Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:37 am

A big factor I just thought of is that 99% of our population live in coastal cities. Which means an extremely high number of professional metropolitans that have need to identify as educated, which they do through being 'pro-science'. Pretty much everyone has a university degree, but pretty much no one understands the difference between knowledge and understanding. They can tell you how things work. But if you ask them why, no different than children do, they start to panic.

So we have a lot of university educated people who are functionally stupid, but get around this by clutching at their credentials like prayer beads.

I should add though, what's being attempted in Australia is failing. It is reflected merely in law. When they say you can't have an illegal protest, and people protest illegally, and the cops can't arrest all the people. . .well, the only commentary to be done on such a thing is by David Attenborough. Law cannot control nature. However hard the scientific reductionist do try to refute this.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby The Bernician » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:44 am

drstrangelove » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:03 am wrote:It's quite easy to normalise 'global conspiracy' because political groupings have been continental blocs since WW2. The idea of the nation state died with that war, and we entered a period of coalition crafting - which is the EU, the Anglo-american alliance etc.

These continental blocs operate through foreign policy institutes, like the council on foreign relations, bilderberg group etc.

So it's easy to convince anyone this is a global conspiracy' so long as you don't use the word conspiracy, which shouldn't really be used because these people are literally above the law, and at the highest tier are concerned with civilizational cycles, specifically, trying to avoid as best one can elongated periods of decay or decline. This is why the British gave control of western civilization over to the Americans, because the Americans are now having to deal with all the problems faced by the Romans at the end of their expansion.

In regards to Australia, it must be noted that what has happened to this point, is mostly theoretical. By that I mean, the laws being passed have not been accepted, so far as the public can ignore them. This isn't to say the videos you see of police interactions here aren't real, or concerning, but they usually concern people who activity challenge police authority, or flaunt the rules in front of cops in the hope of filming a confrontation. Which they should be doing, because it puts pressure on the police and turns people against them. So even though I support this behaviour, it's not reflective of the reality. Which is, at this point, you can just ignore the rules and the cops won't bother you so long as you don't actively attempt to undermine their authority. The police unions have even made statement s against lockdown laws, which is hilarious, because the state obviously doesn't want to pay the police for a police state.

Geographically Australia is unique, in that we are culturally western civ but isolated and fall into what is becoming China's sphere of influence. So it may have something to do with Australia needing to become more congruent with a more authoritarian eastern outlook. Or maybe they want the population more rigidly organised should conflict break out. On the most recent census they asked a question of every citizen whether they had any military service experience. Which was a pretty big red flag.

We also have no real cultural heritage in Australia, and very young institutions that are easily controlled remotely through the same aforementioned foreign policy institutes and our intelligence alliance called five eyes with the US and Commonwealth. In 1974 our prime minister was outed by the British and Americans through the CIA because he tried to nationalise our mining sector. They called it a constitutional crises to keep the idea of democracy alive and well.

We are also probably more pliant. As in, the French have that cultural history of mass protest, well, Australia has never really experienced political adversity. Most don't even understand that a protest isn't something the government approves. It's funny, people complaining about unapproved protests, or going to protests that have been approved by the government thinking they are protesting something.

Isn't strange that somehow all g20 nations can roll out vaccine passports no one voted for, there are mass protests against, yet go ahead anyhow. Clearly there is global coordination. It's information authorities. I write about these info authorities on my site below if you are interested.


This is very interesting. I suppose those of a certain age in this country have grown up watching Neighbours, seen the occasional totemic Ashes series when they were on normal TV, and, if we've lived in London a while, house-shared with a smattering of Australians. So we think you're basically the same as us, but better at barbecues and sport. But it sounds pretty different, in that this country has been extremely compliant in the main and with most of the measures. Even now you see a not-insignificant proportion of people obediently putting on their masks to stand up from their table and walk a few steps to the toilet, way after anyone's telling them to. Also, the 1974 Australian coup - something I only learned about really pretty recently. It's astonishing how much basic history is hidden from even pretty well-informed people. Un/approved protests brings to mind Scottish independence, and how the SNP have conspired with the UK government (aided by the EU treatment of the Catalan question) to frame independence as something that must be approved of by the colonial power. Obviously utterly absurd, yet apparently widely accepted. I've been feeling that way about a lot of things recently. I get exhausted, for example, even at the idea of trying to explain why medical coercion is a bad thing - something that recently seemed so banal as to be unworthy of mention.

Anyhow, you also talk about hows and whys. I've had the pleasure of being a full-time parent to an extremely inquisitive and questioning now-toddler. 'Why?' came extremely early, and to try and answer those questions properly is no small matter. Usually, after checking she doesn't mean 'how?', as she often does, I say I don't really know, but here are some possibilities. (Hence, I guess, the common trope in culture of the 'idiot' character, who asks the stupid questions; or indeed the child, as in the Emperor's New Clothes.) As it goes, I've always been more of a why? than a how? person, which I guess leads in to thinking about people, structures, and power, because the material world can give us some good ideas on how, but will never yield to any 'why?' question (at least, not to our rational minds). Science is a discipline that tells us 'that'; can have a good stab at 'how?'; and can stray into pretentions at 'why?' (and even 'ought), which is I suppose what is being utilised dangerously right now. Not being able to say much about how, though, renders me intellectually a bit naked when trying, if not to convince, then at least to help open minds. I came across a good explainer on the role of international institutions in the mechanics of turning will into action, so will definitely take a look at your site.

I've observed in my life the increasing reductionism of all debate and indeed all social value to money, as the crudest expression of power and social status, with all else pushed to the margins (e.g. 'identity politics'). All things are instrumental, and to argue otherwise is to be an anachronism. I think this has softened us up intellectually, for other types of closed, linear, reductionist thinking. Functional stupidity, as you put it, and it makes the broad mass of us very easy to manipulate, program, hypnotise. It's quite scary being kind of aware of this, but also kind of susceptible at the same time. Makes one wonder what else one can't even begin to see.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:50 am

Anyhow, you also talk about hows and whys. I've had the pleasure of being a full-time parent to an extremely inquisitive and questioning now-toddler. 'Why?' came extremely early, and to try and answer those questions properly is no small matter. Usually, after checking she doesn't mean 'how?

Children haven't been brainwashed yet, so when they are told the world is a certain way, they naturally question it . It's actually the most admirable common trait in children.

Most people couldn't go three 'whys' deep with a toddler without being thrust into an existential crises. Parents are put under more intellectual scrutiny than most professors who lecture these toddlers as students once they have become fully developed personalities.

Every time we go outside we put on clothes. We never think about why we do this. If it is a warm and sunny day, a toddler may think it stupid to wear clothes outside, and ask their parent 'why' they must do so. The parent then must either let their toddler go out naked and likely be embarrassed for them, or teach their toddler to be ashamed of their body to fit in. Pretty confronting stuff people learn if they actively engage with parenting.

It's ashame a lot of people don't really want to raise their kids these days, and see that activity as a burden rather than something they can learn from. Anyway, doesn't sound like you have that issue though.

But beyond this early childhood scenario , the entire cycle of parenthood is a course on the foundation of power relationships. Parents who do not recognise the change in the real power relationship between them and their child will have an unstable relationship with them. This generally becomes acute in the early teens when there is a disagreement over, not only rules, but most importantly a parents ability to enforce the rules. A parent who makes rules they can't enforce will become an illegitimate authority, BUT, this is exactly the same for a goverment! If you make rules, you must enforce them. If you cannot enforce the rules, you must get rid of them to reflect the rules you can enforce. Some parents become authoritarian! They become reactionary in an attempt to hang onto the old power relationship which granted them more control over their child. But if the will of the teenager does not break, then the relationship will break. Some parents will recognise the power relationship has shifted, and work with the teenager in granting them more freedoms, thus allowing them to keep some control, which in my opinion is responsible government, so probably responsible parenting too. Others would give up trying to control them completely, which would be zero goverment, or anarchy.

I'm not even a parent but find all this shit so interesting.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:02 am

So we have a lot of university educated people who are functionally stupid, but get around this by clutching at their credentials like prayer beads.


Yes, there is a segment of our society that allows their egos to become bigger than what is necessary, or even worthy.

I've come to the conclusion that most, if not all of the people on RI who are vigorously complaining about the poor comparisons to the Nazis are vaccinated. They make lame comments about how they really don't support vaccine passports and lockdowns, but only after being called out for their complicity. At least we got rid of Trump! These lockdowns, forced mask wearing, indoctrination and brainwashing with Mass Formation are sorta problematic, but oh my fucking god we got rid of Trump! :yay

Why would they complain about the new bio-security totalitarian state and Build Back Better(!) when they have their "health passport," are compliant and welcome the masks? Of course they will shout down and make new rules about historic comparisons being inaccurate and not very helpful. Meanwhile do nothing. They complain about the zeal, frustration and literal exasperation by those that really experience the consequences. They don't care. They have said they don't give a fuck. They look down on those without the credentials as they clutch their health passports and always make sure to keep it with them so they can hangout at their favorite places. They do not care that many have lost their jobs, businesses, homes or that a family member or friend committed suicide or contemplates it.

Mention other dog whistle narratives and the salivating returns. The current theater in Texas about abortion is hilarious because it brought back to the forefront, my body my choice. The irony is so ripe that is stinks. Like listening to Andrew Dice Clay.

So shut up slaves!
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:31 am

The problem is that the Nazis are/were both:
1) the most recent and common knowledge example of a society that trended rapidly and dangerously into authoritarianism.
2) were using this authoritarianism to create a totalitarian society through eugenics. They literally thought you could not assimilate different races into one culture.

The term Nazi encompasses both of these. A means and an end.

Means = authoritarianism
Ends = totalitarianism based on eugenics

When people rightfully use the term Nazi to make point 1, people rightfully point out there is no end goal of point 2, or Absolutely no evidence this is the goal.

Make no mistake, the information authorities controlled by oligarchs have been trying to make a totalitarian society since the French revolution. But it's not being done through eugenics, because they are smart enough to know any ethnicity can be conditioned the same way as any other according to a common environment.

Which will be corporate culture. This is why a black business man, a white business man, an Asian business woman, an Arab business woman, a gay business woman, a trans businessman, a whatever the fuck you want, are all the same. They are all the same and pretend they aren't all the same through the game of identify politics. But they really are all the same.because they are all governed culturally by corporate policy.

The oligarchs have a penchant for eugenics, but they know it's bullshit beyond horse breeding and athletics. Which is why they've been allowing new money to marry into their families etc. Which they wouldn't allow if they were still obsessed with bloodline purity.

All they want is a totalitarian society that doesn't change. Because a society that doesn't change doesn't change its power structure, and those at the top stay at the top.

Couldn't the term authoritarianism be used, and the Nazis as an example of a authoritarian ism, without calling what is happening Nazism? If not, fair enough. But the issue is just digressive at this point as nobodies really wrong. And two rights can never agree, only compromise!
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:35 am

Couldn't the term authoritarianism be used, and the Nazis as an example of a authoritarian ism, without calling what is happening Nazism? If not, fair enough. But the issue is just digressive at this point as nobodies really wrong. And two rights can never agree, only compromise!


Sure, authoritarianism can easily be used. Since this is just a virtual forum, and a word salad buffet, why does there have to be compromise?

I don't have much enthusiasm for more discussion on the Nazi thing except to point out that rarely, if ever on RI was anyone suggesting the current situation was going to lead to gas chambers and concentration camps. Well, maybe just in Australia. :yay

The characteristics of how the Nazis began is historically accurate. The practices they engaged in are particularly accurate and were pointed out in simple lists of what was happening in multiple nations across the globe. The racial objectives of the what the Nazis aimed to achieve are irrelevant to the current situation. It's what they did at the beginning which is startling similar. If anybody on RI can't see that then tough shit. If you're lacking imagination to connect the similarities any conversation except what is the flavor of the latest pitcher of Kool Aid is probably pointless.

Further discussion of historic relevancy is pointless. We should all go back to our regularly scheduled dog whistle topics that the media will knee jerk bring back anytime (daily) a new crisis is needed. Mmmmm..... the Kool Aid.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:00 am

Well I pretty much agree with you.

On another note, I've been following the numbers coming out of Israel for weeks now. But suddenly, for the past two days, the stats aren't being reported. This could be a delay or an information blackout.

I've also noticed Google News doesn't produce up to date news results coming out of the country.

Israel is also talking about a fourth jab now. Which would put them on a 4 month schedule between jabs.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:07 am

I've also noticed Google News doesn't produce up to date news results coming out of the country.


Avoid Google and only use it when necessary. There are other sources and search engines to use. Sometimes it can be interesting to compare when Google presents to what other search engines. Google is not our friend.

Don't be surprised at all when most data is blacked out. The "ruling" class, or whatever these titled asshats call themselves, don't like what people like BelSav and others have been doing with data. Suddenly the world woke up and realized that spreadsheets can be used by ordinary people to compare datasets. They don't like that. Now plesae, just shut up slave and do as you're told!

As much as we need accurate data and I find it quite useful, the real battle here is to help people realize they have become a part of the mass hysteria. It's like going to AA with a friend who isn't yet convinced they are an alcoholic.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:40 pm

What did Taiwan do that's different?

The Taiwan government:

- immediately took command of the necessary resources
- immediately banned export of PPE
- guaranteed to manufacturers the purchase of all PPE they could make
- tested people daily
- conducted unintrusive contact tracing
- imposed limited isolation
- provided quarantine facilities for infected persons
- encouraged use of facemasks, provided free.

The US did pretty much the opposite, sitting on its hands, letting the "free market" make book. In Taiwan they're playing baseball in crowded stadiums again. There was a spike after a returning pilot, infected, lied about his contacts. Today the weekly average of new cases is one per day.



- conducted unintrusive contact tracing - Seriously? You call contact tracing unintrusive? It's creepy.
- tested people daily - Were they also using the bogus PCR test? How about how many cycles in the testing were they using? It matters a lot.
- encouraged use of facemasks, provided free. - You're kidding right? We have been hit over the head with this propaganda DAILY since this all started. What are your sources that indicate the U.S. did not encourage mask wearing? Who actually went out and wasted money on masks? Once time only did I even bother to purchase any and that was only because my son didn't want me to make a scene and walk into Lowes without wearing one so we immediately purchased them near the front door. Otherwise millions of masks were given away free in the U.S. Many hundreds of millions of masks also ended up floating around oceans, parking lots and landfills. Hooray for masks!

Did any Taiwan doctors use Ivermectin or other "non-approved" by the pharma mafia policy center known and the CDC or FDA? What about general health in Taiwan, how many obese people per capita? Perhaps the populace exercises more and believes in sunshine and fresh air? Without having detailed info on alternative treatments making large brush statements doesn't mean much. Somewhat related, use Google to search for Ivermectin treatments in India. Then compare carefully to the same search results you get with DuckDuck. Google does a marvelous job at censoring.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:52 pm

Good God, man. We are NOWHERE in the same universe of 50% mortality, for chrissakes. Hell, if a quarter (25%) of the population can die from a virus and a vaccine -- with less lethality than 25% -- was available, then yes, an argument can rightly be made to mandate shots. An argument wouldn't be necessary: I'd imagine a majority of those currently hesitant wouldn't be hesitating under such circumstances.
This is all nonsense anyway as govts/corporations are mandating them NOW for a virus with over a 99.5% survival rate. For those under 70, the median IFR is 0.05%.


If bodies had ever been piled up and a lot of people dying from this I would have gotten the vaccine and been out in public with Dr. Fraudci's triple mask. What's obvious to many who are not under the spell of the Mass Formation is that there were not piles of bodies. This entire thing from DAY ONE has been overblown. It was and is a scam. People who are not seeing all the bizarre things going on have suspended their disbelief, just like after that clear blue sky on that Tuesday....
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Marionumber1 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:38 pm

Karmamatterz » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:02 am wrote:I've come to the conclusion that most, if not all of the people on RI who are vigorously complaining about the poor comparisons to the Nazis are vaccinated. They make lame comments about how they really don't support vaccine passports and lockdowns, but only after being called out for their complicity. At least we got rid of Trump! These lockdowns, forced mask wearing, indoctrination and brainwashing with Mass Formation are sorta problematic, but oh my fucking god we got rid of Trump! :yay


That "conclusion" sounds like it was made up in order to cast people who disagree with your rhetoric in an unduly negative light. No one here has expressed anything other than opposition to vaccine passports and lockdowns, and this purity test idea that you aren't sufficiently opposed to them ("complicity"?) if you don't compare them to Nazi Germany is getting ridiculous. RI posters who are on your side with everything except the specific rhetoric have repeatedly stated their position, and yet continue to receive responses accusing them of supporting policies they already made clear they oppose. Whether or not one chose to get vaccinated is orthogonal to the freedom-of-choice issue; indeed, I thought the whole freedom-of-choice argument was about respecting people's right to make their own personal medical decisions. Trump is even less relevant to this whole issue, not only because nobody here is pro-Biden and Trump's hardly even come up in this discussion, but because all of these COVID policies, including the vaccination push that he bragged about, began under him!
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:22 pm

Anyone living in an area with vaccine passport laws? They are about to come into place in Australia and am wondering what the level of compliance around the world has been.

I don't see how they can enforce them. We've had mandatory QR code check ins here for a while, and I just walk past the security guards, and they know they can't touch me. I plan on doing the same thing.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:28 am

Singapore: At Toa Payoh, a 10-minute ride-share drive from the heart of Singapore, there is a new sheriff in town.

Its name is Xavier and it’s a robot built to patrol the pavement of the busy shopping district within one of the city state’s oldest housing estates.

It’s charged with enforcing COVID-19 protocols such as mask-wearing, while deterring other bad civic habits such as smoking in banned areas and parking bikes in the wrong place. Xavier and its deputy - also called Xavier - have been zooming around the footpaths at Toa Payoh mall since Monday as part of a three-week government trial.

Armed with sensors, a dashboard and 360-degree cameras and with a direct line to a “control and command centre” staffed by real officers, their deployment is part of a multi-agency effort to assist policing with science.

The other offences the Xaviers are on the lookout for are illegal street-food vending or hawking and the riding of mobility scooters and motorcycles on footpaths.

For shopkeepers at Toa Payoh, the robots’ arrival has been a curiosity as much as anything. Nobody wanted to give their names for interviews even though the Xaviers weren’t in sight at the time. But locals reported the pair had not bothered many as they zipped back and forth. In fact, the robots had more cameras on them with locals taking videos on their phones.
. . .

Responding to suggestions that the mass surveillance represented an incursion on privacy, he told parliament “most people want to live in an environment which is safe and secure”.

Singapore can claim to be that, with only Copenhagen and Toronto ahead of it on the Economist Intelligence Unit’s latest safe cities list.

“The deployment of ground robots will help to augment our surveillance and enforcement resources,” said Lily Ling, regional director of the Singapore Food Agency, one of the government departments behind the robot patrols.


https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/ex ... 58q1c.html

RoboCop!
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:18 am

drstrangelove » 09 Sep 2021 02:22 wrote:Anyone living in an area with vaccine passport laws? They are about to come into place in Australia and am wondering what the level of compliance around the world has been.

I don't see how they can enforce them. We've had mandatory QR code check ins here for a while, and I just walk past the security guards, and they know they can't touch me. I plan on doing the same thing.


The level of compliance in San Francisco has been 100% as far as I can discern. And it's fucking scary as fuck.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:33 am

Reporting in Israel was halted due to Jewish holiday. They are reporting now:

"20,000 new COVID cases diagnosed over Rosh Hashanah; 55 deaths"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/some-2000 ... h-holiday/

I think that is over two days.

I'm also pretty sure they no longer count double vaxxed people with expired passports as vaccinated. Which means they can exclude people who are double vaxxed and in hospital from covid from the stats, and lump those people into the unvaxxed stats.
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