Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:34 am

Meanwhile, in Idaho...

Idaho hospitals begin rationing health care amid COVID surge

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-public-health-coronavirus-pandemic-idaho-db21f9a14254996144e78aafb1518259

BOISE, Idaho (AP) — Idaho public health leaders announced Tuesday that they activated “crisis standards of care” allowing health care rationing for the state’s northern hospitals because there are more coronavirus patients than the institutions can handle.

The Idaho Department of Health and Welfare quietly enacted the move Monday and publicly announced it in a statement Tuesday morning — warning residents that they may not get the care they would normally expect if they need to be hospitalized.

The move came as the state’s confirmed coronavirus cases skyrocketed in recent weeks. Idaho has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the U.S.

The state health agency cited “a severe shortage of staffing and available beds in the northern area of the state caused by a massive increase in patients with COVID-19 who require hospitalization.”

The designation includes 10 hospitals and healthcare systems in the Idaho panhandle and in north-central Idaho. The agency said its goal is to extend care to as many patients as possible and to save as many lives as possible.

The move allows hospitals to allot scarce resources like intensive care unit rooms to patients most likely to survive and make other dramatic changes to the way they treat patients. Other patients will still receive care, but they may be placed in hospital classrooms or conference rooms rather than traditional hospital rooms or go without some life-saving medical equipment.

At Kootenai Health — the largest hospital in northern Idaho — some patients are waiting for long periods for beds to open up in the full intensive care unit, said Dr. Robert Scoggins, the chief of staff. Inside the ICU, one critical care nurse might be supervising up to six patients with the help of two other non-critical care nurses. That’s a big departure from the usual one ICU nurse for one ICU patient ratio, he said.

On Monday, the Coeur d’Alene hospital started moving some coronavirus patients into its nearby conference center. A large classroom in the center was converted into a COVID-19 ward, with temporary dividers separating the beds. Some emergency room patients are being treated in a converted portion of the emergency room lobby, and the hospital’s entire third floor has also been designated for coronavirus patients.

Urgent and elective surgeries are on hold, Scoggins said, and Kootenai Health is struggling to accept any of the high-level trauma patients that would normally be transferred from the smaller hospitals in the region.

Other states are preparing to take similar measures if needed. Hawaii Gov. David Ige quietly signed an order last week releasing hospitals and health care workers from liability if they have to ration health care.

The unfolding crush of patients to Idaho hospitals has been anticipated with dread by the state’s heath care providers. Medical experts have said that Idaho could have as many as 30,000 new coronavirus cases a week by mid-September if the current rate of infections lasts.

“Crisis standards of care is a last resort. It means we have exhausted our resources to the point that our healthcare systems are unable to provide the treatment and care we expect,
” Idaho Department of Health and Welfare Director Dave Jeppesen said in a statement.

He added: “This is a decision I was fervently hoping to avoid. The best tools we have to turn this around is for more people to get vaccinated and to wear masks indoors and in outdoor crowded public places. Please choose to get vaccinated as soon as possible – it is your very best protection against being hospitalized from COVID-19.”

The designation will remain in effect until there are enough resources — including staffing, hospital beds and equipment or a drop in the number of patients — to provide normal levels of treatment to all.

More than 500 people were hospitalized statewide with COVID-19 on Sept. 1 and more than a third of them were in intensive care unit beds.

Idaho’s hospitals have struggled to fill empty nursing, housekeeping and other health care positions, in part because some staffers have left because they are burned out by the strain of the pandemic and because others have been quarantined because they were exposed to COVID-19.

Late last month, Little called in 220 medical workers available through federal programs and mobilized 150 Idaho National Guard soldiers to help hospitals cope with the surge.

Two hundred of the federal workers are medical and administrative staffers available through a contract with the U.S. General Services Administration. The U.S. Department of Defense agreed to send a 20-person medical response team to northern Idaho. The Idaho National Guard soldiers will help with logistical support such as screenings and lab work.

On Tuesday, the governor called the move to limit care “an unprecedented and unwanted point in the history of our state” and urged residents to get vaccinated against coronavirus.

Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that full vaccination with any of the currently available coronavirus vaccines dramatically reduces the risk of requiring hospitalization for a coronavirus infection.

“More Idahoans need to choose to receive the vaccine so we can minimize the spread of the disease and reduce the number of COVID-19 hospitalizations, many of which involve younger Idahoans and are preventable with safe and effective vaccines,” said Little, who is a Republican.

When the pandemic first came to Idaho at the start of 2020, Little ordered a partial shutdown of the state — ordering some businesses to temporarily close or shift to take-out style services, banning some large gatherings and asking residents to stay home as much as possible.

The move was aimed at ensuring that hospitals wouldn’t become overwhelmed by patients. Idaho was on the verge of enacting crisis standards of care during a major coronavirus surge last winter, but narrowly avoided doing so — making this the first time the state has taken the drastic measure.

Little reopened the state in stages over a period of several months and has not reimposed restrictions limiting gatherings. Businesses are mostly operating as normal.

The state’s crisis guidelines are complex, and give hospitals a legal and ethical template to use while rationing care.

Under the guidelines, patients are given priority scores based on a number of factors that impact their likelihood of surviving a health crisis.

Those deemed in most in need of care and most likely to benefit from it are put on priority lists for scarce resources like ICU beds.

Others in dire need but with lower chances of surviving will be given “comfort care” to help keep them pain-free whether they succumb to their illnesses or recover.

Other patients with serious but not life-threatening medical problems will face delays in receiving care until resources are available.

“I hope that your takeaway from this is that the vaccines work. They are the best tool by far that we have,” to keep people from getting seriously sick from the coronavirus, said Jeppesen, the state health department director.

The demand on hospitals is likely to increase in coming weeks as case numbers continue to climb, Jeppesen said, so everyone should take steps to avoid needing any emergency care if possible by wearing seatbelts, taking medication as prescribed and reconsidering activities like riding bikes that can lead to accidents.

“Just be a little more careful,” he said.


Similar stories in Missouri, Florida, Alabama, etc.

Never in my lifetime have I seen hospitals in multiple states taxed to the limits of available beds and staffing capacity for such extended periods of time. Some small part of me is starting to think that maybe it's a little worse than the flu.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Harvey » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:16 am

Have you personally verified every 'fact' in the report, because it reads exactly like all the fear porn we've been subject to for the last eighteen months, beginning with all those completely truthful videos of Chinese Covid victims keeling over in the streets. And remember all those videos of fumigation trucks spraying entire city blocks? Perhaps this report comes from the same place.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:37 am

I had COVID just a few weeks ago. It started with diarrhea and then I developed a low grade fever. I spent 5-1/2 hours in the ER and there were no excessive crowds. The doctor did pressure me to be admitted even though my oxygen saturation was around 90%. I declined the offer. They did the COVID test and many diagnostic tests to check for lung problems, blood clots, etc. I was given prescriptions for my primary symptoms. I did take an oxygen generator home, because I was breathing hard and getting out of breath easily. I ditched the machine after a few days though as I understand one can become dependent on it. I couldn't eat for a week and lost 10 lbs. I was craving liquids, so I certainly didn't become dehydrated. I was so hungry that all I could think about was food and looking forward to the day when I could eat.Of course, because of the meds I had to force down something. I suppose due to all my liquid intake, I was up in the night several times and was unable to go back to sleep, so most nights I was only sleeping 3 to 4 hours and would get up and hang out in my bedroom until daylight. I deliberately avoided naps, although I caught myself dozing off while watching YT quite a few times.

When I was finally able to eat, I could eat anything and I wanted everything. Of course, then I became stronger but that has taken longer than, say, when I had the flu. I was sick with COVID for 10 days. I got retested last weekend and I'm COVID free. I got it from my son and daughter-in-law whose cases lasted mere days and consisted of nothing more than loss of taste and smell; didn't really slow them down much at all and the same for their 15 yr old adopted son. Some coughing and sniffles, lack of taste and smell, and that's about it. They are all fine now.

I am healthy and have no underlying issues that I'm aware of, so I presume I had a standard case, so, unless there are a lot of folks out there that already have serious issues, I can't see the over crowded ER's. Of course, if they try and admit everyone who walks into the ER, then I can see where the hospital would be over capacity in no no time.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:44 am

Have you personally verified every 'fact' in the report, because it reads exactly like all the fear porn we've been subject to for the last eighteen months, beginning with all those completely truthful videos of Chinese Covid victims keeling over in the streets. And remember all those videos of fumigation trucks spraying entire city blocks? Perhaps this report comes from the same place.


No, I have not personally verified every fact in this report, just as you and no other poster on this board has not personally verified every "fact" cited in the things you share. What a ridiculous question and standard to suddenly impose. I have no idea what you're talking about with fumigation videos, but I do remember that time the President mildly suggested that ingesting bleach was an idea worth exploring.

Have you personally verified any fact that would show these reports of overladen hospitals to be untrue?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:12 am

Pele - where do you live, generally speaking?
You say there were no "excessive crowds," but what was the occupancy rate of the facility? What are their staffing levels? Do you know, or are you just saying you didn't have to wait through a big crowd to get into the ER? How many people like you are showing up at ERs but ultimately recovering at home in order to free up hospital resources? These are all relevant questions, I think, whatever the answers are.

I am healthy and have no underlying issues that I'm aware of, so I presume I had a standard case, so, unless there are a lot of folks out there that already have serious issues, I can't see the over crowded ER's. Of course, if they try and admit everyone who walks into the ER, then I can see where the hospital would be over capacity in no no time


I do however have to take issue with this bit because 1) People keep harping on "it's only bad for people with pre-existing conditions" as if pre-existing conditions are rare. A very large percentage of Americans have pre-existing conditions of one sort or another - overweight, diabetes, generally old, etc.

And 2) as is often pointed out by those who believe this is a 'scamdemic,' the USA has a for-profit healthcare model, despite the existence of many organizations in the technical "non-profit" sector. I find it hard to logic out why they would be admitting large numbers of people who don't need care, i.e. everyone who walks into the ER, when many of them are likely without insurance or other means to pay. Despite the oft-repeated lie that hospitals don't deny care in the USA even to the poorest of folks, I know firsthand that they do. And even when they provide care to someone who is uninsured and unlikely to pay, they are still going to bill them for it, send it to collections when not paid, and ultimately see the debt discharged for pennies on the dollar if it can be paid at all.

I find it really hard to believe in a conspiracy that involves our nation's for-profit medical providers taking on tons of accounts payable that will never be collected just to make it look like ICU beds are low in supply because I find it hard to see how they make their profit that way. I'm not saying it's not possible. I can imagine scenarios. But unless given evidence that's what's going on, I am gonna go with Occam's razor on this and say that our hospitals are still trying to make money, so they don't really like canceling all their for-profit elective procedures to treat people who are relying on either unproven medications or God to protect them. Which means they are probably not BSing when they say beds are full and they are canceling surgeries and turning people away (some of whom are dying from entirely treatable causes).
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:21 am

drstrangelove » 03 Sep 2021 13:17 wrote:It isn't a social credit system. It is a new set of powers to self issue warrants to hack peoples computers and delete, add, or modify data on them. This includes social media accounts, but is broader.

The social credit system would be better, in that at least people would have the choice to post what they like in exchange for losing social credit. This law means the feds can hack your computer without a judge signed warrant, put whatever they like on it, and then bring charges against you for who knows what.

I would prefer to have poor social credit than to be labelled a peadophile.


The warrant can come from someone on the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. They are government appointed functionaries.

This legislation theoretically violates the principle of separation of powers between the judiciary and the executive. It used to be a fundamental democratic principle.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:29 am

DrEvil » 03 Sep 2021 05:28 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:46 am wrote:
DrEvil » 29 Aug 2021 22:24 wrote:
stickdog99 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:48 am wrote:
Elvis » 28 Aug 2021 22:06 wrote:
Has COVID-19 so scarred you that you now actually welcome the full on DARPA dystopia of total biosecurity awareness just to give yourself a potential further shred of talismanic statistical protection against a bad case of the fucking flu?


No. I'm just surprised COVID-19 has so scarred anyone that they'd compare mitigation measures with the Nazi's systematic extermination of Jews.


Yeah, those "common sense" COVID-18 "mitigation measures" that you love so much have nothing whatsoever to do with your wildly outsized fear of COVID-19. No, it is I who must be scarred for not welcoming your desired future in which all admission to all public places requires the correct Big Tech, Big Pharma, Big Brother QR Code approval.

You know, "mitigation measures."


And once again you confuse criticism of the Nazi comparison with agreement with all the mitigation measures.

If the way you present your message immediately pisses off a large percentage of people you're doing it wrong, unless your goal is to push people away.

How often do you see campaigners, for any cause except Holocaust remembrance, use the yellow star? The answer is never, because it's stupid and offensive, and everyone realizes that it's counterproductive. Doesn't matter how good your cause is, people will roll their eyes and say Christ, what an asshole.


I post on an Aussie footy forum with a swear filter that changes the word "cunt" to the word "campaigner". Its now programmed into my brain to read campaigner as meaning something else entirely.


If it's on a football forum wouldn't it be better to replace it with "manager"? Less chance of the message getting distorted. :)

Reminds me of Ars Technica in the Before Times when Trump had just won the election. Any mention of "Crooked Hillary" or "Killary" would be replaced with something like: "I'm still obsessing over the losing candidate for no apparent reason".


Its more coaches than managers. But that is changing.

Its funny because the forum is huge and very influential. And Australian footy is a pretty small thing, only really a part of the bottom half andf the nw quarter of the country. So anyway ideas there end up in the footy media quickly. Tough old veteran players are referred to as tough old campaigners on national tv.

There are lots of those little word filters like the AT ones you mentioned.

First saw that in a Robert Anton Wilson book actually. He replaced all sorts of swaear words and words referring to genitals and sex acts. Interesting exercise for lots of reasons.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:42 am

DrEvil » 06 Sep 2021 07:15 wrote:
thrulookingglass » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:08 pm wrote:"So lockdown laws are unjustifiable" merely opinion. Liberties are assumed not granted. I don't know what country you live in but here in America a minor inconvenience by ending public seating at restaurants, bars, less gatherings and sporting events were the incredible infringement on our feigned "liberties". Not warrantless wire taps, not an end to habeas corpus for "terror suspects", not no knock warrants, and not the use of torture as a means of reprisal that suspended our "liberties" but masks, vaccines and a shamefully perfidious president who fiddled while the world burnt. There are responsibilities here and they get more and more significant when we IGNORE them! WE SPREAD THIS FIRE OF EVIL UPON ONE ANOTHER! Slough off obligations to one another has left this world putrefied! And while you look to poke holes in other person's scientific investigations the world smolders just the same. The rise of the (brutal) nation-states as a force to spoil the souls of men with dreams of outlandish trinkets and perverse worship of violent rule is the grave we dig deeper every day. THEY'RE SPORTS TEAMS YOU FOOLS! Don the jersey of your favorite country. The virus of hatred and damnation towards our fellow human beings has NOT been addressed but prospers more and more each day!

There ARE masks that work but capitalist commerce is unwilling to produce them without PROFIT! The obscenity of money worship meanders on. And the masses can't have their imagined "inalienable rights" that slave owners spilled on parchment that exist only in their minds infringed upon. Take to the streets with rifles while the government reads every correspondence you send!

Only love heals. Compassion. Forbearance. Humility.

How long shall we steer this ship into a merciless storm and blame the raging waves we arrogantly plowed into for destroying our riggings?

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You forgot one: the new abortion law in Texas (plus the other six states who think it's awesome and wants to replicate it). Bounties for snitching on pregnant women (and anyone who helps them) if they get an abortion after week six, with no exceptions for rape or incest, approved by the god damn supreme court, and not a peep from anyone here. I guess half the population of Texas losing their bodily autonomy is no big deal compared to the horror of having to wear a piece of cloth.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if there was a $10000 payout for snitching on the unvaccinated.


SLAD, Willow and a few others would have been screaming about that if they were still around.

Yay. Texass. Freedumb.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:55 am

Belligerent Savant » 03 Sep 2021 22:46 wrote:.

This is a detailed/lengthy deep dive, mostly in layman's terms. I will only share a few excerpts here but worth reading in full at source.

Mutations circulating among the healthy are, by definition, less dangerous since they did not make their hosts sick enough to confine them to bedrest. That's precisely the variant you want to spread. Mutations circulating among the bedridden are much more likely to be dangerous, which is why their host is stuck in bed with a fever and not out dining with friends.



JFC

I got to that and couldn't read any more.

Did you bold it to highlight how wrong it is?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Harvey » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:55 am

mentalgongfu2 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:44 pm wrote:
Have you personally verified every 'fact' in the report, because it reads exactly like all the fear porn we've been subject to for the last eighteen months, beginning with all those completely truthful videos of Chinese Covid victims keeling over in the streets. And remember all those videos of fumigation trucks spraying entire city blocks? Perhaps this report comes from the same place.


No, I have not personally verified every fact in this report, just as you and no other poster on this board has not personally verified every "fact" cited in the things you share.


Quite. My point exactly: what's the difference?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:35 am

mentalgongfu2 » 09 Sep 2021 09:34 wrote:Meanwhile, in Hawaii...

Other states are preparing to take similar measures if needed. Hawaii Gov. David Ige quietly signed an order last week releasing hospitals and health care workers from liability if they have to ration health care.


And concerning the severe nurse shortage in Idaho that has led to the dire lack of care:

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/healt ... 11a52971b3

Hundreds protest employer vaccine requirements at Idaho Statehouse

Those attending the rally say they believe private healthcare employers' decision to require workers to get vaccinated or lose their job amounts to discrimination.

BOISE, Idaho — Several hundred people gathered in front of the Idaho Capitol Building Thursday morning as part of a protest against private healthcare companies that say they will require their employees to get a COVID-19 vaccination.

Primary Health, Saint Alphonsus Health System, and St. Luke’s Health System all announced last week that their employees have been given a deadline to either get vaccinated against the infectious respiratory illness that has killed 2,165 Idahoans and sickened tens of thousands more, or face termination.

hose who oppose the requirement, like the crowd that gathered at the Statehouse Thursday, say it is not fair to tie their choices about their own health to their employment.

Lt. Gov. Janice McGeachin, who spoke ahead of the rally, said she thought that telling people to get vaccinated or find another job amounted to "discrimination" that "flies in the face of principles of liberty and justice."

"The issue here today is not the effectiveness of the vaccine," she said. "The issue at hand is a matter of individual liberty and freedom. Those who have made the personal medical choice not to take the vaccine deserve to have their decisions respected."

Crowd is picking up as several speakers have taken to the podium.
One speaker compared their courage to “stand up” to that of Rosa Parks. https://t.co/vBbgiGFsO1 pic.twitter.com/XKtP6hiVWZ

— Andrew Baertlein (@AndrewBaertlein) July 15, 2021
Kelsey Baker, a registered nurse, said Idaho is already grappling with a staff shortage that will be exacerbated if nurses like her lose their jobs - issues that will create longer waits and worse outcomes for sick patients.

Baker estimated that 30% of RNs and LPNs across the state don't want to get vaccinated and face losing their jobs as a result.

"Imagine what the nursing-patient ratios will look like then," she said. "And it is going to impact our rural areas even more than the Treasure Valley, because rural areas already suffer a huge healthcare access gap. Imagine if those hospitals in rural areas fail. Imagine if their clinics shut their doors."


Attendees at the rally listened to speakers and music and waved signs with slogans like "My Body My Choice," "Legalize Freedom," and "Essential to Expendable."

Dr. Samuel Petersen, a dentist in Eagle, accused medical providers of "playing God" and compared making someone get vaccinated without their consent to rape.

"It was only a year ago when all the nurses and doctors were celebrated for being the first responders in this crisis," he told the crowd. "Are we now expected to abandon them after they spent the last year on the front lines? Does their perspective, their experience, their truth matter? Or was the support just public posturing and empty virtue signaling?"

Here is the crowd at the Statehouse in #Boise for a rally against medial providers in the area that are requiring employees to be vaccinated to maintain their employment pic.twitter.com/RT6LcHYX8J

— Joe Parris (@KTVBJoe) July 15, 2021
Teresa Blair, a certified nurse-midwife who said she is a contract employee at St. Luke's, said she was "very disappointed" at the hospital's decision. She added that she doesn't think she should be forced to get vaccinated for COVID-19.

"I don't feel like I need a vaccine," she said. "I have natural immunities."

Blair said she fears losing her livelihood and is unsure what she will do when St. Luke's September deadline to prove she is vaccinated or get a job elsewhere rolls aroud. She hopes to qualify for a religious exemption, citing her membership in the LDS faith.

It is legal for Idaho healthcare providers and other private employers to require their workers to get a vaccine or lose their job because Idaho is an at-will employment state, meaning an employer can terminate an employee for any reason, with the exception of their sex, gender, race, religion, national origin, age or disability.

Blair said she was determined to attend the rally as a way to speak out against a requirement she feels infringes on her rights.

"I think there's a lot of energy here, and there is a lot of reasonable thinking," she said of the gathering. "I've heard over and over again that we are not against the vaccine, we're against the mandate."
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:42 am

So to summarize.

Idaho healthcare "leaders" created a severe nursing shortage by mandating vaccination even among nurses who had long ago acquired natural immunity.

Now the national media turns the lack of nurses in Idaho into some sort of morality play about how awesome vaccination is and how terrible those who are not yet vaccinated are, even though Hawaii is facing the same shortages with 74.9% of residents at least partially vaccinated.

All the while, no state is disclosing the hospitalization and death rates of the fully vaccinated and partially vaccinated broken out by vaccine.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:50 am

Pele'sDaughter » 09 Sep 2021 11:37 wrote:I had COVID just a few weeks ago. It started with diarrhea and then I developed a low grade fever. I spent 5-1/2 hours in the ER and there were no excessive crowds. The doctor did pressure me to be admitted even though my oxygen saturation was around 90%. I declined the offer. They did the COVID test and many diagnostic tests to check for lung problems, blood clots, etc. I was given prescriptions for my primary symptoms. I did take an oxygen generator home, because I was breathing hard and getting out of breath easily. I ditched the machine after a few days though as I understand one can become dependent on it. I couldn't eat for a week and lost 10 lbs. I was craving liquids, so I certainly didn't become dehydrated. I was so hungry that all I could think about was food and looking forward to the day when I could eat.Of course, because of the meds I had to force down something. I suppose due to all my liquid intake, I was up in the night several times and was unable to go back to sleep, so most nights I was only sleeping 3 to 4 hours and would get up and hang out in my bedroom until daylight. I deliberately avoided naps, although I caught myself dozing off while watching YT quite a few times.

When I was finally able to eat, I could eat anything and I wanted everything. Of course, then I became stronger but that has taken longer than, say, when I had the flu. I was sick with COVID for 10 days. I got retested last weekend and I'm COVID free. I got it from my son and daughter-in-law whose cases lasted mere days and consisted of nothing more than loss of taste and smell; didn't really slow them down much at all and the same for their 15 yr old adopted son. Some coughing and sniffles, lack of taste and smell, and that's about it. They are all fine now.

I am healthy and have no underlying issues that I'm aware of, so I presume I had a standard case, so, unless there are a lot of folks out there that already have serious issues, I can't see the over crowded ER's. Of course, if they try and admit everyone who walks into the ER, then I can see where the hospital would be over capacity in no no time.


Especially if they are under different orders concerning admittance procedures for the vaccinated (who are assumed to have magic vaccination protection against Delta) versus the unvaccinated (who, by definition, deserve to go bankrupt due to hospital fees that all major insurers are no longer waiving).
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby streeb » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:11 pm

drstrangelove » 09 Sep 2021 02:22 wrote:
Anyone living in an area with vaccine passport laws? They are about to come into place in Australia and am wondering what the level of compliance around the world has been.

I don't see how they can enforce them. We've had mandatory QR code check ins here for a while, and I just walk past the security guards, and they know they can't touch me. I plan on doing the same thing.


stickdog99 wrote:
The level of compliance in San Francisco has been 100% as far as I can discern. And it's fucking scary as fuck.


Starting next week, BC's unvaccinated will be disallowed from non-essential services. There are no exemptions, medical or otherwise. I gather this is supposed to end on January 31, but I wouldn't bet on it. This has cost me two shows, one at home, the other on the mainland, where I've made music with the same people for 20 years. Indeed, along with the frontman, I'm the longest-standing member of the band. I predicted this outcome when the show was booked in June. The issue was eventually raised some weeks later, but prior to the public health order announcement. I was told that others on the bill "would be uncomfortable with my presence." (Others sharing the stage, or others in my own band? I dared not ask.)

So I expect, as with Stickdog's experiences, that compliance will be very high. But it's hard to really know. Media and social media present a distorted view, overwhelmingly that people are clamouring for these measures. Within my friend group, some absconded months ago, so I'm pretty clear on what they think, lol. Others don't want to talk about any of this, it's a dirty topic. Those who do -- with exceptions that I can count on one hand -- are indifferent to the dangers of vaccine passports and digital IDs, seem only faintly uncomfortable with escalating government abuse, and fail to see the larger picture of coordinated attack on *western democracy*, such as it is, national sovereignty, or even bodily autonomy. I cherish them all, especially the few who are willing to engage, but in the end we resign to being baffled by one another. I also must battle my own insurgent sense of disgust and disappointment, or the inclination to turn evangelical after the second beer.

Sorry that I haven't really answered your question, drstranglove. I think I just needed to unload. The dogs have heard all this a zillion times.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:12 pm

mentalgongfu2 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:12 am wrote:Pele - where do you live, generally speaking?
You say there were no "excessive crowds," but what was the occupancy rate of the facility? What are their staffing levels? Do you know, or are you just saying you didn't have to wait through a big crowd to get into the ER? How many people like you are showing up at ERs but ultimately recovering at home in order to free up hospital resources? These are all relevant questions, I think, whatever the answers are.

I am healthy and have no underlying issues that I'm aware of, so I presume I had a standard case, so, unless there are a lot of folks out there that already have serious issues, I can't see the over crowded ER's. Of course, if they try and admit everyone who walks into the ER, then I can see where the hospital would be over capacity in no no time


I do however have to take issue with this bit because 1) People keep harping on "it's only bad for people with pre-existing conditions" as if pre-existing conditions are rare. A very large percentage of Americans have pre-existing conditions of one sort or another - overweight, diabetes, generally old, etc.

And 2) as is often pointed out by those who believe this is a 'scamdemic,' the USA has a for-profit healthcare model, despite the existence of many organizations in the technical "non-profit" sector. I find it hard to logic out why they would be admitting large numbers of people who don't need care, i.e. everyone who walks into the ER, when many of them are likely without insurance or other means to pay. Despite the oft-repeated lie that hospitals don't deny care in the USA even to the poorest of folks, I know firsthand that they do. And even when they provide care to someone who is uninsured and unlikely to pay, they are still going to bill them for it, send it to collections when not paid, and ultimately see the debt discharged for pennies on the dollar if it can be paid at all.

I find it really hard to believe in a conspiracy that involves our nation's for-profit medical providers taking on tons of accounts payable that will never be collected just to make it look like ICU beds are low in supply because I find it hard to see how they make their profit that way. I'm not saying it's not possible. I can imagine scenarios. But unless given evidence that's what's going on, I am gonna go with Occam's razor on this and say that our hospitals are still trying to make money, so they don't really like canceling all their for-profit elective procedures to treat people who are relying on either unproven medications or God to protect them. Which means they are probably not BSing when they say beds are full and they are canceling surgeries and turning people away (some of whom are dying from entirely treatable causes).


I'm in Texas. The ER I visited is in Ellis County near the county seat. I'm just giving my observations here as I have not studied the numbers for anything I mentioned. The waiting room was far from full and staff was not having any trouble keeping up. I believe this was on a Tuesday, although I don't know if that matters. I'm a Medicare patient, so I did not have to pay. Obviously, they might be wanting to admit me, because they'll be paid for sure. I have no idea, but the doctor kept mentioning that I was leaving against his orders to the point that I got tired of it as I had already from the first mention told him I understood I was going against his advice.

Apparently, from this article, some Texas counties are being enriched by billing private insurance for the vaccine.
https://www.nbcdfw.com/investigations/t ... s/2737185/

I don't doubt for one minute that every possible dollar will be wrung from this pandemic, whether justified or not.
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant
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