Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

[drstrangelove]

neither Trump nor Biden made/make any decisions. They ratify various dictates handed to them by information authorities. Biden is literally senile. Not sure how he can be held to account since he doesn't even know what's going on.

[Karmamatterz]

Agreed. I guess I'm expressing myself from an emotional place and not logical which you state. Regardless of Biden being senile, he and any president still has the ability to say no.

[DrEvil]

When shining a laser pointer at a wall the cat always falls for it.

See, certain things are worth roasting and calling out, but not the fucking dinosaur in the living room, head and neck smashed through the roof. Just walk around the rubble to stare at -- and chase! -- the moving red dot on the wall.

Flood the zone. Anyone recall those words from the Event 201?

The people who manage these narratives know what they are doing. Some stuff I'm sure just naturally works its way out into the stream of noise. Other noisy news bits are placed as tactics to fulfill the overall strategy. On a daily basis we see and hear more and more noise to distract people away from the fact that this is a scam and that we are all being duped. Create enough noise and it dramatically decreases the public from being able to keep up with what is really going on. It helps to keep anxiety and fear heightened. With enough fear people won't gather together and talk about organizing.

To be clear, I am 100 percent against the measures Biden announced today, for many reasons.I still think the stuff posted here claiming "scamdemic" is generally poorly-sourced bullshit from hucksters.

And for fucks sakes I'm not saying there is no Corona virus. They have been around for a long time. Just look up some older medical textbooks and you will see Corona viruses are listed as common colds.

Some coronaviruses being common colds doesn't mean every coronavirus is a common cold. MERS is a coronavirus, and it has a mortality rate of around 35%. SARS is about 11%. Obviously covid is not even close to that, but it's definitely worse than a common cold.

If by now you don't see the enormity of this scam you likely never will. I feel sorry for people who are still under the spell of the mass hysteria. I do recognize it's not easy to differentiate fact from fiction in situations like this. After all, there is no historic reference for us to cognitively associate to for peace of mind.

So how do you know you've got the facts straight? Wouldn't you be just a susceptible to getting it wrong as anyone else?

[stickdog99]

So Joe Biden just threatened to get me fired if I don't immediately submit to getting my first two doses of a shitty, leaky, dangerous mRNA "vaccine" that does not even protect me (and certainly not anyone else) against the now dominant Delta variant.

I am wondering what everyone here thinks about this. Do you all have Joe Biden's back on this? You know, because he is so obviously violating my right to informed consent for my own good?

Or maybe we should consider a hypothetical situation in which Joe Biden would be in right? Or talk about a heinous Texas law instead? Or maybe we should all discuss just how much this is in no way like any other totalitarian decree in human history?

Biden's executive overreach should be struck down by the courts immediately, but if it it isn't (since he is building on decades of similar executive order overreach), it's a useful reminder to point out that you could instead just face a weekly covid test.

Is that also a horribly concerning precedent to set? Yes, it is.

But as of today, he is threatening to have you fired if you aren't vaccinated AND refuse to submit to a regular covid test. You probably consider that splitting hairs, but I have and always will believe the devil is in the details. To be clear, I am 100 percent against the measures Biden announced today, for many reasons.I still think the stuff posted here claiming "scamdemic" is generally poorly-sourced bullshit from hucksters.

I think many of the people on this thread are guilty of promoting bullshit. But I do agree this executive order is horrible. It won't help and will probably make everything worse.

As far as the Nazi comparison you keep harping on, I don't get why you're so insistent on not-so-subtly bringing it up even after Jack's message a few pages back. There's a big difference between an entire religious, cultural and ethnic group being forced to wear a symbol for identification and ultimate murder and people who voluntarily don that symbol so they can pretend their current real or perceived oppression is the same. It's horribly insulting, and y'all should let it go for that reason alone and find another way to promote the victim complex you're so insistent on maintaining.

Here's the thing. I work from home over a computer. I already go nowhere without a mask and am already not allowed to enter any building that serves food or beverages. If I come down with any symptoms of anything (none of which I have ever had over the entire course of the last 18 months, much to detriment of my own immune system), I will dutifully quarantine myself for the full duration of my illness plus another week to boot.

What the fuck use is the weekly COVID-19 test that Joe Biden so thoughtfully provided me with as an option knowing that my company would never go to the trouble of implementing it? Why the fuck would my company even implement such a stupid scheme when almost its entire workforce also works from home and it so much easier for my company to do exactly what you clearly wish my company to do to me, which is to make my continued employment contingent on my vaccination status?

[stickdog99]

Thanks for engaging. And, yes, it is pointless. But, I think, not for the reasons you imply (that everyone is talking past everyone), but that we're past that point, because it's now a political/moral question and not an epidemiological one.

In some circumstances, the reason for a vaccine passport could indeed be to prevent infection spreading. And, yes, all things being equal, in this case, vaccine passports alone in this case would reduce spread somewhat. For me, making participation in society more or less conditional on submission to a particular medical intervention is a line that cannot be crossed in a liberal democracy (i.e., the line that is instead being crossed is the one that separates liberal democracy from not-liberal-democracy). Now, one could say (and I'm guessing you would too) that this is too absolutist of me.

Maybe its absolutist. My old man came to Australia from Fiji. He had to have a smallpox vaccination to return to Australia if he went home. The rest of us had to be vaccinated if we went back with him but by the time I was 5 that was done. I have a smallpox vaccination scar but my younger brother doesn't because in that five years it was considered eradicated. There are other examples too. In liberal democracies, but were they real at any point in the last 50 years.

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” - Zappa.

But in that case, we'd need to consider proportionality. This has two sides: on one side, we need to think of the severity / risk of the disease, and of the efficacy of the medical intervention in question. On the other, we need to think about the downsides to the individual of what we're asking them to do: how provably safe is the intervention? How do known risks compare with benefits, for the individual in question? How do these trade off against collective benefit, i.e. how well does the intervention reduce risks to others and/or societal burdens, e.g. to the health system? Those sort of questions are the next tier down if you're not opposed to them on principle.

Beyond that, I'd make the case that all things are not equal. There are alternatives, which are better and/or more logical. Let's put to one side the question of suppressed treatments. One doesn't even need to accept the evidence of the efficacy of these to see that suppression of that evidence is problematic. Then, there is the red flag to which I alluded: natural immunity is very clearly better for protecting the collective than are the favoured treatments, so its rejection is pretty strong evidence that this is not the purpose at all. And, even if we accept the terms you outline, then frequent testing is also far more likely to reduce spread than proof of having had the favoured medical treatment, as this allows us to exclude a far higher proportion of the infectious. Given what a huge step introducing these forms of discrimination is, one must once again ask questions not only of motives (even if you disagree with me that the above is proof of some other motivation than public health), but of proportionality.

The disease is fucked. It targets enzymes on your epithelial cells in all sorts of vital parts of your body. It s not just an upper respiratory disease. Its systemic.

Right now according to some people (nurses I know) the NSW health system is on the verge of collapse in parts of the city.

Collapse doesn't mean bodies piling up in the street (tho eventually it might.) It means the health system can't function. So people who would otherwise survive heart attacks or serious car accidents won't because in some hospitals there is no room left for them to get proper treatment. That is just what I've heard, it not from an official source or anything. And it might not come to pass but what it does mean is the informal comms networks that nurses in NSW use are passing the message that this is as full on as anything people in the effected parts of Sydney have ever seen. They don't know if their medical infrastructure will cope and if it doesn't they can't provide the care they expect to be able to. They are worried about having to choose who to treat and who to leave to die.

It might not come to that but the fact they are worried about it is bad enough really.

There have been fewer than 70,000 PCR positive cases for COVID-19 in Australia during this entire supposed pandemic! And there have been a grand total of 216 COVID-19 associated deaths in New South Wales over this entire pandemic. And this death rate has climbed right along with the vaccination rate! Still, the 7 day average for COVID-19 deaths per day has never exceeded 6 total deaths in NSW.

Furthermore, NSW's medical leaders have had well over 18 months to prepare its healthcare system for this long delayed surge. How well have they prepared if the the entire province still can't handle the level COVID-19 that the least affected cities in the USA have had to handle for during their least infected periods for the entire last 18 months?

99% of healthy people recover from COVID-19 and then have much better immunity than the current leaky vaccines (that were not even tested against the now dominant variant) provide. The level of scare mongering compared to the actual threat so far faced that has emerged from this crisis ("Bodies are not piling up in the street yet, but could be piling up in the street any day now!") is nowhere more extreme than it is in Australia. I wonder how it is that you cannot see this.

[stickdog99]

Dr Julie Ponesse, Professor of ethics.

How dare she "promote the victim complex" like this!

[stickdog99]

Chart from Scotland showing hospitalization & death status with vaccination status from 8/28 to 9/3:



Could data like this that cannot be totally suppressed explain the recent uptick in "VACCINATE NOW OR ELSE!!" urgency?

Source: https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/ ... accinated/

Official Source: https://www.docdroid.net/eIM5hIR/21-09- ... report-pdf

[Harvey]

^ I'm very happy for them to be wrong, some of my family have been 'vaccinated'. Unlike the mandate(ors) out there in the world, I did not intrude on their decisions beyond speaking my opinion, I considered their decisions to be sovereign.

Anyway I suppose we might as well hear it:

https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/modern-day-censorship/80-of-covid-deaths-in-scotland-during-august-were-people-who-had-been-vaccinated/

80% of Covid deaths in Scotland during August were people who had been vaccinated

Despite official government reports being molded to try to show otherwise, brief scrutiny of those same numbers shows that, during the entire month of August, up to 80% of the people who supposedly died from Covid-19 in Scotland had been vaccinated against the disease.

The Rio Times -
September 9, 2021

RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL – We live in strange times, and if you think the Covid-19 vaccination program is working because the authorities on TV tell you it is, then you will maybe find it disturbing that the UK is in the midst of a ‘third wave’ in the middle of summer.

Especially when you consider that in the summer of 2020 Covid deaths were reduced to zero despite no vaccines being available.

But the bizarre does not end there, if looking at the latest Covid-19 Statistical Report published by Public Health Scotland (PHS) on September 8, 2021, new questions must be raised.

The report provides a range of data on testing, quarantine, vaccinations, cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, but it doesn’t get very interesting until you read Table 15, which covers the number of Covid-positive cases per week and vaccination status.

CASES

Most of the confirmed cases are now among the vaccinated population. In the most recent week, August 28-September 3, 2021, the report shows that there were 20,744 confirmed cases among the unvaccinated population, who are more likely to be tested for the simple reason that they have not been vaccinated.

But it also shows that there were 5,508 confirmed cases among the partially vaccinated population and 16,810 cases among the fully vaccinated population, two populations that are less likely to get tested because they are vaccinated.

This means that between August 28 and September 3 there were 22,318 cases among the vaccinated population, almost 2,000 more than the unvaccinated population.

The same can also be said for the week from August 21 to August 27, when there were 15,647 cases among the unvaccinated population and 22,234 cases among the vaccinated population, and the same can also be said for the previous two weeks.

In fact, the data show that between August 7, 2021, and September 3, 2021, there were 47,580 cases among the unvaccinated population, 21,020 cases among the partially vaccinated population, and 41,748 cases among the fully vaccinated population.

This means that there were 15,188 more cases among the vaccinated population.

HOSPITALIZATIONS

According to Table 16 of the report, between August 28, 2021, and September 3, 2021, there were 36 Covid-19-related hospital admissions among the unvaccinated 60+ population, while there were 7 admissions in the partially vaccinated population.

However, there were a large number of admissions among the fully vaccinated 60+ population (299), and the same pattern can be observed in the previous weeks up to August 7, 2021.

In total, during the week of August 28-September 3, 2021, there were 271 hospitalizations among the entire unvaccinated population, but 423 hospitalizations among the fully vaccinated population. If we base these hospitalizations occurring of the confirmed cases of the previous weeks, we can calculate the hospitalization case rate.

In the week beginning August 21, there were 15,047 confirmed cases among the unvaccinated population. Therefore, based on the unvaccinated hospitalization figures of 271 in the week beginning August 28, the case hospitalization rate is 1.7%.

However, when we perform the same calculation for hospitalizations of fully vaccinated persons (423) and cases (14,519) we can see that the case-hospitalization rate is 2.9%.

This shows that, statistically, Covid-19 injections are increasing the risk of hospitalization when exposed to Covid-19 by 70%, rather than reducing the risk by 95% as claimed by vaccine manufacturers and authorities.

DEATHS

Table 17 of the Public Health Scotland report shows the number of deaths that have occurred and the vaccination status of the deceased. However, PHS has been manipulative in the way it has presented the number of deaths.

Because instead of presenting them week by week as they have done with the number of cases and hospitalizations, they have changed the logic and included deaths since December 29.

This means that they are including deaths from the height of the supposed second wave of Covid-19, where only 9% of the population had received a dose and only 0.1% of the entire population was fully vaccinated.

Because of that, PHS can give the impression that most Covid-19 deaths occur among the unvaccinated population:

The table above is taken from the report published by Public Health Scotland on August 18, 2021, and shows Covid deaths by vaccination status between December 29, 2020, and August 5, 2021. As you can see, anyone reading the report might get the impression that vaccines are doing a fantastic job of preventing Covid-19 deaths.

But fast forward to the most recent report and you will find in Table 17 that there have been 3,102 deaths among the unvaccinated population, 279 deaths among the partially vaccinated population, and 298 deaths among the fully vaccinated population between December 29 and August 26, 2021:

Therefore, the actual number of deaths by vaccination status between August 5 and August 26, 2021, is as follows:

Unvaccinated population – 25 deaths
Partially vaccinated population – 6 deaths
Fully vaccinated population – 92 deaths

This means that the unvaccinated population accounted for only 20% of the alleged Covid-19 deaths during the entire month of August, while the fully vaccinated population accounted for 75% of them. But if you combine the partially vaccinated deaths with the fully vaccinated deaths, you can see that during all of August 80% of the deaths occurred among the vaccinated population.

What is even more troubling about this is that the number of confirmed cases among the fully vaccinated population has increased significantly in the most recent week compared to the previous four weeks.

Therefore, the number of hospitalizations and deaths that could occur in the coming weeks is likely to be sufficient for authorities to justify another closure or more booster doses.

[stickdog99]

Just to be clear about who are and are not the victims here

[stickdog99]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/c ... cy_theory/

Conspiracy Theory

We live in such a manufactured reality, the real conspiracy is that most things still just happen randomly or by natural happenstance. There's now tons of money and people invested in analyzing data, predicting trends, and informing high-bidder bosses of their foresight. To dismiss that or naively believe otherwise is denying entire well-documented industries.

And those bosses aren't just curious. They take that information and factor it into their business plan, coordinate necessary media strategies, hedging their bets to keep grips on the wheel of humanity. We can speculate about their goals, decipher parts of it, but their sponsored theater is specifically designed to cover their asses well and keep us confused.

Oligarchs keep winning by being able to play the long game, and adapt to any changes in it they didn't already plan for. Take, for instance, Trump: as an ego-driven anomaly he makes some basic sense, but so does thinking of him as a bad TV actor who was given the part of a lifetime assisting the "grown-ups" in setting the stage for eventual courses of action.

It could well be Trump was necessary as a token caricature "low bar," to train the masses "what fascism looks like." Then today's be-vaccinated-or-death-by-capitalism style fascism can appear reasonable by false contrast, and the "get a manager!" types who fought Trump's mean-tweet version just fall in line (still full of their "us vs them" false superiority).

American politics is a confidence con, and the con is failing: too many false hopes and no legitimate changes, despite continual rhetoric of it. So providing a bombastic, belligerent target makes a milktoast corporatist appear almost competent and reasonable by comparison. And the best the 1% can do, after their train wreck clown-car primary to stifle populism.

It makes the whole Clintonian "pied piper" strategy fit, and Trump would not even have to necessarily be in the loop on it - just another useful idiot. And true to form for nearly every American presidency, whatever is done normalizes the next's utilization of the same powers (but for "good" reasons, not evil, of course). It's controlled chaos in a sandbox.

It could be that Biden is pushing for his vaccine mandates knowing that it will cause a revolutionary pushback because he can frame the enemy as a right-wing anti-science Typhoid Mary faction linked to Trumpism.... which is much more preferred to the oligarchy than the long-overdue bipartisan real revolution that would finally oust the corporate-run duopoly.

We have seen this used before - control of the narrative means taking actual movements over so inevitable zeitgeists can be redirected wherever they assist, not hurt, powers that be. And make no mistake, a great many of the people of this country across and outside of the false left/right paradigm are more than ready to rise up. They are silenced, not satiated.

Look at Bernie's crowds during both his presidential runs (when he still dared to call out the establishment and called for political revolution). Look at the BLM movement. Look at how nothing is really changing, despite over half of the country recognizing the futility of participating in a political con sports game and refusing to legitimize it any longer.

Look at folks abandoning jobs that don't pay enough to live on, switching careers from the corporate machine to self-employment, and TV desperately drawing lines between us even if they're pure imagination. There's real crisis of faith going on, for good reason, in this non-representative corrupted system. And those reasons have yet to be actually addressed.

Just like the 2008 crash never got resolved merely delayed, a growing and justified anti-establishment sentiment needs a pressure release valve or the elites in the Capitol might actually lose control over their worker drones. Obama's empty reassurances didn't cut it. Welcoming gays into the military didn't cut it. Official pronoun acceptance didn't cut it.

It's therefore in neoliberalism's interest to do their old capitalism trick of "You want a revolution? Sure - here's one already made for you!" And quashing it, even if it literally splits the nation apart, is much preferable to the scary rise of actual accountability and democracy instead of today's sanctified new-age free-range feudalism disguised as freedom.

Following this line of thought, it might also make sense that the capitol's "insurrection" was another rerouting and reframing of a non-left/right sentiment. Have horrid examples of something shine as THE representatives of it, so anyone sane and calm from the left can be simply discredited by association for daring to arrive even close to the same conclusion.

It's all about damage control and strategy. And isn't very far-fetched when one considers this is exactly the sort of thing we've been doing overseas to other nations for decades. The War on Terror's now at home, so will be fought with the tools that have been developed at three-letter agencies for strategizing what outcomes our 1% billionaire masters prefer.

Because that's what money in America gets you- it's not about collecting toys, privileges, or building up historical legacies, but about the ability to ensure control of the future. Average citizens consumed with how to get through today and tomorrow don't operate in that way, so easily can be convinced to dismiss out of hand such talk as "conspiracy theory."

But that's increasingly a faith-based excuse which requires staying blind to our objective reality. Is everything speculated here 100% accurate? I doubt it. As I said, paid partisan theater obscures the bigger picture fairly effectively. However, the majority is deep down aware there's a horrible problem here. We're just trained to point at each other - not up

[Belligerent Savant]

I’m willing to take my NATURAL COVID IMMUNITY case to the US Supreme Court

Dr. Suneel Dhand

starting at the 02:42 mark:

...this is not an anti-vaxx issue, this is an issue regarding a clinical concern and what is clinically indicated. Again, to these keyboard warriors out there, i will say this: the practice of medicine is immensely complex; it is not a social media post, it is not a hashtag, it is not a bumper sticker. It is immensely complicated. I want to touch on two basic tenets of the practice of medicine. Number one is there are a lot of nuances involved; medicine is rarely a black and white arena. There is a lot of grey that needs to be acknowledged. You cannot be absolutist in the field of medicine. And number two is any medical decision out there, whether it's a vaccine or any therapeutic, simply comes down to a benefit versus risk decision. If the benefits outweigh the risks, you go ahead; If the risks outweigh the benefits, you don't go ahead. And if there's any doubt about that you typically don't go ahead either.
Repeated petitions that i have been making have been completely ignored by the authorities to recognize natural immunity, and that is despite the fact that there is a lot of evidence out there that natural immunity ...does exist and it is not to be ignored, whether it's through intellectual laziness or other things that might be at play, you cannot ignore natural immunity, and that is backed up by studies. In fact there are studies out there that indicate that it may even be better than vaccinated immunity.

[stickdog99]

https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news- ... -the-heart

Covid-19 spike protein binds to and changes cells in the heart

The spike protein found on the surface of Covid-19 virus cells (and that mRNA vaccines instruct your cells to flood your body with) causes changes to cells in the small blood vessels of the heart, according to research we funded presented at the European Society of Cardiology Congress.

Researchers from the University of Bristol have found that the spike protein (that mRNA vaccines instruct your cells to flood your body with) binds to cells called pericytes which line the small vessels of the heart. This binding triggers a cascade of changes which disrupt normal cell function, and lead to the release of chemicals that cause inflammation. This happened even when the protein was no-longer attached to the virus (as is the case with the spike protein mRNA vaccines instruct your cells to flood your body with).

There is some previous evidence to suggest that the spike protein can remain in the blood stream after the virus has gone and travel far from the site of infection (especially in the case of the spike protein mRNA vaccines instruct your cells to flood your body with). In this study, researchers only studied pericytes from the small blood vessels within the heart. However, pericytes are found within small blood vessels all over the body, including in the brain and central nervous system. This latest finding may start to help explain the effect of the virus on organs away from the site of the Covid-19 infection (and/or mRNA injection site).

Researchers took small vessel cells from the heart and exposed them to the spike protein. They found that the spike protein alone was enough to disrupt normal cell function, and lead to the release of chemicals that cause inflammation.

They then blocked the CD147 receptor and found that this prevented the spike protein from causing some of the changes to the cells. However, the inflammation continued. Now the researchers hope to find out if a drug blocking CD147 in humans can help to protect people from some of the complications arising from Covid-19.

[stickdog99]

Supposedly more than 40,000,000 Americans have gotten COVID-19 since the pandemic started compared to fewer than 4,000 total cases of the flu over the exact same time period.

Can anyone here please explain why lockdowns, masks, social distancing, etc. are more than 10,000 times more effective against one very common and very transmissible respiratory disease than another?

[Harvey]

Yes, as I speculated somewhere closer to the beginning, substitution.

[Karmamatterz]

Can anyone here please explain why lockdowns, masks, social distancing, etc. are more than 10,000 times more effective against one very common and very transmissible respiratory disease than another?

Well yes of course! It’s a grand fairytale of make believe. Would you like the version that has a Princess? Or the version with villains Henry and Klaus? The story goes on forever and in the end all the proles get fucked.