot about this. I've just picked this stuff up in bits and pieces. It's all so repulsive that I can't see why any of it should be given a pass - and I mean Judaism. That said, I want to make it clear that I'm just trying to explain what I understand of OSR's beliefs. I think ALL religion is dangerous, destructive, and is mind control, meant to destroy man's connection to his spirt.

[11:11]

Bill Cooper is someone who looked into this occult thing, and it's relationship to today, doing 40 hours of radio on the history of what he called Mystery Babylon. I found a link with all of the shows, for anyone who's interested. I heard it on the radio, but it was years ago, and I never absorbed the whole thing. Pretty interesting, as I recall.

http://oneheartbooks.com/resources/audi ... abylon.htm

[Joe Hillshoist]

I dunno how trustworthy Bill Cooper is. Or was.


About the stonecutters.

A mate of mine's grandad was supposedly a Scottish rite freemason via the so called druidic connection. Apparantly his ancestors escaped Scotland (using masonic connections) during or just after the last Highland clearances.

Anyway apparantly their (His branch of masons) story, according to his grandad, is something along the lines of this:

The bloodline thing is to trace jesus and mary magdeline's kids.

Every culture and religion is chasing the bloodline to ID a prophesised messiah. The mahdi is supposed to be the same chap. And ole matey reckons that the one of the reasons that falun gong are being hammered so hard in China is that the Chinese govt is looking for the same guy (or girl) and they are worried thats where our future saviour is coming from.

This character will be able to rebuild the grail, which is supposedly the plasma generated by a free energy device. Or something that generates huge amounts of energy from what seems like a tiny input.

He or She will then lead the world on a crusade. Apparantly when this character appears, all those of any/other religions will recognise the dude or dudette and join him. (Shades of the antichrist myth in there too).

Hence the coming with a sword thing that so many apocalyptic religous cults seem to indulge in.

They are in a battle to try and control this character and the power he or she will supposedly develop. Or something.

(Is this what the DaVinci code was about, I haven't bothered reading it? Ole matey has been talking about this, if you get him in the right mood and at the right time, for years.)

It sounds a bit Dunish too, actually. This thread inspired me to reread Dune the other day, plenty of bizarre thoughts there. Like the obvious MC connections and the obsession with bloodlines, and messianic characters AND the spice turning your eyes blue, we all know what turns blue when you pick it (well some of us do...)

Don't like messiahs of any form meself...

[11:11]

I also found this really intersting site for anyone looking back, trying to figure out who comes from where, and where their beliefs orginated.

http://www.geocities.com/spenta_mainyu/index.htm